About calling shots... [Archive] - Wizards Community

About calling shots... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SuperFrosty
09-19-04, 01:42 AM I recall scanning over a table that had the mods for your attack rolls if you were to target a specific body part, such as the head (-8 penalty, IIRC). Does anyone know WHERE the hell I saw this table?
JabberWocky
09-19-04, 01:44 AM It wasn't in any core rulebook, that's for sure. There are no rules in core D&D that cover called shots, simply for balance reasons.
SuperFrosty
09-19-04, 01:49 AM Eh, I give up. I've asked everywhere...
Timely Drought
09-19-04, 01:49 AM A terrible idea to implement, but I've seen a base -4 to attack on top of a modifier based on the body part size, provokes AoO.

Called shots do exist in core D&D, but only when attacking a hydra. Which is just plain bad game design, really.
SuperFrosty
09-19-04, 01:50 AM I don't so much want to implement it as I want to freaking find the table. Do you remember where that was?
Timely Drought
09-19-04, 01:52 AM I don't so much want to implement it as I want to freaking find the table. Do you remember where that was?On some web forum. Are you looking for official rules? You will thankfully not find any, to my knowledge. And it wasn't a crit table, just the rule I gave for a special attack action with miscellaneous effects based on the DM's whim.

I've heard about some called shot rules in a third party d20 supplement, but I forget which.
SuperFrosty
09-19-04, 01:56 AM Grrr...well, I play half the time, DM half the time. Our other DM and I were having a debate about the effects of "vorpal". He claimed it merely did extra damage, because it hit the neck, whereas I argued it completely SEVERED the head. Anyway, that's not the point.

I remember finding attack penalties and extra damage values for specific parts of the body, and I wanted to show him the table that I swear I've seen before.
Duvanok
09-19-04, 02:15 AM Called shots do exist in core D&D, but only when attacking a hydra. Which is just plain bad game design, really.

Amen! I ran a hydra against my group a while back, I'll never do it again, too confusing. What the hell were they thinking on this one?
Timely Drought
09-19-04, 02:18 AM Huh? If you're arguing that vorpal instakills, why are you looking for a table that has damage modifers based on called shots to support your argument? Anyway, there is no such thing in D&D 3.X. It must have been for another game, or a third-party supplement for the d20 system.

From the SRD:
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/magicItemsAW.html

Vorpal: This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes. Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off. A vorpal weapon must be a slashing weapon. (If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.)

Strong necromancy and transmutation; CL 18th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, circle of death, keen edge; Price +5 bonus.
Thorak
09-19-04, 09:15 AM Just to reiterate what everyone's saying, in 3.X called shots are a baaaaad idea. For one simple reason; True Strike. It's pretty hard to say that a called shot with an arrow to, say, the eye is anything but an instant kill, and I haven't seen a reasonable penalty that would apply that couldn't be offset by True Strike with ease.
My group had an Arrow of True Strike appear at one point, and the DM used called shots, with -4 to a limb, -8 to a head or small part like a hand or foot, and -12 to a really small part like a neck or eye. The ranger with the Arrow of TS suddenly began killing one enemy of his choice at the beginning of every battle. This lasted until he rolled a 1, eventually, and the DM gleefully snapped the arrow on the wall.

True Strike + Called Shots = idiotically broken.
psionichamster
09-19-04, 10:17 AM called shots were a function of the 2e AD&D rules...

IIRC, you took a -4 to hit, and gained either extra damage or a "crit" hit on a table...

no true strike, and BAB was not quite as insane

the hamster
Adlar Hodge
09-19-04, 01:03 PM If I were to rule "called shots" it would only be broken down into regions:

head (includes neck)
body (shoulders to groin)
arms (left/right)
legs (left/right)

If the player called a "head shot" and didn't specify where I'd assign a -4 penalty to the shot.
If they added "I want to shoot their nose off" I'd assign the -4 as normal and have them roll %die to hit it (like maybe 20% or under to hit) as the target isn't standing still in combat (unless they are held then that's another story).

...but that's just me
Razaiel
09-19-04, 01:36 PM Yeah, called shots are a bad, bad idea. Nothing unbalances a game quite like have called shots. I use a critical hit table that I downloaded for 3.x Ed., and even that has slightly unbalanced the game, but not so much as called shots. I tried using called shots in a campaign once, and the rogue/assasin got a wand of TS and just started sniping everything in sight; it wasn't pretty. So no more called shots in my game.

And yeah, I'm not too thrilled with the hydra either...sunder attacks on its necks?! What the f :censored: is that all about?
NinjaHedge
09-19-04, 01:48 PM Pg 67 of the DMG

edit: oh, you're looking for modifiers. Well, that's as close as I could find.
Grox
09-19-04, 02:11 PM If I were to rule "called shots" it would only be broken down into regions: If the player called a "head shot" and didn't specify where I'd assign a -4 penalty to the shot.

. . . so with the aid of the 1st-level True Strike spell they have a net +16 bonus to the attack roll before bab, virtually a guaranteed hit!

I certainly hope you have very modest effects for combatants struck by these "head shots".
Greyman
09-19-04, 09:11 PM And yeah, I'm not too thrilled with the hydra either...sunder attacks on its necks?! What the f :censored: is that all about?Mythology says that the only way to kill the hydra was to cut off all of it's heads and cauterise the neck so they didn't grow back.   How else do you implement this in 3ed D&D without introducing called shots?
Master Agnald
09-19-04, 09:24 PM My idea is that the only way to put called shots in a game is having the players have to give up a critical (or, instead, not only give them a -X penalty, but also have the called shots don't work unless you roll a natural X on the dice... for example, a 20 for the head/neck/eyes, 17 to limbs, etc) to attack an specific part of the body, and dealing enough damage to sever it. Unless it is a ridiculously huge monster of course... but, hey, that's just me, I just like making up house rules...
General Dorsey
09-19-04, 09:46 PM I think the table you may be looking for was from 2nd edition. I recall that called shots had a -4 penalty to begin with and then were modified from there based on size. So a called shot to the head would be at -8.

I think this is easily implemented in 3.X. The problem comes in with damage. If you allow this system, then with spells like True Strike, there is virtually no way to miss even a head shot. Getting smacked across the face by a storm giant's club should do more than the base damage. Do you automatically make it a crit or at least a threat?

How do you deal with the players who are willing to take the -4 for the called shot, and then an additional -8 to hit the eye with an arrow. We are at -12, but that isn't that big of a deal at the higher levels. An arrow through the eye should be near fatal. Even granting an automatic critical hit, that will only be 3x damage. Most high level monsters can handle a measly 3d8.

You could force a Fortitude save DC 15 + damage dealt as if it were massive damage. That may work. I would say that if you do this, you may want to not use the autocritical I mentioned. As the characters get higher level, this save becomes almost impossible to make. That would make things like Vorpal worth less than it currently is.

