Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadow_Bomber 06-10-04, 09:45 PM	Could you give somebody a belt or item that drains health, take it off after they die, and get away with it? I think that would be the perfect crime, absolutely no evidence.
Thorak 06-10-04, 10:54 PM	Well, no physical evidence, anyway. I remember way back in 2nd edition, coming up with nasty assassination techniques with cursed items. Two favorites; Necklaces of Strangulation and Bags of Devouring. Slip them over the guard you snuck up behind, and you've got a relatively silent kill, especially with the bag. Hard to scream for help when an extradimensional creature just ate your head.
ehrin 06-11-04, 12:44 AM	you could also simply stab them through the eye into the brain with an icicyle. Then, when it melts, no more murder weapon. Or, as George Carlin used to say, pick one guy up and kill another guy with him. Two dead bodies, no murder weapon.
Choronis 06-11-04, 02:54 AM	Here's what a friend of mine did at one of our sessions earlier. He's a Neutral Evil Human Cleric of Nerull. Profession: Undertaker. He had been given a task by some powerful demon to steal the crown of Pelor in the town's church, which was supposedly the demons originally, and gave him 2-3 Invisibility Potions. He managed to get one of the priests into his house to discuss the faith of Pelor (or something along those lines) and he promptly Death Touched him. He sent his Undertaking Lackies to send the priests body to their House of operations. Afterwards, the Cleric then used his hat of disguise and disguised himself as the Priest he killed. Long story short, he got into the most sacred place in the church (where the crown was kept) and stole it right in front of the Head Priest and got away with his invis potions. He took the crown to the demon where he promptly got rewarded. Here's the best part: next day in town, there's a Wanted Bounty on Brother Gilbert (the Priest that the Cleric killed) of 5,000 gold. So, the Cleric goes to his house of operations, fetches his corpse, and claims the 5,000 gold reward.
Thorak 06-11-04, 10:46 AM	Originally posted by Choronis Here's the best part: next day in town, there's a Wanted Bounty on Brother Gilbert (the Priest that the Cleric killed) of 5,000 gold. So, the Cleric goes to his house of operations, fetches his corpse, and claims the 5,000 gold reward. This is what changes that story from "meh" to "hehehehehehehe"
Beamup 06-11-04, 11:00 AM	Originally posted by Choronis Here's the best part: next day in town, there's a Wanted Bounty on Brother Gilbert (the Priest that the Cleric killed) of 5,000 gold. So, the Cleric goes to his house of operations, fetches his corpse, and claims the 5,000 gold reward. :rofl: Congratulations, you just earned 10 style points!
Revelation 06-11-04, 11:25 AM	Hasn't that temple ever heard of divination spells? Or when they get the body speak with dead? I'd leave town fast if I was that mage.
Thorak 06-11-04, 01:02 PM	Originally posted by Revelation Hasn't that temple ever heard of divination spells? Or when they get the body speak with dead? I'd leave town fast if I was that mage. Except the High Priest saw Brother Gilbert steal the crown. And the PC, I'm assuming legally by the laws of the town, killed the criminal and brought him to justice. There's no need for an investigation. Sure, if they suspected something was 'odd', they'd use divinations to figure things out. But there's little that seems 'odd' at first glance here, the story checks out admirably well. The PC has no known reason to engage in theft, let alone of that specific item, so he's not even remotely a suspect. Think of divinations like modern forensics. They only bother when there's something not quite right. In this case, the only thing that might come up is the time of death for Gilbert, but that assumes that the people in question have a modern understanding of what happens soon after death. And, now that I think about it, there's only one person in town who is likely to have that kind of knowledge. The town's undertaker, the PC in question. And I'm pretty sure he's not going to be honest about it. This adds yet another level of "sweeeeeet" to the crime.
Shr3dZ 06-11-04, 04:13 PM	Originally posted by Thorak Sure, if they suspected something was 'odd', they'd use divinations to figure things out. But there's little that seems 'odd' at first glance here, the story checks out admirably well. The PC has no known reason to engage in theft, let alone of that specific item, so he's not even remotely a suspect. I would think they might consider it 'odd' that a member of the church tried to steal the crown. Id say they might wanna ask him why he did it, especially since Im assuming that way out of character for Gilbert...
Kilamar 06-11-04, 04:43 PM	Originally posted by Shadow_Bomber I think that would be the perfect crime, absolutely no evidence. In a world of magic the perfect crime is almost impossible. You need some anti-magic or something similar. Kilamar
Edward 06-11-04, 05:12 PM	They would cast speak with dead on the corps. If only to learn the location of the crown so it could be recovered. When the answers don’t make sense (and a corps cant lie) thay would invstigate further. The perfect crime is not when there is no evidence you cant achieve that. The perfect crime is when there is no investigation. Edward
a18ffe 06-12-04, 07:56 PM	Just what I was thinking edward. In D&D, dead men DO tell tales.
