Post/Author/DateTime	Post
unusualsuspect 05-07-05, 02:10 AM	Evenin', lads and ladies. I come for advice, not slavation... Our party is in a bit of a tight spot right now. Injured and partially split up (except for me the monk, yay for Evasion!), our group has finally forced its way into the main chamber of the evil (and supposedly paedophilic, incidentally) wizard who has been doing some unnatural testing of a new source of magic (Shadow Weave). In the main chamber, calm as can be, stands the wizard... with 17 lines of energy arcing to 15 separate children (children that have been abducted recently from a nearby village) and 2 missing party members (thats what you get for missing a session... *evil grin*. After an explanation that the lives of all his captives were in his power, the wizard dropped a child as a show of force. We started to move towards the child (dead or unconscious, we don't know), but were stopped short by a caution.. move, and the captives die. With an even MORE evil grin, he explains he needs 2 volunteers from the party to become a part of the spell so he can finish it. And so the session ended. As a character, I feel like I'm in a terrible, terrible position. First, I'm a Lawful Good monk, though the lawful is more 'discipline' and 'personal rules of behavior' then following any particular law of a land. As a character, I seem to have two choices: Volunteer myself, hoping the spell doesn't kill us all and we have another chance later to kill the wizard, OR go straight for the wizard and count the children and, yes, even the captured party members as a necessary sacrifice for the destruction of a horrible evil. Here comes the dilemma... my monk is pulled both ways, and seems damned whichever way he goes. If he volunteers, and the wizard escapes to wreck havok on a town, the loss of life would be horrible... and my monk would be partially responsible. Even if he volunteers, there is no guarantee that my monk (or the other captives) would survive the spell anyway... its difficult to destroy the evil you help make if you're stuck in the afterlife, neh? However, its not an easy decision to potentially provoke the wizard to possibly kill all 15 innocent children and 2 valuable companions, one of which I feel particularly protective of (A TN druid/sorc). Evil should not be allowed to escape... but can I stand the deaths of all those innocents and captives in order for the job to get done? I'm having a hard time making a decision. All input is not only welcome, but sincerely appreciated. Thanks in advance!
stealth_monkey 05-07-05, 03:00 AM	Hmm, is the line of power still connected to the dead child?. If the line of power isn't connected to the dead kid, then its reasonably safe to assume that he requires the children alive for his ritual (and incidently- he needs three of you now). In this case, I'd say its time to put the dice away for a bit of old fashioned fast talk. If the ritual doesn't seem to be affected by the death of the child, then you're in a rather tough place i'd admit. Also a factor is the campaign level- is the wizard going to be powerful enough to simply teleport out of the room once the ritual is complete or does he have to go through you guys first?
rhflyweyr 05-07-05, 08:06 AM	As a monk I assume you are not exalted or a stupid good paladin type... if you are then you have to kill the evil, now no question, no matter the sacrifice. If I am right in my assumption then, although it really is up to you, your interest in saving the others is probably the overriding motivation. Likely, you will agree to help him to save your party, but you will want to discuss with him the terms and what safeguards you have that he will let them survive. If he wont talk it over... then it is safe to assume they are all doomed anyway so might as well flurry his lass to the ground.
Yruc 05-07-05, 09:08 AM	sense motive? tough situation, but I'd have to go for the BBEG. Any loss of life would be tragic, but to "help" evil would be worse in my opinion. You and your group stand between the BBEG doing something this bad or worse next time you catch up to him if you let yourself become part of the ritual. best of luck. let us know how it goes.
gavalicks 05-07-05, 10:51 AM	I don't know what back up interms of items or other characters, but if you place a silence spell on him, then he can't kill them because effectivly all his magic is taken away. You being a monk can easly reach him and kill him. But the other way if you can reach him with a move action attempt to move and trip then beat him to a pulp. The problem is he might have a ready action such that if any make a move shoot a spell. Yes it is a problem, but at this point greatest good for the greatest number, if they kill a kid use raise dead (although I don't know if you can go from 0lvl fighter to -1lvl fighter or if that is possible), or resurection no big deal. Law dictates that the sorrows of a few get lost to the joys of the many that is politics. Besides you can always lie and said they were dead before you got there, the parents may not like it but will accept it.
Torack 05-07-05, 12:08 PM	First off, I'd discuss it with the other players, form a plan and a back-up plan and then put these in front of your DM. Personally, if I were a lawful good non-paladinish type, I'd only sacrifice myself, if I knew the rest of the party had a way to get me back(i.e. when the wizard's got his back turned on them.) Otherwise, I'd simply blast him out of existance and hope the damages are minimal. Evil should only be allowed the illusion of triumph, never to actually grasp it.
MT-296 "Dagger" 05-07-05, 01:14 PM	A tough question, What seems to be the alignment of the Wizard? If LE you can possibly bind him into a promise, If NE OR CE, He is going to blast your whole party anyway, So take him down, This may sound harsh, but sometimes the deaths of a few are needed to save many. Take the bugger to the abyss with you
Merestil Haye 05-07-05, 01:19 PM	I would plan on taking the BBEG down. If any of the children die, sell some of his wealth for diamonds and spellcasters to raise or resurrect them.
Gurv 05-07-05, 02:34 PM	I would plan on taking the BBEG down. If any of the children die, sell some of his wealth for diamonds and spellcasters to raise or resurrect them. Easier said than done. What HD and Con scores do you suppose children have? The death of a child in D&D is pretty harsh, because they generally lose out badly even when life restoring magic is available. I think this is the first time I have seen an alignment dilemma that made sense. I would also go with the choice that seems to sacrifice as few others as possible. Although the ritual might kill you and the children anyway, it is a better chance than letting them die automatically. At least this way, they have a hope.
SBMC 05-07-05, 04:28 PM	I'd say that the greatest good for the greatest number should be the rule here. The kids might die; but how many are left in that town that are alive? Twice, a hundred times that number? You know the guy is evil and will not stop whatever it is he is doing (which may include more such rituals). Thus I would say jsut charge the guy and kill him and hope for the best. If you sacrifice three of your number in the "hopes" of thigns turnign out alright that is perhaps 3 less to take that wizard down once the spell is done; and honestly; what is the likelyhood that the bad guy here is going to be all nice and freindly after the fact? He is using kids! No chance! Someone above noted you might be able to lock him into a bargain of sorts if he is LE; I would question the DM if this guy is LE. I don't see a LE character doing something like this to kids. They are afterall tyrants mostly and not animals. THis wizard should be CE. In any event think about what the chances are for that town if you assist this bad guy? Verus taking him down now?
unusualsuspect 05-07-05, 05:27 PM	Alrighty, just so you guys have all the information: We don't know if the child is dead. We DO know it isn't moving. And no, the line no longer connects to the child. I try not to play lawful stupid or stupid good, but I AM somewhat new to D&D, and the minutia of alignment are still a bit above me. As is, I'm probably playing naive good and/or lawful naive if anything. I do not know what alignment the wizard most likely is. We know A) he's a pedophile, and B) that he's been researching the Shadow Weave. We also know that he requires a certain number of victims for his spell to work... when the child dropped, he asked for a second volunteer over the 1 volunteer he initially asked for. We do have a paladin in our group as well, and the DM seems to be dropping hints that he should weild his "walking stick" (quarterstaff), as if his God were speaking to him. In all likelihood, a rush on the BBEG will end up happening anyway. At the moment, unless I get any better advice, I'll RP my monk as being torn between ideals (Destroy evil no matter what the cost) vs. sacrificing lives I shouldn't have power over (The lives of the children and other PCs). If the paladin charges, I'll join the fray... Most wizards'll have a tough time against 2 separate characters with high saves.
