Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paradisio 08-14-05, 11:16 PM	Well the Fighter in the party has started becoming excessively evil, a problem for me when I am trying to build up an exalted druid. Long story short, half the party was unconscious for about a day, and he wanted to take the time and castrate them... for no reason. I am serious, they have done absolutely nothing to this guy in the slightest, in fact if anything he deserves to be castrated for the actions he has taken towards them. I can't send him to the autorities, as he always does this away from the cities and I don't really have substantial evidence for him. I stopped him from castrating them, and then he wanted to shave them naked, and then he started taking their gold. He wouldn't stop, so I made him. I can definitly forsee him becoming a greater drain on the party in the future, and I definitly think my character wouldn't consort with this felon and criminal. I can only think of one thing to do, stop him permanently. What would you do?
Raxor 08-14-05, 11:19 PM	What level(s) are you both?
Rathje 08-14-05, 11:32 PM	Talk to the player and your DM. In that order. If the player won't change, then you bring it up with your DM. Is this a good or evil campaign? Is he helping you at all? Is your DM opposed to characters killing character? Is your DM opposed to the entire party turning on one character after finding out he robbed them and considered castrating and shaving them? Is your DM willing to kill the character himself? *Cough* Is your DM opposed to players killing players? If all else fails, kick him in the junk. Do it In Character, then do it Out Of Character so the player can "properly role-play it."
Paradisio 08-14-05, 11:34 PM	He is level 7, I am 6 (we will be equal soon.) The DM refuses to solve any in-character issues. Is he helping me? Only by helping kill the things we kill. The camaign is mostly neutral.
ShadowDragon8685 08-15-05, 12:20 AM	Drown him. It's the only way. Summon the forces of nature (read: Dire Crocodile) to grab him and drag him beneath the water, where your plant-based tentacles will hold him down until his lungs fill up with water and his struggles cease. Only then will his depredations towards your other party members be no more.
Raxor 08-15-05, 12:28 AM	Talk with the other player first. Let him know what direction you're wanting to take your character in. If that player says, "Too bad, I want to roleplay this character the way I have been," then show the fighter what a b**** Mother Nature really CAN be and do away with him. When the player complains that you killed off his character, tell him you warned him. If the campaign's neutral, the DM shouldn't do anything about it short of telling the other player to roll up a new character.
Paradisio 08-15-05, 12:39 AM	I should probably also post all this players characters generally act like crazed homocidal (and often pyromania) psychos. I don't think he has ever not played an evil character. In the previous campaign (over a year), I think he killed off roughly 30 PCs. He killed one of my characters off once after I just joined 5 minutes before because I was talking to a person of a race he didn't like, which is quite bad considering each time we died (for any reason) we came back with half experience. At one point there was a level 11 in the party, and I was level 1.
ShadowDragon8685 08-15-05, 12:43 AM	Shoot your DM. In the face. With. A. Hammer. Seriously, if your DM is letting him do all this 'because he refuses to get involved in IC disputes' then you need to find another game. Or drown the DM AND the offending player, but I think the cops might have issue with that.
Vexsom 08-15-05, 12:45 AM	When he's asleep or in a situation that involves his complete attention, say something cleaver like: "for the sake of all who you have desecrated, I smite thee!" you know, something tasteful and heroic or something, unless you hate quotes... anyway... then... Rabidly attack him? In a fight, debiletate him using magic so your foes can kill him or in his sleep, coupe de grace him. This is divine retribution, you are a vigelante, this is your justice! As a lawful good character, you must smite those whom are vile! Though, this is coming from the perspective of someone who has played an obease dwarven fighter who would eat small children in broad daylight amidst a populate town.
Paradisio 08-15-05, 12:47 AM	Shadow dragon, been hearing that since my very first post here, but I have yet to find another campaign to join (and I have posted in the classifieds and on other such site.) So I just have to stick with it. Where is this dire crocodile? Do you mean giant crocodile? I don't think I get that until level 7 unfortunately. I should have my ring of speak with animals soon, so that should help out quite a bit for his eventual demise. But at the same time I fear me dying and then him using it for perversion.
ShadowDragon8685 08-15-05, 12:56 AM	You're at level 6. That means you have Summon Nature's Ally III. That means you can spontainously pop out 1d3 Crocodiles per round. The ordinary variety is plenty. Or you can ask your DM to let you apply the Dire template to a normal croc, and add it to the SNA3 list.
Paradisio 08-15-05, 12:59 AM	Heh, isn't the dire template 3.0? I hate to reinforce your hate of my DM.... he doesn't allow any 3.0 material, at all. He says it is incompatible and requires too much updating to work with 3.5 for him to use. Let us get this out of the way as well; no psionics, no miniatures handbook, no campaign specific books, and no BOVD (he can use it but not us.)
Vexsom 08-15-05, 01:00 AM	Heh, isn't the dire template 3.0? I hate to reinforce your hate of my DM.... he doesn't allow any 3.0 material, at all. He says it is incompatible and requires too much updating to work with 3.5 for him to use. There is a dire template in 3.5 too >.>
Raxor 08-15-05, 01:04 AM	You're at level 6. That means you have Summon Nature's Ally III. That means you can spontainously pop out 1d3 Crocodiles per round. The ordinary variety is plenty. Or you can ask your DM to let you apply the Dire template to a normal croc, and add it to the SNA3 list. And you can cast another 3rd level spell (and one of my favorites), Call Lightning. Wait for stormy conditions and roll the d10s like there's no tomorrow while he fights off the crocodiles.
20goingon1232 08-15-05, 01:08 AM	You are a druid? At level 6? I don't see a problem..... Wildshape + Entangle + Call Lightning is your friend.....
