Post/Author/DateTime	Post
splat78423 06-17-07, 01:45 AM	That was the best example of the worst DMing I've ever witnessed in the history of the game! The DM went out of his way to kill my charecter by blantly utilizing a banned d20 (loaded) to kill off my PC! Five meetup members voted to ban this d20 a few sessions ago and only three voted to reinstate it at this game (three players that were not part of the previous vote) only to be rolled against my rogue cause I was the best player at roleplaying his PC at the session. Sorry if you guys (including the DM) were outmatched but Rumray should have been allowed to play the role and not the role that everyone else had wanted him to play......This was after the DM made me reroll my initiative shortly after he asked me for an action full well knowing that I had the higher initiative but he "forgot" (selective hearing) to write it down.....I quit the Genesis campaign and will let everyone know that its a waste of time for you if you are looking for a legit game. My rogue, Rumray, has always made it clear to the party that if the battle turns on them he will leave them for dead. This is not ground breaking news (unless you have selective hearing) and they continued adventuring with him anyways. When a battle went south one session Rumray retreated (as would most neutral evil charecters) while witnessing everyone else in the party at either negative hit points or 3 hp. The rogue scooped up the Rod of Lordly Might and proceeded to coup de grace the fallin fighter and then take off into the woods. Sure it wasnt the nicest thing to do to a fellow player but I do my best to play my charecter's role. Rumray hears the death cry of the monster a round later while he wheels around to take care of the remaining PC. Afterall, this treachury was worth a Rod of Lordly Might right (hey, Rumray IS/WAS evil afterall)? A low level psion stands above the fallen and says "What did you do?" The DM allows him to make FIVE spot checks to REMEMBER if he saw my charecter coup de grace the other PC. I dont know how that makes any sense...... The rogue raises a bow to the poor psion with 3 hit points left (a sitting duck) and they exchange a few words. I declare that I fire my bow and the DM justly asks for initiative rolls. The psion player rolls an 8 or a 9 and tells the DM as I roll a 13 and inform the DM . DM looks to me for an action so I roll a an attack roll of 23 and the other player compares it to his AC. I roll a 6 for damage. The DM declares that he cant allow me to get away with this and says that he didnt write down my initiative roll therfore I must reroll it....he claims he didnt hear me declare my initiative roll but he knew to compare my attack roll to the psions AC, what a bunch of bull! I decided at that point on that I will NEVER play Genesis again. After reminding the DM to pay attention he makes me reroll the initiative and its lower so the DM says my attack never happened! At this point, if the DMing couldint get any worse, he takes out a known loaded Die and hands it to Chris (the psion) to use against my rogue during combat which was rolled from that point on four times against my PC. the bottom line is this......What I just typed is hands down, word for word, EXACTLY what happened and I'll be asking Wizards of the Coast people what they think of this so I can relay their opinion to our message board. I'm sure they'll admit that my PC was a bad guy (as have I at almost every session) but they will also side with me.....I mean come one, a loaded die? Everyone registered at my D&D site has voted against the use of that die for god sake!
koiulpoi 06-17-07, 03:01 AM	Well, there's always two sides to every story, but the way you've typed it really makes it sound like you have a bad DM. Not the worst I've heard of, but bad. What I may recommend to you is to get the players together and calmly discuss this. Communication and problem solving will get your further than wanting the boards to confirm you will.
Meshakhad 06-17-07, 03:04 AM	Hire a ninja.
Ack 06-17-07, 04:53 PM	Hmm... I had to turn my monitor down a little, there was smoke coming off it. :P Okay. Two things to say. One: Playing your character that way, party warning or not, is not good for cohesion. Or to put it another way, "I'll just hang with these guys till I can stab them in the back and take their stuff" is not a good motivation for any character, 'evil' or not. You're supposed to have a reason for sticking around, even when it's in your best interest to be heading for the tall timber. I can understand the PCs and the GM being a little peeved that you pulled it off so thoroughly (and caused a TPK into the bargain). Game over, dude. Campaign over. Or were you expecting all the other players to bring in new characters for you to screw over (with your Rod of Lordly Might)? However, that said ... Two: The way your GM went about trying to 'fix' the situation was way, way, blatantly wrong. You didn't cheat; he did. Loaded dice - bad, bad move. I can understand the motivation, but I cannot condone the methods. Were I him, I would have basically halted the game once the psion was dead, then looked at you and said, "Nice going. Game over. Campaign over. Now hand over that character sheet; your character is an NPC as of right now, and he's going to be your next character's sworn enemy. Rod of Lordly Might and all." So yeah, while I cannot agree with the way he did that, I find it hard to excuse your character's actions - or rather, the way you chose to play your character. Kudos for playing it the way you did - not so great that you chose to kill off the other PCs. Good luck with finding a new game. Try not to be evil next time :P
splat78423 06-17-07, 05:11 PM	I've been running my own campagin for a year I just played in this crappy DM's game cause I'm bored. The reason the other two DM's I know lost players isnt becuase they were killed off its becuase they come to my game and tell me how boring the other two DM's games are. That said, I didnt kill the entire party.....I only killed a newb and then killed a player that has only shown up to the game twice in six months so who cares?
Ack 06-17-07, 05:23 PM	Was 'evil' or even 'self-serving' the theme of the game? If so, no harm, no foul. But if the other players were running stand-up characters (and you should know better than do that to a newb - shame on you) then PVP is not the right thing to do. Not. Sorry that I'm not jumping on the bandwagon here, but IMO you were at fault in one way and the GM was at fault in another. His transgression was worse - but you were not blameless. You just did it within the (written) rules.
