Post/Author/DateTime	Post
imparooo 09-30-04, 08:21 AM	This has just happened to me in RL, but I ask you to trasponse it in D&D terms: which alignment would such a character be? A character is out to get some food for his lunch. He has something like 40 silver pieces in his pouch, and he's going to get a very big piece of cake (it was actually an ice cream, but it doesn't matter). He's choosing which cake to get, and suddenly he finds that a little girl (probably from Eastern Europe) is pulling his sleeve, asking with gestures to buy him an ice cream. He doesn't know what to do, but then the barmaiden asks the girl to leave. Our character gets his piece of cake and some change, goes out of the shop and hands the change to the mother of the girl, who is outside, begging for some money. And asks her politely to call her daughter out of the shop. What alignment is this character?
Sucineri 09-30-04, 08:24 AM	That could be pretty much any alignment other than maybe NE/CE. Even Lawful Evil could have morals and feel sorry for the little girl. Most likely it would be anything between LG and CN
Kittencaboodle 09-30-04, 08:48 AM	Lawful good. Chaotic Good would have bought the girl the ice cream and sent her on her way. He's still upholding the "law" set forth by the barmaiden and asking the mother to remove her daughter after giving the mother some money.
MortalPlague 09-30-04, 08:52 AM	I'd say Lawful Good or Neutral would be interchangeable here, both would act very similarly in my estimation...
Arrowhen 09-30-04, 10:39 AM	Good/Evil Good characters "protect innocent life," Evil characters "debase or destroy innocent life." Buying a kid an ice cream is hardly a life or death decision. If the kid was starving then giving her food would be a Good act, but in this case it was merely a nice act. There's no alignment restrictions on being nice. Law/Chaor Lawful characters "tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties." Chaotic characters "follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it." One could argue that both buying the kid ice cream and giving the change to the mother stemmed from the character following his or her conscience and was therefore a Chaotic act. Yet one could also argue that asking the mother to remove the girl from the shop was a Lawful act, as it demonstrated respect for the shopkeeper's authority. So, the action is both Lawful and Chaotic and neither Good nor Evil. If you believe that every action has to have an alignment then this one would be Neutral, but personally I'd say it's just a non-aligned act of kindness.
anders 09-30-04, 10:59 AM	definitly a good act to give away money.
Revelation 09-30-04, 11:41 AM	Without going too deeply into it, sure any alignment MIGHT do this, but... Charity...good Upholding a reasonable request of the storekeeper...slightly lawful It would IMHO tend to be a LG act
Arrowhen 09-30-04, 11:50 AM	Good and evil, in D&D terms, really only apply to large scale, life or death issues. A simple act of kindness, while nice, isn't necessarily a good act. A blackguard could buy a little girl ice cream every day for a year and not have to worry about an alignment shift as long as he was being evil where it counts.
Thorak 09-30-04, 12:31 PM	Being good, or evil for that matter, has no relevance to whether or not you're nice. If the kid looks well fed and is being a pest, it would be perfectly LG to snarl at her and tell her (not intending to follow through) that you'll "rip that finger off and feed it to her if she pokes you one more time for food." And it would be perfectly CE to pay for the food, and speak gently to her, and then proceed from there to whatever nefarious purpose you have in mind. Kidnapping her now that you've gained her trust. Walking her out among her starving friends just so you can bask in the expressions of envy and hate on their little faces. Etc.
imparooo 09-30-04, 12:55 PM	Being good, or evil for that matter, has no relevance to whether or not you're nice. If the kid looks well fed and is being a pest, it would be perfectly LG to snarl at her and tell her (not intending to follow through) that you'll "rip that finger off and feed it to her if she pokes you one more time for food." Oh my gosh! And it would be perfectly CE to pay for the food, and speak gently to her, and then proceed from there to whatever nefarious purpose you have in mind. Kidnapping her now that you've gained her trust. Walking her out among her starving friends just so you can bask in the expressions of envy and hate on their little faces. Etc. Hat down for the imagination, but here we are clearly exaggerating! The character did this just because they looked like poor foreigners(immigrants), and actually he didn't pay any heed to the fact that he was dressed in a snazzy business attire.
Arrowhen 09-30-04, 02:01 PM	Being good, or evil for that matter, has no relevance to whether or not you're nice. If the kid looks well fed and is being a pest, it would be perfectly LG to snarl at her and tell her (not intending to follow through) that you'll "rip that finger off and feed it to her if she pokes you one more time for food." And it would be perfectly CE to pay for the food, and speak gently to her, and then proceed from there to whatever nefarious purpose you have in mind. Kidnapping her now that you've gained her trust. Walking her out among her starving friends just so you can bask in the expressions of envy and hate on their little faces. Etc. Remember, however, that D&D alignments stem from actions, not from motives. In the first situation the act of snarling at the kid is not incompatible with a Lawful Good alignment, but it is not, in itself, a Lawful Good act. In the second situation kidnapping the kid or using her to foment envy and hate among her peers are both evil acts, but feeding her is not. Even though you're doing it with evil intentions.
Dr. Funkenstein 09-30-04, 06:03 PM	In the second situation kidnapping the kid or using her to foment envy and hate among her peers are both evil acts, but feeding her is not. Even though you're doing it with evil intentions. If the food is poisonous or rotten or you feed her with the intention to harm, would it not be evil? Chaotic Neutral because our hero has a sudden impulse to kill the owner of the store and allow the girl to have all she wants. Then he feels like taking a nap, so he does. He's a lot like Sam I Am, with a dull sword.
Arrowhen 09-30-04, 06:30 PM	If the food is poisonous or rotten or you feed her with the intention to harm, would it not be evil? If the food is going to directly harm her then yes, feeding it to her is an evil act. If, however, you give her a piece of harmless food in order to gain her trust and facilitate your commission of a different evil act which does not involve food then the discrete act of giving her the food is not, in itself, evil.
Dr. Funkenstein 09-30-04, 07:43 PM	Hm, its probably debatable but what you say makes sense. I was thinking along the lines of just feeding her and feeding her so she gets huge. But anyway, this was an interesting topic even if it didn't sparka huge conversation.
Thorak 09-30-04, 09:54 PM	Chaotic Neutral because our hero has a sudden impulse to kill the owner of the store and allow the girl to have all she wants. Then he feels like taking a nap, so he does. He's a lot like Sam I Am, with a dull sword. Congratulations. You've just described the Chaotic Insane alignment. Chaotic Neutral doesn't mean you're a spastic idiot with no control. It means you're impulsive, and it means you could could swing either way, morally. It doesn't mean you'll flip out and kill people just because you can. That's insane and/or evil.
Master Agnald 10-01-04, 08:48 AM	Oh, well.. this is just me, but maybe... neutral good? he did what he could to help the little girl, but wouldn't risk his life to buy her an ice cream.