Paradisio 08-15-05, 01:09 AM	The only dire template I can find is the one in tome of horrors, a 3rd party supplement that was erratad... No dice, he only uses first party stuff. No dragon/dungeon magazine either. Even if he did allow the template, that would mean I could no longer shape into dire animals since you can't wildshape into templated creatures. Also he wouldn't allow me to summon them either.
ShadowDragon8685 08-15-05, 01:12 AM	You can also try Wildshaping into a Dire Wolf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direWolf.htm). That bonus to trip attacks is nasty, and every shot you get in through his AC becomes a free Trip attack. Not to mention you can just Wildshape, tear his throat out in the night, and run off... Also, by the miracle process of Extrapolation, extrapolating the Dire Wolf from the Wolf, we can determine two things. The first is the effect of the Dire template. The second is that WotC ignores ability bonuses at every 4th hit die for it's monsters. Players, exploit this. Stats: Dire Wolf: Str 25, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10 PlainWolf: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 Difference:STR+12 DEX +0 CON +2 INT +0 WIS+0 CHA +4 This is the only apparent difference between a Dire Wolf and a regular Wolf that is not present due to the four HD a Dire Wolf has over a regular Wolf..... On second notice, scratch that. The Dire Ape's stats are completely different. It only has +1 STR from a regular Ape. They didn't codify the Dire template. You're boned.
Paradisio 08-15-05, 01:30 AM	Well, I wouldn't say I'm boned, I got plenty of other ideas. I like D3 Crocs +water +entange +call lightning idea ;p
Disco 08-15-05, 01:53 AM	This is actually a serious problem that comes up in DnD from time to time (and in our Shadowrun games a lot). Everyone wants to play a badass, but then what of the other characters who are good? They wont want an ******* hanging around, end of story. The way I see it, you need to role play your druid. I'm playing a druid, this is how mine would act Firstly, is he evil or just neutral and weird? If he is evil, I would kill him. I am NG, and I believe that evil things should die. If he is not too bad, but does these weird things, than next town I would tell him that the group and him are going to go their seperate ways. Don't worry about the player, he is causing the problem, just concentrate on what you would do. Also, talk to the rest of the people in your party, if you cause a party split, they might align with him you never know. In which case, I would take him out, the same way an old wolf would take out a large young one before he could challange his power. It's all about nature.
Paradisio 08-15-05, 02:06 AM	Parting ways means me having to create a lower level character unfortunately, making me the lowest in the party (and nice and easy for him to kill.) The party pretty much boots out the one who wants to split up things, regardless of reasons or if that player was helping the party. His character is evil, but I don't have any detect alignment abilities/spells. But he certainly acts in all ways evil, and I have only seen him commit one good act since the campaign started, which saved a party member. I really only see one in game and out of game option for me to keep playing the character and sticking with the party, and that is him leaving and not me. This seems to happen a lot, in the last campaign I had to make about 4 characters retire because of paths the party wanted to take but I did not.
Sapp 08-15-05, 02:14 AM	I should probably also post all this players characters generally act like crazed homocidal (and often pyromania) psychos. I don't think he has ever not played an evil character. In the previous campaign (over a year), I think he killed off roughly 30 PCs. He killed one of my characters off once after I just joined 5 minutes before because I was talking to a person of a race he didn't like, which is quite bad considering each time we died (for any reason) we came back with half experience. At one point there was a level 11 in the party, and I was level 1. God... You're more of a saint than your character. Screw the exalted feat requirements, you should demand saint status/template. How could you actually stand this player and this DM? You start at half experience whenever you die?! For any reason?! So if you die at level 20, you start at level 10. WOW. That must have been SO incredibly frustrating with a murderer in the party. In might be slightly out of character to simply kill him. If I were in the situation, and if I weren't playing an exalted character, I'd definitely kill him. However, you're exalted, and even though he's definitely evil, he hasn't really done anything (you stopped him every time before he could). I'd suggest you incapacitate him. He's a fighter, so try to steal... I mean... "confiscate" his items while he's asleep. Convince the rest of the party that you guys don't need him anymore. I'm sure they'll agree since he's too dangerous to keep around (unless they don't value their balls). Toss him out. That seems like something an exalted character might do. He can't do as much harm without his items, and I'm sure the DM won't want to run two separate campaigns just because this guy isn't able to cooperate with the rest of the team, so he'll just have to re-roll another character... hopefully not chaotic stupid or stupid evil this time.
WizardlyFriend 08-15-05, 02:17 AM	turn evil or kill him. i can't think of any other solutions. let him do something bad and then unite the other party members against him. beat him then tie him up and interrogate him for awhile (about hwatever) then beat him again and interrogate him threatening to do soemthing horrible. then get 20 badgers and put them in a pen that is roughly 5 by 5. drop him a couple feet onto them forcing them into a rage that will ultimately kill him... very painfully... with badgers... badgers are effing insane
HappyDragon 08-15-05, 03:00 AM	Well the Fighter in the party has started becoming excessively evil, a problem for me when I am trying to build up an exalted druid. Long story short, half the party was unconscious for about a day, and he wanted to take the time and castrate them... for no reason. I am serious, they have done absolutely nothing to this guy in the slightest, in fact if anything he deserves to be castrated for the actions he has taken towards them. This character isn't evil at all, he's just plain nuts. Have you talked to the other players in the group IG and described what this guy wanted to do to them. If I heard stuff like that going down I would have absolutely no qualms about dealing with it IG. See how the rest of players feel about it and get rid of this guy. It is unfortunate that your DM wont help out with things a bit, to maybe act as a more objective mediator as there may be things about the player in question that the rest of the PC's may not know about, and could help ease people's concerns.