DM Denubis 06-17-07, 05:25 PM	In the DM's defense, you did pretty much completely ruin the campaign by the point. You violated the biggest metagame rule of all. You don't stab the party in the back. I don't approve of his methods, however. It's far easier to simply say, "Hey, pack up your stuff and leave." What a waste of effort and time.
Zaver 06-17-07, 05:59 PM	I've been running my own campagin for a year I just played in this crappy DM's game cause I'm bored. The reason the other two DM's I know lost players isnt becuase they were killed off its becuase they come to my game and tell me how boring the other two DM's games are. That said, I didnt kill the entire party.....I only killed a newb and then killed a player that has only shown up to the game twice in six months so who cares? Wow. I'm glad I don't have to play with you. You've got a DM that resorts to cheating to try and solve problems, and your one of the most selfish people I've seen posting here.
MagickHobo 06-17-07, 06:27 PM	I've been running my own campagin for a year I just played in this crappy DM's game cause I'm bored. The reason the other two DM's I know lost players isnt becuase they were killed off its becuase they come to my game and tell me how boring the other two DM's games are. That said, I didnt kill the entire party.....I only killed a newb and then killed a player that has only shown up to the game twice in six months so who cares? Probably the newb and the guy that's only showed up twice in 6 months. and the rest of the party, considering how they gave the a-ok to use the loaded dice on you. You should use the search function (if you have it) to find the "That guy..." thread. You sound like you're "that guy." Also, ruining someone else's game because you're bored is a :censored: move. Not that using loaded dice against you isn't... personally I wouldn't have even allowed that character because of the "no evil characters" houserule to stop this kind of hootinany. And as a DM, it's much easier to say "rocks fall from the sky, everyone dies."
Xavorin 06-17-07, 06:28 PM	@ the OP: I'd say that you are partly at fault, since stabbing party members in the back isn't good for the party as a whole. However, that's probably some of the best roleplaying I've seen in a while: You played your character exactly how it should have been. The DM shouldn't have let you play a NE character in the first place if he didn't want something like this to happen. Also, when I first read the part about the DM using a loaded die that was not only loaded, but also banned by the group as a whole, this happened to me: :headexplo. If my DM ever used a loaded die, I'd just leave. If he was displeased at your roleplaying, he should have acted like an adult and talked to you about it, rather than acting like a bratty kid who throws a temper tantrum (or in this case gives a player a loaded die to use) when something happens that he doesn't like. So IMHO, I'd sit down and talk to your DM. Tell him that you're sorry that your roleplaying caused an almost TPK, and that it won't happen again. However, also say that letting a player use a die that was already banned is not okay, and that if he didn't like your roleplaying he should have talked to you about it. Then chuck the offending die in the trash. Or swallow it.
DarkNick 06-17-07, 09:34 PM	I don't think you realise why they felt compelled to use such drastic measure to give you the stiff. The more mature thing to do would probably have been for the DM to tell you "you are playing like a complete bastard, we don't want you to play in our group anymore". Instead they took the more vindictive and satisfying route of killing you off. I guess you got what you deserved. You have decided to leave so it had the desired effect. Time to move on and disrupt another group....
was_fired 06-17-07, 09:51 PM	Ummm I thought you said you would run away in such situations? If so why in god's name would you waste all that time killing party members? You wasted a move or standard action to take the rod, which I can understand. Then you wasted a full round action to perform a CdG for no apparent reason. That's a full turn's worth of running for your life right there. After that logic returns and your GM was heavy handed, but why the CdG... that isn't self serving it's just plain stupid.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-18-07, 12:38 AM	I've been running my own campagin for a year I just played in this crappy DM's game cause I'm bored. The reason the other two DM's I know lost players isnt becuase they were killed off its becuase they come to my game and tell me how boring the other two DM's games are. That said, I didnt kill the entire party.....I only killed a newb and then killed a player that has only shown up to the game twice in six months so who cares? Hmm another case of a DMeve. Seriously dude what you did was just plain wrong. Stop over compensating for what nature deprived you of. Picking on a "newb", and killing off both the characters had no reason to it all. You did that to show off. If it were me, I'd have ejected you from the game on the spot. Further given you attitude towards other players I find hard to believe you can attract anyone to play with you at all. As for you DM and the loaded dai? I really don't care about that. He handled a bad situation poorly, but got a good result out of it. The team killing ****tard has left his group. Everyone will better off now.
Derren S. 06-18-07, 01:06 AM	Was the die really loaded or simply a badly manufactured one?
sbattisti 06-18-07, 01:19 AM	I don't really ever "get" players who play evil characters in a primarily good campaign, then complain when people get angry at them because "they're just playing in-character." Just because you said "I'm going to play an evil character" doesn't make it great role-playing when you screw everyone over. Really, folks, is there EVER a scenario where a group of players playing together are going to enjoy it when one of the party turns against them in some underhanded way? When you turn one or more players against the rest of the party, as a DM you're in a no-win situation, because either the evil guy is going to accomplish something bad, aggravating the good players, or the good players will foil his attempt, which may have been in the works for many sessions, aggravating the evil player. Either way, you have 1 or more unhappy players in your campaign now. Whee. Who cares if you told them ahead of time, and they agreed to adventure with you? What were they supposed to say, "Sorry, you're being a 'tard, we won't adventure with you, please roll up a new character"? (In retrospect, YES, they should have said that. But, not knowing then what they do now, and understanding that you were a new addition to the group, they probably would have been nice people and assumed that "evil character" wouldn't mean "will TPK us as soon as we turn our backs".) I guess my point is the same as everyone else's: I agree that the DM handled it very poorly, and deserves 30 lashes with a wet noodle. But, it sounds like you ain't winning the "Best Guy to Game With" award for the month either. Your fantastic roleplaying has ended the campaign. Way to go!! Now you can go back to your own campaigns, which are apparently so great that you yourself are so bored that you're seeking other games. Meanwhile, the DM and other players can go back to playing games where they don't feel the need to pull out the loaded die. Mission accomplished!