Capn Charlie 06-12-04, 08:27 PM	This is the kind of highly amusing antics that I wish my players would more often create. It might be a highly interesting thing to see how the priest acts when confronted with the question of where the crown was, when he "captured" the cleric of pelor. Maybe it is my own dastardly sense of guile, but I would see about stealing the crown back from the demon, returning it to the church of pelor for an additional reward, then tipping the demon off as to who(the Pelorites) stole his newly acquired bauble, and either goad him into attacking the church outright in a raage, or offering even more earthly power, riches and concubines for it's "re-procurement". As to the questions of investigation and crime in a fantasy setting, it has been my experience that the higher the level of magic involved the more time consuming it is to hide a crime. Shrouds of disintegration only get you so far, after all, especially consodering the lack of remains needed for for a true ressurection. Of course it would twake a big reason to go about true rezzing witnesses and murder victems. Then their is the complication of involvement by deities. I find it mopre productive in general to err on the side of cool, and forego some of hte more fun consuming aspects of fantasy, like the constant use of magic.
flamefist drunkenmonk 06-12-04, 08:33 PM	come now people, there may be a few things that could have happened to mess him up... but it was still a very good idea overall
Capn Charlie 06-12-04, 08:45 PM	OH, please don't getme wrong, I have nothing but polite golf applause, and "Well played, sir"s for this clever player. But you have to admit, it would have only taken a slip of the tongue in roleplay, or a misroll of the dice to doom his efforts to failure. I believe we just like to armchair quarterback it a bit, at times. I also think it would havwe been interesting to see how he would have dealt with a kink in his plan, say the cleric being questioned after death, and them finding out what went on. IN the player's place in tht situation I would have attempted to lay the blame on the demon, saying it had compelled me to do it's bidding, then agree to help the church recover the crown to save my neck, all the while plotting to pit them against each other and pick up the pieces. Perhaps luring the high priest out with you somewhere to confide in him of your "disgrace" of being controlled by the demon, and trying to get him to accompany you to retrieve the crown in secrecy, so as to save yourself the (sob) disgrace of being a demon's unwitting pawn. Pit the two against one another, and pick off the already weakened winner. then isit, wait, and collect the reward on the initial pelorite's "obvious accomplice" and rtetrieve the crown as well.
flamefist drunkenmonk 06-12-04, 10:21 PM	that is very true... just sounded like everyone was bashin the poor guy :D
Phist 06-12-04, 10:33 PM	Back on topic: I play a lot of assassins, they're my favorite class. One of my favorite tactics is to kill the mark, then set his house on fire as I leave. Medival houses were very flamible, and people just assume it was an accident. My DM agrees that that sort of accident would have been common back then. And if anyone gets suspisious, any evidence, including the body, is burnt away.
Veton 06-12-04, 10:42 PM	You know, when I first saw the title of this thread ('A new way to assassinate stuff'), I had an image of an Assassin using his Death Attack on a chair... But anyway, to stop a Speak With Dead spell, all you need to do is destroy the jaw of the corpse so that the spell won't work, and claim that you didn't mean to do it, but in the heat of the battle you just hit him where it would bring him down :smirk:
a18ffe 06-14-04, 12:22 AM	Not bashing the guy, it's obvious he got away with it. I probably wouldn't have turned in the body, but would have destroyed it. Of course, Veton had a pretty good idea too. I don't know the whole story. With all the donations the church gets, perhaps they decide they will just make another crown. Perhaps the priest, was a loner that nobody cares about. One of my char was framed for murder, and some of the PC's believed it...it kinda hurt.
Skaboozh 06-14-04, 01:29 AM	My favorite way of assassinating people has remained the same for a while. Obviously, this only works in a cold environment. All you need to do is knock your target out. Either with subdual damage, a sleep spell, cheap poison, whatever. Then pack his mouth and nostrils with snow. The body will die because of a lack of oxygen a few hours before the snow melts. Their will be evidence that the guy has been knocked out somehow, but no explanation why he's dead.
