Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kalico 07-03-05, 06:41 AM	I am new to D&D so some advice for character creation would be appreciated. I am making is a human wizard (Str 10, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 15). I am after any tips on school specialisation (3E or 3.5E rules both acceptable), choice of skills, feats, and spells. I am looking to be quite powerful offensively, but require some subtleties as well. She is evil, and so may need to include skills such as bluff to survive in a good-aligned party (yes I am aware of the difficulties with trying to pull off this sort of character, but I am planning to be very careful how I play it and the DM is being very helpful).
20102000 07-03-05, 09:56 AM	The way i'd go with a bluff/deceptive evil wizard is an illusionist. However illusions can be difficult for inexperinced players, plus some DMs find them difficult to handle. Not to mention the rest of the party. So a compromise choice would be enchantment. The two prohibited schools would be illusion and conjuration. If your not much of a team player you could lose transmutation . Necromancy is also an option to lose. Your probably thinking i'm an evil wizard, i have to have necromancy. However the spells tend to need some specialization . So you either focus on the necromancy school or forget about it. If you wanted to focus on Necromancy. You either need to boost your touch attacks , and or boost your spells DCs. Choice of prohibited schools for a necro, wound be conjuration and enchantment. Hope that helps.
BeyondFated 07-03-05, 11:03 AM	If your going for a pwoerful offensive caster, perhaps becoming an evoker would be good. Evocation is your main blasting school, so you'll have most of the 'Baddie go boom!' spells covered. I would probably give up Illusion and Divination, two schools that aren't that helpful to 'blaster casters'. Just remember, spells like Mage Armor benefit you and that party, and the party are gonna be your worse enemy if they don't trust you. So don't forget to memorize a few buffs along with your spells-o-doom.
fallabel 07-03-05, 11:03 AM	Playing an Evil character in a Good party is a terrible idea for a new player.
20102000 07-03-05, 11:10 AM	If your going for a pwoerful offensive caster, perhaps becoming an evoker would be good. Evocation is your main blasting school, so you'll have most of the 'Baddie go boom!' spells covered. I would probably give up Illusion and Divination, two schools that aren't that helpful to 'blaster casters'. You can't give up divination for enchantment, necromancy,evocation or transmutation. Has to be two others.
Talinna 07-03-05, 12:05 PM	Also to give the character purpose for traveling (insted of hidding in a school as a mage) you could try the old line of being a book/scribe/scroll merchent this would also open up the door for the DM to throw a few niffty things your way (and the party not to get to puzzled by your actions or possitions) seeing as merchents have to deal with all sorts and book merchents like old rare things ;)
Julia of Hillsdown 07-03-05, 02:19 PM	You can't give up divination for enchantment, necromancy,evocation or transmutation. Has to be two others.To be more accurate, you can't use Divination as your prohibited school, regardless of the school you're specialising in. And what BeyondFated said: Abjuration is good. :D It gives things like Mage Armour, and further down the line Undetectable Alignment. Very handy in a good party ;) If you want to be powerful offensively, I would advise not to make Evocation one of your prohibited schools. How else to cast Lightning Bolt, or the old standby, Fireball? :mage:
danielinthewolvesden 07-03-05, 02:45 PM	Playing an Evil character in a Good party is a terrible idea for a new player. Absolutely right. Such a thing should only be attempted by a very experienced player- in a group of very mature players- with a experienced AND mature DM. :teach: We clearly fail on point 1. Since it appears that the DM is in cahoots with you, I think we also fail on point 3. :noway: You run a strong risk of being labeled as a disruptive player on your first time out, and not being invited back. Some folks will carry a grudge or more likely - think that you are just a rather 'evil" person. First PC should try and fit in with any party as much as possible. Remember- these people will also be your friends and by doing this you are making a terrible first impression.
Lord Schpungus 07-04-05, 01:55 AM	First PCs should not be wizards. Or any magic-user, really. There's already too much to keep track of without magic. Add in fully half of the PHB to read through seven or eight times in addition to the three you read it cover to cover, it's just too much fo start with. I suggest fighter as a first class.
