Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Scavenger 01-23-08, 07:58 PM	I have been in a campaign recently where we had a couple of balance issues. This was many due to me having a Goliath barb that dealt 3d10 + 10 with his large greatsword (we are level 4 mind you) and my friends sorcerer that couldn't do anything really in combat. This ended up with the DM using powerful monsters that the other members couldn't fight so I it would be any challenge for me. So the last session we had, the sorcerer had enough and stabbed his own mouth with his spear in the restroom (in-game mind you). So he is making a new character and I thought it might be a good idea to get rid of the barb to make it more interesting for everyone else. The problem is that I have allot of roles to cover with the lose of the sorcerer and barb. Here is my situation. Level: we are currently level 4 and I'm not sure how high we are going to go, maybe until 4th edition. Other members: Cleric: This is his first time at playing and he is not very talkative so he doesn't make a good leader. This character still works for healing but he doesn't know how to tank right now but if I can give him something other than the spear he has maybe he can take a bit of the hits. Rogue: We also have a gnome rogue who is a great skill monkey but has certain problems. For one, he only recently learned about feint and has trouble getting SA's. He also would be a great leader if it wasn't for one thing, he looks like a demon. He threw a Book of Vile Darkness on a trap and blew it up (I know that is might not work but its how my DM did it so he could give the rogue a special storyline). This covered him in black tattoo's all over and turned his eyes all black, and this is stacked onto the racial prejudice that the world we are in has to all who are not human. Ranger: this is the ex-sorcerer, he has chosen to go be a dwarf ranger that will probably go TWF. This is great for combat, but I doubt that it will be able to take to many hits and or be good enough to cover the tank role. This leaves me. I am not sure what to do to fill up the roles left. I could always be a swash which would cover leader and melee/tank but we would miss a arcanist. Or i could go wizard and get battlefield control or buff, but we wouldn't have a leader and a weaker front. So I am up for any suggestions, but for preferences I will say that I would want to be more swashbuckler that big dumb fighter if I go combat and I would love it if the class could come from a person we has been in a city their whole life. But this is secondary. Thank you for any help that you can give me.
Ziggaraut 01-23-08, 08:34 PM	Well, THERE'S your problem. You were level 4. Casters SUCK at lower levels, and melee's ROCK. I know his pain, the only reason I play melees is because I never get past low levels in my campaigns. Goliath Barbarians are fun at low levels because they DO rock hardcore. To fill up the group if your going to change, I would suggest an arcanist with crowd control. Better then any tank I've ever had. Grease and Web is all I ever needed in the lower levels, though I moved up to evocations at level 7 or so, and moved to wall spells after 10 or so. The important thing is to have fun though. Good luck!
Scavenger 01-23-08, 08:41 PM	I do think a arcanist would be helpful but one problem. What do I do about the leader issue?
Ziggaraut 01-23-08, 08:46 PM	If you are referring to somebody who walks out in front of the party, I would recommend either the rogue or ranger. Otherwise, I'm not really sure what you are referring to when you say 'leader'.
BillTheManiac 01-23-08, 08:49 PM	Use glitterdust. I know, I'm a DM and I hate it.
Scavenger 01-23-08, 08:55 PM	I'm talking about the local front, the person who talks, tries to gather knowledge, works on diplomacy. In essence the person who works on getting us better deals and out of possible trouble..... Looking at it not I can kinda see that I don't really need one.....but would it still be a good idea to get something like charm person or suggestion?
BillTheManiac 01-23-08, 09:00 PM	Use glitterdust. I know, I'm a DM and I hate it.
Scavenger 01-23-08, 09:14 PM	I am definitely going to use glitterdust but would it be better for me to go sorcerer or wizard? A sorcerer would be preferable for roleplay value but would a wizard just be a better choice over all?
Krusk 01-23-08, 10:12 PM	While a wizard is generally better in every way than a sorcerer, the sorcerer does have one small advantage. With a high CHa it is easier for you to make a beter face than for the wizard. A wizard can do it, but they need to be devoted to it, where as a sorcerer can just put a few skill points in diplomacy and be done with it.
Scavenger 01-23-08, 10:49 PM	What if, and I know that allot of people might hate this idea, but i go rogue the first level so I get the skills I need and a slmall increase in hp. Do you think it would be worth it?
Deekin 01-24-08, 04:01 AM	Don' you mean 3d6 damage for a large greatsword? A Huge bastard Sword would deal 3d8, but I can't see a way to deal 3d10.