Kilamar 06-14-04, 07:01 AM	Speak with dead to know who knocked him out. Contact other plane to know what happened afterwards or any other spell to get obscure information. Kilamar
Aki Warren 06-15-04, 10:02 PM	Lol, unfortunatly I play either really really good characters, or really really evil characters, so from my evil point of view you should have pitted the demon against the church. From my good point of view, you should have sided with Pelor! Such is the curse and gift of Gemini
flamefist drunkenmonk 06-16-04, 11:57 AM	stupid spells ruining assasination attempts haha. It seems like between scry, speak with dead, and a few other obscure spells we cant do anything ....:( ill give everyone a little challenge i guess... how could u kill part of a town without them knowing it was you. Its not much of an assasination ... but the same idea.
Prachett 06-16-04, 03:34 PM	I always liked the old disguise yourself (or polymorph, whatever) into someone else then whack a guy while framing someone else. Last thing he sees is his buddy. But, the best way to avoid getting caught is as someone else said, you must totally avoid suspicion. Once they think its you, they will employ the usual bag of magical tricks and I don't think there's much in the way of 'Due Process' to protect the accused. I like the steal the crown bit, but as a prosecutor it has too many holes for me. How did the caretaker come upon this guy? How decomposed is the body? Can you tell it was dead before it supposedly stole the body? Why doesn't the body have the crown? Is there any other supporting evidence that this priest would rob the church? Did anyone happen to see the priest visit the undertaker? If the undertaker was wooing the priest along some philisophical lines did anyone see the undertaker near the church and/or the priest prior to his disapperance? Do any of the undertaker's minions get squirly when the undertaker is making deals with a demon? Do the minions want a piece of the pie? (the reward alone would set one of the minions up for life) Is the town or city that big that an 'undertaker' really needs minions to help with a mass of bodies? Don't the priests themselves bury the bodies? Does anyone think the undertaker is a strange bird (moreso than the expected undertaker type wierdness). Anyway, blah, blah, blah... Don't get me wrong, I did like it and my questions were more rhetorical. It's just that my real-life favored enemy is 'criminals.' As far as drain the healt belt - same questions apply: Did anyone see this guy give the target the belt? Is it an obvious nice belt? Did people ask the target where he got the belt? Was he in perfect health before the belt, but dead after the belt? How do you remove the belt afterwards (you'd place yourself at the scene of the crime) Does the belt detect as magic? Where was the belt made? Is it unusual? Would someone know where to go to get this type of belt? Did you kill the guy who made the belt? Will the guy who made the belt give you up? etc... edit: spelling and added the belt bit. cheers
Carkni 06-17-04, 01:39 AM	As a DM, whenever a crime is commited on Church property, there's always divination spells going off left, right and center. Unlike Spellcasters, they don't have material components. They just wait a day, and get fresh spells to choose. Giving the corpse back just made it easier. Wizards, however, a little lazier than Clerics. But they're hard as hell to kill properly without setting off the golems, traps, and contingincies.
K.O.E.G 06-17-04, 01:57 AM	_the_ best way to kill someone in D&D is to use to use the the Cloak that the Le'she that runs the Garotte has (ELH). Bam. Send a corpse to an extradimensional space, only a greater deity can get it back
flamefist drunkenmonk 06-21-04, 07:29 PM	maybe its just me... or is it kinda ironic that the person that has the best idea for killing someone has an avatar of a pink pony anyway .. great idea
Not a monkey 06-21-04, 07:56 PM	Originally posted by K.O.E.G _the_ best way to kill someone in D&D is to use to use the the Cloak that the Le'she that runs the Garotte has (ELH). Bam. Send a corpse to an extradimensional space, only a greater deity can get it back Wouldn't a simple bag of devouring be about as effective?
Carkni 06-21-04, 08:24 PM	Or putting the corpse in a Bag of Holding, and dropping that into a Portable Hole.
ck2001wendt 06-22-04, 02:01 PM	Ahh...magic and crime. Speak with Dead is tough to get around. But if you´re going to commit pre-meditated murder, you could always get yourself a Scroll or two of Modify Memory. Incapacitate him first, then strap him to a chair and start tailoring his memory to frame him. So when the Cleric asks the corpse about how he died and why he stole the crown, he´ll stick to YOUR story. Morbid, I know (slinks toward neutral evil). Would make it hard to get that 5,000 GP though...unless you guess that a reward´s going to be an issue later on. Oh, and Boondoggle has suggested the best (or most effective, anyway) way to assasinate someone: A crossbow with the Radiant Holding enhancement in the hands of a trained assassin. 1 point of force damage, but a RANGED TOUCH ATTACK. Ambush your Mark, and do 5-10 Ranged Sneak Attacks before he even responds. You´re sure to hit, and all that damage adds up quick. Plus there´s the Death Attack saves. I don´t know if force damage even leaves a mark. Maybe internal trauma.