Ayra 06-18-07, 04:07 AM	I've been running my own campagin for a year I just played in this crappy DM's game cause I'm bored. The reason the other two DM's I know lost players isnt becuase they were killed off its becuase they come to my game and tell me how boring the other two DM's games are. That said, I didnt kill the entire party.....I only killed a newb and then killed a player that has only shown up to the game twice in six months so who cares? You're pretty damn arrogant. What? You think your own campaign is so good that you have to ruin the campaign of a "crappy" DM? The DM isn't the only one who makes the game work. The players play their fair share as well. Rather than whining about the DM, you should look at what went wrong in the big picture. If he used loaded dice* it was just because your actions basically ruined the game for everyone else but yourself, for no apparent reason. I use the houserule that the party has to help each other. You entrust your life to your fellow party members. They will be the ones pouring cure serious wounds in your mouth once you're dying. Their skills will help you out of tough situations. Anyway, needless to say it all got triggered by you. What do you expect the DM to do after the whole party got killed because some player figured that killing off the party was a good idea? I'd say good riddance to you leaving the group. * Loaded dice? I've never heard of this. If the DM didn't condone with the action and wanted to take care of it, he could just give the other player something. "You feel a tingling sensation and you feel really certain about your qualities in hitting your opponent", granting him one true strike rather than using loaded dice. Sorry to say, but it is just weird to use loaded dice when they are so many other options that aren't necessarily good either, but don't require loaded dice. It just seems as if you're using this to slander your "crappy" DM some more.
RobbyPants 06-18-07, 12:58 PM	There are several problems evident in the OP: Assuming everything posted is accurate, the DM was being immature to force a re-roll of initiative. If he asked the rogue for his action, than it should be fairly well understood that it was his turn in combat. Handing the uber die to the psion is just bad gaming in general. If the die is loaded, then that's blatant cheating. If the DM maintains that the die is not loaded, then he should have no problem letting the rogue roll with it as well. After all, it puts them on equal footing. The OP was playing the NE rogue in such a way that no group would want to adventure with him. I'm not saying he did a bad job with the RP. The problem lies with that personality type. I guess, what I would have done in my game, is to just start a new campaign after that point. It seems like most (or all) of the group is dead, save the rogue. I'd have to have the rogue be an NPC if I were continuing in the same setting (assuming there were survivors). It's this type of behavior that makes me declare that all players need to roll up group-oriented PCs. I don't restirct alignment (although certain chaotic and/or evil alignments can be hard to justify), but it's no fun watching the whole thing fall apart like this either.
Elrond Hubbard 06-18-07, 02:15 PM	Steve, stop being a douchebag. Stop it now.
Anodai 06-18-07, 02:51 PM	Steve, stop being a douchebag. Stop it now. LOL, Cryosilver's guide to dealing with "Steve's", right?
darkeness 06-18-07, 03:38 PM	Wow. I'm glad I don't have to play with you. You've got a DM that resorts to cheating to try and solve problems, and your one of the most selfish people I've seen posting here. I have to agree. However, that's probably some of the best roleplaying I've seen in a while Sounds more like childish behavior to me. I guess you got what you deserved. Nuf said.
Ack 06-18-07, 03:50 PM	I'll add one more thing here. You roleplayed well ... for a solo game. Unfortunately, it wasn't a solo game (until you killed off the other party members anyway). And you could have gotten clean away with the Rod; CdGing the fighter and then going back to take out the psion was just plain spite. For a group game, you were being a dick. It's that simple.
Stumm_Dolch 06-18-07, 03:58 PM	Yep, bad DM... but not for why you think. Bad DM for letting someone with your personality play an evil character, let alone a rogue in a cooperative game. Bad DM, worse PC.
Phrennzy 06-18-07, 04:14 PM	dewd dont let these other guyz get on u for ur leetzor playing skillz!!!1! ubeat the other plyers and they had to cheat u liek babys screw tham all n run ur game cause u r bettor dm then that other doosh ' play 4 urself 1st amirite?
RobbyPants 06-18-07, 04:17 PM	I'll add one more thing here. You roleplayed well ... for a solo game. Unfortunately, it wasn't a solo game (until you killed off the other party members anyway). And you could have gotten clean away with the Rod; CdGing the fighter and then going back to take out the psion was just plain spite. For a group game, you were being a dick. It's that simple. Yeah, that's a lot of what I was getting at earlier, but in a much more concise fashion. The PC did what he was supposed to, but the player didn't. Still, the DM's response was pretty crappy too! :P I think they both need an out-of-game chat with eachother to set some acceptable ground rules.
MagickHobo 06-18-07, 04:35 PM	Yeah, that's a lot of what I was getting at earlier, but in a much more concise fashion. The PC did what he was supposed to, but the player didn't. Still, the DM's response was pretty crappy too! :P I think they both need an out-of-game chat with eachother to set some acceptable ground rules. i don't know, pulling out a loaded dice (that almost everyone voted back in? it won by majority atleast..) and flat nerfing/ret-conning an entire combat round so that the rogueman loses... that sends a pretty strong message. I like this DM, he's got style. :cool:
Ayra 06-18-07, 05:06 PM	Yeah, that's a lot of what I was getting at earlier, but in a much more concise fashion. The PC did what he was supposed to, but the player didn't. Still, the DM's response was pretty crappy too! :P I think they both need an out-of-game chat with eachother to set some acceptable ground rules. I'm having trouble believing the DM would whip out a loaded die... I mean, it's a loaded die! I can understand if the die is bought for fun and used in a bogus session to scare the players, but if everyone is aware of the die being loaded, then he might as well tell the rogue "Your head gets all bloated and starts to enlarge, until it eventually explodes and leaves a big splatter of blood on the floor. Strangely, there are not many brain splatters." DM's CAN'T cheat. Why would he use a loaded die? Sure he gives it to the player, but he might as well have told the player he had a spontaneous true strike for one round. (Then tell him that Xom, the God of Chaos, has taken a liking to him and sees him as his play toy. Yay for dungeon crawl!)
