alignment help, please [Archive] - Wizards Community

alignment help, please [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
damsel in distress
03-08-05, 01:58 PM English is not my primary language, please disregard poor spelling / phrasing !

I´m starting a 1st level character in a new campaign as a cleric of Oli-Damara and I´m discussing his alignment with my DM:

He (the PC, not my DM :D )was one of many children in a poor familiy. His father was very poor and a petty criminal and often used his children as watch-outs or even as the thiefs in his many schemes.
My character (dex 12, cha 17) was often used as watch and more than once talked his way out of troubble when surprised by guards etc.
Once a break-in went wrong and his father was surprised and killed the owner of the store when he escaped. He was caught and imprisoned for many years.
His mother had always tried to teach the boys not to do "wrong" stuff and be nice to other people.

My character had to start making money of his own and started as a conartist.
He remembered his poor upbringing (and his mother who disapproved of his fathers ill-doings) and never steals from people with few money. He will try to avoid hurting / killing people at almost any cost, but when cornered he will attack if this is the only way out. He will then try not to kill, but only wound his opponents.
If he meets people in trouble he wil help them - if they are poor he will do it at no cost, if the person in trouble is rich he will charge him as much as he think he can get away with.

Is his alignment CE (he steals etc), CN (he looks after himself primarily) or CG(he helps other people, he would never steal from friends or family etc) :confused:
I have decided to change him if you and my DM think he is CE ;)
Damneon
03-08-05, 02:18 PM You said he tries to avoid killing. If he were cornered by the guards and there is no way to escape, would he:

Kill the guards to avoid capture? (CN)
Surrender to avoid killing them? (CG)

Ask your DM to come up with other situations like this. I think that his thievery is purely chaotic and has nothing to do with good and evil. Your DM may disagree. If he says that stealing is evil then you are stuck with that decision.
Anthus_Longblade
03-08-05, 03:23 PM If I were the DM in this case, I would label the character Chaotic Good - Having respect for the welfare of others, but by his own judgement, not anyone else's laws. It sounds like he has a "redistribution of wealth" philosophy, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. (The poor being himself, in this case.)

PS: Your English is a good deal better than some I've seen from people who've had it as their native language, and from what I know, it's extremely difficult to learn as a second. :clap:
damsel in distress
03-08-05, 03:33 PM thanks for your comments
He would not surrender seeing what doing time in prison has done to his father, but he would bluff / hide / run / use spells and - if everything else fails - attack. He would try to heal anyone bleeding after the fight if it is possible.
I like the "redistribution of wealth" :D - I will use that phrase many times
Jaxem
03-08-05, 03:54 PM Greetings,
Well, the fact that he steals and does not follow the laws pretty much makes him chaotic. That was the easy part since you don't seem to disagree with that part. Based on the rest of the things you have mentioned I would probably rule out Evil. Your character just does not seem evil they way you describe him or his attitudes. From the situations you have mentioned I would probably say that he is Neutral. The fact that he doesn't hurt (in any way via stealing etc) his family and friends does not make him good, simply neutral. As a matter of fact that is exactly how the PHB describes Ember the neutral character. It is not in his benefit to hurt them so why would he? The fact that he does not charge the poor people in need is offset by the fact that he charges the rich people in need and tries to take advantage of them as you mentioned. This seems more like a character personality than a moral choice. He was poor so he treats the poor people better since he can associate with them. If not he would probably take advantage of them too. As someone else mentioned, what would your character do if he killed someone by mistake? Since unless your are using strictly subdual damage it is going to be hard to control your damage exactly when a guard catches you. The potential to kill someone is still there unless you are taking extra steps to ensure their survival like bandaging their wounds or using nonlethal weapons.

This is why I would probably rank you closer to CN and not CG. Take into account it is very hard for people to agree on alignment so this is simply my opinion of how I would treat your char if I were running the game. No offense is intended and keep in mind the final judge of your char is the DM running your game when it comes down to the alignment.

Hope that helps,
-J
ehrin
03-08-05, 06:03 PM CN with good tendencies, or CG with heavy neutral tendencies. I would favor the CN, because of the stealing and the background.
Swift Raven
03-09-05, 05:37 PM As his DM, I agree with the CN.
Reinforcements
03-09-05, 08:44 PM He is most definitely chaotic. I doubt anyone would disagree one this point.

As for the "moral" axis (good/evil), it's a little trickier. I would say definitely not evil, but it could be a toss-up between neutral and good. If it were me I'd say good, but some people have this (weird if you ask me) idea that only really good people are good, so it could go either way.

