Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rillek_Denar 03-12-07, 11:36 PM	...there's some kind of eratta somewhere that allows Clerics to spontaneously cast any spell with the healing desciptor. Can anyone point me to the source of this ruling? It sure ain't what my PH says.
draco1119 03-12-07, 11:47 PM	Not that I've ever heard. AFAIK, it's only "Cure" spells. Of course, he could just houserule it...
Rillek_Denar 03-12-07, 11:48 PM	In my opinion, he has. But he claims it's official.
TRCEttin 03-13-07, 12:20 AM	Never heard of it. Ask him where he found this errata. Print out copies of the Player's Handbook and DMG and all that if you have to. He might be thinking of some feat or class ability or other (check Complete Divine), but who knows.
KillerGM 03-13-07, 01:09 AM	In my opinion, he has. But he claims it's official. And that's the only reason I'd ask to see where he gets the official ruling on it. If it were a houserule, then whatever. But if he's claiming it's official, I'd ask him to produce it. It's only fair that you guys know what your characters are "officially" capable of in game. And since he claims it's official, then I'd ask for the proof. And if he can't/won't I'd call him a dirty dirty cheater. ;) This is more for the long-term effects of such a rule. I'd want to know, because I'd use it in a game I ran if it was official. If he comes into another person's game with this "official" rule in mind, he'd be sorely disappointed.
PsychicKid 03-13-07, 08:33 AM	I know that clerics can spontaneously turn any level spell they have into the appropriate level cure spell. If my Cleric had Magic Weapon and Create Water as his spells for the day, and no one needed healing for that day, hey, great, no problems here. But if someone did need healing, I could go "Oh crap, hey, that guy needs some healing!" and forego one of my first level spells to cast Cure Light Wounds. I'm 99% sure that's how it works.
Black Kitten 03-13-07, 08:48 AM	The point is: Do you consider 'Cure' spells only those with the 'Cure' in the name. Or do you share this under healing spells in general. I believe the exact description outlines 'Cure' spells only.
kelvinaw273 03-13-07, 08:55 AM	There is a feat that allows you to spontaniously cast any spell from a specific domain, and as standard a cleric can cast any cure or inflict from their lists spontaniously by sacrificing another spell of the same level. I think your DM has mis-remembered his PHB myself, but no need to get antagonistic about it - just point it out in the Cleric's description and ask if he is house-ruling that any healing spell qualifies rather than any cure spell.
leroy_brown 03-13-07, 08:59 AM	The only allowed spells would be the cure wounds spells, ie any spell with "cure" in the title as per the PHB; the opposite (for an evil cleric) only allows any spells with "inflict" in the name. I take it you are referring to other spells such as remove curse and remove disease, which cannot be normally spontaneously cast?
Bob Loblaw 03-13-07, 11:25 AM	You can find all the current, official errata here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a I do not remember seeing it, but maybe I missed something.
Karish 03-13-07, 03:43 PM	A cleric can only spontaneously use the "cure" or "inflict" spells, and only those of the appropriate type. Your DM is referring to something I doubt exists in any errata, at least none I know.
Thubby 03-13-07, 06:29 PM	technicaly only spells with the "cure" name can be spontaneously cast (by good clerics). though many DMs houserule more spells there. i personaly say you can use any spell that "channels positive energy to restore HP", and all are subject to my judgement (so far its only added heal, and 2-3 spells from the splats, like the swift ones) there is no erreta on the matter to my knowledge. but the houserule is far from game breaking.
Neutronium_Dragon 03-13-07, 09:54 PM	If that's a direct quote, you might ask him to list those spells with "the healing descriptor". There's no such descrpitor. There are spells of the Conjuration (healing) subschool, but a subschool isn't a descriptor. [fire] [death] and [light] are descriptors. I've never seen a [healing] one, even with Cure Light Wounds.
Rillek_Denar 03-13-07, 11:50 PM	I think I may ask him if this "eratta" also grants evil clerics the ability to spontaneously cast spells that channel negative energy to deal damage. If so, I know what I'm playing next time! ;)
Archangel62 03-14-07, 12:25 AM	Well, he might be thinking of the spontaneous domain variant from PH2.
Vaelan 03-14-07, 12:36 AM	In my opinion, he has. But he claims it's official. Then it is his duty to show you the official source, not your duty to prove that it doesn't exist.
