Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DeadKeepWalking 02-11-06, 10:11 AM	What advice do any of you have for "becoming part of a tight knit group?" Case and Point: No matter what group I have joined over the past 10 years, they were all a bunch of close friends, and nomatter what I did or said, I was never given a chance to become part of the group, or able to break into their "circle." The only one who really ever gave me a chance was the DM, but every character I have created over the past 10 years, has died somewhere in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or if I was lucky 4th session. Reason, because the other players never assisted me in hazardous situations. You try being a 7th level character of any class(es), and try to take down an EL/CR 8 by yourself. I have played with many different groups, with many different DMs, and the result is always the same. I have gotten to the point that when my character dies, I move on and look for another group.
TmonsterD 02-11-06, 12:07 PM	Wait, you leave a gaming group whenever your character dies? T
DeadKeepWalking 02-11-06, 12:11 PM	I only started doing that about 2-3 years ago. No one ever gave me a chance, aside from the DM, to be a part of their "inner circle" of PCs. Let me know what you do after being repeatedly jilted 10+ years in a row.
ZARATHOS1972 02-11-06, 12:19 PM	I can say, any DM that allows that to happen continually must not have wanted another player in his group to begin with. Any good DM would have kept the other players in check and helped meld you into the group. As a DM, I have had new players join on occassion, and have never had a problem to that extreme. You are always going to have certain players that will favor others, but if they are really roleplaying their characters right, you should have an opportunity to earn your place in the group.
DeadKeepWalking 02-11-06, 12:31 PM	I have had played with DMs that have tried to meld me into the group, failed because the other players see me as an outsider because I am not part of their "group" away from the table, and after my death, tried to punish the players by putting them up against an enemy that trumps all their tactics, and yet the players survive, I am still dead, and they get the feeling that I wasn't needed after all. It doesn't if I role-play or not, it is the simple fact that they are all close friends away from the table, and I am not part of their "group." Most of the time, they aren't role-playing their characters. They develop these backgrounds for their characters, rarely actually play their character based on their background, and really only want to kill stuff.
TmonsterD 02-11-06, 12:33 PM	If it was the same group of people that repeatedly rejected me, I'd conclude that they were a bunch of jerks. However, if I were to find myself floating from group to group, getting the same response all the while, I'd have to take an honest look at myself and wonder why I'm so alienating. I guess I have to ask again. Why do you leave a group after a character dies. Why not just write up a new one and stick with the same group for awhile. Or am I misunderstanding this? Is this mainly one group? TD
DeadKeepWalking 02-11-06, 01:12 PM	First off, I seem to have terrible luck, and only one character out of 50 has actually lived through 4 complete sessions, with most dying in the first 2 sessions. Second, I ran into three groups that were just a bunch of jerks who have memorized all the books, have discovered every loophole, and being munchkins. Played with each of them only once, and never went back. Personality wise, I am not intimidating, I don't "chase" people away, and am easy to like/get along with. You can ask my friends and they will agree with me, but my friends don't play role-playing games, so I have to look for others. Because I have to look for people who play, I come across groups that have been playing together for years. They think they have the perfect coheasion and don't want to risk losing that coheasion. The last few groups I have played with, had characters that all gravitated towards a similar design. One group was 4 clerics, with 2 mages, and the DM liked to throw large numbers of semi-strong enemies against them, with the intention of having the mages spells such as fireball have to hurt some of the clerics as well. I decided to create a character to help take some of the pressure off the party. I created a fighter. The player with the cleric who was the designated "tank" was ****** off about this because he thought I was challenging him for being the "tank" and the best combatent. I told him I wasn't challenging him, but trying to help the entire party, but he didn't listen. Because he was also the designated leader, he decided that I was a threat to the party, and subtlely treated me as such. He was overjoyed when my character died, who only died because none of the other players helped my character in anyway. Another group was fighters and rogues, who liked to barrel through everything, and complained when their character's HP got low and they had no way to restore it. I created a cleric, designed more as a healer. Died 2nd session while running around trying to keep the fighters conscious because they bit off more than they could chew. They didn't like the fact that I was trying to keep them alive, although because of my efforts they won the fight with only my death. A third group was a mixed bunch lacking arcane magic, and I just created a character, a mage which is something I hadn't played in awhile; the DM also suggested that I should be a mage due to an upcoming quest that he designed requiring an arcane magic user. The DM tried to meld me into the group, and wanted me to help be a balancing force between two players that wanted to have the most "glory" per battle. A fireball here, a lightning bolt there, and I had killed the most enemies in the few fights that happened, which made the "glory" seekers dislike me, and they decided to not defend me in the battle right before my mage skills were needed. I died, the "glory" seekers were happy, and the quest was a dismal failure. They blamed me for the failure because I died when no one was trying to protect me. Oh, there are plenty more stories similar to those, all ending with my death, and the occasional being blamed for the quest failure because I died when no one would back me up.
