Acid Damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Acid Damage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zero_cool
10-19-06, 01:20 PM Handling acid damage:

The Dm and I went into a discussion about how to handle acid damage. He says that acid should do permanent damage to the HP pool because it vaporize skin and bones, it is corrosive. Fire damage is different because it just burn, and unless is at really high temperatures or during long periods of time it can consume things. This is why damage taken from acid is permanent and need Regeneration to recover those lost Hit Points.

I agree, but I am aware that the rules dont take this fact into consideration and i would unbalance the game in great manner. This house rule can affect the entire game by giving acid spellcasters significative advantage. Messing with all acid spells to adapt this single rule would be too hard. Imagine the power of a black dragon with this rule, thus, leaving healing useless.

Everyone seems to agree, but without realizing the balance factor and I am the only rule freak around...

please, someone tell me why this SHOULD NOT be aplied
rks
10-19-06, 01:26 PM Why don't you go along, start up a warmage/sorc/wizard and start spewing acid all over the place? The DM is going to understand fairly quick...
Cifer
10-19-06, 01:43 PM It's not what the rules say at all.

Anyway, there is hardly a difference between fire and acid in that regard. Look at the scars someone suffers from third-degree burns and tell me it's less harmful or permanent.

I'd suggest either again mentioning the balance issue (one of Melf's finest can cripple a low-level character!), further explaining that no NPCs are going to be hit by this (they die at the end of combat anyway) so the thing is pretty much onesided.
Further: Do you expect that wounds inflicted by greatswords would heal in the real world over any period of time less than years? Still, they can be shrugged off by a simple cure in D&D.

Leave the unhealable damage to [vile] damage. That happens at a level when PCs can easily heal it.
SeattleLightning
10-19-06, 01:46 PM Why don't you go along, start up a warmage/sorc/wizard and start spewing acid all over the place? The DM is going to understand fairly quick...

I'm not sure this would work as well as you'd want it to. Except for fast healing, the DM doesn't have to concern himself with long term healing nearly as much as the players do. If the DM's half fiendish 7th level cleric can't heal herself from Melf's Acid Arrow this is a minor inconvenience, but nothing compared to the "new" burden the PC's will have to carry.
NoldorForce
10-19-06, 01:49 PM Fire can do similarly permanent things. So can:
-Cold. Know much about frostbite?
-Electricity. It can do quite a bit of nastiness to the nervous system.
-Sound. Certain medical techniques use sound to destroy things like kidney stones.

Heck, regular physical attacks can do some very permanent stuff if it's applied to the right places, such as irrepairable muscle/ligament/tendon damage.

Pretty much anything that deals hit point damage can and likely will be far more permanent than D&D makes it out to be. This whole system of hit points, ways to heal them, and so forth is an abstraction. If your DM is looking to make combat more realistic, take the above list and stress that D&D is simply not the place to look.
Derren S.
10-19-06, 01:51 PM Acid wounds heal like any other inhury. In school my teached accidentally dripped some acid on my hand and it was a interesting hole. But after some months the ony thing left was a little scar.
Puca
10-19-06, 01:52 PM Regenerate is a spell that players wont really have consistent access to until 13th level (as it is a 7th-level spell.)

So, a level 12 fighter will probably have about 120 hit points.

Now, if that 120-hit-point fighter had been hit with only one flask of acid per level, he would be at 65% of his hit points, max.

And thats flasks of acid.
Imagine if you hit even just a few times with an Acid Arrow?
Or a Fireball with Energy Substitution (acid)?
How fast would that level-12 fighter die when faced with an at CR encounter?

Yeah, its a balance issue. Dont make one energy type the king of all energies.
And its PCs who will suffer.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
10-19-06, 05:28 PM Acid doesn't harm the body any more than fire does. In fact, you're more likely to suffer severe tissue damage from fire than from acid, because once acid runs out of hydrogen ions to react with, say, flesh, it can't cause any more burns. Fire, on the other hand, will only stop causing burns when it runs out of fuel or oxygen. Plus, fire is much better at damaging bone than acids are.

In addition, since the human body is slightly basic, acids will be neutralised that much faster.
crossp
10-19-06, 06:59 PM Fire can do similarly permanent things. So can:
-Cold. Know much about frostbite?
-Electricity. It can do quite a bit of nastiness to the nervous system.
-Sound. Certain medical techniques use sound to destroy things like kidney stones.

All of these are quite true, but you must keep in mind that your characters are heroes. They don't have to worry about things like indigestion, going to the bathroom, the mind-numbing boredom of a long march, or the fact that their constant injuries and resultant healing would drastically increase their likelihood of getting cancer. Localized scarring and the resultant loss in your abilities just aren't in the flavor of D&D. (Plus the rule balancing for something like that would be absurdly hard.)

You guys obviously want a bit more realism, though. My suggestion is to say that energy damage (or even just acid) won't heal from a good night's rest like other things. It actually requires magical healing. (an interesting hinderance at low levels; non-apparent at high levels.) Then give more flavorful descriptions to the secondary effects that alot of those things carry.