Paradisio 08-15-05, 03:17 AM	Problem is, if I unequip him and get rid of his gear I have to deal with him to assassinating me when he gets watch (a coup-de grace while sleeping in this campaign is pretty much an instant kill, regardless if the player could survive the critical.) And I can't really be effective in combat without both me and my companion. I guess I could go on watch with him, but I have a feeling he might try to convince the other party members to go against me, since they are all much better friends with each other out of game than I am. I am just trying to deal with a moral quandry and still feel safe without killing needlessly.
Brashnir 08-15-05, 03:30 AM	Stop playing with these people. As bad as the player is, your DM is worse. Life goes on without D&D. It's not worth dealing with crap like that.
ShadowDragon8685 08-15-05, 03:31 AM	I'll say it again. Find another game. Try online gaming, like openRPG or something.
Cymraegmorgan 08-15-05, 03:38 AM	Shadow dragon, been hearing that since my very first post here, but I have yet to find another campaign to join (and I have posted in the classifieds and on other such site.) So I just have to stick with it. You live in Houston Floggin' Texas, one of the largest cities in the South. There has got to be another game. Have you tried the local game store? If I were in your shoes, better no game than gaming with such disturbed individuals. It might rub off on you.
Paradisio 08-15-05, 03:41 AM	We play at a game store... Trust me, I've looked. By the time I find a group looking, they are already full or are interested in older players (and I'm 20), or only want players with 10 years experience in the game. I'm not sure I want to do realtime online gaming, that seems difficult, and If I'm at home, family distracts me often. I was in an e-mail campaign, but progress was so painfully slow, I got bored quickly.
King_Bulba 08-15-05, 04:01 AM	If it's accepted that you can kill PCs then I would kill him at the first chance you get when he is done an evil deed, even if its j walking hehe. If he kills an animal for no reason as a druid or even a tree I would use that as an excuse to kill him in his sleep. I liked the croc idea and drowning him hehe but im sure the party members will hear the crocs and wake up when you start draging him. You have to take it into your own hands since your DM is a dope, im sorry for you since this should never be allowed to happen. Allowing players to be bad = good but allowing players to be chaotic stupid = bad. It sounds like the other players would stick with him because they are closer friends so talking to them might be pointless, though i would try it before stooping to his level, though if a PC tryed to steal from another PC I would kill him on the spot beacuse you can't trust him. I would also train your animal companion to guard you when you sleep. If ANYONE gets near you he makes noise and kicks you lightly to wake you up. If the dope cant get near you then he cant coup-de grace you. BTW ring of sustinace is relativly cheap and makes you only need 2 hours of sleep a night hehe. I have a feeling though that he is an immature player that will take offense and end up trying to kill you in his next charicter for revenge, so your screwed. Maybe if you take a stand and kill anyone who is chaotic stupid then maybe he will stop since you will end up killing him over and over. If the other players side with him and kill you defending the evil dude then im not sure I would want to play with that group but thats me and not you.
murderbike 08-15-05, 04:14 AM	Pay somebody to cast geas/quest on him? Stick a Helm of Opposite Alignment on him while he's asleep? Have a cleric cast heal on him, then tell him he's been cured of his insanity?
Paradisio 08-15-05, 04:31 AM	Actually I forgot, my character doesn't sleep anymore (long story) but I still need my 8 hours for spells/general rest. So I guess I don't have to worry about the coup de grace. But yes, when I find a new group, I will switch. On the up side, every time I kill him, his chance of winning decreases with his new character. Honestly, If I played my cards right, I could probably defeat the entire party quite easily, since after battles they rely on me bonking them with a wand for healing (which they wouldn't help pay for, hmph)... and my character has fast healing.
ishpu 08-15-05, 04:37 AM	buy the guy a helm of opposite allignment ;)
Gedrin 08-15-05, 05:04 AM	Your party wouldn't chip in for healing? Not even for their own healing? That seems bizare by any standard.
King_Bulba 08-15-05, 05:04 AM	buy the guy a helm of opposite allignment ;) WOW I like it, talk to your DM about it after hours, so he doesn't know and give it to him as a gift, make him thing its something else. See if he RPs being good, I bet he still RPs evil because he doesnt know anything else... I have been wrong before, and he could suprise you by being good...
Paradisio 08-15-05, 05:10 AM	It wouldn't matter, trust me. I did something similar before that changed his alignment, he just changed it right back.
Paradisio 08-15-05, 05:15 AM	I think the phrase I hear a lot around here is "chaotic stupid" that very well defines him and at least one other party member (and I don't think they are even chaotic.) They seem to put their own greed before their lives... And seem to count on me to help them at my own monetary losses.
Phrennzy 08-15-05, 10:27 AM	I don't see how you have any fun playing D&D. Every post of yours I can remember has these godawful situations, usually ridiculous actions by lame-ass players. If one of the groups in the gaming shop requires 10 years of experience playing, then lie and say you started when you were 10. "I played AD&D and gosh, wasn't THAC0 crazy?" Get a fake ID to join the group that needs only older players. "Yes, my name is Ezma Farkenstein. Wanna make something of it?" Both of those restrictions are fricking stupid. Start your own group. Don't invite the problem player. There HAS to be another couple of players around there looking for a game.
Sapp 08-15-05, 01:40 PM	That's simply incredible. Not only can you not convince your team to kick the psycho out, he may in fact be able to convince them to kick YOU out... because they are better friends outside the game? Such horrible role-playing. "Yeah, I like that guy... who tried to castrate me... because umm... I know him in an alternate reality... and uh... he's actually a pretty funny guy." Listen. The Book of Exalted Deeds doesn't punish inaction as it does action. Read over it carefully though, just to make sure. I believe the most clear way for you to lose exalted status is by commiting a crime. However, if he's going to castrate your team next time, mitigating factors can be taken in to account. LET him castrate your team. The mitigating factor will be that they might start seeing things your way, kick the fighter out of the party (forcing him to reroll), and save the whole team a lot of pain and trouble. Being castrated should automatically result in a permanent loss of at least 2 charisma unless they regenerate in time (I believe there's a time limit to regenerate). Note: If they still don't kick him out of the party, then castrate them for real, to help them role-play better. It's more believable that their characters would be ****** after being castrated. RIGHT: "The bastard castrated us! I don't know what we were thinking for not doing this earlier! Let's kill him!" WRONG: "Ohoho! The little prankster finally succeeded in castrating us. That little rascal. I wonder what he's going to do next?" When I said take his items, I don't just mean steal his items and leave him like that. I meant to take his items, then tell him to leave the party. A player should be keeping watch at all times any, not necessarily you. But now that I know that his almost equally psycho team might actually side with him, I don't know anymore.
Callista 08-15-05, 03:44 PM	Rabidly attack him? In a fight, debiletate him using magic so your foes can kill him or in his sleep, coupe de grace him. This is divine retribution, you are a vigelante, this is your justice! As a lawful good character, you must smite those whom are vile!He's obviously NG. If he were LG, he wouldn't be a druid anymore... I believe the most clear way for you to lose exalted status is by commiting a crime.No--committing an evil act. Big difference--some crimes are not evil; some evil acts are not crminal. And most CG Exalted characters wouldn't give a rip for the law, anyway. Um, yeah... me=rules lawyer... anyway... You guys need to kick the guy out of your gaming group. If he's playing insane evil after insane evil character, why the heck are you still letting him stay in your group?!
EvilDuck 08-15-05, 04:28 PM	This is a problem with the player: he's a closet sadist who's acting out his perversions in-game because he's too scared to out-of-game. Solution: Your character does to his character what you would do to him IRL if he tried to pull this **** on you: Kick his ass. You're a druid, the most powerful class there is. Cast multiple extended creeping colds on him, then WS into a fleshraker dinosaur and finish him off. Inform him that this is going to happen to him anytime he tries to do anything like this to the party. If he doesn't stop, either have him quit that group or quit that group.
Red_Ninja 08-15-05, 04:47 PM	It seems to me that...it is terribly tempting to terminate him, so... You should...and roleplay it Its about time you played a demented character who's only purpose was to castrate the party!... Gradually have your druid go mad, talking to himself, animals (LOL), trees, etc... do not stop the fighter from castrating the other PCs, or shaving them, or stealing their stuff... "you guys should defend yourself better, survival of the fittest you know- damn, he even took your balls!", eventually have your druid SNAP! and all out attack the fighter, using poison (herbal), crocs, call lightning, animal pals, rabid wererat mercenaries, slavers, and sadomasochistic gay elves! (or whatever you can rustle up), turn your fury to other PCs that come the fighter's aid! (you may want to purchase a necklace fireballs before you attack)...then, when his new character comes, he better treat you nice, cuz a crazy homocidal druid kill half level characters even faster than full level characers... or you could keep you druid NG, and sit there and defend the party and hate your life... EDIT- for clarification
Templetroll 08-15-05, 05:55 PM	If I was playing a game, some guy killed my character and his reason why was because he saw me talking to some who was a race he didn't like I would have taken the clue and gotten outta there! If the others put up with it that is their problem. My advice is for you to run a game, do not even let that sleazoid play, but try to get some of the players from the groups that turned you down to play in your game. Then be serious about giving them a game worth them talking to their buddies about and after that you have a shot at getting into those groups. I think it more likely that you are in the same group as that jerk that makes them say no, more than your age or whatever.
SodaGuy 08-15-05, 06:15 PM	I vote for the lightning and crocodiles because it wouldn't be a totally cool scene.
Nephite 08-15-05, 06:53 PM	Personally, I would stop the game next time the fighter tries to do this. Talk to the DM right then and right there; make sure that he understands that allowing a character to PK because they are "real-life" buddies is crap, explain that the fighter is ruining the game for you, explain that the DMG even goes heavy into detail about how the DM's number one job is MAKING THE GAME FAIR AND FUN (they go hand in hand, typically), all that jazz. Then walk out. Right in the middle of the session. Keep looking, you'll find something, or you can start your own game. But honestly, it sounds like not gaming would be much better than gaming with the piece-of-**** fighter and DM you have. Oh, and make sure you keep your temper. Yelling and screaming will only make them not listen to you.
Disco 08-15-05, 08:41 PM	Everyone is thinking too big. Making a scene isn't going to help anyone. Kill him and claim you were just role playing. Yes, it might cause a rift with all his 'new' characters starting with a grudge against you, but that is worst case scenario and it couldn't be worse than what you're putting up with now.