Gedrin 07-04-05, 02:46 AM	Just to emphasize the point. Don't play evil your first time out. Don't play evil in an all good party. Don't play a character that is aimed at deceiving your party. Re-read the three above lines. Casters are more complex than the other characters, so I don’t recommend it. However, that pales in comparison to; Don't play evil your first time out. Don't play evil in an all good party. Don't play a character that is aimed at deceiving your party.
Tsipaf 07-04-05, 03:53 AM	Are u sure that u can play this character?Cause u r a new player it may be diffucult to handle it and u may be dissapointed from D&D if u fail to roleplay it Anyway it must be a very interest character. Get a viper for familliar, and pick the Evocation or Conjuratoin school
Encard 07-04-05, 03:43 PM	Be careful about playing an evil character in a good party - I've done it, but it can get tricky. Now, wizard tips: The Incanatrix PrC is generally held as being quite powerful. If you can get/use the Dragonlance - Age of Mortals book, the War Mage there is a stupidly broken PrC - among other hefty bonuses, over 5 levels it adds 3 damage to each die of spell damage. Of course, it's highly unlikely your DM would let you use this in the event that you do have access to it. Extraordinary Spell Aim (from Complete Adventurer) an be a very useful feat - excluding someone from the area of effect of a spell can range from being a useful way to get at enemies (fireballing a group of monsters that the party's meleer is fighting) to being absurdly useful (excluding yourself from the affect of an Antimagic Field spell). Insightful Reflexes (either Complete Adventurer or Complete Arcane, I'm not certain) is also quite nice for wizards, as it lets you use your Int mod for ref saves instead of your Dex mod. Energy Substitution (from Complete Arcane or Tome & Blood) can be a nice feat - however, I recommend getting a metamagic rod of it instead. Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Staff are feats you should probably pick up at some point - Craft Wondrous Item lets you make a huge assortment of very useful items, and Craft Staff is like a much better version of Craft Wand - any spell level, and you can put spells in at the minimum caster level but cast them at your real spell level. Most of the metamagic feats from the PHB are also pretty useful - Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Maximize Spell and Quicken Spell are perhaps highlights, but the others are also useful. Scorching Ray and the Orb spells from Complete Arcane are quite good. Combinations of Solid Fog with various area effect spells (Fireball, for example) are rather useful as well, since enemies can't get to you with their 5 ft. movement speed in the fog. Dimension Door is great for quick escapes. Magic Missile and Mage Armor are pretty much staples at lower level, and Mirror Image is also quite nice. First PCs should not be wizards. Or any magic-user, really. There's already too much to keep track of without magic. Add in fully half of the PHB to read through seven or eight times in addition to the three you read it cover to cover, it's just too much fo start with. I suggest fighter as a first class. First thing I ever played was a wizard, and I did fine. Unless you start at high level, it's really not that hard.
ehrin 07-04-05, 05:24 PM	if you want to specialize, specialize in Divination. You only give up one school to get the extra spell, and you can always use a true strike, detect thoughts, etc.. Basically, for throwing away one school (illusion, enchantment, necromancy, etc), you get a free spell every level that you could use. Any of the other schools cost too much (two schools thrown out, for one spell/level).
Rathje 07-04-05, 08:26 PM	I, too, would suggest Divination. I also strongly suggest you chuck out Necromancy. If you don't want to go for Divination, I still suggest Necromancy is one of your prohibited schools. A wizard for your first character can work, as long as you're careful and your DM knows what he's doing. That 16 Constitution will help. Take a Crossbow and maybe Rapid Shot. Remember to be careful around things that are pointy. And most importantly: I suggest you don't play an evil character.
20goingon1232 07-04-05, 08:43 PM	I'd prefer to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot instead of Rapid Reload, which, IIRC, needs a +2 BAB. Those two help with all spells with a ranged touch attack. Why Necromancy? Wouldn't Enchantment be a better school to drop?