Elrond Hubbard 06-18-07, 05:25 PM	DM's CAN'T cheat. ???? If I was DMing, this guy would have been struck by lightning, repeatedly, after the first PK. Steve: "What? Where did that come from?" Me: "You've displeased your god." Steve: "I don't have a god!" Me: "Roll another Reflex save. Your god is angry that you have denied His presence in your life." Steve: "I get a... 34. And I have evasion." Me: "You take..." (holding empty hand above DM screen, rolling invisible Dice of Silence out onto the table) "... how many HP do you have left?" Steve: "42." Me: "You take 51 points of damage. Roll % dice to congeal." Steve: "What?!?!?!?" Me: "Rumray dies. Now, let me explain what will happen to your character next time you refuse to stop being a douchebag..."
Phrennzy 06-18-07, 05:31 PM	Me: "You've displeased your god." Steve: "I don't have a god!" Me: "Roll another Reflex save. Your god is angry that you have denied His presence in your life." That is hilarious.
UltimateReality 06-18-07, 05:33 PM	Dear Phrennzy, Sometimes I wish you were not gay so I could have your children. Love, UltimateReality P.S. We could try some kind of test tube donation thingy if you're okay with that?
Ayra 06-18-07, 05:43 PM	???? With the power of rule 0 in your hands, cheating becomes very insignificant. You don't need to cheat... you hold power that is by far greater!
Phrennzy 06-18-07, 05:49 PM	Dear Phrennzy, Sometimes I wish you were not gay so I could have your children. Love, UltimateReality P.S. We could try some kind of test tube donation thingy if you're okay with that? I'm sure I could just do it the old fashioned way. But, I do believe that your husband's name has "TPK" in it, which is too easily converted to "The Phrennzy Killer" and so I have to pass. Although I am sure it would have been the Ultimate experience for me. Yar Har.
UltimateReality 06-18-07, 06:01 PM	But, I do believe that your husband's name has "TPK" in it, which is too easily converted to "The Phrennzy Killer" and so I have to pass.I believe that once he sees the true brilliance inherent in your posts on this thread, he will understand. He will develop womb envy and want me to live his fantasy vicariously. Plus if it's just test tubes I'm sure he'd be okay with that. It's all...clinical...and stuff. Right? Although I am sure it would have been the Ultimate experience for me. Yar Har.Heh, maybe you should PM him and ask. :P
Ayra 06-18-07, 06:25 PM	But, I do believe that your husband's name has "TPK" in it, which is too easily converted to "The Phrennzy Killer" and so I have to pass. Ask if you can borrow splat's DM's loaded die when challenging him then...!
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-18-07, 09:37 PM	Although I am sure it would have been the Ultimate experience for me. Yar Har. It is for me at any rate ;) Ask if you can borrow splat's DM's loaded die when challenging him then...! Hmmm wonder of I still have that cheater dai I took of a player a few years ago. (It didn't have any ones, instead it had 2 20's on it.)
Nall_The_Azure_Guardian 06-18-07, 10:48 PM	:D See this is how I know I'm a good person deep down on the inside past all the sarcasm because this thread just has me rolling on the floor laughing Mr. OP, if that is your real name, do you have any idea how silly this sounds? What? The DM is angry that you killed the party so he took out his anger on you for RUINING HIS GAME? No! I for one happen to think loaded dice are aok when someone needs a little divine intervention :) My DMs used them to hit munkin's in their little heads(and I'm the munkin). It's kinda like a paladin that smites stupid If you don't like a game, you leave it, you don't create problems for players and if you are indeed Tyr's Gift to DnD as you (and every other twelve year old in a five mile radius) claim to be then you don't kill newbies YOU HELP NEWBIES they're new! YOU TEACH THEM TO PLAY WELL AND ARE NICE TO THEM SO THEY DON'T HATE YOU, THE GROUP, OR DND IN GENERAL how hard is that? secondly if someone doesn't play any more than twice in a game and you have a problem with it, talk to the player see, if he dies, HE'S JUST GOING TO BE PLAYING LESS 2+2=4 lesson over ~Nall
Zaver 06-19-07, 02:20 AM	With the power of rule 0 in your hands, cheating becomes very insignificant. You don't need to cheat... you hold power that is by far greater! Yeah, we have the running joke of being magically delicious. If this ever happens a dragon swoops in and eats you. Why cheat when you can just have a CR 26 dragon attack a single player?
TwistedPuppy 06-19-07, 12:34 PM	My only gripe against the DM in this case is lack of imagination in using the loaded die. To be fair, in this case I wouldn't have put that much thought into the problem. I'd have asked for the OP's character sheet, ripped it in half, and told him to leave and not come back until he's 15.