Milandros 08-15-05, 08:56 PM	How would you deal with this character if it wasn't a PC? If it was an NPC travelling with you? I don't see how you can play an exhaulted character in this guy's company. Exhaulted isn't intended to be "look at the cool abilities I get for Vow of Poverty!!!!", it's that step up from Good alignment. Not Lawful Good, or Neutral Good, or Chaotic Good, but Goodly Good Good Good. Unless you take Vow of Peace as well, then how could you justify allowing this monster to continue his evil ways? In your case, since you seem to be getting so little support from the other players, I'd go a different way - become a true neutral defender of nature, and tell him his actions are up to him. Let him castrate the others - after all, gelding undesireable bloodlines is your way of taking care of the population's long-term health, and this lot are too stupid to be allowed to breed if they go to sleep and put a lunatic psycho who threatens them on watch. Just tell him that as long as he does not threaten the balance of nature, you will take no action against him. After the next night he's on watch, I suspect the other PC's will do your work for you. Screaming their rage in a strangely high-pitched tone.
Sapp 08-15-05, 09:33 PM	Everyone is thinking too big. Making a scene isn't going to help anyone. Kill him and claim you were just role playing. Yes, it might cause a rift with all his 'new' characters starting with a grudge against you, but that is worst case scenario and it couldn't be worse than what you're putting up with now. The problem is, it wouldn't be very good role-playing because he's an exalted druid, and despite what the fighter's player did in previous games, his current character hasn't done anything besides failing an attempt to castrate the group and some other serious offenses, but nothing to justify murder. This is just a personal opinion of course... I guess some people would see this is a justifiable death penalty. I'm just a bit iffy on the "exalted" character dealing the death sentence himself. Out of the game, yes, I agree that that guy is an ass and deserves to have his character killed.
Disco 08-15-05, 11:10 PM	I've only been playing dnd for about a year now, and I'm unfamilar with what you mean by "exalted druid". A normal druid should not have a problem killing him, this all relates back to nature - the lion analogy I used, for example. Hey Paradisio, make sure you keep us informed about what course of action you do take and the results it yields.
Boothbey 08-16-05, 01:06 AM	I like the entangle and crocodiles in the water idea myself. Offer him the: Druidic Ordeal of Water. If he can cross a body of water then the spirits of Nature will have found him worthy and beyond further reproach by you. Make a big deal over a dawn ceremony, say some blessings over the water asking for the guidance of Mother Nature...blah blah blah. Then sneak in the entangle and summon monster spells into your act just before he goes in. :) Just hope he dies. :) Call Lightning would be very cool, but would roast your crocodile buddies...
Sapp 08-16-05, 01:49 AM	I've only been playing dnd for about a year now, and I'm unfamilar with what you mean by "exalted druid". A normal druid should not have a problem killing him, this all relates back to nature - the lion analogy I used, for example. Hey Paradisio, make sure you keep us informed about what course of action you do take and the results it yields. The term "exalted" comes from the Book of Exalted Deads, commonly referred to on the boards as the "BoED". It means beyond "good". An exalted character is slightly above the the kind of good you'd expect from a paladin. They are never expected to do an evil deed. Whereas a paladin may stress over the old "means-to-an-end" dilemma ("do the ends justify the means?"), an exalted character wouldn't. He knows that any evil act is a direct opposal to good in the cosmic balance of the multiverse. It's a concession to the fact that evil is necessary and more potent than good. To an exalted character, the end never justifies the means. He would sooner let an entire world burn than commit an evil act to stop it from occuring. Messed up? Sure... but at least it puts an end to crazy DMs who want to railroad their exalted and paladin PCs into becoming evil blackguards. That's why I am slightly "iffy" on the exalted druid simply killing Mr. Lorena Bobbit. (Though he certainly deserves it.)
Disco 08-16-05, 02:27 AM	...interesting that you can still be exalted and neatural. They sound extremely lawful to me. But point taken.
King_Bulba 08-16-05, 02:56 AM	Leaving is always a last resort, and we dont know if he is at that level yet. If he likes the group generally then like most of us said do what is right for your charicter. BTW how does exalted work with a druid, since druids can be only any nutural. Guess it doesnt require LG but i always see goodie goodies as LG. (I hate LG hehe) I see the N part of your NG as conflicting with being exalted, but guess that doesnt really matter since the rules say different. You could always spare him but strip him of his equipment then sunder it. This way you dont kill him but you teach him for his lesson but i dont see that is NG imo, more LG. A NG druid might see nature in harmony when it is in absence of evil. Since death is part of nature, the druid should have no problem killing, killing out of need or nessessity isnt evil. Another take is that NG druid wants to bring balance between good and evil, since there is more evil out there then its the duty of the druid to kill evil so there is balance. Either way its your duty to KILL evil, if you think he is evil them kill him. Nature can be brutal... There are many differing opinions on what NG means, if we had yours then we could probally help you a little more. How do you guys eat and drink btw? Do you go on long trips? If you do then try to take away his food, summon vermin when they sleep and have them eat all the food and water in the camp, if the evil dude has a bag have the rats eat through it, all contents in a bag of holding dissapear hehe. Talk to your DM about it so he starts keeping track about food and water and say that you plan to not feed him. If your party starts sharing food and water with him then stop feeding them too untill they are starving too and cant afford to split water... It isnt pretty but it is a passive way to weaken and kill him, slowly, what 3 days and you die without water =). I still like the idea of killing him outright though...
King_Bulba 08-16-05, 03:17 AM	The problem is, it wouldn't be very good role-playing because he's an exalted druid, and despite what the fighter's player did in previous games, his current character hasn't done anything besides failing an attempt to castrate the group and some other serious offenses, but nothing to justify murder. This is just a personal opinion of course... I guess some people would see this is a justifiable death penalty. I'm just a bit iffy on the "exalted" character dealing the death sentence himself. This comes down to how you invision what NG means as a druid, he isnt LG but NG. If you have a differnet opinion than me about NG then dont listen to me hehe. Trying to justify a punishment doesnt seem N to me but L. It is your duty as a druid is to bring balance or harmony in nature by killing evil. Being an exalted NG means that you will kill evil all the more. If you think this guy is evil then it is your job to kill him to bring more balance to nature. It isnt about the law or what is fair but about creating balance or harmony in nature. Stealing isnt nessisarly evil but trying to castrate people for no reason is soooo evil. Be NG and create more balance or harmony by killing him.
