Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alcari Ambaron 05-19-05, 04:10 PM	a game i am currently playing has our party in a rhater large problem. We're stuck inside the walls of a castle surrounded by a truly MASSIVE horde of enemies. The castle is currently not our concern, but we have to get out of there. To make it even worse, we have to take the poisoned prince with us. out party is made up of: Me-> human 2barb,6scout Elf 8 wizard Halfling 8 rogue dwarf 9 fighter human 8 ranger aasimar 6 cleric + 1 comatose prince hacking and slashing our way out is not an option, neither is teleport since the whole place is Anchored. After some long discussion we came up witha slighty meta-game sollution, but we think it'll work. We go A-team style and turn our harmless horse-drawn wagon into a killer tank that'll go straight through the enemie ranks. We have acces to all the wood we need, iron shouldn't be a big problem and among the six of us we have nearly the whole PHB's worth of adventuring gear..... (the ranger has wood working skills) But I need some help figuring out what to place on it, if it is feasible and if the horses can still pull it. there is no need to kill the whole army, we only need to get out. All help and ideas are welcome.
Maerdash 05-19-05, 04:31 PM	Try to find the secret exit, most castles have them. The main problem i see with the a team wagon is that the horses themselves wont live long enough to pull it anywhere past the front gate, you can try to get out of the area of the dim lock and then teleport, but the feasability of that depends on how large the area is. The fly spell is an option that may work, mirage arcana could also help. You could also march behind a cloudkill spell at half speed, using readied actions each round to defend against archers (there are many spells that can help with this including prot from arrows. Going with another tactic one of the best ways to get out of a castle is to make the people keeping you in go away, this can be done with illusions or (my way) brute magical force,use of spells such as fire ball, wall of fire, and cloudkill can force an army into a frontal assault, your taking out large numbers of troops and they cant have that, their opptions become abandon the siege, attack, die quietly, or (most likely) move out of range. EDIT: You may be able to use spells like telekinesis to move your wagon so that the horse issues stop being issues
Ilium 05-19-05, 04:38 PM	Is the castle by any chance on a hill? Many are. If so, you might be able to rig up something to steer the wagon without horses and just roll it down the hill. Cast attack spells like fireball to clear the way. If it rolls out of the anchor area you teleport away. How do you have Teleport in that group, anyway? That's a 5th-level spell, isn't it?
mcnoo 05-19-05, 05:54 PM	Is there any chance you've got the right spells between you to make it look like you're still going to be there while you use other shape changing/ilusionary spells to sneak out? Flying spells would be fantastic seeing as you could just soar out of the army's range.
StevenO 05-19-05, 11:33 PM	It would be possible to build a war wagon and use horses to pull it. You would need to provide full cover for the animals so they don't get kill but that can be done. The big problem with the wagon is going to be mobility. If you get stuck or the horde otherwise forces you to stop you are going to be in even worse shape than before. If you have stable ground to move over you will need some method to attack out of your little fort to clear the horde from your path. You also will want to time your escape to take advantage of any distraction or stealth opportunities that arise. Good Luck
Lidabmob 05-20-05, 12:05 AM	Wizard casts fly on you and the fighter. Then uses reduce person mass or several reduce person. The Fighter and the you then carry everyone up up and away from the castle. Really all depends on what the wizard has access to thats just one option.
Ut-Napishtim 05-20-05, 02:55 AM	neither is teleport since the whole place is Anchored. Dude, I wonder if your DM has any idea how much gold and xp it would take to permanently enchant an entire castle with Dimensional Anchor. Oh my gawd, Becky. That castle is probably the most valuable artifact on the face of the freakin' planet. I say pop a squat and take the place over, the Cleric can make enough food for you to last out the seige. Or perhaps once the DM realizes this the enchantment will suddenly "wear off" so you guys can Teleport out of there (although I too am not understanding how ya'll have access to teleportation anyway.)
