Adding falling damage to weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Adding falling damage to weapon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
snakeman830
03-06-07, 04:11 PM Okay, I haven't started doing this yet and I wanted to make sure this was legal.

We are in an epic-level campaign and my next character (I'm going to have my Demilich leave soon) is a winged centaur fighter 16 with an intelligent mithril breastplate with the Dimension Door ability. In any case, while this fighter usually just launches arrows like crazy, when that's not enough he goes up about 100 feet above the target (doable in one turn, thanks to a vest of haste) and goes into freefall. When he is in range, he hits with his Frostbrand. Immeadietly after the blow is landed, his armor teleports him to a safe distance above the ground for him to resume flight and stay safe.

The theory behind this is that he adds his falling damage to the blow. I ask if this is indeed the case.

P.S. If he fell from 100 feet, then he does 105D6 damage to whatever he hits.
Need_A_Life
03-06-07, 05:05 PM ...105D6...
So he deals 95d6 to begin with?

Ask the DM... he's already running a high-powered game.

In fact, most things in the Epic Level Handbook are scared to meet you... even the CR 56 I am so fond of.
_Jayne_Cobb_
03-06-07, 05:37 PM P.S. If he fell from 100 feet, then he does 105D6 damage to whatever he hits.

How? :confused:
Zorminster
03-06-07, 09:33 PM eh, if you add the fall damage I would rule that you also take it since that damage is from impact, not actually falling.
mtrpcic
03-06-07, 10:30 PM eh, if you add the fall damage I would rule that you also take it since that damage is from impact, not actually falling.

If you think about it though, that damage is what flesh takes when something hits it going at whatever velocity. Since his sword is hitting something elses flesh at that same speed, I would rule that the enemy takes the falling damage. Of course, if you don't teleport away in time, so do you.
Drodain
03-06-07, 10:44 PM You do 1d6 per 10 feet. Thats an extra 10d6. How you are doing 105d6 I have NO idea. 95d6 base is amazing. Either it was a typo, your math is wrong, or your DM does not care at all what kind of power you have.
TheChilliGod
03-06-07, 11:15 PM Can I also mention that Dimension Door (and similar teleportation spells) carries over momentum?

Meaning that, if you fall 100 feet and use Dimension Door to teleport yourself to the ground from 10 feet, you still have 90 feet worth of falling damage to deal with.

So the FAQ says.
Willie the Duck
03-07-07, 12:05 AM If you think about it though, that damage is what flesh takes when something hits it going at whatever velocity. Since his sword is hitting something elses flesh at that same speed, I would rule that the enemy takes the falling damage. Of course, if you don't teleport away in time, so do you.

Wouldn't matter if he teleported in time or not. Instead of impacting the ground, he impacted a roughly as hard object a few feet above it (his target). Of course the blade hits first, so he might only take 100d6 damage, as the first 5d6 are absorbed by his weapons shattering like glass.

Oh, and he's calculating the 105d6 based on the rules for objects falling upon you, which isn't a straight 1d6/10', but is instead dependant on the weight of the object.

And snakeman830-- no, it is not legal. At least there are no rules that allow it. Also no rules that disallow it (although it breaks the laws of physics for you to inflict that much force upon your enemy without an equal and opposite force upon yourself). The rules for falling objects are genuinely incomplete (for instance, there is no rules set out to see if a falling object hits you or not). Also, unless your breatplate readies his action and can cast a quickened dim door, it isn't going to be able to do so "just in time." There's a reason featherfall became an emediate action spell.
snakeman830
03-07-07, 03:04 PM The 105D6 is calculated from his weight with equipment (2,116 pounds) falling 100 feet.

Please note that the armor acts on my initiative, but not at my direction. Therefore, the Dimension Door does not need to be quickened. I am aware that DD carries momentum, but if you teleport straight up however high, I think I can regain control mid-flight (with perfect maneuverability, I'd hope so).

Note: the sword is the ONLY thing that actually hits my opponent, so I don't think I'd take damage (though the sword might as Willie the Duck pointed out).

Basically, you're saying this is totally up to the DM since the rules are a little fuzzy here.
bobothechimp
03-07-07, 04:46 PM You would only do the 105d6 if you landed on and crushed the poor fellow, causing you to take damage as well.
_Jayne_Cobb_
03-07-07, 05:23 PM The 105D6 is calculated from his weight with equipment (2,116 pounds) falling 100 feet.