Captain Casualty 05-07-05, 05:36 PM	A tough question, What seems to be the alignment of the Wizard? If LE you can possibly bind him into a promise, If NE OR CE, He is going to blast your whole party anyway, So take him down, This may sound harsh, but sometimes the deaths of a few are needed to save many. Take the bugger to the abyss with you What this seems to analyze out as is a 3 to 1 chance that if you do what he says then he just laughs at you. This seems to be a variant on prisoners dilemma and frankly it only works if you trust the other player. My Suggestion? As above, kill the fragger. You do not know if this ritual will kill the kids or not and frankly are you going to trust this guys assertion that it wont? Any assertion that disrupting the ritual will kill them should be equally cynically assessed. In terms of the moral dillema about deciding others peoples lives - its not you. The Evil guy is doing that not you. You are no more responsible than if you watched a car mow somebody down (presumably not driving it at the time :embarrass ).
stealth_monkey 05-07-05, 11:20 PM	We also know that he requires a certain number of victims for his spell to work... when the child dropped, he asked for a second volunteer over the 1 volunteer he initially asked for. In that case i'd probably call his bluff: there's no way he's going to kill all of the kids and thus have a very angry monk on his hands without whatever superpowers he was going to get from the ritual
Loren Pechtel 05-07-05, 11:47 PM	Attack. Someone should close on him but instead of attacking ready an action to attack if he tries to cast anything. My take on this: 1) If he's fighting for his life he's unlikely to take time out to do anything about his hostages. 2) I see no reason to think he's going to let you live if you cooperate. He's got no reason to let you live and every reason not to. 3) If you have spellcasting available my first choice would be AMF (remember, he's a spellcaster also, getting up next to him won't be all that dangerous), my second dispel magic and silence would be my third.
PhaedrusXY 05-08-05, 12:19 AM	Kill him, and Atone later if you feel the need. You didn't put the kids in the cages, and you won't be the one killing them. This is exactly like a real-life hostage/terrorist situation, and in most cases the authorities only bargain with the kidnappers as a ploy to buy time and set up an attack on them. I think in general the "we don't bargain with terrorists" approach is probably the best. Better to deal with the "evil" now, than strengthen it and have to deal with it later.
J.B. 05-08-05, 12:52 AM	What you need to do is trap him in an "Antimagic Field", and then kill him. If that isn't possible perhaps you can nail him with a "Feeblemind" spell. You still haven't mentioned what level your party is.
Kenohki 05-08-05, 10:43 AM	Shoot the hostage!
Leobardis 05-08-05, 05:30 PM	So..., the BBEG dropped one of the hostages and threatened the life of the others if you made a move. I think you made the assumption that he could drop all of them at once. If you rush him, he may get to drop one more, member or child, but it's unlikely that he can drop them all the same time. Once you're in combat with him, depending on how long it take you to take him out, he'll most likely defend himself and (hopefully) won't be able to take out another hostage at the same time. Possible best case senario, you lose one more hostage but the BBEG dies. Of course if you have a caster that is still free, you could try a dispel magic or similar spell. Don't know if it'd work though.
unusualsuspect 05-08-05, 07:30 PM	End of the predicament! For the record, The highest level characters were the dwarven fighter and I, at lvl 5. Our druid proved himself to be more then just the healing battery and dismal archer he'd shown himself to be before. Somehow, the druid (one of the captured party members) managed to wreste control over the binding spell placed on all the captives, thereby freeing the enterting party members (and the bound centaur PC) to attack the now distracted and befuddled wizard. Our dwarven fighter goes first, hitting a glancing blow with his axe. The rest of the party followed suit, some more successfully than others. The wizard's response? He casted a spell that made Tensers Transformation and Barbarian Rage combined look like the strength of a wet noodle. Shifting into some non-human, shadow-like hulking mass of muscle, the wizard proceeds to set his attention on the Dwarf and, with 2 fricking UNARMED STRIKES, manages to knock 40+ HP off the dwarf and drop him to -9 HP. Only through DM intervention and the druid manipulating the spell he was controlling did the dwarf survive and not bleed to death. Without a lucky crit by the centaur PC, I have a feeling a few of our party might have needed to roll up a few new sheets... So, end result: Children saved, except for one. Druid collapsed out of exhaustion, but your friendly neightborhood monk (who, sadly, did little more then provide flanking bonuses to his allies and GET TRIPPED BY A MONKEY, which I'll never live down) slapped him awake and got the healing battery to work healing the downed fighter back into consciousness. I was tempted to keep him under longer, but we have a paladin in the group, and that might get messy.