Nidair 05-20-05, 05:41 PM	We're talking about a prince's habitat here, who can certainly afford such luxury. I don't know why he would want to anchor his own castle though. Wizard casts fly on you and the fighter. Then uses reduce person mass or several reduce person. The Fighter and the you then carry everyone up up and away from the castle. Those would have to be extended reduce persons, as those spells only work for 8 minutes. Mass invisibility and nondetections should work though, or a major image to change your carriage into a manticore. The solution depends on what you're up against.
Ut-Napishtim 05-20-05, 06:56 PM	We're talking about a prince's habitat here, who can certainly afford such luxury. I don't know why he would want to anchor his own castle though. Right... the luxury. Dimensional Anchor is a 4th level spell that normally affects only a single target. Now since I'm a pretty nice DM I'd probably allow a PC to use Craft Wonderous Item to enchant a structure with it though at a generous 1,000 cubic feet/level without having to research a new spell for a standard 30% enhancement charge. Taking the minimum 7th level caster that's seven 10x10x10 cubes. Now, assuming this is a small keep, not really a castle you're looking at about 15 enchantings. Since Dimensional Anchor only lasts 1 min/level normally that's like another x2 multiplier IIRC. So for a small keep we have: Caster Level (7) x Spell Level (4) x 2,000 gp for constant effect x 2 Duration Multiplier 30% Enhancement Cost x 15 for the whole place Now my comp's calculator isn't working ATM for some reason, but by my simple figuring that comes to 2,175,000 gp to enchant a small keep with Dimensional Anchor. That's just ludicrous - and I'm a fairly lenient DM. I mean, I could see it maybe if it was a Forgotten Realms game and the dude was a powerful Conjurer with CWI who did it himself - okay. People throw around 2 million gold (about 40,000 pounds of gold) in the Realms like nothing all the time, no big whoop. It's high-magic et cetera, but that doesn't change the fact that this place is a magic item worth at least 2 million gold - and if it's an actual castle, holy frog socks, Batman! :eek: Looking at the DMG for stuff like this really helps put things into perspective rather than just going: Hey, the dude's a Prince - he can have whatever I want him too. Not really my style, but your mileage may vary.
Mirikon 05-20-05, 07:54 PM	Actually, Ut, for a hereditary castle, that's not so rash. It could be that the process was done over time, afterall. Or that one of the former rulers happened to be a wizard or had an eccentric wizard advisor...
Loren Pechtel 05-20-05, 11:14 PM	Or the caster created some other spell to do it with.
braindead345 05-21-05, 12:07 AM	Since you are kind of vague about how far you have to go and how thick the enemy line is, I will assume that you might have to fight your way through 300 feet of enemy forces & then move fast enough to keep them from catching up with you. How far do you have to go to reach safety? I will also assume you have some time to prepare. What can the cleric do to heal the prince? Get the prince as healthy and alert as possible. He might know a secret way out, or at the very least can help kill the horde in your path. Back to wagon, first off, find a way to mount blades to the wheel hubs and lances or spears to the harness for the horses. These will help prevent the horde for attacking with melee weapons and will help clear the road for you. Raid the castle's armory for weapons that might be of help. Barding will also be a help. Next, have the wizard memorize as many fireball and shield spells as he can. cast as many shield spells as possible to protect the horses and the prince. Once you start moving, the wizard's sole job will be to cast fireball after fireball untill you are through the horde. Casting Wall of Fire will give you a 20' tall wall 160' long, use this to cut off half the horde from attacking by running it parallel to the escape route. However it will only last 8 rounds after his concentration returns to casting fireballs. Once the cleric has done the most he can for the prince, have him prepare as many useful combat spells as possible. Depending on what he can get for his domains, have him protect the wagon or cast offensive spells to stop the horde. Out of the rest of the party, figure who has the best chance of driving the wagon (or the worst offensive value) and have the rest ready crossbows or longbows. In fact, load as many crossbows as possible on the wagon and have them ready to fire. Fire once and throw the bow off the wagon until you are down to 2 or 3 apiece to use the rest of the way.