Suzaku455 03-14-07, 01:24 AM	Well, he might be thinking of the spontaneous domain variant from PH2. But it also requires you to have healing domain >.>
Grod_The_Giant 03-15-07, 09:09 PM	The point is: Do you consider 'Cure' spells only those with the 'Cure' in the name. Or do you share this under healing spells in general. I believe the exact description outlines 'Cure' spells only. I actually see this DM's point. The rules were made for the core-only PHB. the only curing spells in there are the Cure X wounds spells. It's not official, but...it's not a huge problem.
Derren S. 03-16-07, 01:47 AM	I had a similiar problem once. A DM claimed that Half-Dragons do not have the dragon type anymore but are only dragonblooded. This change, he said, was official and was made in a reprint of Races of Dragon. I have yet to find such a reprint and as it was an online game he couldn't show it to me...
draco1119 03-16-07, 03:58 AM	I had a similiar problem once. A DM claimed that Half-Dragons do not have the dragon type anymore but are only dragonblooded. This change, he said, was official and was made in a reprint of Races of Dragon. I have yet to find such a reprint and as it was an online game he couldn't show it to me... Personally, I think they should be humanoid (or whatever) with the Dragon subtype, but them's not the rules... :)
Archangel62 03-16-07, 07:13 AM	I had a similiar problem once. A DM claimed that Half-Dragons do not have the dragon type anymore but are only dragonblooded. This change, he said, was official and was made in a reprint of Races of Dragon. I have yet to find such a reprint and as it was an online game he couldn't show it to me... He probably misread or misinterpreted, they have both. The same is true for dragons, they are considered dragonblooded for the purposes of feats.
CaoSlayer 03-16-07, 08:04 AM	Spontaneous Casting A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can "lose" any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with "cure" in its name). An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric of an evil deity), can’t convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with "inflict" in its name). no mention to the [healing] subschool, only spells wih the word "cure". Note that by RAW you could spontaneous cast obsCURE mist XD but anyone trying it in a real game will be kicked in the nutts without mercy.
Derren S. 03-16-07, 03:10 PM	He probably misread or misinterpreted, they have both. The same is true for dragons, they are considered dragonblooded for the purposes of feats. I don't think he misinterpreted it. He knew (i think) that half dragons have the dragon type but he told me that got changed in a 2nd Races of Dragon printing. He even told me on which page this change was printed. What got me thinking (apart from it being very unlikely that such a change is made in a second printing without errata or faq entry) is that I found no one who owns a second printing of this book (and I asked here and on enworld) and that WoTC customer services denies that such a 2nd printing exists.
ArcTan 03-17-07, 12:44 PM	I actually see this DM's point. The rules were made for the core-only PHB. the only curing spells in there are the Cure X wounds spells. It's not official, but...it's not a huge problem. Well, not true. The PHB contains regenerate and heal, neither of which can be cast spontaneously.
ArcTan 03-17-07, 12:45 PM	no mention to the [healing] subschool, only spells wih the word "cure". Note that by RAW you could spontaneous cast obsCURE mist XD but anyone trying it in a real game will be kicked in the nutts without mercy. It's called obscuring mist. The string "cure" doesn't appear in it. Obscure object would work, though. (But what would be the point?)
Willie the Duck 03-18-07, 11:01 AM	I don't think he misinterpreted it. He knew (i think) that half dragons have the dragon type but he told me that got changed in a 2nd Races of Dragon printing. He even told me on which page this change was printed. What got me thinking (apart from it being very unlikely that such a change is made in a second printing without errata or faq entry) is that I found no one who owns a second printing of this book (and I asked here and on enworld) and that WoTC customer services denies that such a 2nd printing exists. None of the "Races of" books have been popular enough to sell out of first printing stock. Very few of the books except the core 3 have had second printings, and I've as of yet not heard of any that have had a change between printings (I don't think errata is added in on reprints). Tell him that this is a fabrication, that it won't be honored when he's not DMing, and you find it exceptionally bizaare since it is so obviously a lie and you can't figure out why he would lie about it in the first place since he can change it as he sees fit. People have this bizaare desire to pretend that their game is pure RAW, and I've never seen one yet.
DrMorganes 03-18-07, 11:58 AM	Let me get this straight: Your DM's ruling is helping you, and you're arguing about it? Sometimes quibbling over rules isn't in your best interest...
LordMongoose 03-18-07, 12:51 PM	Ammo for the future. When your DM gets a rule wrong that hurts you, it helps to have the ethos of having protested an incorrect ruling that helps you in the bank.
holylink718 03-18-07, 02:32 PM	You can find all the current, official errata here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a I do not remember seeing it, but maybe I missed something. Thanks, dude. I'd been meaning to look for this.
