A Pally with 7 Int. [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Pally with 7 Int. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Edwind
04-23-06, 04:16 PM I'm currently playing a Lizardfolk Paladin of Bahamut with a 7 Int. My stats all together

15
12
20
7
9
16

this wasn't pointbuy, and he had alot better stats, but my DM said I had to reroll cause they were to godly. I believe I had three 16s and a 17. SO my problem is how am I supposed to play an effective Paladin if I can't even make complete sentences? I've asked another member of our group to play his "moral conscience" due to the likelyhood that he could be easily tricked into doing something evil. This is the first time I've ever played a character with a stat lower then 10 so I'd say I'm new to this. When he have to make an Int check to see if you can put a two peice puzzle together its safe to say you could have troubles with the character. I've already noticed problems that will come up, like the fact I only have 9 skill points and I'm level 5, so any PrC which require a certain number of ranks in skills is out. Up side I have 70 HP. Comments, questions or salutions would be nice.
Pangeon
04-23-06, 04:29 PM My advice? Consider yourself lucky, 7 isn't really that low. In a campaign I'm playing now, my friend has a human paladin with an Int of 5. This is after he increased it at 4th level, up from 4. We can never remember his name, so we just call him "Int Five."

Have fun playing him though. He may be a bit slow, but he's not mentaly retarded or anything, so don't overplay his handicap. As a paladin, Int really isn't that important to you, (except for skill points,) so chances are you'll do fine. Good luck.
JulesCARV
04-23-06, 04:31 PM Double post
JulesCARV
04-23-06, 04:32 PM Well.... eventually your mount will be able to help you out with 9 int...

Anyway, 7 int doesn't mean unable to form complete sentences, any more than 14 int means able to prove the Riemann Zeta Hypothesis. It's just kinda slow. Anyway, as to being tricked, that's based on wisdom, not intelligence, primarily: to be specific, it's wisdom + ranks in sense motive :).
Grunj
04-23-06, 04:36 PM Play him like a well-intentioned TV anchorman. Nice personality, strong, fast. Just not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He's not braindead, he just doesn't think real fast and he isn't real perceptive. I could have a good time with those stats.

It's nice to se INT as the dump stat instead of CHA.
Edwind
04-23-06, 04:47 PM But since my Int is so low, would I have to make checks to think of battle plans or things like that ALL the time?
Lord Ian Stark
04-23-06, 05:04 PM But since my Int is so low, would I have to make checks to think of battle plans or things like that ALL the time?

These kinda questions should be directed to your DM.

It's fine to get ideas, but anything we say could be met with a quick and all ending "No" by your DM.

IMO a 7 INT won't have many effects outside of the already penalization of skills and INT checks. The rest will be determined by the DM if any.
Edwind
04-23-06, 05:19 PM Well.... eventually your mount will be able to help you out with 9 int...

Wait,wait,wait...You're telling me my mount can speak? I totally did not know that...
JulesCARV
04-23-06, 05:53 PM Wait,wait,wait...You're telling me my mount can speak? I totally did not know that...

No, not really. I think that paladins should eventually be able to talk to their mounts (and vice versa), just like familiars and sorcerers/wizards and blackguards and fiendish servants, but by RAW, no.
Dragonsblood
04-23-06, 06:27 PM I'd be more concerned with the 9 wisdom. Bye bye spellcasting.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
04-23-06, 06:33 PM I'd be more concerned with the 9 wisdom. Bye bye spellcasting.
I thought it was Charisma-based.
Verelor
04-23-06, 06:37 PM It isn't! Ask your DM to switch you to a varient non-spellcasting paladin really quickly before he notices! :D
Dragonsblood
04-23-06, 06:55 PM I thought it was Charisma-based.

The core paladin isn't. No clue how Bahamut paladins work.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
04-23-06, 07:33 PM The core paladin isn't. No clue how Bahamut paladins work.
Well, I haven't looked at the class section in the PHB for ages.
Reversefigure4
04-24-06, 01:20 AM You'll be able to speak fine with 7 INT, although probably not with incredibly intellectual words. It's only at 3-4 INT that you get the "Thug want smash! *grunt*" style characters.