Ut-Napishtim 05-21-05, 03:43 AM	Actually, Ut, for a hereditary castle, that's not so rash. It could be that the process was done over time, afterall. Or that one of the former rulers happened to be a wizard or had an eccentric wizard advisor... Like I said, perfectly fine for your run-of-the-mill Forgotten Realms game, but not the sort of thing that's going to happen in mine. This smells a lot like DM railroading to me quite honestly, or maybe him trying to correct giving the party access to Teleport a level early. Seriously, instead of this you could have two continuous Summon Monster IX's going for a paltry 1,648,000 gold. Talk about guards, that's ten Avorals, Bone Devils, or Huge Elementals that come back the round after they're slain. Overall the Dimensional Anchor enchantment is much more expensive than it's worth even with my generous nature, and the reason the owner had it put in? Because the DM thought it'd thwart the PC's. Go on and ask him, dude. Walk right up to him and say: Why did this castle's owner have Dimensional Anchor put on the whole place, costing him millions of goild in the process? I bet he just stares blankly at you.
Arcen 05-21-05, 04:53 AM	What worries me is the fact that everytime you hit something you'll be slowing yourself down. Maybe casting grease would help it get up some speed. Does the wizard have lightning bolt? As soon as the gates opened I would send one right down the path I planned to take then 2 Walls of Fire on either side of the gate to keep the horde out. From there I would cycle through Fireballs, Magice Missles, whatever I could. Whoever's not drving should be firing out of Arrow slots. All in all it sounds to me like there must be an easier way (though that would be one awesome exit ;) ). Do you know the radius of the dimensional lock? Seems to me like it would be a lot easier to build a catepult and launch yourselves out of the zone and then teleport (though I hope your Wiz has a good Concentration mod).
Roboradish 05-22-05, 01:02 PM	Maybe that area had some sort of effect on it that mimmicked dimensional anchor and the keep was built there because of that. Anyway, dispell the enchantment and teleport out.
Talinna 05-22-05, 01:13 PM	I'm with one of the first post, find the secret exit.... you have an elf in the party, use him... make him walk every wall searching untill his feet bleed... as for the plowing through the army.... make sure you have spare wheels (I'm sure the dm will have a least one if not 3 of them bust on you) Do you have a keg of oil by chance (or access to one?) that and a tinder twig will do a mighty nice job of parting ways for you, very few things like fire that are found creeping in castles (with your exception of the occational dungeon dragon and Barlog). Also you can try creating a frightful presence with the wagon, your wizard can cast a few spells that cause nasty sounds and lights as your wagon blazes towards them looking like some unearthy construction of doom... With wood working one could make some nice pointy speers to throw, and the moving wagon should give a little damage bonus, but expect a counter on the to hit part of that as you are moving (granted if you have rank after rank to throw at you're shooting fish in a barrel so to speak)
Josuwar 05-22-05, 02:45 PM	Now I didn't read all the posts, but I don't believe anyone answered the Permanent Dimension Anchor problem... (un)Hallow Dimensional Anchor is one of the spells that can be attached to it, it'l cost alot of money, obviously (around 6000 GP or so I guess, since I'm too lazy to check Dimension Anchors spell level, per 40 ft radius). Why would anyone Dimension Anchor his house? Well, I believe it can also prevent people from teleporting into it, so no assassins teleporting in to take out a sleeping prince. Of course it may also be an evil DM, but it's actually kinda logical in my opinion (though perhaps only in key areas). Edit: If this is what your DM used, Dispel Magic won't work (I think), since Hallow an Instantaneous spell. However, Unhallow (or Hallow, depending on who cast it) should negate the effects, so you can teleport out.
