Post/Author/DateTime	Post
maxfschr1 05-07-04, 06:35 PM	Thought I would try this on another board...Ok. Since the campaigns I always play end up shutting down somewhere around 9th level or earlier, I have little experience with multi-classing and what not. We are only playing a three-person group, and since one is a rogue (NOT combat focused in the slightest) and the other a sorcerer, I, as the melee fighter, have to figure out the way to best maximize my combat effectiveness. Since, from what I hear, the best way to get a good fighter is to multi-class, how should I handle this: Elf Fighters: Str - 18 Dex - 15 Con - 17 Cha, Int, & Wis - Being handled separately for a purpose. They are, in reality, all 8s and 10s, but they are being adjusted. Too long of a story to explain. Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Longsword) Weapons: Longsword/Shortsword, Shortbow Armor: Hasn't been decided yet, but will be fighter-worthy. I am already committed to taking the intial levels in fight, mostly due to roleplay and story aspects. I am committed to elf, and the focus is combat damage and effectiveness. Trying to avoid magic use if possible, because of the sorcerer, and I am pretty sure that one of the party members is going to multiclass in levels of cleric very soon. I do realize that this is by no means the best way to min/max play it. However, by considering roleplay and story, this is how it ended up. Anyway, what's the best way to make this dual-wielder the most combat-effective. Just PrC? Multi-class? Straight fighter with lots of feat trees? What? Thanks for any help.
maxfschr1 05-08-04, 09:58 AM	so sad :(
Ehlana 05-08-04, 07:23 PM	Well, Character Optimization board would be the place for this, although they're somewhat cranky. If you wanna optimize your melee ability, i'd suggest some sort of dwarf fighter/barbarian combo. or just barbarian.
andyhepburnuk 05-08-04, 09:09 PM	the best fighter i had was a human fighter. plain and simple. I cant remember his stats exactly but it was his feats that made him hard. i concentrated on getting him mobile whilst fighting.(dodge, expertese, mobility, whirlwind attack, improved trip). normally my tactic would be something like.. move, improved trip, free attack (if trip succeeds), move to another evil bad guy, improved trip, free attack, move, standard attack, move (or runaway at this point, hopefully round a corner) the only draw back is the aoo, but with a plus 5 to my ac which was allready high i didnt take too many hits. i also managed to gain "shot on the run" and qucik draw. shame that warehouse blew up with him in it.
Elrana 05-10-04, 09:45 AM	If you want to be a dual weapon fighter then I recommend dropping the long sword, take two short swords instead and put all your feats into (greater) weapon focus/spec. shortsword, also power attack, (great) cleave, improved/greater TWF, improved critical. It is not worth using two different weapons as you will always end up either splitting your feats between them or using a weapon that you aren't focussed or specialised in in one hand for no good reason! Althoug twin longswords give you more base damage you are looking at greater penalties to hit, twin shortswords will mean a lower penalty so a greater chance to hit and effectively greater potential for damage. Don't bother stepping into any other class, just perfect your TWF using short swords, aim to pick up a pair of boots of speed, belt of giant strength, amulet of health, gloves of dex (to meet TWF prereq.s), and obviously good armour. Once you have improved critical look toward burst magic on your swords rather than just the regular energy enhancement. By the time you are twelfth level you should have had effectively a feat per level! With twelve feats, a high strength, a good BAB and potentially (with boots of speed) seven attacks per round with a critical range of 17-20 you will be pretty uber! 1st - focus, TWF 2nd - power attack 3rd - cleave 4th - spec. 6th - imp. TWF, great cleave 8th - greater focus 9th - improved crit. 10th - free slot! 12th - greater TWF, greater spec. The free slot gives all sorts of options! Maybe dodge or a little bit of ranged stuff, PBS maybe, I personally am a great fan of combat reflexes if you have a high dex. Either way by 12th level you will have, assuming 18 str.: 16/16/11/11/6/6 1d6 +8, 17/x2 Those numbers ignore any magical enhancements, haste's additional attack, and assume standard shortswords, not even masterworked ones! This also is not counting the ridiculous number of cleave attacks and possibly attacks of opportunity you could be making during the course of any one round! Pretty damn good really. Why bother multi-classing?! :D
april151978 05-10-04, 10:03 AM	Originally posted by maxfschr1 Elf Fighters: Str - 18 Dex - 15 Con - 17 Cha, Int, & Wis - Being handled separately for a purpose. They are, in reality, all 8s and 10s, but they are being adjusted. Too long of a story to explain. Feats: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (Longsword) Weapons: Longsword/Shortsword, Shortbow Armor: Hasn't been decided yet, but will be fighter-worthy. Just a quick question; how did you get a 17 Con with a 1st level elven fighter?... Standard bonuses are +2 dex, -2 Con...
Nightchill 05-10-04, 10:46 AM	Depending on how often you're expecting to use ranged attacks, you might not find the dex so useful as the best common armour (full plate) has a max dex mode of +1. Ignore this if you're planning to switch to finessable weapons. As a fighter you get a huge amount of feats. Therefore instead of a longsword, why not spend a feat on the Bastard Sword? It'll pay off :)
Gandilas 05-10-04, 10:05 PM	Originally posted by Elrana If you want to be a dual weapon fighter then I recommend dropping the long sword, take two short swords instead and put all your feats into (greater) weapon focus/spec. shortsword, also power attack, (great) cleave, improved/greater TWF, improved critical. It is not worth using two different weapons as you will always end up either splitting your feats between them or using a weapon that you aren't focussed or specialised in in one hand for no good reason! <snip> 1st - focus, TWF 2nd - power attack 3rd - cleave 4th - spec. 6th - imp. TWF, great cleave 8th - greater focus 9th - improved crit. 10th - free slot! 12th - greater TWF, greater spec. Hello. I hope that you know you can't use Power Attack with Light Weapons such as Shortswords. Some DMS might even say you can't Cleave/Great Cleave with such a weapon...
Elrana 05-11-04, 03:22 AM	But you need it for the cleave progression. It is a pain that you don't gain the benefits of it but it is still a step you need to take. (Great) Cleave is worth taking a redundant feat for don't you think? What DMs would disallow cleaving with a light weapon? There are no rules that even hint that that should be the case. How is that a relevant comment (unless you know/are his DM of course! :))?
andyhepburnuk 05-11-04, 12:52 PM	if you gained the monkey grip feat it would allow you to use long swords just as well as those short swords. Or use scimitars instead of longsword and get improved critical. with a nice masterwork + keen scimitar your critical threat range would be 12-20. not to mention any magical properties if your lucky.
Beamup 05-11-04, 01:15 PM	Originally posted by andyhepburnuk if you gained the monkey grip feat it would allow you to use long swords just as well as those short swords. Or use scimitars instead of longsword and get improved critical. with a nice masterwork + keen scimitar your critical threat range would be 12-20. not to mention any magical properties if your lucky. These only apply in 3.0. In 3.5 Monkey Grip doesn't let you do that and Keen does not stack with Improved Critical.