Personally, with those stats I think of a very single minded Paladin (to whatever his deity's goals), very unwilling to listen to new ideas. Probably not with overly advanced tactics, perhaps instead believing in the honour of a face to face fair fight - standing there and slugging it out with his foe (after all, Mr 20 CON can certainly take a beating).

Really, 7 INT and 9 WIS shouldn't make you cripplingly stupid or anything. As long as you don't play him as any sort of genius or advanced strategist, you should be fine.
Edwind
04-24-06, 01:47 AM I'd be more concerned with the 9 wisdom. Bye bye spellcasting.

Doesn't matter, I would have been playing the 7 Int if I didn't take the none spellcasting paladin in Complete Warrior. Only problem was I wanted to play a Good paladin, not just like smite and slash, but just be exaltedly good, to a point of sainthood, that was my idea when I first said I was going to be a paladin, and it would actually how I'd play all my paladins. But now that I rolled my stats I don't think I could do that now. Although if the smite and smash does come up a 26AC and a 20 CON does help there.
Shaggy_Shaggs
04-24-06, 03:02 AM Well, Int 7 is a bit retarded. Supposedly each point of Int is worth about 10 IQ points, so Int 7 would be in the neighborhood of 70 IQ.

It's not the end of the world. Forrest Gump supposedly had IQ 75. He was also pretty good and pretty dedicated, and not too bad with certain types of puzzles (remember the gun assembly in the army?). He could also form sentences, and even argue... he was just simple and slow about it.

Maybe you ought to go watch that again (or for the first time, though I doubt anyone has not seen the movie) for inspiration.
Iry
04-24-06, 03:14 AM Ever seen Dragonball Z?
You're Goku.
Flushmaster
04-24-06, 04:36 AM I'd personally think that, outside of a fight situation, Goku's wisdom would be more like 4, but the intelligence of 7 is about right.
JulesCARV
04-24-06, 05:07 AM It isn't! Ask your DM to switch you to a varient non-spellcasting paladin really quickly before he notices! :D

Are they any good? It looked to me like they got very little in exchange for losing spells. I ask because I'm currently playing a 2nd level paladin with 10 wisdom (His backstory (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=625949) shows him as being not-very-wise, so I didn't give him too much wisdom.) I looked into the idea of quietly turning him into a non-spellcasting paladin, but it seemed like getting a periapt of wisdom or something would be better than being such a variant paladin: it seems like the abilities they have are just weak, especially since I'd like to play a paladin 10/bard 10 assuming we get to 20 levels (not likely), and their neat ability seems to be on the 11th paladin level. Having a weapon that bypasses DR/good seems nice... but even if I can get a measly +2 wisdom boost, it seems like I'd be better off with a normal, spellcasting paladin. I like the idea of a non-spellcasting paladin, but it seems like it was implemented significantly weaker than a regular paladin -- and regular paladins are already a slightly weak class (I don't think they need to be made stronger, but they're on the slightly weak-ish side by D&D standards).
Heahengel
04-24-06, 09:14 AM Well, Int 7 is a bit retarded. Supposedly each point of Int is worth about 10 IQ points, so Int 7 would be in the neighborhood of 70 IQ.

It's not the end of the world. Forrest Gump supposedly had IQ 75. He was also pretty good and pretty dedicated, and not too bad with certain types of puzzles (remember the gun assembly in the army?). He could also form sentences, and even argue... he was just simple and slow about it.

Maybe you ought to go watch that again (or for the first time, though I doubt anyone has not seen the movie) for inspiration.
I've never liked that analogy. It breaks down with low intellegence modifiers. Int 3 mean that you are able to speak, at least a little bit. That puts you at IQ 65 or so right there. From what I understand of most IQ scales, IQ 30 is way lower than a dog or monkey. Also, assuming that you use the standard '3d6' for people in your world (not the characters, who are meant to be special), then int 7 is somewhat common, whereas in real life IQ 70 is pretty rare (a webpage I was just looking at said 2.5% of the population had 70 IQ or less).