Rederik 01-24-08, 11:08 AM	Don' you mean 3d6 damage for a large greatsword? A Huge bastard Sword would deal 3d8, but I can't see a way to deal 3d10. Thank you for posting this... I too was confused by 3d10...
epifreak 01-24-08, 12:00 PM	What if, and I know that allot of people might hate this idea, but i go rogue the first level so I get the skills I need and a slmall increase in hp. Do you think it would be worth it? If you're thinking about that route, arcane trickster might be your friend. Just be sure to make your rogue the social rogue type to avoid conflicting too much with the other rogue.
Scavenger 01-24-08, 09:46 PM	Sorry i meant 3d6 + 10 I ended up going with a wizard because of the fact that the ranger is going to be a fighter. I gave up on the idea of leader and am instead going for buff/debuff. Though one more (and hopefully last) question, I think I'm going focused specialist. Is this a good idea? The problem I'm having is if I should give up abjuration or necromancy as my last prohibited. I have already chosen enchant and evoc. Getting rid of necromancy would work better for the RP aspect of my character, but I'm afraid of losing possible debuff's I might need.
I_roll_ones 01-24-08, 11:50 PM	Got PHBII? Look up beguiler. Don't bother with sneaking or disabling devices, let your rogue buddy feel useful. Instead, buy up your talky skills. Stay back in combat, and then crowd control(Like Glitterdust) and charm/dominate. They have a nice amount of skill points so it won't be a problem, even if your CHA is low. You'll make fights MUCH easier, since generally something will always be blind, charmed or confused.
draco1119 01-25-08, 06:50 AM	I ended up going with a wizard because of the fact that the ranger is going to be a fighter. I gave up on the idea of leader and am instead going for buff/debuff. Though one more (and hopefully last) question, I think I'm going focused specialist. Is this a good idea? The problem I'm having is if I should give up abjuration or necromancy as my last prohibited. I have already chosen enchant and evoc. Getting rid of necromancy would work better for the RP aspect of my character, but I'm afraid of losing possible debuff's I might need. Well, if you don't give up abjuration, you could always PrC into Abjurant Champion, which is a pretty sweet gish. :)
aikimiller 01-25-08, 08:48 AM	The other route that would have worked well in this party was battle field control. Depending on the campaign, trip could have been pretty nice. Another option would have been to go for a tank with high mobility to try and help the rogue get SA through flanking. Ideally the rogue should be smart enough to figure it out himself, but sometimes you just have to help people. As far as spells go, color spray is another nice one that if you can pull off the rogue will appreciate.
Scavenger 01-25-08, 10:38 AM	Okay, I finally finished my character. I decided to just go with a Transmuter so I can buff and debuff. I am not really worrying about a leader position, I can just talk if needed, if that doesn't work then I just get to do a few more fights! The only thing I am worried about is my spell list. Does this look good?: level-1 Enlarge Person Grease Mage Armor Silent Image Expedient Retreat, Swift Disguise Self Ray of Clumsiness Wall of Smoke Benign Transportation level-2 Rope trick Glitterdust Invisibility Cloud of Bewilderment Does this work fine? And I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has helped me so far. I have been amazed at the support this forum has for newer people. I am use to watching my posts disappear with zero posts.
epifreak 01-25-08, 11:37 AM	Sounds like you're going for as much battlefield control as buff/debuff anyway. I know it's not a popular thing to do, but I find it handy to have one or two direct damage options on hand each day. It may be technically inferior to the buff/debuff/crowd control/save or die options, but well, sometimes you've got the perfect opportunity to throw a big AOE damager (i.e. a bunch of low level mooks bunch up) and you'll be kicking yourself if you don'g have the capacity to use it. If you're specializing, you've probably given up evocation, but conjuration should have a few shinies in there.
Krusk 01-25-08, 07:11 PM	I wouldn't bother with mage armor yet. At this level it isn't lasting a good portion of your adventuring day and so you are going to be stuck casting it each combat. Now instead of casting a nicebattlefield control and keeping the enemy far from you, and next to your fighter you have spent your turn casting a self buff that may, but probably will not, keep the enemy who is currently charging you from hitting. In it's place I would pick up something like from PHB, sleep, or color spray. from spell compendium, something like thunderhead to cast on any spellcasters you meet. They might fail concentration checks at this level.