Advice on DM's Condition [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice on DM's Condition [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Deepwood_Sniper
02-15-05, 05:20 PM Hello everybody,

I'm here today to ask some advice on what to do. See we have a DM that has just been introduced to mini-maxing (a couple months ago), and it seems to be rubbing off on him. I say this because it seems that every incounter that he throughs at us is power gamed to the max and seems to be ready and waiting for us with all the spells needed to make it power gamed. I know your think that im just being parinode(sp?), but they know everyone one of our weaknesses almost like they have been studding us for years. Which they have not been doing. It is getting to the point were he is setting up mindless undead for complex flanking manuvers. Although this sounds like a bash to the DM(which it isn't), I just need some advice on what to do in this situation.

P.S. Please dont say to get rid of him because he is a close friend which I dont want to loose.
psychognome42
02-15-05, 05:38 PM unless you want to try to talk to him out-of-game, all i would do is get together with your other PC's, talk about, and prepare. If the DM expects the barbarian always to charge in raging at the beginning of battle, hold him back a little. if he knows your usual routine, try an alternative to take advantage of HIS plan.
Salla
02-15-05, 05:42 PM Well ... despite what some people think, DMs can metagame as badly as players. The NPCs should be limited to whatever information they can actually access, just like the PCs.

That said, there *may* be a reason for it; run any anti-scrying magics you can get your hands on, see if you find anything. You actually MIGHT be being spied on, the skeletons might actually be being covertly controlled, etc.

That said ... you may want to try subtlely 'hinting' at these behind-the-scenes possibilities to see if he catches the hint that he's metagaming.

"They were ready for us ... everybody keep an eye out, we're being watched!"
"These skeletons are WAY too coordinated for mindless minions ... there must be someone around controlling them!"

I've actually caught a few DMs off-guard with an 'observation' like that, which made them think about what they were doing. Sometimes they corrected it, sometimes they congratulated me on my 'astute observations'. ;)
Thoronmir
02-15-05, 05:46 PM Your DM is a close friend who, until recently, ran a balanced game? I don’t mean to sound harsh, but you should talk to him about this before seeking advice from a bunch of strangers who know nothing about you, your friend, or your game. Ask him how he’d feel if the PCs started using out-of-character knowledge to overcome their foes (it’s called “metagaming”). Because that’s exactly what his NPCs are doing.

That said, a DM ought to take into account a party’s abilities, tactics, etc., when creating encounters. Otherwise, he risks skewing the XP awards … awarding base XP for challenges that might turn out to have been too easy or too hard. How boring would the game become if the party plowed through every obstacle because the DM keeps popping up paper targets?

There is a balance to be achieved here. The DM should remain cognizant of the party’s abilities without devising every encounter as a custom-tailored death trap for the PCs. As you correctly pointed out, such specialization requires in-game knowledge of the party’s traits and habits. Unless his NPCs are conducting such reconnaissance, he’s not playing fair. After all, the party might have means to detect their observers. Of course, one advantage to taking your concerns to the DM instead of us is that he knows what’s really going on behind the curtain … maybe you have attracted the attention of a curious BBEG.
Ut-Napishtim
02-16-05, 03:24 AM "They were ready for us ... everybody keep an eye out, we're being watched!"
"These skeletons are WAY too coordinated for mindless minions ... there must be someone around controlling them!"

I've actually caught a few DMs off-guard with an 'observation' like that, which made them think about what they were doing. Sometimes they corrected it, sometimes they congratulated me on my 'astute observations'. ;)

Yeah, I have to agree that's probably the best way to go. Many DM's will take offense if you suggest any sort of unfairness on their part, but if you get the whole party off on a tangent because his metagaming sent the wrong signal he'll think twice about it in the future.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Deepwood_Sniper 02-15-05, 05:20 PM	Hello everybody, I'm here today to ask some advice on what to do. See we have a DM that has just been introduced to mini-maxing (a couple months ago), and it seems to be rubbing off on him. I say this because it seems that every incounter that he throughs at us is power gamed to the max and seems to be ready and waiting for us with all the spells needed to make it power gamed. I know your think that im just being parinode(sp?), but they know everyone one of our weaknesses almost like they have been studding us for years. Which they have not been doing. It is getting to the point were he is setting up mindless undead for complex flanking manuvers. Although this sounds like a bash to the DM(which it isn't), I just need some advice on what to do in this situation. P.S. Please dont say to get rid of him because he is a close friend which I dont want to loose.
psychognome42 02-15-05, 05:38 PM	unless you want to try to talk to him out-of-game, all i would do is get together with your other PC's, talk about, and prepare. If the DM expects the barbarian always to charge in raging at the beginning of battle, hold him back a little. if he knows your usual routine, try an alternative to take advantage of HIS plan.
Salla 02-15-05, 05:42 PM	Well ... despite what some people think, DMs can metagame as badly as players. The NPCs should be limited to whatever information they can actually access, just like the PCs. That said, there may be a reason for it; run any anti-scrying magics you can get your hands on, see if you find anything. You actually MIGHT be being spied on, the skeletons might actually be being covertly controlled, etc. That said ... you may want to try subtlely 'hinting' at these behind-the-scenes possibilities to see if he catches the hint that he's metagaming. "They were ready for us ... everybody keep an eye out, we're being watched!" "These skeletons are WAY too coordinated for mindless minions ... there must be someone around controlling them!" I've actually caught a few DMs off-guard with an 'observation' like that, which made them think about what they were doing. Sometimes they corrected it, sometimes they congratulated me on my 'astute observations'. ;)
Thoronmir 02-15-05, 05:46 PM	Your DM is a close friend who, until recently, ran a balanced game? I don’t mean to sound harsh, but you should talk to him about this before seeking advice from a bunch of strangers who know nothing about you, your friend, or your game. Ask him how he’d feel if the PCs started using out-of-character knowledge to overcome their foes (it’s called “metagaming”). Because that’s exactly what his NPCs are doing. That said, a DM ought to take into account a party’s abilities, tactics, etc., when creating encounters. Otherwise, he risks skewing the XP awards … awarding base XP for challenges that might turn out to have been too easy or too hard. How boring would the game become if the party plowed through every obstacle because the DM keeps popping up paper targets? There is a balance to be achieved here. The DM should remain cognizant of the party’s abilities without devising every encounter as a custom-tailored death trap for the PCs. As you correctly pointed out, such specialization requires in-game knowledge of the party’s traits and habits. Unless his NPCs are conducting such reconnaissance, he’s not playing fair. After all, the party might have means to detect their observers. Of course, one advantage to taking your concerns to the DM instead of us is that he knows what’s really going on behind the curtain … maybe you have attracted the attention of a curious BBEG.
Ut-Napishtim 02-16-05, 03:24 AM	"They were ready for us ... everybody keep an eye out, we're being watched!" "These skeletons are WAY too coordinated for mindless minions ... there must be someone around controlling them!" I've actually caught a few DMs off-guard with an 'observation' like that, which made them think about what they were doing. Sometimes they corrected it, sometimes they congratulated me on my 'astute observations'. ;) Yeah, I have to agree that's probably the best way to go. Many DM's will take offense if you suggest any sort of unfairness on their part, but if you get the whole party off on a tangent because his metagaming sent the wrong signal he'll think twice about it in the future.