Edit: From the same page, apparently the US military doesn't accept anyone from the bottom 10% of society, which they rate as 80 IQ.

Edit2: All I'm really trying to say is that I don't think an int 7 character should really be considered retarded. I don't really want to start an argument about IQ, so maybe its best if everyone ignores all but the previous sentence. :)
Wargamer
04-24-06, 09:29 AM I started with an Int 8 Paladin... my solution was to go for a "what would [Bahamut in your case] do?" approach.

In short, your Paladin doesn't think for himself, he just tries to follow the "advise" of religious texts. He isn't good at thinking outside the box, and just goes through life with the "I must be right because Bahamut is on my side" ethos.
Azezel
04-24-06, 11:38 AM Think back to when you were is school - chances are you know (or at least knew of) someone with an INT of 7 or so. Not the stupidest kid in the school, but the guy a rung or two above him. He was in the basics classes. He didn't like maths or reading. He certainly was not retarded (though I daresay lots of people called him that), just less apt than most people. Think of him as your role model.
malignor
04-24-06, 11:55 AM Carry scrolls with all manner of subjects.
Refer to them often.

... and I think Goku is smarter than you might think. He just has the education of a turnip.
Dragonsblood
04-24-06, 05:07 PM I like the idea of a non-spellcasting paladin, but it seems like it was implemented significantly weaker than a regular paladin -- and regular paladins are already a slightly weak class (I don't think they need to be made stronger, but they're on the slightly weak-ish side by D&D standards).

It depends on how your party does stats. I'm playing a paladin right now with a 42 PB equivilant because I rolled really well and with all of his class features he's a much greater asset to the party than a fighter or barbarian with 42 PB. Not only can I dish out melee damage, but I can backup heal (LoH and wand), use divine items and soon divine magic, soon I'll be able to turn undead, I'm immune to lots of things, and I have great saves, HP, and AC.

I suppose if you go crazy with suppliments they would be considered weak because of the powercreep of suppliments. My group does core only.
terrainmonkey
04-24-06, 08:56 PM str:15 2
dex:12 1
con: 20 5
Int: 7 -2
Wis: 9 -1
Cha: 16 3

this is what you originally rolled: 13, 12, 18, 9, 9, 16

this is where you put them before the lizardfolk racial abilities were added:
str 13, dx 12, con 18, int 9, wis 9, cha 16.

you have a +5 Natural armor bonus. Dex is unneccessary so put the 9 in that, and the 13 in int. or, 16. here's why. let's say you did this with your stats:

Str: 12
Dex: 9
Con: 9
int:16
wis: 13
cha 18

your final stats with racial abilities would be this:
s: 14 2
Dex 9 -1
Con: 11 0
Int: 14 2
Wis 13 1
Cha 18 4

you need wisdom and charisma. int is good for skills. 7 int gives you maybe 1 skill point per level. this sucks ass. wisdom gives you spells. and you can always add 1 at 4th level to give you 4th level spells. that's all you need because that is the highest level of spell you can cast.
charisma is good for smites, healing, turning undead, and a host of diplomacy skill rolls. i don't go as a paladin unless i have a 17 or greater Cha. it's not worth it at all.
you start with 2 levels of humanoid. which gives you your bonus hit points at 1st level, and with a d10, you should be okay after that. you don't need a high con bonus.
like i said earlier, dex is unneccessary because of your +5 NAB. you don't need a dex bonus, so there's your dump stat.
so, you went from a +8 total modifier to a +9 total stat mod. while not infinitely better, you come out with more +'s than -'s. That's always a better thing in my book.

