Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aramil_silverwind 03-09-04, 04:16 PM	Ok, heres the scenario: a player was constantly on my back because of how I complained that his character was too high powered. After discussions on the boards about how to deal with his high-powered characters, I decided to give him a spin at DMing, so he could learn how it was tohave difficult characters in his game. He has't even started the game yet,and already he's messing with the system too much... amoung other small things that aren't really worth mentionging right now, hes making helmets a different piece of armour that grants AC bonuses by themselves. Another one is that he's bringing back called shots and the d12 crit tables.... and he's new to the game, and won't listen to about how this is a bad idea.... Am I just over reacting, or is he really screwing the game over?
ehrin 03-09-04, 05:18 PM	In general, if you can manage to play by his rules for a game, do so. Most of the time, you can find ways within his rules to have fun, and perhaps even turn the tables on him. Critically attack a few helmets on his NPC's, for instance, and he may decide to drop some of his extra rules. The best way to change the system is from within the system.
Geethree 03-09-04, 05:31 PM	First of all, it sounds like you gave him the DM job out of pure spite. DMs should want to DM. Besides that, too bad. You gave him the reigns and he can do whatever he wants. Deal with it or don't play. You want him to learn how difficult it is to DM and it sounds like he's setting himself up to learn the hardest way. EDIT: If you have any legitimate concerns, bring them to him rationally and don't get argumentative about them. He's the DM so you have to accept his decisions.
Silverwave 03-09-04, 05:32 PM	Here's my two different opinions (yeah, it's kinda schyzophrene of me but... anyway :P). Pro : The rules aren't the only good thing to use. Some house rules (or some optional rules) are very nice. It could be very cool to modify, substract or add some rules to the game. Con : Every time you modify, add or substract a rule, you can unbalance the basic rules. If you decide to give a better bab to thieves or decide that sneak attacks multiply on a critical hit, maybe the class will be so attractive that there will be no reason to become some other classes. Every time you modify the rules, try to figure out all the possibilities that it's giving to players and if it's not too weak or too strong. TRY TO BALANCE !
Gandilas 03-09-04, 06:09 PM	Hello. My suggestion: Run with it and buy a Chain Shirt. Ask for a Helmet, Gloves of some type and Boots. If a Helmet increases the AC, so should these other items. I'll assume each item gives at least 1 AC. AC 7 with a 4 Dex is very nice and only a -1 ACP (MW, -2 if not). That gives an AC of 21 without much trouble at all. Get a Large shield for another 2 AC for a 23! Get each and every item enchanted to plus 1 and you'll have an AC of 28!!!! You can get this all done at a fairly early level and you're not even using any feats/tricks. AC 28 is VERY hard to hit with most low level monsters. edit: If you have a high dex, I'd go ahead and make an archer or a Weapon Finesse Rogue/Ranger/whatever and do a Called Shot each and every opportunity you can. High Strength, go ahead and go with Fighter/Barb/Rogue/Monk. Don't play a spellcaster, as spellcasters just got a big nerf if melee types are allowed to take Called Shots.
Bacon and Eggs 03-09-04, 06:18 PM	Originally posted by Aramil_silverwind Am I just over reacting, or is he really screwing the game over? I vote Overreacting. Because you are reacting to something that has yet to happen. Play the game. then. If it's that bad then complain again with cause. Sure it may be the same complaints again. But it will be after experienceing the full potential that is poo.
Heron_Marked_Blade 03-09-04, 08:15 PM	Originally posted by Gandilas Don't play a spellcaster, as spellcasters just got a big nerf if melee types are allowed to take Called Shots. No, play a Sorcerer 1/Ranger X, and choose true strike as one of your first level spells. Then Called Shot the bejeezus out of your BBEGs. :devil:
Thorak 03-09-04, 10:42 PM	Dangit, heron_marked_blade beat me to it. True Strike is a called-shot system's downfall. Ask him how big a penalty it is to shoot something in, say, the eye or the throat. These should be instant-kills. Gear your character for arcane archer (just because you'll get the levels of casting for the skill, and get some good archer abilities with the PrC too), and instant-kill everything that looks nasty. He'll either start instant-killing party members as well, or he'll drop the ridiculous called-shot system. Either way, you've successfully stopped the system from being relevant.