Bat 06-19-07, 01:13 PM	To the OP: Grow up. You played a NE character is a group that was otherwise mainly (if not totally) comprised of good characters. Then you killed two of them and stole from them. What did you expect to happen? If I were the DM you wouldn't be quitting my group, you would have been kicked out as soon as this happened. I agree, the DM handled it poorly as well, but the way he handled it gives his other players (ones that are still in the group) a sense of satisfaction, especially the two you killed. And, really, why waste WotC's time with this? What are they going to say? "Well, we don't like loaded dice either. Sorry that your DM used one."? I mean, what's the point. You mentioned that you were going to post it on some web-site. I presume this is a site you run, but I have no idea. Regardless, posting thier reply about this won't change anything. The DM will still be DMing, you still won't be playing in his group, and he can go on using the loaded die if he likes. I can understand coming on here and venting about this just to get if off your chest, but I fail to see what you hope to accomplish by pulling in WotC. You weren't at a tournament (as far as I know), so they can't do jack smack about this. Since you quit the group, I'm assuming you won't see said DM again (but I could be wrong), so there goes the "I'm going to shove the response in his face" motive. The only explanation I can see is that you're ****** off that your character died, mainly because you think you're a better player/had a better optimized character than anyone else there, and you're hoping that by bringing in WotC and getting thier decision can say: "See, they didn't really kill my character, they had to cheat to do it so I'm still better than everyone there".
kelvinaw273 06-19-07, 01:16 PM	I was the best player at roleplaying his PC at the session. Role-playing is usually defined as a game of co-operative storytelling for the enjoyment of all those involved in which there are no winners and losers. Whatever this was, it wasn't that. The DM's big error of judgement was allowing you and your PC into his game in the first place - shame on him for that. Shame on you for the rest ... does it give you a special kick to know that you ruined everyone else's evening and wasted their time?
splat78423 06-19-07, 02:32 PM	So its ok for a paladin to bring an evil rogue in the group to justice but it is not alright for the evil rogue in the group to do the evil rogue thing right? Ok, now it ALL makes sense......Very well balanced. D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS......I'll rush right back to that game where the DM drones on into a five minute description and then repeats it again after a couple hours of gaming......Meanwhile the players are looking at each other like "WTF". Dont believe the hype, there is a nonchemical cure for insomnia. Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first). The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on!
mac1dsr 06-19-07, 02:45 PM	Was the die really loaded or simply a badly manufactured one? Yeah, this question still needs to be answered. I mean just because 4 people vote that something (a die) has a certain quality (loaded) doesn't mean that it actually does. The beauty of democracy is that it does not actually establish fact, which is why citing wikipedia is roughly the equivalent of citing your cat. Beside a real DM always rolls behind a screen.
sbattisti 06-19-07, 02:50 PM	D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS...... Yeah, but D&D is ALSO supposed to be a game that people play together as a group, for fun. Unless the game is specifically arranged for that purpose, having party members who are enemies doesn't usually end happily.
Ack 06-19-07, 03:07 PM	So its ok for a paladin to bring an evil rogue in the group to justice but it is not alright for the evil rogue in the group to do the evil rogue thing right? Ok, now it ALL makes sense......Very well balanced. D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS......I'll rush right back to that game where the DM drones on into a five minute description and then repeats it again after a couple hours of gaming......Meanwhile the players are looking at each other like "WTF". Dont believe the hype, there is a nonchemical cure for insomnia. Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first). The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on! Enjoy your solo games.
Ayra 06-19-07, 05:20 PM	So its ok for a paladin to bring an evil rogue in the group to justice but it is not alright for the evil rogue in the group to do the evil rogue thing right? Ok, now it ALL makes sense......Very well balanced. D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS......I'll rush right back to that game where the DM drones on into a five minute description and then repeats it again after a couple hours of gaming......Meanwhile the players are looking at each other like "WTF". Dont believe the hype, there is a nonchemical cure for insomnia. Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first). The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on! 1. You don't play an evil rogue when the party has a paladin and vise versa. That is not going to work. Ever. The minute the paladin finds out you're evil, he'll keep a close eye on you. He'll try to backtrack every problem the party has to see if you are to blame for it. He might even decide to talk to you about your alignment, and say that due to your alignment, the party has chosen to take no risks and leave you behind. 2. You start a party in D&D to work together, not to work against each other. Opposing alignments like that rarely work out, especially not with people as immature as you are. 3. The rest of your post makes no sense. Rather than listening to what the DM has to say when he's describing what you're seeing, you want to kill the party because you're evil? 4. Evil is a ver broad term. Evil doesn't necessarily mean you have to kill everyone in the party. Being good, however, means that you don't condone evil acts. When you're evil, you may condone good acts but may have your own approach in achieving them, which would be evil. A good person would save the village by killing the dragon. An evil person would save the village by sacrificing 15 babies to, giving them as food to the dragon. In fact, if he was really evil he'd poison the babies, coup de grace the dragon and loot his treasure. Anyway that's all I have to say.
Pyro_Azer 06-19-07, 05:21 PM	So its ok for a paladin to bring an evil rogue in the group to justice but it is not alright for the evil rogue in the group to do the evil rogue thing right? Ok, now it ALL makes sense......Very well balanced. D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS......I'll rush right back to that game where the DM drones on into a five minute description and then repeats it again after a couple hours of gaming......Meanwhile the players are looking at each other like "WTF". Dont believe the hype, there is a nonchemical cure for insomnia. Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first). The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on! First off unless it was a group of paladins i doubt a party would allow this as they probably could not afford to lose their rouge. Second interparty stealing sucks and is harder to deal with than interparty fighting.
geekling 06-19-07, 05:54 PM	Yeah, we have the running joke of being magically delicious. If this ever happens a dragon swoops in and eats you. Why cheat when you can just have a CR 26 dragon attack a single player? Because it is so much more satisfying (for the other players) to let one of them kill the :censored: that was going to :censored: his character up off before you kick the :censored: out of the group. Poetic justice, not letting the DM have all the fun and all that.