Vanigo 05-24-05, 12:46 AM	Magical effects affixed to hallow only last a year. If you've got access to teleportation magic, it's easy: Cast fly on everyone, fly straight up until you're out of the anchored zone, then teleport. I don't think the battle-wagon would work unless you've got some way of giving it more than 10 hardness and the ability to run right over enemies. You could try for a few flying rowboats, though. The castle ought to have some suitable gegaws for enchantment lying around somewhere. If you manage to make the boats, simply fly out in the middle of the night. If you're lucky your enemies won't even realize you've left for a few days.
Josuwar 05-24-05, 06:27 AM	In most campaigns, when something lasts a year, it could just as well have been permanent :).
Phrennzy 05-24-05, 10:14 AM	In most campaigns, when something lasts a year, it could just as well have been permanent :). Not to mention that you could just renew the Hallow spell every year - kinda like testing the batteries in your smoke detectors. As for the A-Team wagon (and thanks for putting the song in my head) - A LOT depends on the terrain and the massive horde. Here is what your plan sounds like to me: "Hey, let's grab a wagon, slap some iron plates on it, pile everyone inside - it shouldn't be too cramped for 7 people, right? - okay then we have the horses pull the whole thing right out into the enemy camp, and the horses can pull us all the way through their lines. Sweet!" And here is what happens: "Our top story tonight, The Prince is dead, killed alongside his would be rescuers during their desperate attempt to flee the beseiged Castle Dimensional Anchor. Our "On the Scene" reporters caught footage, which we show to you now. Be warned, it is graphic." <scene shows huge castle with bright blue "DA" flags, surrounded by a truly massive horde.> Narrator: "Here we have the beseiged castle, surrounded by a truly massive horde. Never in all my years have I seen a horde so massive or so true - wait, something is happening...the gate is raising...some kind of horse drawn wagon has burst into the horde! It's careening through the first group like a hot knife through butter! An amazing escape attempt! The horde is responding...Ooh! That's one horse down to a great spear...there's another...the wagon is slowing, held up somewhat by the loss of horsepower and the mass of bodies before it... <scene shows massive horde crowding around the wagon, hacking at it. Then a tiny, pea shaped ball of fire strikes the wagon, setting it ablaze.> "I believe that was a fireball that just struck the wagon. It’s burst into flames...get this, Charlie, get this, Charlie...Get out of the way, please, oh, my, this is terrible, oh, my, get out of the way, please! It is burning, burst into flames and...this is one of the worst catastrophes in the world!...Oh, it’s a terrific crash ladies and gentlemen...oh, the humanity and all the passengers!” <back to the studio> "Awful. Just awful. And now, Flumpho the dancing flumph! Take it away, Flumpho!"
mungojerrie 05-29-05, 08:53 PM	Nothing much to add, its just that if your worried about the horses dying you could have your wizard whip up a few 'Phantom Steeds' instead
PlaidViking 05-29-05, 09:04 PM	If you adjust the wagon so the horses are surrounded by the wagon (as opposed to them pulling the wagon from the front) then I could see the horses surviving and the A-Team wagon busting heads. As for weapons, you're gonna need spikes, lotsa spikes. I suppose just sticking a whole lotta swords out of random places will work for that. Armor plating for the wagon is a must too (just use armor and shields). You'll want to lower the wagon so its fairly close to the ground just to give the horses extra protection. If you have spare metal, you can set up some gears so as the wheels turn various weapons (hammers, flails, etc) start swinging. You'll prolly want varying lengths of longspears in the front too, because plowing through the enemies, they're bound to start breaking. Arrow slits for you guys could help if you're not confident in all of this.