Gandilas 03-11-04, 01:36 AM	Hello. I thought about spellcasters for a bit. There are several spells that allow a ranged touch attack. TS is the best though.
Pumpoei 03-11-04, 04:49 AM	This is symtomatic of newbie DMs; they love changing rules they don't understand, so they "make sense." Generally, it turns the rules system from bassicly o.k, into a steaming pile of poo. Thorak and heron_marked_blade are onto something, but my feeling is that whenever you try to exploit his crazy house rules, he's just going to say something like "it doesn't work," or "you can't do that." He's going to blame your actions rather than his perverted rules system. Fortunately this will kill his game as the players realize their utter powerlessness. So yeah, do it, but don't except anything but reproachment and game-death. Good Luck finding a decent DM. Even good players are sometimes quite poor at it.
Kalrin 03-11-04, 09:02 AM	An expansion on the True Strike trick that requires a couple more levels of Wizard.... Get the Following Spells: True Strike, Tenser's Transformation Get the Following Feats: Quicken Spell, Arcane Strike (from CW) Quicken True Strike gives you an instant kill, but when you run out of them, you can use Tenser's Transformation coupled with Arcane Strike to really start outshining the fighters and such...
Frodo Lives 03-11-04, 10:04 PM	I had a DM who wanted to constantly change the rules and add and subtract them in and out DURING the campaign. It was very annoying. There was no feel to the game as the characters had to be constantly changed over the course of the campaign to fit the new rules. I'd talk to the new DM and tell him point blank (politely) that the system is complicated enough for a new DM to master and leave the house rules out of it for now because honestly you think his game will be out of control and will crash and burn in record time. If he still insists on all his house rules, play his game and you'll probably be proven right. In my experience house rules that reflect major changes to the way the rules (especially combat rules) work do more harm than good. Well thought out house rules that are tested before implemented and are done mostly for flavor reasons work much more often.
thofighta 03-13-04, 06:49 AM	Hm, well. try to live with it. The DM will hopefully notice the very idiotic rules he have made, and stop using them. And besides, it might just not be as dumb as you think it will be. LIke my DM, he's like turned the whole :censored::censored::censored::censored: ing world upside down... Like: you get hung if you do spellcasting (its in the mayor cities, a pelor servant's rule....(!!!!!!!)) Therefore you cannot show yourself healing, spelling nor having a familiar or a paladin mount. Besides this: guess what, magical fire (fireballs etc) ruins bows etc like melting butter, cold damage slows. and he is yet inventing more crazy magic spells. ME as a mage! dont want fireballs and cold damage to be so good....!! He has invented whole new rules for lvlup, meaning you gotta do training for like 8 weeks to get the stats for your new lvl... crazy thing... but it aint that bad, but I liked the normal version better. Well, and then he decided on a low magic, and low money champaign. But now we got like 4 times more treasure than we should have had in a regular champaign, and we have more magic items than normal too almost... So he kinda dropped that out, even tho the only thing I as a wizard complained about was the HIGH nonmagical thing... (tho I havent yet been able to use any spellcomponents whatsoever there are feats that allow me not to need them to cast som im fine...) And he has this weird masterwork rule too, but it have proven worthy and not so bad. It is like this: double the prise of the ithem, add 400, and the item gets bonuses +1 to hit/+1 to damage, or if armor: +1AC/-1 armor check penality. Since all enchanted weapons are MW too, they get the bonus stacking. That means a +1 weapon for instance has got a +1 to hit/+2 damage. But anyway, his game has learnt me alot tho. we're currently having one DnD champaign running, with him as Dm, and one other with me as DM, and then we got a Vampire scenario running with one of the other players as a ST. So I must say, I have learnt alot about the game he started. Like: Stick to the lowmoney if it shall be lowmoney champaign Do not send waves and waves of monsters that are the same species and from the same place.... give the PC's a change Do not prevent people from making other than human PC's, and let them for Gods sake meet the other