Post/Author/DateTime	Post
metallicakid430 06-19-04, 03:11 AM	If I'm chaotic good, would it matter if I slaughterd a village?
Eidrog 06-19-04, 05:48 AM	Ummm. . . . Well. . . . YES!!!! EDIT* Wait a sec. . . what kind of village are we talking about there? Is this the village of the peace loving flower picking nymphs? Or is it the village of the crazy demonic rabbit eating goblins?
avanidk 06-19-04, 06:22 AM	Originally posted by metallicakid430 If I'm chaotic good, would it matter if I slaughterd a village? Are you serious?? That question would translate to a guy beeing asked by a judge if he knew what he had done, and he casually answered "Killed a few hundred people, nothing big"... Even slaughtering an orc village is hardly good (all those orc children that could be reformed)
Sir Neil 06-19-04, 08:29 AM	Originally posted by metallicakid430 If I'm chaotic good, would it matter if I slaughterd a village? Only if you had a problem with changing to chaotic evil.
metallicakid430 06-19-04, 12:30 PM	:D just a question... so how can i follow my alignment?
Thorak 06-19-04, 12:53 PM	Chaotic Good means you're Good; you respect life, you seek to help others better themselves, all that. It also means you're Chaotic; you think freedom is more important than law, you're impulsive, you do things on the spur of the moment rather than create complicated plans. These all being general rules. A Chaotic character could create complicated plans regularly, if he never ends up following them because he's so easily distracted by new events he goes with the flow. And Good characters, while respecting life and helping others, are neither stupid nor necessarily 'nice'. You can be a grumpy, surly arse if you want. But if you've got plenty of gold on you, and there's a couple of starving kids on the side of the road, you're probably going to surprise your traveling companions by tossing them a few coins, or even taking them along with you to the nearest village (assuming you're not under threat of danger or on a time-reliant quest, of course). This doesn't mean you're a sucker, though, if the kids look at the 10gp you just tossed them and say "gee, thanks, that might get us through Tuesday", you'd be stupid to give them more. Since 10gp, in D&D terms, is probably equivalent to a couple hundred bucks by modern standards.
Ghxstwiththemost 06-19-04, 02:47 PM	wow. chaotic neutral could do that but not chaotic good. chaotic good means you do what is right but not follow the law. slaughtering a village is evil. n00b. :D
Sir Neil 06-19-04, 09:54 PM	Originally posted by metallicakid430 so how can i follow my alignment? Chaotic: Never stop to think. Act irresponsibly. Despise authority. Screw honesty and honor, go with betrayal and cheating. Live for your emotions and appetites. Recognize nothing to be greater than the individual, and refuse to make personal sacrifices for others. Good: You embody the belief that all people are inherently deserving of dignity, and so you treat every person with respect. Here's how Leap put it once: Chaotic Good: This is the alignment of those who find meaning in their feelings and appetites, but who in this feel that sentient beings should be treated with dignity; although the chaotic good is unwilling to make any personal sacrifices to protect or enhance such dignity (but they may be willing to 'take risks' that will not automatically result in themselves losing out). A good example of chaotic good would be Shaggy from the Scooby Doo cartoons - who, although meaning well, is driven by his base appetites/feelings (fear and Scooby snacks).
Geethree 06-19-04, 10:52 PM	Instead of the misinformation presented here (chaotic people never stop to think? Act irresponsibly? Please), here's what the PHB says: A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.So no, it is very unlikely that a CG character would slaughter a village.
Sir Neil 06-20-04, 10:41 AM	Originally posted by Geethree (chaotic people never stop to think? Act irresponsibly? Please) I meant (although it admittedly wasn't clear) he shouldn't stop to think, instead he should try and act on impulse. Furhter, your very own SRD quote supports "Act irresponsibly": "[acting] with little regard for what others expect of him." If you say you're going to arrive at the graveyard at sunset with the wooden stakes, I "expect" you to be there at sunset with the wooden stakes. If you aren't you're "irresponsible". Chaotics are just as selfish as Evils, in their own way. The difference is hard to articulate. I'll try again later.
avanidk 06-20-04, 12:08 PM	Originally posted by Sir Neil I meant (although it admittedly wasn't clear) he shouldn't stop to think, instead he should try and act on impulse. .... Chaotics are just as selfish as Evils, in their own way. The difference is hard to articulate. I'll try again later. If I may make a small comment, I think you are making alignment to much of a straight-jacket... Yes, a chaotic person is more likly to act on impulse, but that doesn't mean that he has to. He can surely make elaborate plans. Think of Drow, who can very well make plans spanning hundreds of years, few creatures are as chaotic as them.
Sir Neil 06-20-04, 08:40 PM	Originally posted by avanidk If I may make a small comment, I think you are making alignment to much of a straight-jacket.... I believe you've misunderstood me. :) Alignment isn't a straitjacket, it's a little bunny on a leash held by the character. This Bunny-In-Question (BIQ) is happy nibbling on the CG grass along your path. If during the course of play your character wanders onto the asphalt highway of LE, the bunny will only resist for so long before being yanked along behind you. Metallicakid wanted to know how to stay on the CG grass, so I'm offering him my advice with both hands. The list I posted under "Chaotic" isn't an ironclad contract, but a... buffet of grass-like traits, for Metallicakid to pick and choose from when role-playing, so he doesn't accidentally yank the bunny into the road.
Luminous Crayon 06-20-04, 08:53 PM	Originally posted by metallicakid430 If I'm chaotic good, would it matter if I slaughterd a village? It always matters when a village is slaughtered. If to no one else, it matters to the villagers.
Sidious 06-20-04, 09:20 PM	Actually, when you stop to think about, no one has ever been bothered by being dead.
Luminous Crayon 06-20-04, 09:50 PM	Originally posted by Sidious Actually, when you stop to think about, no one has ever been bothered by being dead. What an absurd thing to say. Were I killed, I would be greatly annoyed.
Sidious 06-20-04, 10:05 PM	No, while you're being killed you'd be annoyed. The point of being dead is that that you're dead. Bam. You're finished. What is, in fact, PO'ed? If you're not dead enough to be annoyed about it something's wrong...
Thorak 06-20-04, 11:18 PM	Originally posted by Sir Neil Chaotics are just as selfish as Evils, in their own way. The difference is hard to articulate. I'll try again later. Chaos isn't selfish. It's impulsive. It's perfectly Chaotic, and Good, to see a child begging at the side of the road and just decide to give them all your money. It may not be smart, but it's perfectly Good, and perfectly Chaotic. Evil, however, is selfish. The only way an evil person is going to give money to a beggar-child is if he's got some ulterior motive. It might be part of a nefarious, complicated plot (LE), or a spur-of-the-moment impress-this-gal-so's-I-get-some attempt (CE). The impulsiveness of the act has absolutely no bearing on how good or evil the act was. Chaotics are no more selfish than Lawfuls; they believe that everyone should decide for themselves what's right, rather than being told. For this to be selfish, they'd have to be trying to force their own views on other people. That's not a Chaotic trait; if anything, trying to force a set of beliefs on someone is Lawful.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 06-20-04, 11:35 PM	Depends. If they were all babies, and you lit them on fire out of spite, you would be Lawful Good, and could be a Paladin. Well, at least according to some people. Seriously, slaughtering an entire village is a one way ticket to evil.
TheDarkLord 06-20-04, 11:43 PM	Who said Good can't be selfish? Let me point you in the Directions of Good dragons. Tell me they're not selfish. As for slaughtering a village... depends. A normal Village yes. A village of Ravenous CE demons, thats another thing all together.
Thorak 06-21-04, 01:24 AM	Originally posted by TheDarkLord Who said Good can't be selfish? Let me point you in the Directions of Good dragons. Tell me they're not selfish. You are confusing self-interest with selfishness. A good Dragon is still a Dragon. He's a superior creature to humans. And so, they feel as much need to use their money to help most humans as most humans feel the need to spend their money to help mice live their lives. We don't condemn humans for not thinking of the mice, and you can't condemn a dragon for not thinking of the humans for the same reason. That aside; there's nothing selfish about accumulating wealth. And most Good dragons will use that wealth for Good causes. Heck, take a look at the PrC in the Complete Warrior; the Champion of Bahamut or whatever. The best Good dragon gives his champions bits of his hoard to encourage their efforts. If the Good dragon puts his wealth before the good that could be done with it, then he's entering selfish territory and is edging on evil. But accumulating wealth to serve further causes? Sounds like you'd also say most PCs are evil too, or at least need to leave all that treasure they find in the dungeons where they found it.
Astanphaeus 06-21-04, 02:28 AM	There's "selfishness" and then there's "rational selfishness" or "enlightened self interest". Chaotic Good is the latter. That's pretty much the only sensical result you can get when you try to mesh the ideals of individualism and altruism. It's the code of the individualist, tempered by goodly priorities. It's saying: "while I embrace individualism, I recognize that I don't live in a vacuum. I'll treat others how I would like to be treated." It's also: "I don't do the right thing because it's what some outside authority tells me I should do. I do it because I think it's the right thing to do." To say that Chaotic = irresponsible is not completely accurate. Irresponsibility can be one of the ways in which a chaotic personality is expressed, but it doesn't have to be. While all chronically irresponsible characters are no doubt chaotic, not all chaotic characters are chronically irresponsible. It depends on the individual's personal code (which they're going to follow, no matter what anyone else thinks about it). This is fairly well spelled out in the PH (pg. 104). Hedonism is also not a universal trait for chaotic characters. Chaotic characters who are also goodly are less inclined to indulge in such things (and may not indulge in them at all). Living for your own instant gratification is very much a CN trait. If you introduce priorities such as "respect for life" and "concern for the dignity of sentient beings", you can no longer have a creature governed entirely by whim. ~ A.
Daybreaker 06-21-04, 03:22 AM	I don't think that Chaotic Good characters are meant to be selfish, irresponsible or impulsive. I think they're just meant to be Chaotic, as opposed to Lawful. To further use the example of two characters, one Chaotic Good and one Lawful Good, both approached by beggars -- but this time, adding the factor that it's considered either dishonorable or illegal to give money to beggars: The Lawful Good character won't give money to the beggars, because it's illegal. They will, however, probably try to find some legal method of helping them. For example, if the law doesn't say specifically say anything about giving food to beggars, that's what a Lawful Good character might do. The Chaotic Good is more likely to say, "Screw it. The good thing to do is to give up some gold." To a Chaotic Good character, the law, local community standards and any peer pressure that might come from the Lawful Good character are at best inconveniences just getting in the way of doing the right thing. Basically, a Chaotic Good character will act in ways that are moral, but not necessarily ethical. A Chaotic Good character will lie, cheat and steal in the pursuit of a good cause. A Chaotic Good character is not likely to submit to a chain of command, or recognize any kind of authority -- nor, for that matter, is a Chaotic Good likely to attempt to establish themselves as an authority. Some Chaotic Good characters might put stock in the philosophy that Law and Good are somewhat mutually exclusive.
Sir Neil 06-21-04, 10:21 PM	Originally posted by Astanphaeus It depends on the individual's personal code (which they're going to follow, no matter what anyone else thinks about it). This is fairly well spelled out in the PH (pg. 104). I'm pretty sure personal codes are LN. (104 of my PH has the armor tjart. Damn 3.$.) Yup, here it is, "A lawful neutral character acts as ... a personal code directs her. ... She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard...." (Trimmed from the SRD for emphasis.) Looks like LN stole CG's schtick. Thorak, putting your whims above your responsibility is selfish... or perhaps immature is the word I'm looking for. I'm heading out west Wednesday, but I'll keep thinking on it and respond when I can.
Astanphaeus 06-21-04, 11:37 PM	Originally posted by Sir Neil Looks like LN stole CG's schtick. Not really, no. If alignment represents values -- and it does -- than every character is going to have a moral code of one sort or another, even if it's: screw codes. That's part of what alignment is all about. "A creature's general moral and philosophical attitude is represented by its alignment." Regarding codes, here's another way to look at it... Lawful: go by the letter. Rigid. Uncompromising. Chaotic: go by the spirit. Adaptable. Flexible. That aside, you're still defining Chaotic too narrowly. ~ A.