Also, don't forget the class skills you get for being a lizardman. 5x int mod on three skills isn't a bad thing at all. remember you also get racial modifers to the rolls you get for racial class skills +4 for each one.

all this for a happy dandy LA of +1. not too shabby.
hope this helps.

oh, and if you are thinking of going with a paladin of bahamut, think about the platinum knight PrC.
The_Shaman
04-24-06, 09:32 PM Well, given that 13 intelligence is quite intelligent, but not exactly genius, 7 intelligence should be someone a bit dumb, but not an idiot. I am playing a sorcerer and my familiar should have an intelligence of 6 or 7. My idea about it? Have it on the intellectual level of a first- or second-grader. It doesn't get complex concepts, and it does not catch on quickly. That doesn't mean it won't have a strong sense of purpose or that it will lack common sense, though.
Bulletproof_Condom
04-24-06, 11:11 PM Int 7 is about Forrest Gump level. It's not quite "DING Fries are done!"

" 'I'm not a smart man... but I know what a zombie is.' I pull my holy symbol and turn it."

You'll be fine.
Edwind
04-25-06, 01:44 AM Thanks for the input on how I could possible play my character, I'm not too fond of the Forest Gump idea cause, I've seen the movie and I don't think I would want my Lizardfolk to act like that...The 1st/2nd grader idea appealled to me, and I've began to flesh out his personality.

What terrainmonkey said makes alot of sence, but I don't think I could do it like that. I've been known to put highest stat into the classes most used, but I've started to get out of that habbit, due to the fact I could just get a magic item or more stats every 4th, I feel I should share the wealth with my other abilities. The reason I went with the stat choice I went with was because of how the campaign will be about. I probably should have mentioned this before but...7 Int here.

The campaign is based in an evil world. Mostly LE,NE,CE,LN,NN,CN. Rarely any good of any kind. Appearently from what my DM has given me for the whole story with the game was the evil gods have banished or surpressed the good ones, their temples sacked and razed, and nothing but ruins of them are left. So its pretty much Resident Evil style, where everythings either out to kill us or just doesn't care and I guess I've made it my side mission to try and find these ruined temples and rebuild and bring the good gods back.

Thats what I've been told whats going on so far in the game, but now for what I have planned for my character. I may or may not have stated it but hes level 5. I plan on going Sword of the Rightious for the +4 skill points and the exalted feats every level. Once I've mowed through that I actually plan on going Vessle of Buhumat. I already have the 5 ranks in Diplomacy and the +2 skill points from SoR will get my armorsmithing to where it needs to be.

His stats are how they are due to his background. When he was born and matured the elders realized he was a bit slow, and during one of their moments to "cull the weak" from their ranks he was attacked by three of his tribesmen and won (20 CON FTW!) When they started to attack others he stood up for a small Poison Dusk (another PC) He fended them off and they became quick allies. Brains and Brawns type of thing. So after they showed they were able to live within the tribe they were pretty much left alone and My character helped every once and awhile with hunting trips, although his slow mind didn't catch on too fast to the tricks and methods of how they hunted. He stumbled across a ruined temple (of Buhumat) and explored inside where he came across a wall carving of a huge battle, Buhumat in the clouds, sun shining behind him commanding a great army charging towards an equal ifnot greater army lead by a five headed dragon on a mountain. After seeing this he got a vision from Buhumat but I haven't figured out what he told him, I may leave that up to my DM. So those were his first steps in becoming a paladin.
Yabanjin
04-25-06, 02:24 AM I'd say, play that Paladin real-quiet-like... . Think spagetti Western. With a bad script.

on a side note:

Int 7 is about Forrest Gump level. It's not quite "DING Fries are done!"

" 'I'm not a smart man... but I know what a zombie is.' I pull my holy symbol and turn it."

You'll be fine. That's too damn funny!

Smiter is as smiter does...

(alright, that's pretty lame, but it's late and that's all I got right now - maybe I'll edit it later... :cool: )
Nyaz
04-25-06, 10:46 AM But INT 7 is a strength in roleplaying a paladin, if you think about it:

Rogue: (to DM): I look around at the fallen corpses and start digging through their pockets.

Paladin: Hey, what's Rogue doing?