Flushmaster 05-30-05, 12:53 AM	With enough wood and armor plating, you can make a covered wagon that also covers the horses pulling it. just build a frame around the horses and cover it (including a couple of extra wheels to support this, of course. Have the driver sit behind the horses and have a slit or three to look out and above the horses' shielding to steer them. It'll add weight but you can add more horses, too; more horses would make the wagon harder to turn quickly but it's a tradeoff for protection and speed. A team of six or eight horses isn't uncommon for a large wagon (not so much needed by the weight but often for speed and to ease the load per horse so they don't tire as quickly) so you shouldn't have difficulty rigging up eight or ten horses (and/ormounts) under the protection (remember heavy horses pull heavier loads). At this length a hinge or two would be a good idea in the horse cover so you can turn, which shouldn't be too big of a craft check (remember the aid another action for checks, and on something the size of a wagon there should be plenty of room for extra helpers). Make a wedge on the front of the wagon to push aside those wishing to stop you. Some extra wheels never hurts a wagon. Heavy armor plating should logically add to hardness, not AC, to the wagon, but think in layers. A layer of 1 inch thick wood then a layer of half inch steel and then another of each would give you a lot of hardness. A few magical mounts could even be put on the outside of the wagon to add some extra accelleration and speed. If they die they disappear, at least if they go by normal summoning rules (which I'm pretty sure they do) so they won't impede progress if they "die" as long as you just strap them to the wagon with heavy leather straps or rope (and not something solid). Narrow slits along the wagon to provide firing ports for arrows and ray spells would be a good idea, both to clear the way and to discourage pursuit. If your wizard has a wand of lightning bolt (or can make one prior to the escape attempt) then it would be an enormous help; poke it out an arrow slit and blast a clear line ahead or behind you. A wand of fireball would be nearly as useful, but []ilightning bolt[/i]has a longer range of effect and you just need a corridor, not a big round hole. As mentioned earlier, a cleverly placed wall of fire (or just about any other wall spell that the wizard has access to) can be quite useful as well. Due to the limited length of said wall you'd want to place such barriers carefully between your path and any particularly nasty enemy troops, but it should be able to save the wagon from a couple nastier hits and make it easier to survive the escape. Can you tell that I like this idea? Of course to have the proper effect, you've gotta paint the whole thing black with that nifty red stripe then have your largest party member put on a many gold necklaces as you can find, and say this: I pity the fool that gets in the way of this wagon! It works best if he/she also has a mohawk. A half orc or, even better, an ogre would be great for this karmic bonus, but in your group's case I guess that dwarf or one of the humans will have to do.
Shazarn 05-30-05, 05:34 PM	Have your wizard make as many wands as he can of fireball or lightning bolt. Split in half with the rouge. Hell insues. Or if the castle has an arcane library (unlikely) or iuf your wizard knows Rainbow patern make alot of those wands why kill if you can just stop them. Or invisibility. Umm wind wall, ice storm is good. But i think lightning bolt is your best bet. If the wagon is 10 feet wide then just have the rouge and wizard shot the long ones if it is 20 feet wide then the short one is best. Heck you might just decide to use the short ones anyway. Woah. If the army is really big it still might be worthwile to give the rouge a wand of fireballs and have him blast the soldiers from the wall. 1256 square feet of devestation to an entrenced army is real good.And they will be more compact the a 5 foot square per person. And if you give him a fully charged wand 62,800 worth of blasted square feet is going to take a toll in the army.
neilthrun 05-30-05, 06:56 PM	I would encourage something like a giant snowblower or lawnmower. Make your wagon big, have a leigon of slaves walking around in a circle moving some big spoked wheel to power the thing. Adding a ballista or two will just add to style. Your biggest problem will be the wagon breaking down, so horse or man power is a bad idea, I would highly suggest the wizard make some sort of construct instead, although you probably have limted time and resources for such a thing. Or maybe some kind of reverse trojan horse?
Vanigo 05-30-05, 08:08 PM	Wait a second - phantom steed! That'll give you a speed of 160' - more if you've got any CL boosts. It doesn't have many hit points, but you can make a wand and have fifty of the things, so you can afford to lose forty or so in the 60 seconds it'll take to get clear.