Bottom line, I'd say CG.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
damsel in distress 03-08-05, 01:58 PM	English is not my primary language, please disregard poor spelling / phrasing ! I´m starting a 1st level character in a new campaign as a cleric of Oli-Damara and I´m discussing his alignment with my DM: He (the PC, not my DM :D )was one of many children in a poor familiy. His father was very poor and a petty criminal and often used his children as watch-outs or even as the thiefs in his many schemes. My character (dex 12, cha 17) was often used as watch and more than once talked his way out of troubble when surprised by guards etc. Once a break-in went wrong and his father was surprised and killed the owner of the store when he escaped. He was caught and imprisoned for many years. His mother had always tried to teach the boys not to do "wrong" stuff and be nice to other people. My character had to start making money of his own and started as a conartist. He remembered his poor upbringing (and his mother who disapproved of his fathers ill-doings) and never steals from people with few money. He will try to avoid hurting / killing people at almost any cost, but when cornered he will attack if this is the only way out. He will then try not to kill, but only wound his opponents. If he meets people in trouble he wil help them - if they are poor he will do it at no cost, if the person in trouble is rich he will charge him as much as he think he can get away with. Is his alignment CE (he steals etc), CN (he looks after himself primarily) or CG(he helps other people, he would never steal from friends or family etc) :confused: I have decided to change him if you and my DM think he is CE ;)
Damneon 03-08-05, 02:18 PM	You said he tries to avoid killing. If he were cornered by the guards and there is no way to escape, would he: Kill the guards to avoid capture? (CN) Surrender to avoid killing them? (CG) Ask your DM to come up with other situations like this. I think that his thievery is purely chaotic and has nothing to do with good and evil. Your DM may disagree. If he says that stealing is evil then you are stuck with that decision.
Anthus_Longblade 03-08-05, 03:23 PM	If I were the DM in this case, I would label the character Chaotic Good - Having respect for the welfare of others, but by his own judgement, not anyone else's laws. It sounds like he has a "redistribution of wealth" philosophy, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. (The poor being himself, in this case.) PS: Your English is a good deal better than some I've seen from people who've had it as their native language, and from what I know, it's extremely difficult to learn as a second. :clap:
damsel in distress 03-08-05, 03:33 PM	thanks for your comments He would not surrender seeing what doing time in prison has done to his father, but he would bluff / hide / run / use spells and - if everything else fails - attack. He would try to heal anyone bleeding after the fight if it is possible. I like the "redistribution of wealth" :D - I will use that phrase many times
Jaxem 03-08-05, 03:54 PM	Greetings, Well, the fact that he steals and does not follow the laws pretty much makes him chaotic. That was the easy part since you don't seem to disagree with that part. Based on the rest of the things you have mentioned I would probably rule out Evil. Your character just does not seem evil they way you describe him or his attitudes. From the situations you have mentioned I would probably say that he is Neutral. The fact that he doesn't hurt (in any way via stealing etc) his family and friends does not make him good, simply neutral. As a matter of fact that is exactly how the PHB describes Ember the neutral character. It is not in his benefit to hurt them so why would he? The fact that he does not charge the poor people in need is offset by the fact that he charges the rich people in need and tries to take advantage of them as you mentioned. This seems more like a character personality than a moral choice. He was poor so he treats the poor people better since he can associate with them. If not he would probably take advantage of them too. As someone else mentioned, what would your character do if he killed someone by mistake? Since unless your are using strictly subdual damage it is going to be hard to control your damage exactly when a guard catches you. The potential to kill someone is still there unless you are taking extra steps to ensure their survival like bandaging their wounds or using nonlethal weapons. This is why I would probably rank you closer to CN and not CG. Take into account it is very hard for people to agree on alignment so this is simply my opinion of how I would treat your char if I were running the game. No offense is intended and keep in mind the final judge of your char is the DM running your game when it comes down to the alignment. Hope that helps, -J
ehrin 03-08-05, 06:03 PM	CN with good tendencies, or CG with heavy neutral tendencies. I would favor the CN, because of the stealing and the background.
Swift Raven 03-09-05, 05:37 PM	As his DM, I agree with the CN.
Reinforcements 03-09-05, 08:44 PM	He is most definitely chaotic. I doubt anyone would disagree one this point. As for the "moral" axis (good/evil), it's a little trickier. I would say definitely not evil, but it could be a toss-up between neutral and good. If it were me I'd say good, but some people have this (weird if you ask me) idea that only really good people are good, so it could go either way. Bottom line, I'd say CG.