Sapp 08-16-05, 12:08 PM	Well... my opinion isn't fact, but I think that when most people think of Neutral Good they see a character who: - Does good for the sake of good. - Isn't opposed to order (like chaos is) - Sees order/law as a means to an end, but not an evil one. It's not absolutely necessary, but it does help enforce goodness, sometimes. - Supports the law if it fits with his/her moral code. - Isn't opposed to breaking the law if it conflicts with his/her moral code. The thing about neutral is that I see two kinds of neutral. One is a passive (weak) kind, where the character simply doesn't have strong feelings towards law and chaos. The other is an active (strong) neutral, where the character will actively try to set balance between law and chaos, and will often see faults in both. - Does good for the sake of good. - Will stress on the negative effects of strict law, such as the loss of individuality, self-sufficiency, creativity, etc... - Will stress on the negative effects of chaos and intemperance, such as lack of discipline or goals, etc... - Might even help union workers (by feeding them?) with strike if they are being screwed over by their company. In both cases, "only for the sake of good" is the main factor. A chaotic good character, who doesn't trust the law to be fair and wise and support the weak, would rely on the fact that every situation is different, and a single set of laws or strict codes isn't enough to maintain goodness. A lawful good character who believes temperance and order are the correct ways for good to be maintained. You're right though. It does sound like Lawful Good would be more common for exalted, because exalted characters follow one of the strictest codes. In case case, I believe the exalted status overrides the lawful/chaotic axis. Regardless of his other axis, he will not commit an evil act. That's my take on it anyway. I don't see how "wanting to maintain balance between the forces of law and chaos in society/world/cosmos" should equate to "I must kill this psycho in my party". Regardless of how random the fighter's actions are... they're probably not upsetting the balance of nature to the point where an exalted druid would kill him in complete opposition of his moral code. That's just me though. Ask your DM what his take on "exalted" is. If he allows it, then celebrate after killing the fighter.
Sapp 08-16-05, 12:24 PM	This comes down to how you invision what NG means as a druid, he isnt LG but NG. If you have a differnet opinion than me about NG then dont listen to me hehe. Trying to justify a punishment doesnt seem N to me but L. Actually, the neutral good exalted druid would still only use killing as a LAST resort. In fact, I don't think they'd kill. From what I understand from the BoED, exalted characters almost kill exclusively in self-defense or in defense of another. They never intentionally, actively kill. The druid would sooner try to teach the fighter the error of his ways for a few weeks before just jumping to the conclusion that the fighter needs to die. I know it's very hard for some of us to accept because "exalted" is so difficult to roleplay, but just try for a second. Try to let go of our current "common sense" moral code, and adopt the "exalted moral code" as described in the BoED. Killing, as a means to an end (the end being to save the party from further harassment), is never a solution. That's admitting that evil is absolutely necessary and sometimes there's no other alternative. You and I might believe that (and yes, I probably do believe that in real life), but an exalted character is extremely stubborn on that. It is your duty as a druid is to bring balance or harmony in nature by killing evil. Being an exalted NG means that you will kill evil all the more. If you think this guy is evil then it is your job to kill him to bring more balance to nature. It isnt about the law or what is fair but about creating balance or harmony in nature. Stealing isnt nessisarly evil but trying to castrate people for no reason is soooo evil. Be NG and create more balance or harmony by killing him. I hate defending this guy, and feel like an ass doing so, so please don't make this so much harder for me. Haha. Being NG does NOT mean you can go on a personal crusade to wipe out all who disrupt balance. Killing is never the first answer. It's the last. That's why a lot of an exalted character's abilities/Feats (Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace, Subdual Substitution) revolve around incapacitating the opponent, but not killing him. I would argue that the NG exalted character has an even harder time to deal with the situation than a LG exalted character. At least the LG guy can rely on the law to deal with this guy. The NG doesn't trust the law as much. That's why I suggested stripping the fighter naked, and kicking him out of the party. Your justification would be that he probably won't die (he's a resourceful guy), but he'll be "enlightened" by this test of survival, and might gain some respect for nature. After all, it did wonders for you, the exalted druid. I shamelessly admit that I have no idea what would be appropriate for a CG character do in this situation. However, they might just do what a LG guy does, just for once. They just don't have to follow a strict set of methods to deal with every criminal (sending them to prison). You could always spare him but strip him of his equipment then sunder it. This way you dont kill him but you teach him for his lesson but i dont see that is NG imo, more LG. A NG druid might see nature in harmony when it is in absence of evil. Since death is part of nature, the druid should have no problem killing, killing out of need or nessessity isnt evil. That's what I was thinking: stripping him and ... well... not sundering his equipment, but donating it to charity (think of all the homeless it could feed) or funding a community project to build a park in a metropolitan area (teach the community of the beauty of nature). It's perfectly an Exalted NG good thing to do. You're sparing the guy from death. Also, "ridding the balance of nature by getting rid of evil!" doesn't necessarily mean you KILL evil. If you are that obsessed with getting rid of evil, then why not waste the time to "convert" the evil fighter on to the side of good? (To be honest, that would be a pain, and I doubt the player would cooperate. That's why I agree with your first suggestion.) But I have an idea how you might be able to kill him. If he intentionally breaks the terms of a surrender. So, "confiscate" (not steal) his equipment, and tell him to surrender. He's too dangerous to keep around. Keep him around the party as a prisoner until he shows signs of becoming good. Ridicule him OOC if you want, but in game, you don't see anything wrong with prisoner walking butt-naked by your side while your dire grizzly is one bite away from tearing out his ass. You're too "innocent" to see why your other teammates are laughing their asses off. If he breaks the terms of the surrender, you can kill him. Yes, even the BoED allows for killing if a prisoner breaks his terms of surrender. Even exalted characters have a limit, and one of them is if a prisoner breaks his terms of surrender and still expects to be treated with mercy.