Derren S. 03-18-07, 05:42 PM	exceptionally bizaare since it is so obviously a lie and you can't figure out why he would lie about it in the first place since he can change it as he sees fit. That is what puzzeled me. But as he can houserule it anyway I didn't oppenly accused him of lying. And the game sort of died anyway.
Willie the Duck 03-24-07, 02:49 AM	That is what puzzeled me. But as he can houserule it anyway I didn't oppenly accused him of lying. And the game sort of died anyway. Agreed. I think it is some kind of "my vision of the rules are clear and obvious. Therefore, any deviation must be shot down with as official an association as I can bring to bear" mentality.
Saytr 03-26-07, 06:35 PM	The whole thing about only spon casting spells with "cure" in the name has always bothered me. It is rather obvious that a high level cleric would be very interested in being able to spon cast HEAL or Restoration or (other healing spell), despite this: I HAVE SEEN HUNDREDS OF FEATS AND Pr CLASS ABILITIES AND HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS ABILITY IN ANY OF THEM. None. OK, there is something in one of the new books (after how many years and how many books?). You can give up a domain to sp cast the Restoration line of spells, but nothing to spon cast Heal. It's not like no one would want this ability, it's not like it's too powerful, you can cast the spell anyway. What gives? There are Clerical Prc's that specialize in HEALing that don't get it. A 10th level RS of Pelor can't do it? There is a freaking HEALER base class that, while sucking rocks compared to a Cleric, does at least Heal quite well, even gets extra spell-like healing at higher levels. But a 20th level Healer can't even do it? C'mon, it's not like it would overpower the class. NOT EVEN IN EPIC LEVELS?????? My conclusion? It's not there because you can already do it. Or the Ghost of Gary Gygax is holding a gun to someones head at WOTC. Edit: It's probably the Ghost of Dave Arneson, ****** off at never getting any credit. Woooo...!!! You will neeevver let them Spooooontaniouslyyyy Heeeeeeeal...!!! .. sorry about the rant, like I said, .. always bothered me. m
Bopple 03-26-07, 09:28 PM	PHB2 alternative cleric can cast healing domain spells spontaneously. Dungeonscape alternative cleric can cast restoration and its brethren spells spontaneously. Combat Medic can cast heal spontaneously.
Saytr 03-26-07, 09:51 PM	PHB2 alternative cleric can cast healing domain spells spontaneously. Dungeonscape alternative cleric can cast restoration and its brethren spells spontaneously. Combat Medic can cast heal spontaneously. Where's Combat Medic? Book?
Bopple 03-26-07, 09:53 PM	Heroes of Battle
Ace_of_time 03-26-07, 10:02 PM	I do remember seeing it some where but can't remember where, sorry. (I'll keep looking)
Willie the Duck 03-26-07, 10:40 PM	The whole thing about only spon casting spells with "cure" in the name has always bothered me. It is rather obvious that a high level cleric would be very interested in being able to spon cast HEAL or Restoration or (other healing spell), despite this: I HAVE SEEN HUNDREDS OF FEATS AND Pr CLASS ABILITIES AND HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS ABILITY IN ANY OF THEM. None. OK, there is something in one of the new books (after how many years and how many books?). You can give up a domain to sp cast the Restoration line of spells, but nothing to spon cast Heal. It's not like no one would want this ability, it's not like it's too powerful, you can cast the spell anyway. What gives? There are Clerical Prc's that specialize in HEALing that don't get it. A 10th level RS of Pelor can't do it? There is a freaking HEALER base class that, while sucking rocks compared to a Cleric, does at least Heal quite well, even gets extra spell-like healing at higher levels. But a 20th level Healer can't even do it? C'mon, it's not like it would overpower the class. NOT EVEN IN EPIC LEVELS?????? My conclusion? It's not there because you can already do it. Or the Ghost of Gary Gygax is holding a gun to someones head at WOTC. Edit: It's probably the Ghost of Dave Arneson, ****** off at never getting any credit. Woooo...!!! You will neeevver let them Spooooontaniouslyyyy Heeeeeeeal...!!! .. sorry about the rant, like I said, .. always bothered me. m Given the phenominal versitality and healing power of the spell Heal, I don't find it unusual that the game designers don't want clerics or any specific cleric PrC to be able to convert any spell of leve 6 or higher into it. It is one of the few spells you should have to give something up to memorize. Why? because it rocks that much.
Saytr 03-27-07, 01:47 AM	Heroes of Battle Groovy. I leafed through a copy of it once but didn't see it. I'll go check it out again tomorrow. I actually solved this by going Dwoemerkeeper with my fave Cleric, but I don't think I should have had to. A line of feats to spon cast other spells would be a lot better though. Use turn attempts or even drop spell slots like an Archmage if it's too powerful. :rant:
Skrimshaw 03-27-07, 08:19 AM	Rather than convince him he is wrong regarding the errata. I would make a cleric in his campaign, and take advantage of this ruling.
kelvinaw273 03-27-07, 11:18 AM	The whole thing about only spon casting spells with "cure" in the name has always bothered me. It is rather obvious that a high level cleric would be very interested in being able to spon cast HEAL or Restoration or (other healing spell), despite this: I HAVE SEEN HUNDREDS OF FEATS AND Pr CLASS ABILITIES AND HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS ABILITY IN ANY OF THEM. None. OK, there is something in one of the new books (after how many years and how many books?). You can give up a domain to sp cast the Restoration line of spells, but nothing to spon cast Heal. It's not like no one would want this ability, it's not like it's too powerful, you can cast the spell anyway. What gives? There are Clerical Prc's that specialize in HEALing that don't get it. A 10th level RS of Pelor can't do it? There is a freaking HEALER base class that, while sucking rocks compared to a Cleric, does at least Heal quite well, even gets extra spell-like healing at higher levels. But a 20th level Healer can't even do it? C'mon, it's not like it would overpower the class. NOT EVEN IN EPIC LEVELS?????? My conclusion? It's not there because you can already do it. Or the Ghost of Gary Gygax is holding a gun to someones head at WOTC. Edit: It's probably the Ghost of Dave Arneson, ****** off at never getting any credit. Woooo...!!! You will neeevver let them Spooooontaniouslyyyy Heeeeeeeal...!!! .. sorry about the rant, like I said, .. always bothered me. m Or it's just an oversight?:D
Merestil Haye 03-27-07, 12:42 PM	Or it's just an oversight?:DOr it was printed in Complete Divine? Spontaneous Divine Casting allows the featholder to spontaneously cast a spell of the selected domain. So take the Healing domain and the feat, if you want to spontaneously cast Heal - and even mass Heal.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-27-07, 12:54 PM	The whole thing about only spon casting spells with "cure" in the name has always bothered me. Why? The reason that a cleric can swap out a prepared spell for a cure spell is not to power up the class or represent divine healing grace or anything of the sort, it is intended soley in order to allow cleric PCs to prepare other spells in their repertoire instead of just loading up on cure spells all the time as they are normally forced to do. Rather than wasting all their spell slots on CLW and the like and acting as a healing vending machine the cleric PC can now explore other spells and can still heal as required. In short: the only purpose of the spontaneoous casting rule is to make cleric PCs more fun to play, which seems to me to be the best reason of all.
Thubby 03-27-07, 01:45 PM	In short: the only purpose of the spontaneoous casting rule is to make cleric PCs more fun to play, which seems to me to be the best reason of all. well, that, and to blow the living daylights out of undead :P
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-27-07, 02:31 PM	well, that, and to blow the living daylights out of undead :P If that doesn't count as "fun" I don't know what does. ;)
Zandolit 03-27-07, 02:51 PM	Your DM's ruling is helping you, and you're arguing about it? Sometimes quibbling over rules isn't in your best interest... I think it is in the player's best interests in this case, even for purely practical reasons. Because the thing is, anything the PCs can do, NPCs can do too. You can't just accept something as long as it's helping you and then turn around and cry foul if it's used against you. If you don't want your enemies to do something, don't expect your party can get away with it either. If the DM wants to house rule this, fine. If not and the DM insists it's standard, I think it's fair to argue the point.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-27-07, 03:00 PM	If the DM wants to house rule this, fine. If not and the DM insists it's standard, I think it's fair to argue the point. Precisely. If the DM wishes to hosue rule it as such then that is his perogative, but he muct be aware of the actual rules. I would be wary of any DM who insists things are RAW that are not as it makes me wonder about what else he is mistaken.
Saytr 03-27-07, 05:56 PM	Or it's just an oversight?:D Indeed, you are correct. :cookie: to Bopple. Complain enough and someone will shut you up. I never payed attention to the "heroes" stuff Or it was printed in Complete Divine? Spontaneous Divine Casting allows the featholder to spontaneously cast a spell of the selected domain. So take the Healing domain and the feat, if you want to spontaneously cast Heal - and even mass Heal. Yes, we know this. It wasn't a feat or PrC ability. That's what I wanted on the principle that it SHOULD be in there SOMEWHERE in my ever-so humble opinion. And JC! Don't tell me you just read the first sentence and posted! I expect better from you. I quoted you in my sig fer ****'s sake! Still lovin this guy :rant: