Alignment question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alignment question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Revan54115110
02-16-08, 10:28 PM This is a question on my characters alignment based on his back story but what I want to know not weather is his lawful with i already know but whether he is neutral or evil. ?
Ramirez is the black sheep of his family because he is not a mage and feels more at home in the wild any way. A graduate of his kingdoms military academy and during the great goblin war served in the military as part of the Ranger core doing border patrols and raids and ambushes
During the war he and his company what behind enemy lines and attack levelling goblins villages and wiping out groups of goblins whenever he could, and was recognised for his valour. there was also one during the war he has giving the order from the imperial courts to make any example of a village that was trying to broker a peace with the goblins and after forcing the children under the age of 12 to go to orphanages through the empire he ordered the execution ever member of the village and poisoned the well and sows the fields with salt and then hade the skulls placed in a pyramid and had a engraved on a human skull “this is the punishment for thus that betray the crown”. During a war with the Goblins killed his brothers (a Duskblade and a Swordsage ), and Father (a high ranking member of the cities mage guild) blames himself for it for he thinks he could have done more and swore Revenge on his honour to see them all dead and will kill an goblin on sight.
he also has to three sisters Janaga, and Branna ,that a Very strong mages and both are as different as day and night. His third sister Revan he thinks may have been killed in the war and does not look into it, for thinks he can only help the living.
Ramirez does not care about good or evil just her honour and believes that the end does at time justify the means. As well has a fascination with shadow dancers and stories of how well their are at infiltration to the point of living shadows.
After the war his uncle (Now calling himself Lord Ravenmoon) (a hexblade) took control of the House from him in a and he lost his rank and most of her privileges. So he became a mercenary and headed north for two things one to get stronger and two he needs money. For he plans to one day walk in his uncles blood andall thoues how helped him betray him (note we are talkeign about members of his own extended family here).
Character flaws: other than being a womanising cheat, he is also a clod hatred loner that is willing do just about anything to get his objects completed in his own agenda.

Well like i said before i think it is either lawful neutral or lawful evil but I kind of know he is not lawful good. what do you think ?
Urithair
02-16-08, 10:56 PM "willing do just about anything to get his objects completed in his own agenda."

Hmmm, lets start up the old evilometer *crank crank rattle bang bang chug chug whirrrrrrrr* Yeah, I'm registering evil.

You haven't really shown us the lawful side. In fact his rebellion against his family values and cheating ways are fairly chaotic.
Sinfire Titan
02-16-08, 11:00 PM First off: Textwall. Hit the Enter key every few sentences.

Secondly: Very Lawful Evil (with a tenancy to be Lawful Neutral). Your character sounds a lot like Geryon, ex-Archdevil of the Nine Hells (5th or 6th, I think it was the 6th). Loyal and willing to do anything for his superiors, even killing someone without regret (in this case, dooming an entire village). You have strong loyalties but no moral code, something a LN character would at least consider to be a balancing act.

Your personality is a heavily mixed variety of LE, what with:

For he plans to one day walk in his uncles blood and all those who helped him betray him (note we are talking about members of his own extended family here).

Character flaws: Other than being a womanizing cheat, he is also a cold hearted loner that is willing do just about anything to get his objectives completed in his own agenda.

Fixed for the sake of my damn eyes.

This screams LE, and should be discarded as a character concept unless the other players and the DM agree to allow this kind of behavior. Also, what is the deal with this name?!? Ramirez? As in the BBEG from Skies of Arcadia, one of the greatest RPGs ever made? Not saying you stole it, but please, show some originality here. The backstory looks very cliche and needs less angst and more "Bwa ha ha ha!" kind of villianizing to make it work.
Sinfire Titan
02-16-08, 11:01 PM "willing do just about anything to get his objects completed in his own agenda."

Hmmm, lets start up the old evilometer *crank crank rattle bang bang chug chug whirrrrrrrr* Yeah, I'm registering evil.

You haven't really shown us the lawful side. In fact his rebellion against his family values and cheating ways are fairly chaotic.

Cheating can be very Lawful Evil. See Felix Faust and any general interpretation of a Faustian Pact to get this idea.
Urithair
02-16-08, 11:49 PM "Cheating can be very Lawful Evil."

Granted, but there is almost nothing in this description that points to law. The fact that he was in the army and carried out his orders to kill doesn't automatically make him lawful. There is a reference to 'honour' but that doesn't automatically mean lawful either. Chaotic characters can follow their own code. Where is the discipline, planing, and order? Where is the belief that structure is paramount? The very idea that "the end does at time justify the means" points towards neutrality, because Law does not use Chaotic means.

We need more information. What are the common means and motivations? How did the char feel about killing the human village, why did he do it?

Is he a loner or does he like groups? Does he believe in planing or spontaneity? Does he believe in the system (not any specific system mind you, but the IDEA of a system)? If the answer to that last question is 'no' then he isn't Lawful.

I'm going with NE, perhaps TN if he isn't too harsh on the innocents.
justicar347
02-17-08, 12:05 AM I'd have to recomend Neutral Evil. The fact that he is willing to do anything to meet ends, is motivated to kill his family, and you describe him as cold hearted say that he is on the classic evil path to me. If you wanted to pull him up to neutral all you have to do is lighten up a few aspects. A few regrets about things done durring the war for starters. Make it more about regaining his possition than killing his uncle (this also pulls it more towards the lawful side). Change Cold Hearted to stoic and calous.

You say that you think he is Lawful, but mention some chaotic things such as rebelling against his family. Rangers and Shadow Dancers are necisarily Chaotic, but have a tendancy towards it as well. If you think that honor is really important to him and he is a millitary man at heart, then I think Lawful would be reasonable.

In the end it is up to you.
Revan54115110
02-17-08, 01:09 PM thanks for the help this is a character, that I am going to be play in a campaign next week I think I well make some minor changes like

1. Make it sound like the village incident and make it sound like if he refused he would have been executed,

2. In the case of his uncle try to make it at least have the uncle betray him and that his title was his birth right due to his fathers and brothers death.
question

by the way? Skies of Arcadia never heard of is it a campaign or book for I just chose a name at random,
Sinfire Titan
02-17-08, 02:46 PM thanks for the help this is a character, that I am going to be play in a campaign next week I think I well make some minor changes like

1. Make it sound like the village incident and make it sound like if he refused he would have been executed,

2. In the case of his uncle try to make it at least have the uncle betray him and that his title was his birth right due to his fathers and brothers death.
question

by the way? Skies of Arcadia never heard of is it a campaign or book for I just chose a name at random,

Well, it is a video game, but it is now a campaign setting thanks to yours truly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Revan54115110 02-16-08, 10:28 PM	This is a question on my characters alignment based on his back story but what I want to know not weather is his lawful with i already know but whether he is neutral or evil. ? Ramirez is the black sheep of his family because he is not a mage and feels more at home in the wild any way. A graduate of his kingdoms military academy and during the great goblin war served in the military as part of the Ranger core doing border patrols and raids and ambushes During the war he and his company what behind enemy lines and attack levelling goblins villages and wiping out groups of goblins whenever he could, and was recognised for his valour. there was also one during the war he has giving the order from the imperial courts to make any example of a village that was trying to broker a peace with the goblins and after forcing the children under the age of 12 to go to orphanages through the empire he ordered the execution ever member of the village and poisoned the well and sows the fields with salt and then hade the skulls placed in a pyramid and had a engraved on a human skull “this is the punishment for thus that betray the crown”. During a war with the Goblins killed his brothers (a Duskblade and a Swordsage ), and Father (a high ranking member of the cities mage guild) blames himself for it for he thinks he could have done more and swore Revenge on his honour to see them all dead and will kill an goblin on sight. he also has to three sisters Janaga, and Branna ,that a Very strong mages and both are as different as day and night. His third sister Revan he thinks may have been killed in the war and does not look into it, for thinks he can only help the living. Ramirez does not care about good or evil just her honour and believes that the end does at time justify the means. As well has a fascination with shadow dancers and stories of how well their are at infiltration to the point of living shadows. After the war his uncle (Now calling himself Lord Ravenmoon) (a hexblade) took control of the House from him in a and he lost his rank and most of her privileges. So he became a mercenary and headed north for two things one to get stronger and two he needs money. For he plans to one day walk in his uncles blood andall thoues how helped him betray him (note we are talkeign about members of his own extended family here). Character flaws: other than being a womanising cheat, he is also a clod hatred loner that is willing do just about anything to get his objects completed in his own agenda. Well like i said before i think it is either lawful neutral or lawful evil but I kind of know he is not lawful good. what do you think ?
Urithair 02-16-08, 10:56 PM	"willing do just about anything to get his objects completed in his own agenda." Hmmm, lets start up the old evilometer crank crank rattle bang bang chug chug whirrrrrrrr Yeah, I'm registering evil. You haven't really shown us the lawful side. In fact his rebellion against his family values and cheating ways are fairly chaotic.
Sinfire Titan 02-16-08, 11:00 PM	First off: Textwall. Hit the Enter key every few sentences. Secondly: Very Lawful Evil (with a tenancy to be Lawful Neutral). Your character sounds a lot like Geryon, ex-Archdevil of the Nine Hells (5th or 6th, I think it was the 6th). Loyal and willing to do anything for his superiors, even killing someone without regret (in this case, dooming an entire village). You have strong loyalties but no moral code, something a LN character would at least consider to be a balancing act. Your personality is a heavily mixed variety of LE, what with: For he plans to one day walk in his uncles blood and all those who helped him betray him (note we are talking about members of his own extended family here). Character flaws: Other than being a womanizing cheat, he is also a cold hearted loner that is willing do just about anything to get his objectives completed in his own agenda. Fixed for the sake of my damn eyes. This screams LE, and should be discarded as a character concept unless the other players and the DM agree to allow this kind of behavior. Also, what is the deal with this name?!? Ramirez? As in the BBEG from Skies of Arcadia, one of the greatest RPGs ever made? Not saying you stole it, but please, show some originality here. The backstory looks very cliche and needs less angst and more "Bwa ha ha ha!" kind of villianizing to make it work.
Sinfire Titan 02-16-08, 11:01 PM	"willing do just about anything to get his objects completed in his own agenda." Hmmm, lets start up the old evilometer crank crank rattle bang bang chug chug whirrrrrrrr Yeah, I'm registering evil. You haven't really shown us the lawful side. In fact his rebellion against his family values and cheating ways are fairly chaotic. Cheating can be very Lawful Evil. See Felix Faust and any general interpretation of a Faustian Pact to get this idea.
Urithair 02-16-08, 11:49 PM	"Cheating can be very Lawful Evil." Granted, but there is almost nothing in this description that points to law. The fact that he was in the army and carried out his orders to kill doesn't automatically make him lawful. There is a reference to 'honour' but that doesn't automatically mean lawful either. Chaotic characters can follow their own code. Where is the discipline, planing, and order? Where is the belief that structure is paramount? The very idea that "the end does at time justify the means" points towards neutrality, because Law does not use Chaotic means. We need more information. What are the common means and motivations? How did the char feel about killing the human village, why did he do it? Is he a loner or does he like groups? Does he believe in planing or spontaneity? Does he believe in the system (not any specific system mind you, but the IDEA of a system)? If the answer to that last question is 'no' then he isn't Lawful. I'm going with NE, perhaps TN if he isn't too harsh on the innocents.
justicar347 02-17-08, 12:05 AM	I'd have to recomend Neutral Evil. The fact that he is willing to do anything to meet ends, is motivated to kill his family, and you describe him as cold hearted say that he is on the classic evil path to me. If you wanted to pull him up to neutral all you have to do is lighten up a few aspects. A few regrets about things done durring the war for starters. Make it more about regaining his possition than killing his uncle (this also pulls it more towards the lawful side). Change Cold Hearted to stoic and calous. You say that you think he is Lawful, but mention some chaotic things such as rebelling against his family. Rangers and Shadow Dancers are necisarily Chaotic, but have a tendancy towards it as well. If you think that honor is really important to him and he is a millitary man at heart, then I think Lawful would be reasonable. In the end it is up to you.
Revan54115110 02-17-08, 01:09 PM	thanks for the help this is a character, that I am going to be play in a campaign next week I think I well make some minor changes like 1. Make it sound like the village incident and make it sound like if he refused he would have been executed, 2. In the case of his uncle try to make it at least have the uncle betray him and that his title was his birth right due to his fathers and brothers death. question by the way? Skies of Arcadia never heard of is it a campaign or book for I just chose a name at random,
Sinfire Titan 02-17-08, 02:46 PM	thanks for the help this is a character, that I am going to be play in a campaign next week I think I well make some minor changes like 1. Make it sound like the village incident and make it sound like if he refused he would have been executed, 2. In the case of his uncle try to make it at least have the uncle betray him and that his title was his birth right due to his fathers and brothers death. question by the way? Skies of Arcadia never heard of is it a campaign or book for I just chose a name at random, Well, it is a video game, but it is now a campaign setting thanks to yours truly.