races... Have the PC's interested in doing something, like a storybased line through the whole champaign. (this is something he has managed very good tho. We always seek to help the magicusers and defends us from the pelor people, which is a way higher power than us at the moment. And he has also made sure we want to do it, becaus the other magic users helps us when needed and we have a place we belong to. NEVER make a penality to a person who MUST delete his old char and create a new because of somebody elses fault, it feels discriminating and is not fun (Yeah, it was me that had to do that) I ended up with 50% of what the other people had, and I was also charged a penality in 5k xp, from a total of 30,000. So, from being the one with most xp because of me being a good player, I got one of the ones with least.... (was at the bottom but due to some players that werent in the last session and had some lesser xp than me from before, I got slightly above them.) A party withing 1 lvls of each other are the best combination. Having members with much lover lvls are just idiotic. the reason: they are much weaker and that can be boring. The problem? Ill tell you: DnD if a thing you do for FUN, and its not fun when it is boring. So, personally, I prefer as a DM to keep all the PCs in same lvl, at most a 1 lvl difference. Second of all, if your putting up your own world. You should either use LONG time on it, or use rather only the neccesary time on it. It can be VERY releasing for you as DM if you can solve a typical; "I dont want to go there, do that nor live in this place" problem by just making a war, ruining the whole place, and then the PCs enter another world wich might just be a papergraph of a map you just draw a couple of minutes ago while giving the PCs a few minutes alone to discuss what they wanted to do. BUT, not to be way out of the thread here. My point really was. Its VERY good to watch other DMs, you will quickly find mistakes and flaws that you dont want to do yourself. And you might get champaign idead. And btw. For champaign idead, try reading the Dungeons masters guide/funniest thing PC's ever have said... Hope it helped you a little :) :ayyyy!:
Perseus 03-13-04, 12:48 PM	Let it go. Give him enough proverbial rope and space to hang himself.
zodiki 03-14-04, 04:15 AM	Never do anything out of spite. It's lame.
Crossover-Chronicler 03-14-04, 12:25 PM	Am I just over reacting, or is he really screwing the game over?Can't it be both? Called shot aren't so bad. Called shots to deliver an instant kill are, however. Make it clear to him that insta-kill called shots utterly tank challenge rating; if any foe can be dropped with a single attack like that, its challenge is reduced. The d12 critical table is just needlessly complicating. It'll bog down the game, but you can play through it. In short, don't try to teach him a lesson; just try to play and play well. Eventually he'll learn the flaws in his methods, or else become so enamored of them that you know never to play under him again.
mythandra 03-15-04, 11:03 AM	Originally posted by Aramil_silverwind Ok, heres the scenario: <SNIP> Am I just over reacting, or is he really screwing the game over? Let me preface this with the suggestion that you first ask him to remove his changes and then just sit this campaign out if he doesn't respect your wishes. I don't recommend this as it's a bit vindictive, but... ...send it right back at him. He increased the lethality of the game and you don't like it. Center your character on those rules. Take his ruling and stretch it to its logical extreme. If he's adding hit location tables, you can certainly use those rules and make him sorry he added them. Plan out your character ahead of time. Design him in such a way that these added rules make your character game-breakingly powerful. As an alternative, design your character to be immune to his added rules. He will attempt to enforce them and discover that you have made them utterly useless. Don't design your character to be useful to the party. Don't design your character to be a team player. Don't design your character to dominate the game by level 20. Simply design it to negate his added rules. lest I forget, you could also take his rulings and turn them into logistical nightmares. Hit location tables slow down gameplay. Use them often, even when they are unnecessary. Use them moreso when up against lower level monsters. Use every ruling he has added to bog the game down. Don't debate them, just use them. When people complain, you can point to him and say, "he added them."