DM: You see him turn each of the bodies and rummage through their possessions, removing items of value. It is clear to you that he is trying to find a clue to the identity of these characters and why they attacked your party.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edwind 04-23-06, 04:16 PM	I'm currently playing a Lizardfolk Paladin of Bahamut with a 7 Int. My stats all together 15 12 20 7 9 16 this wasn't pointbuy, and he had alot better stats, but my DM said I had to reroll cause they were to godly. I believe I had three 16s and a 17. SO my problem is how am I supposed to play an effective Paladin if I can't even make complete sentences? I've asked another member of our group to play his "moral conscience" due to the likelyhood that he could be easily tricked into doing something evil. This is the first time I've ever played a character with a stat lower then 10 so I'd say I'm new to this. When he have to make an Int check to see if you can put a two peice puzzle together its safe to say you could have troubles with the character. I've already noticed problems that will come up, like the fact I only have 9 skill points and I'm level 5, so any PrC which require a certain number of ranks in skills is out. Up side I have 70 HP. Comments, questions or salutions would be nice.
Pangeon 04-23-06, 04:29 PM	My advice? Consider yourself lucky, 7 isn't really that low. In a campaign I'm playing now, my friend has a human paladin with an Int of 5. This is after he increased it at 4th level, up from 4. We can never remember his name, so we just call him "Int Five." Have fun playing him though. He may be a bit slow, but he's not mentaly retarded or anything, so don't overplay his handicap. As a paladin, Int really isn't that important to you, (except for skill points,) so chances are you'll do fine. Good luck.
JulesCARV 04-23-06, 04:31 PM	Double post
JulesCARV 04-23-06, 04:32 PM	Well.... eventually your mount will be able to help you out with 9 int... Anyway, 7 int doesn't mean unable to form complete sentences, any more than 14 int means able to prove the Riemann Zeta Hypothesis. It's just kinda slow. Anyway, as to being tricked, that's based on wisdom, not intelligence, primarily: to be specific, it's wisdom + ranks in sense motive :).
Grunj 04-23-06, 04:36 PM	Play him like a well-intentioned TV anchorman. Nice personality, strong, fast. Just not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He's not braindead, he just doesn't think real fast and he isn't real perceptive. I could have a good time with those stats. It's nice to se INT as the dump stat instead of CHA.
Edwind 04-23-06, 04:47 PM	But since my Int is so low, would I have to make checks to think of battle plans or things like that ALL the time?
Lord Ian Stark 04-23-06, 05:04 PM	But since my Int is so low, would I have to make checks to think of battle plans or things like that ALL the time? These kinda questions should be directed to your DM. It's fine to get ideas, but anything we say could be met with a quick and all ending "No" by your DM. IMO a 7 INT won't have many effects outside of the already penalization of skills and INT checks. The rest will be determined by the DM if any.
Edwind 04-23-06, 05:19 PM	Well.... eventually your mount will be able to help you out with 9 int... Wait,wait,wait...You're telling me my mount can speak? I totally did not know that...
JulesCARV 04-23-06, 05:53 PM	Wait,wait,wait...You're telling me my mount can speak? I totally did not know that... No, not really. I think that paladins should eventually be able to talk to their mounts (and vice versa), just like familiars and sorcerers/wizards and blackguards and fiendish servants, but by RAW, no.
Dragonsblood 04-23-06, 06:27 PM	I'd be more concerned with the 9 wisdom. Bye bye spellcasting.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 04-23-06, 06:33 PM	I'd be more concerned with the 9 wisdom. Bye bye spellcasting. I thought it was Charisma-based.
Verelor 04-23-06, 06:37 PM	It isn't! Ask your DM to switch you to a varient non-spellcasting paladin really quickly before he notices! :D
Dragonsblood 04-23-06, 06:55 PM	I thought it was Charisma-based. The core paladin isn't. No clue how Bahamut paladins work.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 04-23-06, 07:33 PM	The core paladin isn't. No clue how Bahamut paladins work. Well, I haven't looked at the class section in the PHB for ages.
Reversefigure4 04-24-06, 01:20 AM	You'll be able to speak fine with 7 INT, although probably not with incredibly intellectual words. It's only at 3-4 INT that you get the "Thug want smash! grunt" style characters. Personally, with those stats I think of a very single minded Paladin (to whatever his deity's goals), very unwilling to listen to new ideas. Probably not with overly advanced tactics, perhaps instead believing in the honour of a face to face fair fight - standing there and slugging it out with his foe (after all, Mr 20 CON can certainly take a beating). Really, 7 INT and 9 WIS shouldn't make you cripplingly stupid or anything. As long as you don't play him as any sort of genius or advanced strategist, you should be fine.
Edwind 04-24-06, 01:47 AM	I'd be more concerned with the 9 wisdom. Bye bye spellcasting. Doesn't matter, I would have been playing the 7 Int if I didn't take the none spellcasting paladin in Complete Warrior. Only problem was I wanted to play a Good paladin, not just like smite and slash, but just be exaltedly good, to a point of sainthood, that was my idea when I first said I was going to be a paladin, and it would actually how I'd play all my paladins. But now that I rolled my stats I don't think I could do that now. Although if the smite and smash does come up a 26AC and a 20 CON does help there.
Shaggy_Shaggs 04-24-06, 03:02 AM	Well, Int 7 is a bit retarded. Supposedly each point of Int is worth about 10 IQ points, so Int 7 would be in the neighborhood of 70 IQ. It's not the end of the world. Forrest Gump supposedly had IQ 75. He was also pretty good and pretty dedicated, and not too bad with certain types of puzzles (remember the gun assembly in the army?). He could also form sentences, and even argue... he was just simple and slow about it. Maybe you ought to go watch that again (or for the first time, though I doubt anyone has not seen the movie) for inspiration.
Iry 04-24-06, 03:14 AM	Ever seen Dragonball Z? You're Goku.
Flushmaster 04-24-06, 04:36 AM	I'd personally think that, outside of a fight situation, Goku's wisdom would be more like 4, but the intelligence of 7 is about right.
JulesCARV 04-24-06, 05:07 AM	It isn't! Ask your DM to switch you to a varient non-spellcasting paladin really quickly before he notices! :D Are they any good? It looked to me like they got very little in exchange for losing spells. I ask because I'm currently playing a 2nd level paladin with 10 wisdom (His backstory (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=625949) shows him as being not-very-wise, so I didn't give him too much wisdom.) I looked into the idea of quietly turning him into a non-spellcasting paladin, but it seemed like getting a periapt of wisdom or something would be better than being such a variant paladin: it seems like the abilities they have are just weak, especially since I'd like to play a paladin 10/bard 10 assuming we get to 20 levels (not likely), and their neat ability seems to be on the 11th paladin level. Having a weapon that bypasses DR/good seems nice... but even if I can get a measly +2 wisdom boost, it seems like I'd be better off with a normal, spellcasting paladin. I like the idea of a non-spellcasting paladin, but it seems like it was implemented significantly weaker than a regular paladin -- and regular paladins are already a slightly weak class (I don't think they need to be made stronger, but they're on the slightly weak-ish side by D&D standards).
Heahengel 04-24-06, 09:14 AM	Well, Int 7 is a bit retarded. Supposedly each point of Int is worth about 10 IQ points, so Int 7 would be in the neighborhood of 70 IQ. It's not the end of the world. Forrest Gump supposedly had IQ 75. He was also pretty good and pretty dedicated, and not too bad with certain types of puzzles (remember the gun assembly in the army?). He could also form sentences, and even argue... he was just simple and slow about it. Maybe you ought to go watch that again (or for the first time, though I doubt anyone has not seen the movie) for inspiration. I've never liked that analogy. It breaks down with low intellegence modifiers. Int 3 mean that you are able to speak, at least a little bit. That puts you at IQ 65 or so right there. From what I understand of most IQ scales, IQ 30 is way lower than a dog or monkey. Also, assuming that you use the standard '3d6' for people in your world (not the characters, who are meant to be special), then int 7 is somewhat common, whereas in real life IQ 70 is pretty rare (a webpage I was just looking at said 2.5% of the population had 70 IQ or less). Edit: From the same page, apparently the US military doesn't accept anyone from the bottom 10% of society, which they rate as 80 IQ. Edit2: All I'm really trying to say is that I don't think an int 7 character should really be considered retarded. I don't really want to start an argument about IQ, so maybe its best if everyone ignores all but the previous sentence. :)
Wargamer 04-24-06, 09:29 AM	I started with an Int 8 Paladin... my solution was to go for a "what would [Bahamut in your case] do?" approach. In short, your Paladin doesn't think for himself, he just tries to follow the "advise" of religious texts. He isn't good at thinking outside the box, and just goes through life with the "I must be right because Bahamut is on my side" ethos.
Azezel 04-24-06, 11:38 AM	Think back to when you were is school - chances are you know (or at least knew of) someone with an INT of 7 or so. Not the stupidest kid in the school, but the guy a rung or two above him. He was in the basics classes. He didn't like maths or reading. He certainly was not retarded (though I daresay lots of people called him that), just less apt than most people. Think of him as your role model.
malignor 04-24-06, 11:55 AM	Carry scrolls with all manner of subjects. Refer to them often. ... and I think Goku is smarter than you might think. He just has the education of a turnip.
Dragonsblood 04-24-06, 05:07 PM	I like the idea of a non-spellcasting paladin, but it seems like it was implemented significantly weaker than a regular paladin -- and regular paladins are already a slightly weak class (I don't think they need to be made stronger, but they're on the slightly weak-ish side by D&D standards). It depends on how your party does stats. I'm playing a paladin right now with a 42 PB equivilant because I rolled really well and with all of his class features he's a much greater asset to the party than a fighter or barbarian with 42 PB. Not only can I dish out melee damage, but I can backup heal (LoH and wand), use divine items and soon divine magic, soon I'll be able to turn undead, I'm immune to lots of things, and I have great saves, HP, and AC. I suppose if you go crazy with suppliments they would be considered weak because of the powercreep of suppliments. My group does core only.
terrainmonkey 04-24-06, 08:56 PM	str:15 2 dex:12 1 con: 20 5 Int: 7 -2 Wis: 9 -1 Cha: 16 3 this is what you originally rolled: 13, 12, 18, 9, 9, 16 this is where you put them before the lizardfolk racial abilities were added: str 13, dx 12, con 18, int 9, wis 9, cha 16. you have a +5 Natural armor bonus. Dex is unneccessary so put the 9 in that, and the 13 in int. or, 16. here's why. let's say you did this with your stats: Str: 12 Dex: 9 Con: 9 int:16 wis: 13 cha 18 your final stats with racial abilities would be this: s: 14 2 Dex 9 -1 Con: 11 0 Int: 14 2 Wis 13 1 Cha 18 4 you need wisdom and charisma. int is good for skills. 7 int gives you maybe 1 skill point per level. this sucks ass. wisdom gives you spells. and you can always add 1 at 4th level to give you 4th level spells. that's all you need because that is the highest level of spell you can cast. charisma is good for smites, healing, turning undead, and a host of diplomacy skill rolls. i don't go as a paladin unless i have a 17 or greater Cha. it's not worth it at all. you start with 2 levels of humanoid. which gives you your bonus hit points at 1st level, and with a d10, you should be okay after that. you don't need a high con bonus. like i said earlier, dex is unneccessary because of your +5 NAB. you don't need a dex bonus, so there's your dump stat. so, you went from a +8 total modifier to a +9 total stat mod. while not infinitely better, you come out with more +'s than -'s. That's always a better thing in my book. Also, don't forget the class skills you get for being a lizardman. 5x int mod on three skills isn't a bad thing at all. remember you also get racial modifers to the rolls you get for racial class skills +4 for each one. all this for a happy dandy LA of +1. not too shabby. hope this helps. oh, and if you are thinking of going with a paladin of bahamut, think about the platinum knight PrC.
The_Shaman 04-24-06, 09:32 PM	Well, given that 13 intelligence is quite intelligent, but not exactly genius, 7 intelligence should be someone a bit dumb, but not an idiot. I am playing a sorcerer and my familiar should have an intelligence of 6 or 7. My idea about it? Have it on the intellectual level of a first- or second-grader. It doesn't get complex concepts, and it does not catch on quickly. That doesn't mean it won't have a strong sense of purpose or that it will lack common sense, though.
Bulletproof_Condom 04-24-06, 11:11 PM	Int 7 is about Forrest Gump level. It's not quite "DING Fries are done!" " 'I'm not a smart man... but I know what a zombie is.' I pull my holy symbol and turn it." You'll be fine.
Edwind 04-25-06, 01:44 AM	Thanks for the input on how I could possible play my character, I'm not too fond of the Forest Gump idea cause, I've seen the movie and I don't think I would want my Lizardfolk to act like that...The 1st/2nd grader idea appealled to me, and I've began to flesh out his personality. What terrainmonkey said makes alot of sence, but I don't think I could do it like that. I've been known to put highest stat into the classes most used, but I've started to get out of that habbit, due to the fact I could just get a magic item or more stats every 4th, I feel I should share the wealth with my other abilities. The reason I went with the stat choice I went with was because of how the campaign will be about. I probably should have mentioned this before but...7 Int here. The campaign is based in an evil world. Mostly LE,NE,CE,LN,NN,CN. Rarely any good of any kind. Appearently from what my DM has given me for the whole story with the game was the evil gods have banished or surpressed the good ones, their temples sacked and razed, and nothing but ruins of them are left. So its pretty much Resident Evil style, where everythings either out to kill us or just doesn't care and I guess I've made it my side mission to try and find these ruined temples and rebuild and bring the good gods back. Thats what I've been told whats going on so far in the game, but now for what I have planned for my character. I may or may not have stated it but hes level 5. I plan on going Sword of the Rightious for the +4 skill points and the exalted feats every level. Once I've mowed through that I actually plan on going Vessle of Buhumat. I already have the 5 ranks in Diplomacy and the +2 skill points from SoR will get my armorsmithing to where it needs to be. His stats are how they are due to his background. When he was born and matured the elders realized he was a bit slow, and during one of their moments to "cull the weak" from their ranks he was attacked by three of his tribesmen and won (20 CON FTW!) When they started to attack others he stood up for a small Poison Dusk (another PC) He fended them off and they became quick allies. Brains and Brawns type of thing. So after they showed they were able to live within the tribe they were pretty much left alone and My character helped every once and awhile with hunting trips, although his slow mind didn't catch on too fast to the tricks and methods of how they hunted. He stumbled across a ruined temple (of Buhumat) and explored inside where he came across a wall carving of a huge battle, Buhumat in the clouds, sun shining behind him commanding a great army charging towards an equal ifnot greater army lead by a five headed dragon on a mountain. After seeing this he got a vision from Buhumat but I haven't figured out what he told him, I may leave that up to my DM. So those were his first steps in becoming a paladin.
Yabanjin 04-25-06, 02:24 AM	I'd say, play that Paladin real-quiet-like... . Think spagetti Western. With a bad script. on a side note: Int 7 is about Forrest Gump level. It's not quite "DING Fries are done!" " 'I'm not a smart man... but I know what a zombie is.' I pull my holy symbol and turn it." You'll be fine. That's too damn funny! Smiter is as smiter does... (alright, that's pretty lame, but it's late and that's all I got right now - maybe I'll edit it later... :cool: )
Nyaz 04-25-06, 10:46 AM	But INT 7 is a strength in roleplaying a paladin, if you think about it: Rogue: (to DM): I look around at the fallen corpses and start digging through their pockets. Paladin: Hey, what's Rogue doing? DM: You see him turn each of the bodies and rummage through their possessions, removing items of value. It is clear to you that he is trying to find a clue to the identity of these characters and why they attacked your party.