SighGuy 08-16-05, 01:15 PM	Here's the bottom line: Leave him or kill him. Don't reason with him (OOC once. Just ONCE. If he says "I want to act in character" then kill him while he sleeps and say "Yeah, it feels good to act in character, I must admit!") just get rid of him. You're traveling with someone who wants to castrate party members. Do you continue travelling with him?!? NO! Get rid of him! I can't stress this enough. Not a moment is left to waste. Your character is being ridiculous if he's still going around with this guy. Even an EVIL party would get rid of him, the fact that you guys have a mostly neutral party has nothing to do with whether or not he should go. Neutral doesn't affect your tendency to think "I want to be harmed by my party members" it affects your tendency to think "I might be willing to harm someone for my own gain" I'm just saying. Don't give him another morning. Talk to him OOC, and once he insists, wait till he sleeps and kill him. Or leave with the party. Move on. One less moron in the DnD world, if you ask me. Don't build OOC hostilities over this, either, but don't think that you'll be building them just by killing him. If you don't kill him, he's just going to bully you guys around and there's no standing for that! Now, I hope that this whole issue hasn't been resolved already, since I read only the first two or three posts :lol:
jnrhayz 08-16-05, 02:02 PM	I have two points to make: 1. http://dnd.meetup.com/187/ Meet-up for dnd people in your area (if your location is correct - either way you should be able to find something there). Says there are 227 or so people as members. Someone will let you in their game. 2. Actually I forgot, my character doesn't sleep anymore (long story) but I still need my 8 hours for spells/general rest. A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, just as a wizard does. However, a divine spellcaster does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular part of the day to pray and receive spells. The time is usually associated with some daily event. If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, he must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, he must wait until the next day to prepare spells. So, if you don't have to sleep, you don't need rest. The only thing I can see is no major physical activity or you would become fatigued, but you don't have to rest for spells.
Paradisio 08-16-05, 05:04 PM	So is the general concensus that I should quit? Because I am thinking about it, this might be the last straw.
Paradisio 08-16-05, 05:40 PM	It's done, I quit. No more D&D then... I'll cya around guys. I posted in all the gaming sites months ago and never found a group, thanks for all your help over the past year.
a_psh 08-16-05, 05:47 PM	Wait... Did you tell the other party members that he wanted to castrate them? And that it wasn't a joke - that he practically had his special knives out and everything? If you didn't, you should. If you did, these guys are utter idiots playing characters with no sense of self-preservation. I think they might be beyond help. But, just in case you feel like giving them the benefit of the doubt, ask them if, hypothetically, it's okay for you, in real life, to try cutting their legs off or raping them to death. And ask them whether they'd still be friends with you after that. Point out that this is what's going on. As for the actual killing, I think you have a moral imperative to kill this guy. I would suggest summoning critters with auto-trip or big grapple checks (not necessarily improved grapple), and then piling on the direct damage and whatnot (wildshape if he starts to melee you, perhaps?). (EDIT) Apologies, as it's moot now.
Paradisio 08-16-05, 05:53 PM	They knew, they were awake (but paralyzed) when he was going to do it. So they saw and heard everything.
a_psh 08-16-05, 05:58 PM	They knew, they were awake (but paralyzed) when he was going to do it. So they saw and heard everything. Then they're total idiots who deserve everything they get. They don't deserve you, however: the fact that you even thought about this shows that you're too good for them. I seldom yell "ditch the group!" in response to board posts, but your decision to run very far away is sensible, I believe. Good luck.
Sapp 08-16-05, 09:14 PM	Yes, he played the "exalted" character well. Even I'd be plotting hard on how to kill this fighter while trying to appear like I was doing it in character. Which would definitely be against the spirit of being exalted. The fact that most of us quickly jumped to the conclusion "OMG, KILL HIM!" without thinking twice kind of demonstrates how difficult it is sometimes to play an exalted character (you should have been vile, haha). The fact that he sat through a few sessions of this crap is a testament to his tolerance and perhaps even good role-playing ability. Hopefully, Paradisio doesn't use this past experience as an example of how role-playing should be done, and continues to be a fine gamer as he is now.
pres_man 08-16-05, 09:46 PM	There are places online where you can game by post. You might look at finding one of these. You can also put an ad in the classifies on this site looking for players, though you might need to do some DMing in either case at least at first.
bobbilcon 08-16-05, 09:47 PM	I say you go epic and get a seed of summoning or somthing like that and put say 100 spell craft by some obscure manner and summon a diety or even gaia on his ass. that would be... FUN :D
Paradisio 08-16-05, 10:52 PM	There are places online where you can game by post. You might look at finding one of these. You can also put an ad in the classifies on this site looking for players, though you might need to do some DMing in either case at least at first. Yea, I've done the above. No luck finding another group in the past several months though. And I don't think I'm up for DMing.
Wizards_White_Knight 08-16-05, 11:54 PM	Paradiso (I am sure I spelt that wrong), I've been thinking of running a game with my friends over MSN. I've tried DMing before IRL, but it was too fast paced for me. I was going ot have it jsut for my friends, but perhaps you could join in if you cant find ANYWHERE else to play. The only problem would be your time zone. It would be VERY hard to find a time that suits everyone. If you're interested, PM me, and I will add you to MSN. (Again, assuming you have it.) WWK
Paradisio 08-17-05, 12:16 AM	I don't have MSN. Honestly, I can only seemyself playing in person, using a program like OpenRPG (which doesn't interest me much since it only supports core stuff it seems), or doing some kind of forum game. But using the forums to play a game seems nauseatingly slow, and having to make 100s of links for dice rolls seems nerve wracking.
Disco 08-17-05, 01:05 AM	You should have killed his character before you quit. You know, because it would have been funny.
Paradisio 08-17-05, 01:19 AM	You should have killed his character before you quit. You know, because it would have been funny. Yea, feel bad for having all these great suggestions now. I hope I never get a chance to use them.
ShadowDragon8685 08-17-05, 01:48 AM	Paradioso, you obviously didn't look into OpenRPG hard enough. It's abstracted. It dosen't support Core D20. It dosen't 'support' anything that people don't make it support. Which means it supports everything from D&D to Shadowrun. And yes, you probably should've 'roleplayed' his character's death before you left. Maybe spent the rest of the session killing everyone under guide of roleplay, and then left. :) And MSN, AIM, etcetera - they're not hard to get. If you want game, just get them and get game. Take White Knight up on his offer.
skywyze 08-17-05, 02:18 AM	Is group therapy cheaper than individual ones? I'm concerned for the wellbeing (and quite frankly, the sanity) of your group in real life. Seriously though, finding a new D&D group in Houston should be the easiest thing since Paris Hilton (oooh, burn)! I live out in the wilderness of North Dakota. I came from a foreign country to study here. I didn't know anyone. And I STILL managed to find four different D&D groups! I don't think you've really been searching. Tried other gaming stores than the one you usually play in?
Paradisio 08-17-05, 02:32 AM	I've checked at least 3 of the major stores in Houston. Its not for a lack of them, its also my schedule and the fact that I don't meet their silly prerequisites. AIM and such isn't a great option, especially games at weird times, since my connection goes out for several hours every night... and I have cable. I don't know what the deal is, but it seems to happen like clockwork. Is there some kind of Open RPG guide I missed? Because I can't seem to put anything new into the program.
ShadowDragon8685 08-17-05, 02:34 AM	Paradioso, you should actually check with your cable company about that. And openRPG is best learned on the go, with someone else who's showing you everything. Yes, there are ways to add stuff. I could show you, sometime when I'm not dog-tired. You should get AIM and MSN, they're handy if for only to talk to people in real time.
jnrhayz 08-17-05, 09:32 AM	Well Paradisio, I am glad you got out of that mess. I am I glad you didn't screw up their group before you left just for spite. Don't give up hope on a new group. Try that meetup link I posted. It took me two years to finally get the group I game with now. I met two people from my area that I gamed with (although only one is still with the group)at the meetup meeting and only 6 people showed up, but it was a good start. Also, I met two other people from something I posted like a year before. Good Luck!
Tuah Shinguru 08-17-05, 07:36 PM	If I were you, I'd ask a ranger or rogue with authority (DM) to keep a watch on him, and he'll confirm it. Then, tie him up and send him in.
Bruunwald 08-17-05, 07:46 PM	I'm thinking it might be good to take whatever action you will as soon as you can. You say this guy has killed off 30-something PCs over a year. End this fighter now, while he's still only 7th level. You can summon some dire rats. They carry disease. Feign ignorance, summon the dire rats. A day or two later, when the disease kicks in, his Str and Con will go down. Attack. --EDIT-- Ulp! Nevermind.
Delory Sunsmith 08-17-05, 10:31 PM	We play at a game store... Trust me, I've looked. By the time I find a group looking, they are already full or are interested in older players (and I'm 20), or only want players with 10 years experience in the game. I'm not sure I want to do realtime online gaming, that seems difficult, and If I'm at home, family distracts me often. I was in an e-mail campaign, but progress was so painfully slow, I got bored quickly. Don't afear online gaming. It lets you get away from a decent % of the idiots in the world. One nice RP forum, on these very boards is here: http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=281 , or if you'd like me to show you some more contact me at thanqol_@hotmail.com or summat. The Internet Is Your Friend.
DarkSoldier 08-17-05, 10:39 PM	By the time I find a group looking, they are already full or are interested in older players (and I'm 20), or only want players with 10 years experience in the game. I don't understand why RPG groups want those qualifications; it's a game, not a job application.
skywyze 08-18-05, 12:14 AM	I think groups that place age requirements are confusing maturity of mind with maturity of body. Some of the most annoyingly immature people I know are in their 40s, while some of the most mature and sociable people I've met are like, 13. I'm sure that if you were to meet them and show them that you're a mature player (and you certainly sound like it from reading your posts), then they'd make an exception. I know I would.
da beast 08-18-05, 01:56 AM	Though, this is coming from the perspective of someone who has played an obease dwarven fighter who would eat small children in broad daylight amidst a populate town. Siged :D k well kill him where he sleeps :D if you DM rules like I do he is evil and thefore you have reason enough to kill him considering he is just as bad as an orc. Consider hireing an assasin.
Andrew_980 08-18-05, 02:01 AM	I know what this guy is feeling, it took me 5 years to find a DM (first game saturday! :D ) Try the RPGA, there may be a gameclub or something in the area, we have one near me that I didn't know about for almost a decade!. It may take some time but go to the RPGA website and see what is closest