koiulpoi 06-19-07, 08:50 PM	So its ok for a paladin to bring an evil rogue in the group to justice but it is not alright for the evil rogue in the group to do the evil rogue thing right? Ok, now it ALL makes sense......Very well balanced. D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS......I'll rush right back to that game where the DM drones on into a five minute description and then repeats it again after a couple hours of gaming......Meanwhile the players are looking at each other like "WTF". Dont believe the hype, there is a nonchemical cure for insomnia. Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first). The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on! 1) I'm currently playing a semi-evil character in a group of neutrals and goods. And guess what? My character never feels the need to eat babies or stab the entire party in the back. My character TRUSTS the rest of the party because she has their back and the party has hers (yes, I'm roleplaying a female.) The party doesn't always agree, but they're still a cohesive group. Would my character die for them? No. That's because I'm leaning evil. But I'll get damn close to dying to protect them, because I owe them for doing the same for me. Then again, my group is pretty mature. 2) Yup, D&D is the land of infinite possibilities, and by your logic, that's unlimited amounts of ruining people's days. 3) I think you're trying to say that DMs actually describing the world around you is boring, and that stabbing your teammates is much more interesting. And yet, you got bored of your own DMing. As someone else said, have fun playing solo. I think Counter-Strike is a better fit of a game for you than D&D. You can yell all day about people cheating, and you can usually kill your teammates, too! 4) Is English your first language? Because ...Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first)... reminds me quite a bit of some mechanical translations I've seen. I'm not being condescending in this (well, maybe a little), I'm really curious if you've learned English after something else. 5) The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on! In the hearts and prayers and thoughts and dreams of us all. Or maybe just you. Because he got killed, and rightfully so. By the way, my favorite way to deal damage to someone who's being a dick is to pick up ALL the dice, roll them, and add them together. The percentile tends to hurt. One of my DMs did that to a player after he asked a demigod if she wanted to have a threesome. Thankfully, it was non-lethal damage.
Zaver 06-19-07, 09:06 PM	So its ok for a paladin to bring an evil rogue in the group to justice but it is not alright for the evil rogue in the group to do the evil rogue thing right? Ok, now it ALL makes sense......Very well balanced. D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS......I'll rush right back to that game where the DM drones on into a five minute description and then repeats it again after a couple hours of gaming......Meanwhile the players are looking at each other like "WTF". Dont believe the hype, there is a nonchemical cure for insomnia. Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first). The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on! Don't try and get all self righteous here. All you did was kill two characters for no in game reason other then a cliche RP excuse that you're evil. You didn't even RP well seeing as how you admit that you killed the newb and the guy who doesn't show up, it sounds more like you attacked the people you don't like. You have no grounds to defend what you did, which was screw up a game because you felt like it.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-19-07, 09:54 PM	So its ok for a paladin to bring an evil rogue in the group to justice but it is not alright for the evil rogue in the group to do the evil rogue thing right? Ok, now it ALL makes sense......Very well balanced. D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS......I'll rush right back to that game where the DM drones on into a five minute description and then repeats it again after a couple hours of gaming......Meanwhile the players are looking at each other like "WTF". Dont believe the hype, there is a nonchemical cure for insomnia. Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first). The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on! Now theres a hole lot of stupid splattered all in one place. Hmm the evil rogue with lordly might is dead, unless theres something your telling us. And paladins aside, and whatever the middle part of that ment...I failed my deciver stupid check on it...Your still a team killing ****tard. So the best thing for you is to DIAF.
Pyro_Azer 06-19-07, 09:59 PM	You know i can think of excellent group strategies that would allow group combat to be quicker and easier with everyone working together. Then i find people who act like this and know why it doesn't happen.
kelvinaw273 06-20-07, 06:56 AM	So its ok for a paladin to bring an evil rogue in the group to justice but it is not alright for the evil rogue in the group to do the evil rogue thing right? Ok, now it ALL makes sense......Very well balanced. D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS......I'll rush right back to that game where the DM drones on into a five minute description and then repeats it again after a couple hours of gaming......Meanwhile the players are looking at each other like "WTF". Dont believe the hype, there is a nonchemical cure for insomnia. Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first). The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on! Just because you want to get on with the PKing does not make him a bad DM, in this circumstance it just makes you a sucky player. Bottom line is, you set out to ruin the game, and your not happy because you were not allowed to succeed. The DM may be bad, but he is still sounds like a way better DM than you are a player. Either find a group that enjoys exclusive PvP, or learn to play like a big boy.
Harrowdroth 06-20-07, 07:43 AM	hmmm, This looks oddly flame(sque)..
Bat 06-20-07, 08:49 AM	So its ok for a paladin to bring an evil rogue in the group to justice but it is not alright for the evil rogue in the group to do the evil rogue thing right? Ok, now it ALL makes sense......Very well balanced. D&D is suppose to be a game of unlimited possibilities not just PG rated BS......I'll rush right back to that game where the DM drones on into a five minute description and then repeats it again after a couple hours of gaming......Meanwhile the players are looking at each other like "WTF". Dont believe the hype, there is a nonchemical cure for insomnia. Dont let pfizer know cause they'll shoot a lightning bolt out of the sky and strike the DM down for showing proof of concept (unless a player makes a move first). The Rogue of Lordly Might lives on! First off, most people are smart enough to not play an evil character in a group with a paladin because they know it will lead to problems. Yes, there is some metagaming involved in character creation, but this kind of metagaming - the kind that helps the group to avoid interparty conflict down the road - is acceptable and I don't think any DM worth thier salt will put you do for it. In fact, most good DM's encourage this kind of metagaming, as it only makes life easier for all involved parties. I agree that D&D is supposed to be about unlimited possibilities. However, you seem to have taken this to the extreme. You have taken "unlimited possibilities" to "I get picked on or otherwise feel insecure/unhappy/uncomfortable with myself, and the only way I see to feel good about myself is to pick on other people, but I couldn't actually do it in real life, so I'll let my D&D character do it and use the lame-ass excuse of 'Roleplaying my evil character' to justify it". As for the five-minute description that you find incredibly boring: You must have an attention of something close to 2 seconds. When I play D&D, I tend to enjoy those monologues, because it gives me insight into the DM's world (and even if you are playing in a published setting like Faerun or FR, the DM still has thier own spin on it), and generally lets me know what kind of RP the DM might be expecting. It seems to me that you are accustomed to video games and getting action all the time as soon as you want it. You went into D&D because the video games were too restrictive and you couldn't create the character you wanted (ie-a NE rogue that kills his teammates without a second thought just to put a few coppers in his pocket) because the game designers didn't want that concept in thier game. D&D allowed it, so you played it. You failed to take into account other people's fun, however. You completely ruined that session for everyone else simply because you are an insecure, selfish brat. I've said it before. I'll say it again. Grow up. And my questions from before about the involvement of WotC still stand. You never answered them.