Louist 02-11-06, 01:12 PM	Also, try to be the party cleric. Make yourself more than just useful, become necessary. I'd stick around after death. These things just take time... eventualy you should grow on them.
DeadKeepWalking 02-11-06, 01:19 PM	I will reiterate. Another group was fighters and rogues, who liked to barrel through everything, and complained when their character's HP got low and they had no way to restore it. I created a cleric, designed more as a healer. Died 2nd session while running around trying to keep the fighters conscious because they bit off more than they could chew. They didn't like the fact that I was trying to keep them alive, although because of my efforts they won the fight with only my death.
geekling 02-11-06, 01:42 PM	I'm not saying it is your fault. But perhaps you're thanks to your past experiences subconciously expecting it to happen and that that plays a little part in it. Not that anyone can fault you for doing so. You do seem to have had a spectacular run of unluck and finding jerks. Still, my advice. Try and break the cycle. Perhaps it could be a solution to try playing online. OpenRPG (http://www.openrpg.com) is a very good program for this. It's much easier to find a new game (the openrpg forums are good for finding one) where you're all on a level playing field when it comes to old connections to the other players. If no one knows the other players in the game as it starts... Then take it from there.
DeadKeepWalking 02-11-06, 02:36 PM	You can also look at it from a Sociological view as well. People are naturally wary when dealing with someone different. A human's first instinct is to label the person as an outsider, and potential threat to their "group," social norms, and such. As a group, people feel secure, cared for, important. When an outsider comes along, their group is potentially in danger of no longer being secure. If they let in the outsider, other groups see them as weak, and less important. Sometimes individuals of the group will cause a shift in the balance of power to keep the outsider from entering the group. You can see this type of situation amongst middle and high school students. The so called "cool/popular" kids are afraid that they will no longer be cool or popular if they let outsiders into their group, which causes anome (feeling of reject, lonliness, abandonment) amongst the kids who aren't popular or cool. As for my past experiences, there were a few groups that I liked, and liked me, but when your character dies every 2 sessions despite your best efforts to keep your character alive, and you have to make a new one every 2 sessions, they developed the feeling that I wasn't important to the group, and stopped involving me in group long term plans, because my characters never lived long enough to have an impact. Then, a move later, and you don't see that group anymore.
Louist 02-11-06, 08:03 PM	Just play pun-pun. You'll stop dieing, and if they don't like you, you can always have all their characters killed/cease to exist.
DeadKeepWalking 02-11-06, 08:25 PM	Might as well. So, where do I find pun-pun? I don't like those uber-characters, and usually refuse to play with people who have to have the uber-characters because they are a bunch of stuck up, fatherless children, who see themselves as the center of the universe. My only goal is to live long enough to have an impact on the campaign. I just want to be able to say, I did (insert something half-way important); instead of saying, I died before the campaign got underway.
Galroth 02-11-06, 10:38 PM	Pun-pun can be found over on the Character Optimization boards, under the thread "The Most Powerfull Character, Ever". It should be easy to find, however, as much as it is suggested to break games, it isn't easy to pull off because it requires your DM to not stop you by invoking Rule Zero. Have fun trying it though.
DeadKeepWalking 02-11-06, 10:58 PM	Now, I just need to figure out how to make a 2nd ED equivilent of pun-pun. But this really isn't the point of the thread. Do any of you have advice for being able to become part of a close knit group that is afraid you are going to destroy group synergy if they make you officially part of the group? And, yes, I have tried making characters that flow perfectly with what the group is trying to do, but to no avail.
TmonsterD 02-12-06, 12:01 PM	You seem to have a knack for finding really tight cliques. You should start a new group of people who have never played with each other before. Then you will be on equal footing. TD