First, how in the name of Shad Grimgravy are you wearing 2,116 pounds of equipment?

Second, the target will only take that damage if you do too. The falling damage doesn't represent a magical damage effect concentrated on the point of your blade, it is the damage incurred to both objects when one falls on the other. Whatever damage your target takes, you take it too.
Novabomb
03-07-07, 05:32 PM I dont have the time to find the source, but falling damage caps at 20d6
Ziggaraut
03-07-07, 06:14 PM Hmmm.... Let's see.... Adding falling damage to a weapon, what fun.

Ok, first thing's first. According to the laws of potential energy, the total mass of all of your equipment contributes to the kinetic energy of whatever you hit based on g and the height at which you fall. HOWEVER you do not impart all of that energy to whatever you hit unless you hit it head on. Surely the speed at which your swinging your sword would in theory add to the damage, but the mass of your armor and equipment would not. You would still be falling at the same if not greater speed until you hit terminal velocity. Since dimension door and such spells keep you going at the same speed and acceleration, a 'safe distance' would have to be very high regardless of your perfect meanuverability. Since it's epic, and you have perfect meanuverability despite using wings to fly, I shall ignore air friction at that speed impeding them.

As for Newton's 2nd Law, your weapon would indeed take a large amount of kinetic energy from the impact. Although I personally don't think a sword could deal that much extra damage through that much extra kinetic energy, it shouldn't take that much either. A slashing weapon would embed itself in a target, slowly expending it's energy. Eventually, it would stop in it's target or pass through it, mainly because a magic sword is so sharp. Now a bludgeoning weapon (I prefer the maul <1d10 X3 martial>) would indeed do much extra damage as it would impart a great deal of extra force. Unfortanately, it would take alot of backlash as well. Fortanately, the rules have in it a magic/mundane barrier when it comes to sundering. The 3.5 sunder rules state that a magic weapon cannot be sundered by a non-magic source. Pretty black-and-white, especially when referring to such a heavily enchanted weapon an epic character surely wields.

In Synopsis: Extra weapon damage is a little much as your extra mass (equipment) is not striking your equipment, a magic weapon wouldn't shatter on that kind of pressures, and it may require some sort of check to successfully stabalize after falling at that speed.

R.I.P. Stacy, I hope your happy in catgirl heaven.
FallenWyvern
03-08-07, 01:01 AM Just a quick unrelated note. More of an opinion really. Recently we had in our group a "Dragoon" (FF style) play. So he wanted to know if he COULD jump and fall onto something, how was damage calculated.

I told him treat it like falling damage except because it's a fall on purpose, he takes 1d6 of the fall as subdual and can roll a skillcheck to lessen the fall for him by 1d6 for every 15 he rolls (so if he rolls, with all his skill bonuses, 45, then he takes 3d6 less). He was still falling onto things, but he took less damage than the target.

It worked for me.
Gamili
03-08-07, 09:15 AM I dont have the time to find the source, but falling damage caps at 20d6

Thanks for mentioning this, because apparently everyone forgot how gravity works.
modrukinstealer
03-08-07, 11:51 AM How is the character using both an intelligent mithril breastplate and a "vest of haste"? Both would take the chest slot and being intelligent would make the breastplate a magic item... Or am I missing something?

I'd make you make a diplomacy check against the BP to have it go along with this scheme since if you aren't co-ordinated enough there is a good chance it could get destroyed along with you on impact. Maybe it'd be an ego check instead, I'm not sure. Being intelligent makes it treated like an NPC which means you shouldn't get an automatic success with this, though I suppose if the item was cooperative you could just say that the item agrees to ready an action to use dimension door at an agreed upon height. But then you'd have to have the BP make an Int check to see if it knows how far away the appropriate distance is.

If I was the DM I'd say make a choice, charge and do normal dmg or drop a rock.
Khisanth Magus
03-08-07, 11:59 AM If I were the DM, I would rule this as being similar to a Diving Charge. A Peregrine Falcon in a dive has been clocked at 240 mph, over 100 mph more than the terminal velocity of a falling human, so I think using said rules is more than fair.
Another_Poet
03-08-07, 12:01 PM Are you letting goof your sword just as you hit?

You hold onto that sword and you're taking the same falling damage as the target.

ap
_Jayne_Cobb_
03-08-07, 01:47 PM Are you letting goof your sword just as you hit?