Phrennzy 06-20-07, 10:03 AM	This thread delivers.
danielinthewolvesden 06-20-07, 01:55 PM	Was the die really loaded or simply a badly manufactured one? Right. I REALLY doubt if that D20 is "loaded",more likely it is just ome that seems to roll high numbers a lot. There is a "cheater's die" out there, it has another 20 where the one should be. It is nearly impossible to make a "loaded" D20. There are some that are defective that roll some numbers more than others, sure, but hardly enough to guarantee a crit or anything. The DM did not cheat, he just used his lucky die. However, that was not the proper solution, the proper solution would have been to ask the OP here to leave the game. That is what I would have done.
Cariyaga 06-20-07, 02:02 PM	I'd have asked for the OP's character sheet, ripped it in half At that point, if I was on the receiving end, I would get out of my seat and calmly walk up to the DM and deliver a kick to his face. Or ten.
digismash 06-20-07, 02:27 PM	I was the fighter that was killed in this game, and as for being a "newb" I've been playing off and on since the first red basic set, I was new to this group and 3.5 to a degree, but hadnt missed a session since I began playing in it. The response to this thread pretty much speaks for itself so I dont feel like I need to add to it, other than saying 2 out of the 4 rolls with the "loaded dice" were misses, major misses, a 4 and something else. Also if the psion wouldnt have done it the paladin would have. The DM was just trying to make a point. I've played for over 25 years and have never had to deal with a party member trying to kill another party member unless, under a spell, or playing out a role contrived with the DM, etc... That was always just a given seeing as how its a team effort. Eric
Ack 06-20-07, 02:37 PM	I was the fighter that was killed in this game, and as for being a "newb" I've been playing off and on since the first red basic set, I was new to this group and 3.5 to a degree, but hadnt missed a session since I began playing in it. The response to this thread pretty much speaks for itself so I dont feel like I need to add to it, other than saying 2 out of the 4 rolls with the "loaded dice" were misses, major misses, a 4 and something else. Also if the psion wouldnt have done it the paladin would have. The DM was just trying to make a point. I've played for over 25 years and have never had to deal with a party member trying to kill another party member unless, under a spell, or playing out a role contrived with the DM, etc... That was always just a given seeing as how its a team effort. Eric I hear you, dude.
Joseph_Silver 06-20-07, 02:45 PM	I didn't read everything in this thread, but I say that the DM is the lesser of two evils. Just because you're playing an evil character doesn't mean that you have to go out of your way to kill them. I mean, you could've just left them to die, and that would've been in-character. But to coup de grace them before running away? That's just wrong.
godbeepit 06-20-07, 02:46 PM	Wait, so the newb did get killed? It was just with a loaded d20? Oh, well he was a newb anyways he was gonna go down eventually. :D
Ack 06-20-07, 03:15 PM	Wait, so the newb did get killed? It was just with a loaded d20? Oh, well he was a newb anyways he was gonna go down eventually. :D No, the newb did not get killed with a loaded d20. The newb got killed by a fellow PC, who then had the 'loaded' d20 unleashed on him.
koiulpoi 06-20-07, 03:22 PM	So, here's what I've gathered. 1) The die wasn't "loaded", people are just being silly about probability. 2) The "rogue of lordly might" got hit by NINE (unless I miscounted) posts completly destroying his self-righteous (and a bit confusing) argument. All I can say is M-M-M-MULTI KILL
DM Denubis 06-20-07, 03:23 PM	This thread delivers. True story. I was the fighter that was killed in this game, and as for being a "newb" I've been playing off and on since the first red basic set, I was new to this group and 3.5 to a degree, but hadnt missed a session since I began playing in it. The response to this thread pretty much speaks for itself so I dont feel like I need to add to it, other than saying 2 out of the 4 rolls with the "loaded dice" were misses, major misses, a 4 and something else. Also if the psion wouldnt have done it the paladin would have. The DM was just trying to make a point. I've played for over 25 years and have never had to deal with a party member trying to kill another party member unless, under a spell, or playing out a role contrived with the DM, etc... That was always just a given seeing as how its a team effort. Eric Meh. People suck. Just about everyone knows that killing your party members is a sure way to ruin the game. Some people don't know that, and they ruin games. At that point, if I was on the receiving end, I would get out of my seat and calmly walk up to the DM and deliver a kick to his face. Or ten. You seem like you're a lot of fun to game with. If you ruined a campaign through something so stupid, you kinda deserve to get your sheet ripped in half. Assuming I don't just say, "Hey, get out. No, really. Get your stuff and leave."