DM: You're nauseated for two rounds. ...due to the bubbling exposed BONE on your left arm
Cifer
10-19-06, 07:36 PM You guys obviously want a bit more realism, though. My suggestion is to say that energy damage (or even just acid) won't heal from a good night's rest like other things.
You mean, other things like a greataxe wound or the fractured bones of an ogre's greatclub?
crossp
10-19-06, 08:08 PM You mean, other things like a greataxe wound or the fractured bones of an ogre's greatclub?

Well light to medium cuts (think stitches but no danger of bleeding out) from a greataxe and bruises from a greatclub would heal from bedrest. I would never describe a hit to a PC as crushed bones unless we're talking about a critical or something else that takes a huge chunk of HP all at once. The damage and hp system is really just an abstract math system. It doesn't imply much about how battles should be described, and most people would be out of a battle with even one broken bone (translates somewhat hazily to negative hp in my head).

In any case, I was merely suggesting an alternative rule that follows the flavor that zero_cool's group has ascribed to acid.
fatal error
10-19-06, 10:29 PM Well light to medium cuts (think stitches but no danger of bleeding out) from a greataxe and bruises from a greatclub would heal from bedrest. I would never describe a hit to a PC as crushed bones unless we're talking about a critical or something else that takes a huge chunk of HP all at once. The damage and hp system is really just an abstract math system. It doesn't imply much about how battles should be described, and most people would be out of a battle with even one broken bone (translates somewhat hazily to negative hp in my head).

Then the same amount of elemental damages should be equally 'minor'.
zero_cool
10-24-06, 12:39 PM I thank everybody for your answers. now i have good arguments to drop down this absurd idea of the damage from acid.

Now lets see...

In school my teached accidentally dripped some acid on my hand and it was a interesting hole

o.O geez man!! that sounds like a 1d6 of stupid teacher damage
Draco Strang
10-24-06, 12:51 PM Acid wounds heal like any other inhury. In school my teached accidentally dripped some acid on my hand and it was a interesting hole. But after some months the ony thing left was a little scar.

I can vouch for that:

Back in Chemistry II during high school, one of our lab assignments called for a 45 molar concentration of HCl. The teacher mixed it up in a huge beaker, so there would be enough for each group, and I was standing just a little too close when he knocked it over. The stuff spilled all over the counter, and the fans in the room pushed the vapors right up my nose. I had 2nd degree chemical burns on the inside of my nostrils.

My sense of smell did come back though. Eventually.....
Derren S.
10-24-06, 01:32 PM o.O geez man!! that sounds like a 1d6 of stupid teacher damage

