Advice on my monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice on my monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Marchen
10-27-04, 10:18 AM My monk character just hit level 3 last night. I'm looking for insight on feats I should take.

If I take Two-Weapon Fighting, I can attack twice with my quarterstaff as a double weapon. With Flurry of Blows I can gain an additonal attack while doing so, because it is a monk weapon. Doing this would give me three attacks per round, the first two at a -4 and the third at a -2. I have an attack bonus of +5 with the staff (3 str and +2 BAB) so this equals out to +1/+1/+3 each dealing 1d6+4 points of damage.

First off, I will ask if those rules are correct. I reread over the Flurry of Blows and Two-Weapon Fighting rules so I am pretty sure they are sound.

Does it seem worth it to use my 3rd level feat slot for Two-Wep Fighting? I think it would make a decent combat ability, just for the sheer number of attacks I get on a Full Attack (and I'm only level 3). Also, next level my unarmed damage goes to a d8. With that I can still use this combination to deliver two quarterstaff strikes and then a more powerful unarmed attack.

What do you think?
Naeron
10-27-04, 10:47 AM My monk character just hit level 3 last night. I'm looking for insight on feats I should take.

If I take Two-Weapon Fighting, I can attack twice with my quarterstaff as a double weapon. With Flurry of Blows I can gain an additonal attack while doing so, because it is a monk weapon. Doing this would give me three attacks per round, the first two at a -4 and the third at a -2. I have an attack bonus of +5 with the staff (3 str and +2 BAB) so this equals out to +1/+1/+3 each dealing 1d6+4 points of damage.

Yes for the number of attacks but no for the penalties, all your attacks will be at -4. TWF with a double weapon applies a -2 to all attacks in the round (stemming from the phrase "when you fight this way"). Flurry applies a -2 to all attacks in the round.

First off, I will ask if those rules are correct. I reread over the Flurry of Blows and Two-Weapon Fighting rules so I am pretty sure they are sound.

Does it seem worth it to use my 3rd level feat slot for Two-Wep Fighting? I think it would make a decent combat ability, just for the sheer number of attacks I get on a Full Attack (and I'm only level 3). Also, next level my unarmed damage goes to a d8. With that I can still use this combination to deliver two quarterstaff strikes and then a more powerful unarmed attack.

What do you think?

As a Monk your flurry attack can be with a Monk Weapon or an Unarmed Strike and you can mix them so yes you can attack twice with the staff and once with an unarmed strike. In fact you can combine Flurry and TWF with your unarmed strikes alone which would give you three attacks doing 1d8 base damage when you reach next level.

Essentially with TWF and Flurry your monk can get 3 attacks a round and each of those attacks could be with the staff or an unarmed strike.
MetalGemini
10-27-04, 12:16 PM TWF monk doesnt seem to be uncommon. Its definitely the best way to get a whole lot of attacks each round.
CzarGarrett
10-27-04, 12:56 PM At mid to high levels, TWF is great with smaller groups of lower level enemies.

A level 7 monk going buck nutty has enough of a BAB that with flurry and TWF, he'll still be able to take out most goblins (so long as they aren't all classed with Barb3 or the like) because the goblin AC is low enough.

The same monk isn't going to fare nearly as well against armor-wearing Lizardfolk Barb4's due to the penalties to attack rolls.

You have to be careful about using TWF.
Draco Strang
10-27-04, 06:29 PM Be smart, stick with stuff that focuses on you actually hitting and doing damage. Don't worry about TWF, as monks already get nuts attacks once they hit about mid-level. That, and their fists wind up doing greatsword damage, and then 2d8, and it just gets friggin ridiculous. Stick with defense and accuracy enhancing feats, and invest your gold into enchanting your fists (greater magic fang baby...alright) and buying protective items. That means youll wanna do the combat reflexes/combat expertise tree, for whirlwind.

Then, dump your money into the sash that ups your damage to a monk of 5 levels higher. Oh yea.
kliate
10-27-04, 10:22 PM Do you have dodge?

If not - consider it. +1 AC can go a long way, especially with Monks.

If so - look into Mobility. It can save you on the rare event that you fail a tumble check (especially against large and bigger opponents), and is a stepping stone to Spring Attack, which can be truly devestating when used well by a monk.
Marchen
10-27-04, 11:12 PM Well, here's the deal. The game is radically low-magic, low-fantasy follow through. It's all set in a new world, 100 years old. There aren't towns, keeps, villages, or anything like that to stop and buy things like that at. There are clan/family holds, that's where we might buy a handful of rations, animal feed, and maybe a weapon if we're lucky. There are absolutley no magic weapons that we know of, no alchemy. Magic is very restricted, and the only casters allowed are sorcerers, druids, and wizards. Arcane casters are also limited to Divination, Necromancy, and Illusion spells. In addition, there are also no Fighters, Bards, Clerics, Rangers, or Paladins. Only race we can play is Human.

The only armor that exists is up to Leather Armor. That's it. The only weapons that exist are simple and martial.

With those houserules, it's pretty much impossible for me to build up offense/defense with items or magic of any kind. I have to rely on my basics, using skills and feats to be an effective fighter; a role which I am very much obligated to take up since the party consists of a Barbarian, Necromancer, two Rogues, Druid, and myself.

Up until now my feats are: Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist, Dodge, and Deflect Arrows. For my level 3 feat slot I'm debating over Two-Weapon Fighting to gain another attack, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Attack to boost my to-hit rolls which will be nice when I start throwing out D8's for unarmed damage, or now possibly Mobility or Combat Reflexes.

Because I have the highest AC (15, 16 while dodging) of the party and almost as much HP as the barbarian, I am inclined more toward the combat oriented feats like Focus or TWF. I'm still not sure though.
Serene Selene
10-27-04, 11:24 PM If I remember correctly, Two Weapon Fighting cannot be used with a monk's unarmed strikes. It doesn't make a lot of since, after all a monk doesn't just 'punch', he or she uses their entire body (and thus has no "offhand" weapon), whether it's punches, kicks, elbows, etc. Though Two Weapon Fighting with a quarterstaff is perfectly logical, of course.

Improved Grapple is always a solid option for a monk.
Carkni
10-27-04, 11:46 PM Focus, definately Focus.

Focus increases your to hit by 5%, which is important at low levels because a bunch of shoddy rolls can kill you. TWF allows you do neat things, which decreases your ability to hit by 20%, which is HUGE! With focus, you're hitting and dealing damage, with TWF; you get more attacks but at a worst cost.

I'd rather hit with one or two attacks than get three attacks that have penalties, making me hit only once or twice anyway.

BTW... Why are there no fighters? That is in some cases even more simplier than a Barbarian, who has to learn to rage up. Fighters just pick up a sword, a shield and get going...

Oh well.
Marchen
10-27-04, 11:52 PM The DMs reasoning behind no fighters is that combat really isn't an involved art. They only people who need to fight are those who leave clan holdings and go out into the barren world. There really insn't anyone to teach disciplined fighting skills. For that, monks aren't the Eastern flavored martial arts types they are in most campaigns. Monks are feral warriors, they fight with their bodies like beasts. You don't Deflect Arrows, it's more like you ignore them. Flurry of Blows isn't precise maneuvers and attacks, it's flailing your body into the enemy. Stunning Fist is like smacking them hard in the stomach. That's the idea behind it.
Carkni
10-27-04, 11:58 PM I disagree. That's just a Fighter with a few Monk feats, so he's really poopie at it. Being a Monk takes a lot of time and dedication; a new world doesn't have much of that considering you're dead at 30.

Wizards are yes, Clerics are no? Eh, that's also a weird one.

But it must be fun to play.
Marchen
10-28-04, 12:09 AM There ARE clerics, but they aren't really accessible to the party. There is only one god in the world, and he is not very nice. He lords over the humans and keeps them doing exactly what he wants (staying in their clan lands, using the resources he gives them, trading and procreating with other clans when he says so, etc) or else he sends monsters after them. By breaking free of our clan and deciding to be "adventurers" we anger the god, so that's why monsters come for us.

The god does have priests. We can't start as a cleric, but it can be earned over time. Seeing as we call hate the god, it won't happen soon.

The god wounded nature itself with a spear to keep it's power in check, thereby devestating most of magic. Druids can still tap it though, and they are our sole healers.
Sucineri
10-28-04, 04:02 AM I disagree. That's just a Fighter with a few Monk feats, so he's really poopie at it. Being a Monk takes a lot of time and dedication; a new world doesn't have much of that considering you're dead at 30.

That may be true in greyhawk or FR or any other official world..but in a homebrew world you can go ahead and drop the alignment restrictions and the flavor text for your own. I can definately see this kind of wild monk working in his game.

Fighters have tons of feats..and in a new world you don't exactly have people teaching you enough stuff to warrant all these special feats.

Although I would see a ranger working in this setting better than a rogue though. Because rogues are more geared towards city-life (skill set), and Rangers are more towards the wild way of living.

This type of game definately has it's possibilities..but the rogue/ranger thing just doesn't make any kind of sense to me. :P
Son of Khoron
10-28-04, 11:23 PM Sounds like an interesting and very challenging place, lot of restrictions...thats a challenge.
For the monk, since he is the master of the empty hand or flailing claw/fist techniques, go for Vow of Poverty.
This feat is a mixed bag in terms of opinion, but it has good benefits in several things for the price of giving up wealth and material possessions outside of plain clothes and a staff.

Question like this needs to be in the Character Optimization section.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Marchen 10-27-04, 10:18 AM	My monk character just hit level 3 last night. I'm looking for insight on feats I should take. If I take Two-Weapon Fighting, I can attack twice with my quarterstaff as a double weapon. With Flurry of Blows I can gain an additonal attack while doing so, because it is a monk weapon. Doing this would give me three attacks per round, the first two at a -4 and the third at a -2. I have an attack bonus of +5 with the staff (3 str and +2 BAB) so this equals out to +1/+1/+3 each dealing 1d6+4 points of damage. First off, I will ask if those rules are correct. I reread over the Flurry of Blows and Two-Weapon Fighting rules so I am pretty sure they are sound. Does it seem worth it to use my 3rd level feat slot for Two-Wep Fighting? I think it would make a decent combat ability, just for the sheer number of attacks I get on a Full Attack (and I'm only level 3). Also, next level my unarmed damage goes to a d8. With that I can still use this combination to deliver two quarterstaff strikes and then a more powerful unarmed attack. What do you think?
Naeron 10-27-04, 10:47 AM	My monk character just hit level 3 last night. I'm looking for insight on feats I should take. If I take Two-Weapon Fighting, I can attack twice with my quarterstaff as a double weapon. With Flurry of Blows I can gain an additonal attack while doing so, because it is a monk weapon. Doing this would give me three attacks per round, the first two at a -4 and the third at a -2. I have an attack bonus of +5 with the staff (3 str and +2 BAB) so this equals out to +1/+1/+3 each dealing 1d6+4 points of damage. Yes for the number of attacks but no for the penalties, all your attacks will be at -4. TWF with a double weapon applies a -2 to all attacks in the round (stemming from the phrase "when you fight this way"). Flurry applies a -2 to all attacks in the round. First off, I will ask if those rules are correct. I reread over the Flurry of Blows and Two-Weapon Fighting rules so I am pretty sure they are sound. Does it seem worth it to use my 3rd level feat slot for Two-Wep Fighting? I think it would make a decent combat ability, just for the sheer number of attacks I get on a Full Attack (and I'm only level 3). Also, next level my unarmed damage goes to a d8. With that I can still use this combination to deliver two quarterstaff strikes and then a more powerful unarmed attack. What do you think? As a Monk your flurry attack can be with a Monk Weapon or an Unarmed Strike and you can mix them so yes you can attack twice with the staff and once with an unarmed strike. In fact you can combine Flurry and TWF with your unarmed strikes alone which would give you three attacks doing 1d8 base damage when you reach next level. Essentially with TWF and Flurry your monk can get 3 attacks a round and each of those attacks could be with the staff or an unarmed strike.
MetalGemini 10-27-04, 12:16 PM	TWF monk doesnt seem to be uncommon. Its definitely the best way to get a whole lot of attacks each round.
CzarGarrett 10-27-04, 12:56 PM	At mid to high levels, TWF is great with smaller groups of lower level enemies. A level 7 monk going buck nutty has enough of a BAB that with flurry and TWF, he'll still be able to take out most goblins (so long as they aren't all classed with Barb3 or the like) because the goblin AC is low enough. The same monk isn't going to fare nearly as well against armor-wearing Lizardfolk Barb4's due to the penalties to attack rolls. You have to be careful about using TWF.
Draco Strang 10-27-04, 06:29 PM	Be smart, stick with stuff that focuses on you actually hitting and doing damage. Don't worry about TWF, as monks already get nuts attacks once they hit about mid-level. That, and their fists wind up doing greatsword damage, and then 2d8, and it just gets friggin ridiculous. Stick with defense and accuracy enhancing feats, and invest your gold into enchanting your fists (greater magic fang baby...alright) and buying protective items. That means youll wanna do the combat reflexes/combat expertise tree, for whirlwind. Then, dump your money into the sash that ups your damage to a monk of 5 levels higher. Oh yea.
kliate 10-27-04, 10:22 PM	Do you have dodge? If not - consider it. +1 AC can go a long way, especially with Monks. If so - look into Mobility. It can save you on the rare event that you fail a tumble check (especially against large and bigger opponents), and is a stepping stone to Spring Attack, which can be truly devestating when used well by a monk.
Marchen 10-27-04, 11:12 PM	Well, here's the deal. The game is radically low-magic, low-fantasy follow through. It's all set in a new world, 100 years old. There aren't towns, keeps, villages, or anything like that to stop and buy things like that at. There are clan/family holds, that's where we might buy a handful of rations, animal feed, and maybe a weapon if we're lucky. There are absolutley no magic weapons that we know of, no alchemy. Magic is very restricted, and the only casters allowed are sorcerers, druids, and wizards. Arcane casters are also limited to Divination, Necromancy, and Illusion spells. In addition, there are also no Fighters, Bards, Clerics, Rangers, or Paladins. Only race we can play is Human. The only armor that exists is up to Leather Armor. That's it. The only weapons that exist are simple and martial. With those houserules, it's pretty much impossible for me to build up offense/defense with items or magic of any kind. I have to rely on my basics, using skills and feats to be an effective fighter; a role which I am very much obligated to take up since the party consists of a Barbarian, Necromancer, two Rogues, Druid, and myself. Up until now my feats are: Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist, Dodge, and Deflect Arrows. For my level 3 feat slot I'm debating over Two-Weapon Fighting to gain another attack, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Attack to boost my to-hit rolls which will be nice when I start throwing out D8's for unarmed damage, or now possibly Mobility or Combat Reflexes. Because I have the highest AC (15, 16 while dodging) of the party and almost as much HP as the barbarian, I am inclined more toward the combat oriented feats like Focus or TWF. I'm still not sure though.
Serene Selene 10-27-04, 11:24 PM	If I remember correctly, Two Weapon Fighting cannot be used with a monk's unarmed strikes. It doesn't make a lot of since, after all a monk doesn't just 'punch', he or she uses their entire body (and thus has no "offhand" weapon), whether it's punches, kicks, elbows, etc. Though Two Weapon Fighting with a quarterstaff is perfectly logical, of course. Improved Grapple is always a solid option for a monk.
Carkni 10-27-04, 11:46 PM	Focus, definately Focus. Focus increases your to hit by 5%, which is important at low levels because a bunch of shoddy rolls can kill you. TWF allows you do neat things, which decreases your ability to hit by 20%, which is HUGE! With focus, you're hitting and dealing damage, with TWF; you get more attacks but at a worst cost. I'd rather hit with one or two attacks than get three attacks that have penalties, making me hit only once or twice anyway. BTW... Why are there no fighters? That is in some cases even more simplier than a Barbarian, who has to learn to rage up. Fighters just pick up a sword, a shield and get going... Oh well.
Marchen 10-27-04, 11:52 PM	The DMs reasoning behind no fighters is that combat really isn't an involved art. They only people who need to fight are those who leave clan holdings and go out into the barren world. There really insn't anyone to teach disciplined fighting skills. For that, monks aren't the Eastern flavored martial arts types they are in most campaigns. Monks are feral warriors, they fight with their bodies like beasts. You don't Deflect Arrows, it's more like you ignore them. Flurry of Blows isn't precise maneuvers and attacks, it's flailing your body into the enemy. Stunning Fist is like smacking them hard in the stomach. That's the idea behind it.
Carkni 10-27-04, 11:58 PM	I disagree. That's just a Fighter with a few Monk feats, so he's really poopie at it. Being a Monk takes a lot of time and dedication; a new world doesn't have much of that considering you're dead at 30. Wizards are yes, Clerics are no? Eh, that's also a weird one. But it must be fun to play.
Marchen 10-28-04, 12:09 AM	There ARE clerics, but they aren't really accessible to the party. There is only one god in the world, and he is not very nice. He lords over the humans and keeps them doing exactly what he wants (staying in their clan lands, using the resources he gives them, trading and procreating with other clans when he says so, etc) or else he sends monsters after them. By breaking free of our clan and deciding to be "adventurers" we anger the god, so that's why monsters come for us. The god does have priests. We can't start as a cleric, but it can be earned over time. Seeing as we call hate the god, it won't happen soon. The god wounded nature itself with a spear to keep it's power in check, thereby devestating most of magic. Druids can still tap it though, and they are our sole healers.
Sucineri 10-28-04, 04:02 AM	I disagree. That's just a Fighter with a few Monk feats, so he's really poopie at it. Being a Monk takes a lot of time and dedication; a new world doesn't have much of that considering you're dead at 30. That may be true in greyhawk or FR or any other official world..but in a homebrew world you can go ahead and drop the alignment restrictions and the flavor text for your own. I can definately see this kind of wild monk working in his game. Fighters have tons of feats..and in a new world you don't exactly have people teaching you enough stuff to warrant all these special feats. Although I would see a ranger working in this setting better than a rogue though. Because rogues are more geared towards city-life (skill set), and Rangers are more towards the wild way of living. This type of game definately has it's possibilities..but the rogue/ranger thing just doesn't make any kind of sense to me. :P
Son of Khoron 10-28-04, 11:23 PM	Sounds like an interesting and very challenging place, lot of restrictions...thats a challenge. For the monk, since he is the master of the empty hand or flailing claw/fist techniques, go for Vow of Poverty. This feat is a mixed bag in terms of opinion, but it has good benefits in several things for the price of giving up wealth and material possessions outside of plain clothes and a staff. Question like this needs to be in the Character Optimization section.