Ack 06-20-07, 04:03 PM	At that point, if I was on the receiving end, I would get out of my seat and calmly walk up to the DM and deliver a kick to his face. Or ten. Thus going from 'bad player' to 'assault and battery'. I ... think not.
Ack 06-20-07, 04:04 PM	So, here's what I've gathered. 1) The die wasn't "loaded", people are just being silly about probability. 2) The "rogue of lordly might" got hit by NINE (unless I miscounted) posts completly destroying his self-righteous (and a bit confusing) argument. All I can say is M-M-M-MULTI KILL True dat. In other words, the OP has been PWNED by the THREAD. :D
2nd Ed Paladin 06-20-07, 04:19 PM	I think I have to agree with the OP: The DM wasn't very good. The OP's character should have been struck by a meteor before he killed the first PC. I'm sure that is somewhere in the DMG. Clear violation of the DM's duties.
Ayra 06-20-07, 05:23 PM	So, here's what I've gathered. 1) The die wasn't "loaded", people are just being silly about probability. 2) The "rogue of lordly might" got hit by NINE (unless I miscounted) posts completly destroying his self-righteous (and a bit confusing) argument. All I can say is M-M-M-MULTI KILL In my campaign we have one player who is too cheap to buy dice. All the other players are really superstitious. For some reason they bought several D20's and at the beginning test them all, to see which one rolls highest and then they'll use it the rest of the session. In the end every player has a lucky d20, except for this one player who doesn't have any dice at all. (He had dice, in fact players even gave him some dice they didnt use.. he lost them all). Anyway, the diceless player always just picks a die from the table whenever he needs to roll, and the guy is apparently way too lucky. Every time he rolls above a 15, people look at who's die he used and then the owner of the die starts cussing him out for expending a good roll. I suppose that it might have been a die that was rumored to get some excellent results. Maybe the OP made up the loaded part to make the story a bit more spicy. I've never heard of a loaded d20, it has way too many sides to be effective o.o; Ah well.
koiulpoi 06-20-07, 05:38 PM	...Anyway, the diceless player always just picks a die from the table whenever he needs to roll, and the guy is apparently way too lucky. Every time he rolls above a 15, people look at who's die he used and then the owner of the die starts cussing him out for expending a good roll. I suppose that it might have been a die that was rumored to get some excellent results. Maybe the OP made up the loaded part to make the story a bit more spicy. I've never heard of a loaded d20, it has way too many sides to be effective o.o; Ah well. Uhhh... They start cussing him out because he expended a good roll? Wow. That's pretty amazing. I really suggest you send all these people to a website were they can read up on basic probability. I mean, wow. In my group we joke all the time about this. I never thought people actually believed that kind of thing.
Ayra 06-20-07, 05:41 PM	Uhhh... They start cussing him out because he expended a good roll? Wow. That's pretty amazing. I really suggest you send all these people to a website were they can read up on basic probability. I mean, wow. In my group we joke all the time about this. I never thought people actually believed that kind of thing. Well the cussing out thing is all in good fun, it's not meant to be serious and the whole group gets along perfectly fine. It's just a way of teasing him for always losing his dice. However, they do seem pretty serious about their lucky dice ;). I've seen players switch dice in the middle of a session if their previous one didn't perform well enough :p
perdera 06-20-07, 05:42 PM	I think I have to agree with the OP: The DM wasn't very good. The OP's character should have been struck by a meteor before he killed the first PC. I'm sure that is somewhere in the DMG. Clear violation of the DM's duties. Ok, maybe I'm evil, but damn that'd be funny. Rogue: I coup-de-grace the Fighter! DM: Ok, make a Fortitude save. Fighter: Aw man. Ok, I got... DM: No, not you, Rogue. Rogue: Wha?! Uhhh...okay...I got a 21. DM: You die. Rogue: WHAT?! DM: Pulmonary Embolism brought on by your undiagnosed deep vein thrombosis. Tragic really.
DM Denubis 06-20-07, 07:09 PM	I've seen players switch dice in the middle of a session if their previous one didn't perform well enough :p Normal people don't do that? I have two sets that I rotate, so I don't wear out the luck. >.>
crow04 06-20-07, 07:18 PM	Normal people don't do that? I have two sets that I rotate, so I don't wear out the luck. >.> two?!?!? you need at least four, plus one really ugly one, just in case
Max_Graeves 06-20-07, 07:59 PM	DM: Pulmonary Embolism brought on by your undiagnosed deep vein thrombosis. Tragic reallyNow that would be awesome! Oh, just to add my two bits, Mr. OP you are a grade "A" ****tard, and I would wager big money that your arrogant attitude is just an attempt to compensate for some...er..."shortcomings". :devil: I'm currently playing a NE cleric of Nerrul, in a party of generally evil players, and not once have any of us even considered killing another party member. Just because your character is evil, doesn't mean they can't work well with the rest of the party...unless a member of the party is a paladin, but that's been covered.
kelvinaw273 06-21-07, 03:32 AM	At that point, if I was on the receiving end, I would get out of my seat and calmly walk up to the DM and deliver a kick to his face. Or ten. The maturity of your response is probably directly proportional to your ability to deliver on said statement, unless you are writing from within a prison cell which is where that attitude will get you if you can actually deliver on it. I was the fighter that was killed in this game, and as for being a "newb" I've been playing off and on since the first red basic set, I was new to this group and 3.5 to a degree, but hadnt missed a session since I began playing in it. <snip> Eric Thank you for posting, you have confirmed what everyone who read the OPs post inferred from it: the dice wasn't loaded, the OP is acting like a jerk. DM: Pulmonary Embolism brought on by your undiagnosed deep vein thrombosis. Tragic really. I must remember that one in case I ever have a player this bad :schemes: