Post/Author/DateTime	Post
omizell 03-03-06, 08:28 PM	I really don't understand and I hope someone can help me when your adding a template say vampire spawn, lich whatever do you lose levels because of the ecl or what happens?
TheChilliGod 03-03-06, 09:45 PM	Nah, you don't lose anything at all (unless the description of the template specifically says so, like a zombie loses all original special attacks for instance). With the level adjustment, your ECL rises to meet your number of class levels (and/or monstrous hit dice, if you're a monster) and your level adjustment added together. The rest is pretty easy. Example, A 10th lvl human wizard (ECL 10) undergoes the normal ritual and becomes a lich. He then gains all the cool stuff noted in the template features (+5 natural armor, paralyzing touch, etc.) and then gains the level adjustment noted, so his class levels and his LA add up to make him an ECL 14th character. Hope I helped.
Carmath The Pure 03-03-06, 10:49 PM	To add to ChilliGod's post, what would happen is you'd most likely end up with a PC whose ECL is 4 higher than the rest of the party (I'm guessing this was your main concern). Short of bumping up everyone else, you have a couple of options: Using the XP tables in the DMG, your ECL 14 vampire spawn (continuing the example) will earn less xp per encounter than everyone else. Before long the group will catch up. You could also put a freeze of sorts on levelling. In other words, the character is now 14th level but only has the xp for 10th. He doesn't get to level up again until he has enough xp to reach 15th level. Neither of these help in the short term, though. Your best bet is to keep a close eye on the monsters & other encounters you face the group with, so as not to overpower the lower level ones or allow the VS to dominate things. Non-combat social interaction stuff would work well here--a vampire sawn may be able to wipe the floor in combat, but he's at a distinct disadvantage when meeting with the high priest or taking a boat trip.
pres_man 03-04-06, 01:21 AM	Here is what I would do in my game, though this is hardly core. For each LA, I would treat the character as if it had a negative level. So for your 10th level character that became a lich their progression would look like the following in my game. 10th: all benefits of 10 class levels, all benefits of template, -4 on all skill checks, attack rolls and saving throws, -20 hp, treated as 4 levels lowers for effects (as 6th level). 11th: all benefits of 10 class levels, all benefits of template, -3 on all skill checks, attack rolls and saving throws, -15 hp, treated as 3 levels lowers for effects (as 8th level). 12th: all benefits of 10 class levels, all benefits of template, -2 on all skill checks, attack rolls and saving throws, -10 hp, treated as 2 levels lowers for effects (as 10th level). 13th: all benefits of 10 class levels, all benefits of template, -1 on all skill checks, attack rolls and saving throws, -5 hp, treated as 1 levels lowers for effects (as 12th level). 14th: all benefits of 10 class levels, all benefits of template You could also do a progression of actual abilities as described in SS.
ressurrector 03-04-06, 02:00 AM	I had a character who was granted about 3LA worth of templates during the campaign (chimeric werecreature and demonblooded, long story) Here's what the DM did: he said that my character needed some time to get aquainted with the abilities of the new template, learn to shift and so-forth. Then he gave everyone else 3 levels from training while my character was mastering her new abilities. You could do this in a modified way with the -1everything/lvl dif that Pres_Man suggested, just say that instead of gaining character experience you are gaining experience being a litch. Eventually you'll stop being so bad at it.
StormCrow42 03-05-06, 06:04 PM	You could also look at the "savage progressions" for the various templates that may be available. For instance, the Lich savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a) allows you to gain your lich powers over 4 levels (during which you'll gain no HD, skills, or feats). The Vampire savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) article (which also discusses the overall problem of gaining templates mid-game) might also be of some use to you,