Maerdash 07-04-05, 10:18 PM	You can't drop divination unless your playing 3.0. That said, never drop abjuration the dispel magic alone makes losing abjuration a bad idea. for a blaster character you can afford to drop illusion, but that also get rid of some of your most powerful personal defenses (mirror image, blur, displacement, etc.), necromancy can be a good choice to drop. Personally i would drop enchantment (many of the effects can be emulated to a lesser degree by other schools), and necromancy (its a powerful school but limited in the number and versatility of spells. Keep an eye on conjuration, spells like solid fog can hold many enemies virtually immobile while you drop area attack spells down their throats, also the school has the largest selection of spells that don't allow SR. If you want some great ideas about spell use try looking in character optimization library there is a link in it that leads to a useful thread about original spell use. It gives tips like using solid fog to keep enemies in a limited area and then following up with another spell like cloudkill or acid fog in order to stop your enemies without having to risk your neck.
Rathje 07-05-05, 02:49 AM	I'd prefer to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot instead of Rapid Reload, which, IIRC, needs a +2 BAB. Those two help with all spells with a ranged touch attack. Why Necromancy? Wouldn't Enchantment be a better school to drop? RAPID RELOAD [GENERAL] Choose a type of crossbow (hand, light, or heavy). Prerequisite: Weapon Proficiency (crossbow type chosen). Benefit: The time required for you to reload your chosen type of crossbow is reduced to a free action (for a hand or light crossbow) or a move action (for a heavy crossbow). Reloading a crossbow still provokes an attack of opportunity. If you have selected this feat for hand crossbow or light crossbow, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow. I think a Wizard should try to avoid melee encounters at all costs. For level one, those feats are precious and could be put to better use. If the DM is a little inexperienced, Toughness might be a good idea for said Wizard. I'm not saying that taking Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot is a bad idea, I'm just saying how I like my Wizards. As for Necromancy vs. Enchantment, I love Geas too much :D. How about specializing in something other than Divination and taking Necromancy and Enchantment as prohibited schools?
20goingon1232 07-05-05, 04:22 AM	LoL. Geas.... I institute a "you don't use it, I won't either" rule on the darned things (as well as on a few crazier spells). My players tend respect that because they know I have MDJ up my sleeve :D I love Horrid Wilting too much to give up Necromancy :D 1d8/level area effect damage which goes through all DR and resistances is just too much fun to let go of, particularly if you go Archmage and get shape spells. Divination is a good school to take. You will need to get Divination spells and most of them are pretty good anyway, so why not? It will save you a spell slot that you can use for other spells, basically giving you the same number of spells as any other specialist.
Aram al'Castor 07-05-05, 04:36 AM	With you being new too D&D I would highly suggest not playing the lone bad guy in a party of "foolish do-gooders" especially if said party has a paladin who can use detect evil and any decent paladin probably will, at which point they, being do-gooders, will kill you. If your DM wont let you change your characters allignment start thinking of having your character have a change of heart and move towards neutral. Ok now on to what you actually asked. In all honesty, since your a 1st time player and a 1st time wizard I would actually recomend no specialization. Since you really have no idea yet what are great spells to have and which one are not for your campaign in might be best not to limit yourself at all for just 1 extra spell per level. If you want the extra spell and your set on being evil I'd say just steal some scrolls (perhaps from another wizard in your onw party...then blame it on the rouge...thats what i do). As for feats (assuming your starting at level 1) I'd go Improved Initiative and Spell Focus. Spells? Well youll already get all the cantrips you can find in print and 1st level spells (based on your Int you'll get 6) Id say go Magic Missile and Burning Hands (For that Offensive capability you wanted), Mage Armor (to keep you alive), Protection from good (when your "friends" find out the truth and decide to kill you), Charm Person (to use against those "friends" of yours), and Expeditious retreat ( so you can run away and not die).
Vaelan 07-05-05, 05:53 AM	I wouldn't bother specializing. The main benefit of being a Wizard is versatility, and specialization hurts your versatility.
danielinthewolvesden 07-05-05, 02:37 PM	Friends- has anyone noted that our OP hasn't come back with any comments? Are we sure he/she is for real? :confused:
Fiery_Overlord 07-05-05, 03:19 PM	Point black shot is most useful for wizards who like rays, along with weapon focus-Ray. This means your ray attacks will hit more, and point black shot is a prerequisite for Precise Shot, hand when the melee fighters of the group are toe to toe with what you want to shoot. If you don't like rays don't get point blank shot For specialization Divination is wonderful for low mid and high characters alike. Extra Detect Magic, True Strike and Detect thoughts are just nifty at low levels, and knowing things are also handy. Also since you only have to give up one school it is a bargain. Note about true strike, it gives you a +20 insight bonus to hit meaning at mid range for a bow(-10), and non-proficient(-4) you are still equal to +8 on the attack at first level, and you can shoot that well blind-folded. The reason people suggest dropping necromancy is because it has a small spell list and unless you specifically need to make/control undead it really isn't that handy. Everything people have been saying about playing an evil character first time out especially in a good party and a character who deceives the party is true. I hope this doesn't leave a sour taste in your mouth but know what you are attempting is fairly difficult to do well even for veterans
Dragonsblood 07-05-05, 03:41 PM	Switch your Int and Cha and become a chaotic good Sorcerer instead. Feats to consider are Improved Initiative, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Point Blank Shot, Presice Shot, Weapon Focus: Ray. Later on pick up some Meta-magic and maybe Item Creation (though item creation is more limited for a sorcerer). If you want to become an Archmage (PrC) take a look at the required feats. For spells, if you want to be a heavy damage dealer, sorcerer is definately the way to go given the number of spell slots you get. Make sure you don't overlook spells that cause ability damage like Ray of Enfeeblement, or level drain like Enervation, or indirect damage like Color Spray or Evard's Black Tenticles. Try to pick spells that serve unique purposes - there's no need to pick up every damage dealing spell when one or two get the job done. It's better to save some spell selections for utility spells also. I generally like to pick up one offensive spell, one defencive spell, one crowd control spell, and one or two utility spells per spell level.
Dragonsblood 07-05-05, 03:44 PM	Friends- has anyone noted that our OP hasn't come back with any comments? Are we sure he/she is for real? Maybe, but perhaps a more shy poster is asking the same question in their head, and instead of posting is reading this post.
rbrt_Spade 07-05-05, 03:52 PM	Evocation-good fireballs are your friend buy tome & blood- i own it-it gives you tips, help, spells,new prcs,feats on wiz/ sor- it costs about $20 brand new and is in paperback
20goingon1232 07-05-05, 05:17 PM	Switch your Int and Cha and become a chaotic good Sorcerer instead. Feats to consider are Improved Initiative, Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Point Blank Shot, Presice Shot, Weapon Focus: Ray. Later on pick up some Meta-magic and maybe Item Creation (though item creation is more limited for a sorcerer). If you want to become an Archmage (PrC) take a look at the required feats. For spells, if you want to be a heavy damage dealer, sorcerer is definately the way to go given the number of spell slots you get. Make sure you don't overlook spells that cause ability damage like Ray of Enfeeblement, or level drain like Enervation, or indirect damage like Color Spray or Evard's Black Tenticles. Try to pick spells that serve unique purposes - there's no need to pick up every damage dealing spell when one or two get the job done. It's better to save some spell selections for utility spells also. I generally like to pick up one offensive spell, one defencive spell, one crowd control spell, and one or two utility spells per spell level. Yeah. I love the Sorceror. Too bad it is not good for a Mystic Theurge build :(
kalico 07-05-05, 07:24 PM	Yes, I am real I have just been away from internet for a couple of days. Thank you to everyone for all the advice, lots of options there that I can use. And I do take your point about the evil thing. I know you are all completely right (much as it pains me to admit it). I think I should be okay playing a wizard, I have done a lot of reading up, and yes we are starting at level 1. School specialisation is still an issue - as everyone seems to have their own opinion on this I will need to work out exactly how I want to play, but I am starting to get a much better idea of the options. Thanks again.
Rathje 07-06-05, 01:44 AM	School specialisation is still an issue - as everyone seems to have their own opinion on this I will need to work out exactly how I want to play, but I am starting to get a much better idea of the options. If you're unsure of what to specialize in, there's always the option of not specializing at all. You'll lose the extra spell of each level, but you'll get to use everything. Then you can spend lots of cash on filling up your spellbook with every spell in existence or (if your DM allows it) spend some time researching some new spells. As for the Geas thing mentioned above for "the DM uses it if the player does," I wouldn't abuse it, I just like the spell and think it could come in handy every now and then. Plus, it gives the DM easy plot ideas if he wants to use it, too. I'm not opposed to my DM using Geas on my characters; I still get to make my own decisions and everything (unlike completely dominating me). Geas, it's fun for the whole family.
AramilWindwalker 07-06-05, 08:24 AM	I think if you want to know lots of spells the feat collegiate wizard(someone help with a book please) could help as well. it allows you to get 6 spells at 1st level known + the extras for high int, and you get 4 spells a level to add at each other level, or be an elf, and take that first racial substitution in races of the wild. hope it helps
Julia of Hillsdown 07-06-05, 10:48 AM	I think if you want to know lots of spells the feat collegiate wizard(someone help with a book please) Complete Arcane :)
Merestil Haye 07-06-05, 12:28 PM	Complete Arcane :)Julia is right. It is not in the main body of feats though; it's tucked in a sidebar on page 181. What Collegiate Wizard essentially does is double the number of spells you get at each level (except for the 1st level bonus equal to your Int bonus). Over the course of a campaign this will have many advantages. You will have a wider selection of spells to prepare from. Thus having an improved chance of having the necessary spell. You will save treasure compared to the wizard who does not have this feat. Normally wizards would have to find a reference work that enables them to scribe the spell, paying money for the reference (be it a scroll or access to another's spellbook). Yes, you need to do that too, but you start with more spells, and thus will need to spend less treasure on spells. To take an example, a normal wizard gets 4 spells when levelling at 5th and 6th levels, and usually takes these as 3rd level spells. A collegiate wizard would get 8. So to catch up, the normal wizard has to spend money either obtaining scrolls of spells (375gp each) or persuading a friendly wizard to rent you access to his spellbook (150gp is the guideline but the DM could easily justify a higher cost if he felt like it - I would), then scribe the spell (24 hours plus 300 gp per spell). That's 4 days and a bare minimum of 1,800gp saved, which can be spent on something else. Thirdly, it takes time to scribe spells into your spellbook, 1 day per spell in 3.5 (1 day per spell level in 3.0 iirc) and that time saving is also an advantage in certain campaign styles. I would add to the chorus urging you not to play an evil character first time out. For class choices, by all means play a wizard. It's far more forgiving than some. Sorcerer, for example. You get so few spell choices that every one is important. Wizards can always learn more spells. One topic no-one has touched on is skills. You get 24 points at 1st level and 6 points per level thereafter. I would, at least for a first character, keep the Concentration and Spellcraft skills at max ranks. The other points can be spread out among Knowledge skills and perhaps a language or two. Speaking of languages, you have three for free so pick them carefully. If you think it likely that you will get threatened in melee often, consider taking either Combat Casting or possibly Skill Focus (Concentration). The latter providees a smaller bonus, but provides it all the time. (Dont take Skill Focus if you're using 3.0 rules). [Aside : Yes I know Skill Focus is not a strong feat generally. This is one of two times I would recommend it at all. The other is on UMD when playing an Artificer, or perhaps a Warlock if you intend to itemcraft]. Other feat thoughts? Extend Spell. Most useful when casting Mage Armour from about 4th, or Rope Trick for a safe resting haven from 5th to about 7th level. Craft Wondrous Items for those hard-to-get ability enhancers. Precise Shot and Point-blank shot if you are going to be firing into melee a lot. Spell Penetration to aid attempts get through Spell Resistance should be a must. Spell Mastery may be worthwile, but ensure you get a high rate of return - at least 6 spells - or it really is not worth it. There are several options in the Complete * books, if your DM allows them.
kalico 07-08-05, 02:36 AM	That does sound interesting, thanks.