Well, after that I only got A grades in chemistry ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zero_cool 10-19-06, 01:20 PM	Handling acid damage: The Dm and I went into a discussion about how to handle acid damage. He says that acid should do permanent damage to the HP pool because it vaporize skin and bones, it is corrosive. Fire damage is different because it just burn, and unless is at really high temperatures or during long periods of time it can consume things. This is why damage taken from acid is permanent and need Regeneration to recover those lost Hit Points. I agree, but I am aware that the rules dont take this fact into consideration and i would unbalance the game in great manner. This house rule can affect the entire game by giving acid spellcasters significative advantage. Messing with all acid spells to adapt this single rule would be too hard. Imagine the power of a black dragon with this rule, thus, leaving healing useless. Everyone seems to agree, but without realizing the balance factor and I am the only rule freak around... please, someone tell me why this SHOULD NOT be aplied
rks 10-19-06, 01:26 PM	Why don't you go along, start up a warmage/sorc/wizard and start spewing acid all over the place? The DM is going to understand fairly quick...
Cifer 10-19-06, 01:43 PM	It's not what the rules say at all. Anyway, there is hardly a difference between fire and acid in that regard. Look at the scars someone suffers from third-degree burns and tell me it's less harmful or permanent. I'd suggest either again mentioning the balance issue (one of Melf's finest can cripple a low-level character!), further explaining that no NPCs are going to be hit by this (they die at the end of combat anyway) so the thing is pretty much onesided. Further: Do you expect that wounds inflicted by greatswords would heal in the real world over any period of time less than years? Still, they can be shrugged off by a simple cure in D&D. Leave the unhealable damage to [vile] damage. That happens at a level when PCs can easily heal it.
SeattleLightning 10-19-06, 01:46 PM	Why don't you go along, start up a warmage/sorc/wizard and start spewing acid all over the place? The DM is going to understand fairly quick... I'm not sure this would work as well as you'd want it to. Except for fast healing, the DM doesn't have to concern himself with long term healing nearly as much as the players do. If the DM's half fiendish 7th level cleric can't heal herself from Melf's Acid Arrow this is a minor inconvenience, but nothing compared to the "new" burden the PC's will have to carry.
NoldorForce 10-19-06, 01:49 PM	Fire can do similarly permanent things. So can: -Cold. Know much about frostbite? -Electricity. It can do quite a bit of nastiness to the nervous system. -Sound. Certain medical techniques use sound to destroy things like kidney stones. Heck, regular physical attacks can do some very permanent stuff if it's applied to the right places, such as irrepairable muscle/ligament/tendon damage. Pretty much anything that deals hit point damage can and likely will be far more permanent than D&D makes it out to be. This whole system of hit points, ways to heal them, and so forth is an abstraction. If your DM is looking to make combat more realistic, take the above list and stress that D&D is simply not the place to look.
Derren S. 10-19-06, 01:51 PM	Acid wounds heal like any other inhury. In school my teached accidentally dripped some acid on my hand and it was a interesting hole. But after some months the ony thing left was a little scar.
Puca 10-19-06, 01:52 PM	Regenerate is a spell that players wont really have consistent access to until 13th level (as it is a 7th-level spell.) So, a level 12 fighter will probably have about 120 hit points. Now, if that 120-hit-point fighter had been hit with only one flask of acid per level, he would be at 65% of his hit points, max. And thats flasks of acid. Imagine if you hit even just a few times with an Acid Arrow? Or a Fireball with Energy Substitution (acid)? How fast would that level-12 fighter die when faced with an at CR encounter? Yeah, its a balance issue. Dont make one energy type the king of all energies. And its PCs who will suffer.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 10-19-06, 05:28 PM	Acid doesn't harm the body any more than fire does. In fact, you're more likely to suffer severe tissue damage from fire than from acid, because once acid runs out of hydrogen ions to react with, say, flesh, it can't cause any more burns. Fire, on the other hand, will only stop causing burns when it runs out of fuel or oxygen. Plus, fire is much better at damaging bone than acids are. In addition, since the human body is slightly basic, acids will be neutralised that much faster.
crossp 10-19-06, 06:59 PM	Fire can do similarly permanent things. So can: -Cold. Know much about frostbite? -Electricity. It can do quite a bit of nastiness to the nervous system. -Sound. Certain medical techniques use sound to destroy things like kidney stones. All of these are quite true, but you must keep in mind that your characters are heroes. They don't have to worry about things like indigestion, going to the bathroom, the mind-numbing boredom of a long march, or the fact that their constant injuries and resultant healing would drastically increase their likelihood of getting cancer. Localized scarring and the resultant loss in your abilities just aren't in the flavor of D&D. (Plus the rule balancing for something like that would be absurdly hard.) You guys obviously want a bit more realism, though. My suggestion is to say that energy damage (or even just acid) won't heal from a good night's rest like other things. It actually requires magical healing. (an interesting hinderance at low levels; non-apparent at high levels.) Then give more flavorful descriptions to the secondary effects that alot of those things carry. DM: You're nauseated for two rounds. ...due to the bubbling exposed BONE on your left arm
Cifer 10-19-06, 07:36 PM	You guys obviously want a bit more realism, though. My suggestion is to say that energy damage (or even just acid) won't heal from a good night's rest like other things. You mean, other things like a greataxe wound or the fractured bones of an ogre's greatclub?
crossp 10-19-06, 08:08 PM	You mean, other things like a greataxe wound or the fractured bones of an ogre's greatclub? Well light to medium cuts (think stitches but no danger of bleeding out) from a greataxe and bruises from a greatclub would heal from bedrest. I would never describe a hit to a PC as crushed bones unless we're talking about a critical or something else that takes a huge chunk of HP all at once. The damage and hp system is really just an abstract math system. It doesn't imply much about how battles should be described, and most people would be out of a battle with even one broken bone (translates somewhat hazily to negative hp in my head). In any case, I was merely suggesting an alternative rule that follows the flavor that zero_cool's group has ascribed to acid.
fatal error 10-19-06, 10:29 PM	Well light to medium cuts (think stitches but no danger of bleeding out) from a greataxe and bruises from a greatclub would heal from bedrest. I would never describe a hit to a PC as crushed bones unless we're talking about a critical or something else that takes a huge chunk of HP all at once. The damage and hp system is really just an abstract math system. It doesn't imply much about how battles should be described, and most people would be out of a battle with even one broken bone (translates somewhat hazily to negative hp in my head). Then the same amount of elemental damages should be equally 'minor'.
zero_cool 10-24-06, 12:39 PM	I thank everybody for your answers. now i have good arguments to drop down this absurd idea of the damage from acid. Now lets see... In school my teached accidentally dripped some acid on my hand and it was a interesting hole o.O geez man!! that sounds like a 1d6 of stupid teacher damage
Draco Strang 10-24-06, 12:51 PM	Acid wounds heal like any other inhury. In school my teached accidentally dripped some acid on my hand and it was a interesting hole. But after some months the ony thing left was a little scar. I can vouch for that: Back in Chemistry II during high school, one of our lab assignments called for a 45 molar concentration of HCl. The teacher mixed it up in a huge beaker, so there would be enough for each group, and I was standing just a little too close when he knocked it over. The stuff spilled all over the counter, and the fans in the room pushed the vapors right up my nose. I had 2nd degree chemical burns on the inside of my nostrils. My sense of smell did come back though. Eventually.....
Derren S. 10-24-06, 01:32 PM	o.O geez man!! that sounds like a 1d6 of stupid teacher damage Well, after that I only got A grades in chemistry ;)