Personally, I think that called shots have their place in certain circumstances (the hydra, Achilles, etc.) but overall they aren't necessary to enjoy the game.
bootor
09-19-04, 11:56 PM My group house ruled that with a "called shot" you could take a -X to an attack an get a +X/2 to damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SuperFrosty 09-19-04, 01:42 AM	I recall scanning over a table that had the mods for your attack rolls if you were to target a specific body part, such as the head (-8 penalty, IIRC). Does anyone know WHERE the hell I saw this table?
JabberWocky 09-19-04, 01:44 AM	It wasn't in any core rulebook, that's for sure. There are no rules in core D&D that cover called shots, simply for balance reasons.
SuperFrosty 09-19-04, 01:49 AM	Eh, I give up. I've asked everywhere...
Timely Drought 09-19-04, 01:49 AM	A terrible idea to implement, but I've seen a base -4 to attack on top of a modifier based on the body part size, provokes AoO. Called shots do exist in core D&D, but only when attacking a hydra. Which is just plain bad game design, really.
SuperFrosty 09-19-04, 01:50 AM	I don't so much want to implement it as I want to freaking find the table. Do you remember where that was?
Timely Drought 09-19-04, 01:52 AM	I don't so much want to implement it as I want to freaking find the table. Do you remember where that was?On some web forum. Are you looking for official rules? You will thankfully not find any, to my knowledge. And it wasn't a crit table, just the rule I gave for a special attack action with miscellaneous effects based on the DM's whim. I've heard about some called shot rules in a third party d20 supplement, but I forget which.
SuperFrosty 09-19-04, 01:56 AM	Grrr...well, I play half the time, DM half the time. Our other DM and I were having a debate about the effects of "vorpal". He claimed it merely did extra damage, because it hit the neck, whereas I argued it completely SEVERED the head. Anyway, that's not the point. I remember finding attack penalties and extra damage values for specific parts of the body, and I wanted to show him the table that I swear I've seen before.
Duvanok 09-19-04, 02:15 AM	Called shots do exist in core D&D, but only when attacking a hydra. Which is just plain bad game design, really. Amen! I ran a hydra against my group a while back, I'll never do it again, too confusing. What the hell were they thinking on this one?
Timely Drought 09-19-04, 02:18 AM	Huh? If you're arguing that vorpal instakills, why are you looking for a table that has damage modifers based on called shots to support your argument? Anyway, there is no such thing in D&D 3.X. It must have been for another game, or a third-party supplement for the d20 system. From the SRD: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/magicItemsAW.html Vorpal: This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes. Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off. A vorpal weapon must be a slashing weapon. (If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.) Strong necromancy and transmutation; CL 18th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, circle of death, keen edge; Price +5 bonus.
Thorak 09-19-04, 09:15 AM	Just to reiterate what everyone's saying, in 3.X called shots are a baaaaad idea. For one simple reason; True Strike. It's pretty hard to say that a called shot with an arrow to, say, the eye is anything but an instant kill, and I haven't seen a reasonable penalty that would apply that couldn't be offset by True Strike with ease. My group had an Arrow of True Strike appear at one point, and the DM used called shots, with -4 to a limb, -8 to a head or small part like a hand or foot, and -12 to a really small part like a neck or eye. The ranger with the Arrow of TS suddenly began killing one enemy of his choice at the beginning of every battle. This lasted until he rolled a 1, eventually, and the DM gleefully snapped the arrow on the wall. True Strike + Called Shots = idiotically broken.
psionichamster 09-19-04, 10:17 AM	called shots were a function of the 2e AD&D rules... IIRC, you took a -4 to hit, and gained either extra damage or a "crit" hit on a table... no true strike, and BAB was not quite as insane the hamster
Adlar Hodge 09-19-04, 01:03 PM	If I were to rule "called shots" it would only be broken down into regions: head (includes neck) body (shoulders to groin) arms (left/right) legs (left/right) If the player called a "head shot" and didn't specify where I'd assign a -4 penalty to the shot. If they added "I want to shoot their nose off" I'd assign the -4 as normal and have them roll %die to hit it (like maybe 20% or under to hit) as the target isn't standing still in combat (unless they are held then that's another story). ...but that's just me
Razaiel 09-19-04, 01:36 PM	Yeah, called shots are a bad, bad idea. Nothing unbalances a game quite like have called shots. I use a critical hit table that I downloaded for 3.x Ed., and even that has slightly unbalanced the game, but not so much as called shots. I tried using called shots in a campaign once, and the rogue/assasin got a wand of TS and just started sniping everything in sight; it wasn't pretty. So no more called shots in my game. And yeah, I'm not too thrilled with the hydra either...sunder attacks on its necks?! What the f :censored: is that all about?
NinjaHedge 09-19-04, 01:48 PM	Pg 67 of the DMG edit: oh, you're looking for modifiers. Well, that's as close as I could find.
Grox 09-19-04, 02:11 PM	If I were to rule "called shots" it would only be broken down into regions: If the player called a "head shot" and didn't specify where I'd assign a -4 penalty to the shot. . . . so with the aid of the 1st-level True Strike spell they have a net +16 bonus to the attack roll before bab, virtually a guaranteed hit! I certainly hope you have very modest effects for combatants struck by these "head shots".
Greyman 09-19-04, 09:11 PM	And yeah, I'm not too thrilled with the hydra either...sunder attacks on its necks?! What the f :censored: is that all about?Mythology says that the only way to kill the hydra was to cut off all of it's heads and cauterise the neck so they didn't grow back.   How else do you implement this in 3ed D&D without introducing called shots?
Master Agnald 09-19-04, 09:24 PM	My idea is that the only way to put called shots in a game is having the players have to give up a critical (or, instead, not only give them a -X penalty, but also have the called shots don't work unless you roll a natural X on the dice... for example, a 20 for the head/neck/eyes, 17 to limbs, etc) to attack an specific part of the body, and dealing enough damage to sever it. Unless it is a ridiculously huge monster of course... but, hey, that's just me, I just like making up house rules...
General Dorsey 09-19-04, 09:46 PM	I think the table you may be looking for was from 2nd edition. I recall that called shots had a -4 penalty to begin with and then were modified from there based on size. So a called shot to the head would be at -8. I think this is easily implemented in 3.X. The problem comes in with damage. If you allow this system, then with spells like True Strike, there is virtually no way to miss even a head shot. Getting smacked across the face by a storm giant's club should do more than the base damage. Do you automatically make it a crit or at least a threat? How do you deal with the players who are willing to take the -4 for the called shot, and then an additional -8 to hit the eye with an arrow. We are at -12, but that isn't that big of a deal at the higher levels. An arrow through the eye should be near fatal. Even granting an automatic critical hit, that will only be 3x damage. Most high level monsters can handle a measly 3d8. You could force a Fortitude save DC 15 + damage dealt as if it were massive damage. That may work. I would say that if you do this, you may want to not use the autocritical I mentioned. As the characters get higher level, this save becomes almost impossible to make. That would make things like Vorpal worth less than it currently is. Personally, I think that called shots have their place in certain circumstances (the hydra, Achilles, etc.) but overall they aren't necessary to enjoy the game.
bootor 09-19-04, 11:56 PM	My group house ruled that with a "called shot" you could take a -X to an attack an get a +X/2 to damage.