You hold onto that sword and you're taking the same falling damage as the target.

Conversely, if he lets go of the sword only it's own mass and intertia will matter to the hit.
snakeman830
03-08-07, 03:15 PM Okay, I've switched up my strategy. I now take pebbles up and drop them, the wizard in the party uing Polymorph any Object to turn the pebbles into sperm whales. This way, I get the desired effect and stay perfectly safe regardless of how the world works.

:emp: Begin Operation Anvil Drop!

Oh yeah, 2116 pounds is his weight + weight of equipment. For a centaur, this isn't surprising.
Khisanth Magus
03-08-07, 03:38 PM I do like the Hitchhiker's inspired idea you came up with.

Granted, I'm not sure I would allow you to successfully do this from 100 ft in the air if I was the DM. Doesn't exactly leave the wizard much time to get off a relatively high level spell like polymorph any object.
snakeman830
03-08-07, 03:42 PM Actually, it was inspired by another book where the cahracters dropped a humback whale onto a helicopter (:cookie: for whoever correctly identifies the book).

Possibly, yes. Or, if I took the wizard up with me... (I only would need one arm for him anyway).
_Jayne_Cobb_
03-08-07, 03:49 PM Okay, I've switched up my strategy. I now take pebbles up and drop them, the wizard in the party uing Polymorph any Object to turn the pebbles into sperm whales. This way, I get the desired effect and stay perfectly safe regardless of how the world works.

:emp: Begin Operation Anvil Drop!

Oh yeah, 2116 pounds is his weight + weight of equipment. For a centaur, this isn't surprising.

If you have a mage capable of casting 8th level spells there are a helluva lot more useful options than this.
Nathreet
03-08-07, 03:49 PM Character's weight does not help sword go faster. Basically you are chucking a sword from a large altitude. It does some extra damage, but no where near 10d6. Think of how strong you'd have to be to throw a sword 100' into the air, one handed. What kind of strength bonus would that be? Add that to the damage. I would guess about 4-5.
Nathreet
03-08-07, 03:50 PM If you have a mage capable of casting 8th level spells there are a helluva lot more useful options than this.

Telekenisis 15 large greatswords for 45d6 (but only if they all hit; most likely you'll do quite a bit less damage).

Brilliant aura so that your party lands a lot more hits and deals a lot more damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
snakeman830 03-06-07, 04:11 PM	Okay, I haven't started doing this yet and I wanted to make sure this was legal. We are in an epic-level campaign and my next character (I'm going to have my Demilich leave soon) is a winged centaur fighter 16 with an intelligent mithril breastplate with the Dimension Door ability. In any case, while this fighter usually just launches arrows like crazy, when that's not enough he goes up about 100 feet above the target (doable in one turn, thanks to a vest of haste) and goes into freefall. When he is in range, he hits with his Frostbrand. Immeadietly after the blow is landed, his armor teleports him to a safe distance above the ground for him to resume flight and stay safe. The theory behind this is that he adds his falling damage to the blow. I ask if this is indeed the case. P.S. If he fell from 100 feet, then he does 105D6 damage to whatever he hits.
Need_A_Life 03-06-07, 05:05 PM	...105D6... So he deals 95d6 to begin with? Ask the DM... he's already running a high-powered game. In fact, most things in the Epic Level Handbook are scared to meet you... even the CR 56 I am so fond of.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-06-07, 05:37 PM	P.S. If he fell from 100 feet, then he does 105D6 damage to whatever he hits. How? :confused:
Zorminster 03-06-07, 09:33 PM	eh, if you add the fall damage I would rule that you also take it since that damage is from impact, not actually falling.
mtrpcic 03-06-07, 10:30 PM	eh, if you add the fall damage I would rule that you also take it since that damage is from impact, not actually falling. If you think about it though, that damage is what flesh takes when something hits it going at whatever velocity. Since his sword is hitting something elses flesh at that same speed, I would rule that the enemy takes the falling damage. Of course, if you don't teleport away in time, so do you.
Drodain 03-06-07, 10:44 PM	You do 1d6 per 10 feet. Thats an extra 10d6. How you are doing 105d6 I have NO idea. 95d6 base is amazing. Either it was a typo, your math is wrong, or your DM does not care at all what kind of power you have.
TheChilliGod 03-06-07, 11:15 PM	Can I also mention that Dimension Door (and similar teleportation spells) carries over momentum? Meaning that, if you fall 100 feet and use Dimension Door to teleport yourself to the ground from 10 feet, you still have 90 feet worth of falling damage to deal with. So the FAQ says.
Willie the Duck 03-07-07, 12:05 AM	If you think about it though, that damage is what flesh takes when something hits it going at whatever velocity. Since his sword is hitting something elses flesh at that same speed, I would rule that the enemy takes the falling damage. Of course, if you don't teleport away in time, so do you. Wouldn't matter if he teleported in time or not. Instead of impacting the ground, he impacted a roughly as hard object a few feet above it (his target). Of course the blade hits first, so he might only take 100d6 damage, as the first 5d6 are absorbed by his weapons shattering like glass. Oh, and he's calculating the 105d6 based on the rules for objects falling upon you, which isn't a straight 1d6/10', but is instead dependant on the weight of the object. And snakeman830-- no, it is not legal. At least there are no rules that allow it. Also no rules that disallow it (although it breaks the laws of physics for you to inflict that much force upon your enemy without an equal and opposite force upon yourself). The rules for falling objects are genuinely incomplete (for instance, there is no rules set out to see if a falling object hits you or not). Also, unless your breatplate readies his action and can cast a quickened dim door, it isn't going to be able to do so "just in time." There's a reason featherfall became an emediate action spell.
snakeman830 03-07-07, 03:04 PM	The 105D6 is calculated from his weight with equipment (2,116 pounds) falling 100 feet. Please note that the armor acts on my initiative, but not at my direction. Therefore, the Dimension Door does not need to be quickened. I am aware that DD carries momentum, but if you teleport straight up however high, I think I can regain control mid-flight (with perfect maneuverability, I'd hope so). Note: the sword is the ONLY thing that actually hits my opponent, so I don't think I'd take damage (though the sword might as Willie the Duck pointed out). Basically, you're saying this is totally up to the DM since the rules are a little fuzzy here.
bobothechimp 03-07-07, 04:46 PM	You would only do the 105d6 if you landed on and crushed the poor fellow, causing you to take damage as well.
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-07-07, 05:23 PM	The 105D6 is calculated from his weight with equipment (2,116 pounds) falling 100 feet. First, how in the name of Shad Grimgravy are you wearing 2,116 pounds of equipment? Second, the target will only take that damage if you do too. The falling damage doesn't represent a magical damage effect concentrated on the point of your blade, it is the damage incurred to both objects when one falls on the other. Whatever damage your target takes, you take it too.
Novabomb 03-07-07, 05:32 PM	I dont have the time to find the source, but falling damage caps at 20d6
Ziggaraut 03-07-07, 06:14 PM	Hmmm.... Let's see.... Adding falling damage to a weapon, what fun. Ok, first thing's first. According to the laws of potential energy, the total mass of all of your equipment contributes to the kinetic energy of whatever you hit based on g and the height at which you fall. HOWEVER you do not impart all of that energy to whatever you hit unless you hit it head on. Surely the speed at which your swinging your sword would in theory add to the damage, but the mass of your armor and equipment would not. You would still be falling at the same if not greater speed until you hit terminal velocity. Since dimension door and such spells keep you going at the same speed and acceleration, a 'safe distance' would have to be very high regardless of your perfect meanuverability. Since it's epic, and you have perfect meanuverability despite using wings to fly, I shall ignore air friction at that speed impeding them. As for Newton's 2nd Law, your weapon would indeed take a large amount of kinetic energy from the impact. Although I personally don't think a sword could deal that much extra damage through that much extra kinetic energy, it shouldn't take that much either. A slashing weapon would embed itself in a target, slowly expending it's energy. Eventually, it would stop in it's target or pass through it, mainly because a magic sword is so sharp. Now a bludgeoning weapon (I prefer the maul <1d10 X3 martial>) would indeed do much extra damage as it would impart a great deal of extra force. Unfortanately, it would take alot of backlash as well. Fortanately, the rules have in it a magic/mundane barrier when it comes to sundering. The 3.5 sunder rules state that a magic weapon cannot be sundered by a non-magic source. Pretty black-and-white, especially when referring to such a heavily enchanted weapon an epic character surely wields. In Synopsis: Extra weapon damage is a little much as your extra mass (equipment) is not striking your equipment, a magic weapon wouldn't shatter on that kind of pressures, and it may require some sort of check to successfully stabalize after falling at that speed. R.I.P. Stacy, I hope your happy in catgirl heaven.
FallenWyvern 03-08-07, 01:01 AM	Just a quick unrelated note. More of an opinion really. Recently we had in our group a "Dragoon" (FF style) play. So he wanted to know if he COULD jump and fall onto something, how was damage calculated. I told him treat it like falling damage except because it's a fall on purpose, he takes 1d6 of the fall as subdual and can roll a skillcheck to lessen the fall for him by 1d6 for every 15 he rolls (so if he rolls, with all his skill bonuses, 45, then he takes 3d6 less). He was still falling onto things, but he took less damage than the target. It worked for me.
Gamili 03-08-07, 09:15 AM	I dont have the time to find the source, but falling damage caps at 20d6 Thanks for mentioning this, because apparently everyone forgot how gravity works.
modrukinstealer 03-08-07, 11:51 AM	How is the character using both an intelligent mithril breastplate and a "vest of haste"? Both would take the chest slot and being intelligent would make the breastplate a magic item... Or am I missing something? I'd make you make a diplomacy check against the BP to have it go along with this scheme since if you aren't co-ordinated enough there is a good chance it could get destroyed along with you on impact. Maybe it'd be an ego check instead, I'm not sure. Being intelligent makes it treated like an NPC which means you shouldn't get an automatic success with this, though I suppose if the item was cooperative you could just say that the item agrees to ready an action to use dimension door at an agreed upon height. But then you'd have to have the BP make an Int check to see if it knows how far away the appropriate distance is. If I was the DM I'd say make a choice, charge and do normal dmg or drop a rock.
Khisanth Magus 03-08-07, 11:59 AM	If I were the DM, I would rule this as being similar to a Diving Charge. A Peregrine Falcon in a dive has been clocked at 240 mph, over 100 mph more than the terminal velocity of a falling human, so I think using said rules is more than fair.
Another_Poet 03-08-07, 12:01 PM	Are you letting goof your sword just as you hit? You hold onto that sword and you're taking the same falling damage as the target. ap
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-08-07, 01:47 PM	Are you letting goof your sword just as you hit? You hold onto that sword and you're taking the same falling damage as the target. Conversely, if he lets go of the sword only it's own mass and intertia will matter to the hit.
snakeman830 03-08-07, 03:15 PM	Okay, I've switched up my strategy. I now take pebbles up and drop them, the wizard in the party uing Polymorph any Object to turn the pebbles into sperm whales. This way, I get the desired effect and stay perfectly safe regardless of how the world works. :emp: Begin Operation Anvil Drop! Oh yeah, 2116 pounds is his weight + weight of equipment. For a centaur, this isn't surprising.
Khisanth Magus 03-08-07, 03:38 PM	I do like the Hitchhiker's inspired idea you came up with. Granted, I'm not sure I would allow you to successfully do this from 100 ft in the air if I was the DM. Doesn't exactly leave the wizard much time to get off a relatively high level spell like polymorph any object.
snakeman830 03-08-07, 03:42 PM	Actually, it was inspired by another book where the cahracters dropped a humback whale onto a helicopter (:cookie: for whoever correctly identifies the book). Possibly, yes. Or, if I took the wizard up with me... (I only would need one arm for him anyway).
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-08-07, 03:49 PM	Okay, I've switched up my strategy. I now take pebbles up and drop them, the wizard in the party uing Polymorph any Object to turn the pebbles into sperm whales. This way, I get the desired effect and stay perfectly safe regardless of how the world works. :emp: Begin Operation Anvil Drop! Oh yeah, 2116 pounds is his weight + weight of equipment. For a centaur, this isn't surprising. If you have a mage capable of casting 8th level spells there are a helluva lot more useful options than this.
Nathreet 03-08-07, 03:49 PM	Character's weight does not help sword go faster. Basically you are chucking a sword from a large altitude. It does some extra damage, but no where near 10d6. Think of how strong you'd have to be to throw a sword 100' into the air, one handed. What kind of strength bonus would that be? Add that to the damage. I would guess about 4-5.
Nathreet 03-08-07, 03:50 PM	If you have a mage capable of casting 8th level spells there are a helluva lot more useful options than this. Telekenisis 15 large greatswords for 45d6 (but only if they all hit; most likely you'll do quite a bit less damage). Brilliant aura so that your party lands a lot more hits and deals a lot more damage.