All party memebers dead [Archive] - Wizards Community

All party memebers dead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Greenstone
11-26-06, 09:45 AM Recently I was in a campaign in which all memebers of the party were killed. We were in a "City of the Dead" and had several battles, working our way to the portal in the center of the city. Our final battle was against a Lich (I don't remember exactly but i think it was a 9th level wiz). All of us were weak from previous battles. We knew we would need to put this thing away quick. It did'nt happen - Two rounds and a fireball later we had all died.
In our campaigns we always had a rule - If all members die - thats it. Time to make new chars and start a different campaign.
I was just curious if this has happened to anyone else. It was the first time in my years of playing that all members died at once.
draco1119
11-26-06, 10:16 AM Welcome to the land of the TPK!! It happens every once in a while. Happened to the group I'm in when the DM went by the CR of an Arrow Demon. They should NOT be CR 7!
Khurgan
11-26-06, 10:20 AM In our campaigns we always had a rule - If all members die - thats it. Time to make new chars and start a different campaign.
.

Yeah - that's what happened to us in shackled City recently. TPK (Total Party Kill(ed)) but we'd managed to stop the summoning before going down so Faerun is saved!

Now we've started Age of Worms - no deaths yet but tonight's a different gaming night...
Greenstone
11-26-06, 10:28 AM Glad I am not alone in this - I did not think I was...

I lost a char I had spent a great deal of time creating. (background, family history, entire city with politics, guilds, underworld, and maps) An Urban Ranger with a Minor Vampire Bloodline (UA).
alecthemad
11-26-06, 11:32 AM Greenstone you should remember the rule of character creation.

A character's life is inversely proportional to the amount of time and effort the player puts into his background.

The corollary is that the time a DM puts into a players background is inversely proportional to the time the player spends at the table.
Sir Ferdinand
11-26-06, 12:52 PM All party members dying at once (well in a single encounter I mean) is very common in our games. We've had to start our games all over at least 30 times during these ummm... 7-8 years we've played (though only like 5-6 years have been decently active playing, the past 2 or so years have been very slow).

One of the funniest endings was when we were totally bored of the nothing-but-hack'n'slash-game, and we decided to go challenge a decent-sized dragon with our 7-9 level group. The battle lasted some time, so it wasn't a quick death for all the party members, but still full death for the party after a while.
Arameas
11-26-06, 02:18 PM TPK happens, and sometimes it can annoying the DM more than the players.

We had just started a new campaign with a new (but experianced player) DM and he wasn't quite up to the challange of balancing challange ratings. First game, and the whole party would have died except he brought in his uber NPC to save us. Second time, much better CR balancing and we just sort of mucked up, and as we were one guy down... splat, splat, splat, we all fell. Oh well, Despite all of us having some nice back stories and the DM having written them into the story (to which he was a bit upset about) we made new chara's and have taken over where the others left off. This time we have beefed our chara's up a little bit and all is going well!

For the most part don't worry. It is a pain when you get that, as I know people can get attached to a chara but heh, time to go and try out that new idea that has been sitting at the back of your mind.
Thubby
11-26-06, 02:46 PM tpk...it happens.

I think its happend to just about every player with a good amount of player under theri belt.
its often worse for the DM. a player spends a few hours, maybe a day or 2, making a character. the DM spends months, if not longer, making a campaigne. when a tpk happens, that means all that went out the window. a story that will never be told, and months of work that will never see the light of day.
Sphyre
11-26-06, 04:23 PM I've gone both ways.

We've stopped complete campaigns at TPK. But I've just started the campaign all over simply because it was so close to the beginning, and changed the beginning a bit so it wouldn't be redundant.

But thinking about it, I think if my current campaign everyone died, I'd still continue running it, but do something interesting.

I'd have a little monologue that basically gave the synopsis of where I'd be starting in the campaign. Basically explain that the world has fallen into dispair controlled mostly by the mindflayers. Recently a group of adventurers(The previous PC party) stopped by the Dark Refuge with intentions to stop them, but it seems all that has failed. Now there's talk in the Dark Refuge, that others are trying to band together to break the Mindflayer's control over the world.

Since the player' characters lived in the world before the world fell under the mindflayers control, and then lived through the "taking over," everyone would have unique backstories tied very deeply in with the campaign world. The new characters would just be in a different perspective. I think it might work quite well. I'll be sure to come back and share my experience if this actually comes to pass.
PiedmonSama
11-26-06, 04:36 PM Recently I was in a campaign in which all memebers of the party were killed. We were in a "City of the Dead" and had several battles, working our way to the portal in the center of the city. Our final battle was against a Lich (I don't remember exactly but i think it was a 9th level wiz). All of us were weak from previous battles. We knew we would need to put this thing away quick. It did'nt happen - Two rounds and a fireball later we had all died.
In our campaigns we always had a rule - If all members die - thats it. Time to make new chars and start a different campaign.
I was just curious if this has happened to anyone else. It was the first time in my years of playing that all members died at once.

In all honesty, if you've played for years without ever experiencing a TPK, you're either lucky or you've had some nice DMs. Not that the DM should try to kill his players, but if the adventure is going to be truly challenging then there has to be that risk.
quenya
11-26-06, 04:48 PM TPK is at the same time the best and worst aspect of the game. At its worst is a DM setting up a deadly but managable challenge to add a great deal of excitement to a campaign, then luck rolls the wrong way for too long and/or players make some bad decisions and... TPK. On the other hand at the right moments a fear of TPK can encourage players to make some very dramatic actions. And once a group knows a DM won't undue a TPK they will play more cautiously...
Greenstone
11-27-06, 07:08 PM Great feed back!
To answer some comments left by others....
I was not complaining about losing my char, although I admit, I am a little disapointed to not see his full potential.
I have been playing on and off for over 15 years, so i agree that it is odd that this was the first TPK I was involved with. I think you are correct on both accounts I have been both lucky and with my share of nice DM's.
I agree that it seems to be the best and worst that could happen, it will keep me cautious, but also wanting to keep adventure on the edge.
starfire311
11-27-06, 08:04 PM Welcome to the land of the TPK!! It happens every once in a while. Happened to the group I'm in when the DM went by the CR of an Arrow Demon. They should NOT be CR 7!

lol, yeah I screwed up with that and it was part of a TPK with a half-fiend mature adult white dragon CR 15, this was the Boss encounter for a one shot, thought it would be a nice tough encounter for 6 level 11 PCs(with nice level 13 gear) so I had an ogre with 4 barbarian level CR 7 and the dragon CR 15.

The dragon hears them coming and casts summon monster IX summoning 4 arrow demons... they actually probabably would have won the encounter with only 3 PC deaths, but the dragon got got up close and blasphemy reduced their numbers to 1 and it was that one vs the dragon(they killed the arrow demons and the ogre), and that 1 went down.

anyway TPKs happen, and they can be memorable, it was both mine and my PCs faults, I undervalued the arrow demons and blasphemy, didnt realize how nasty it is when the caster level is 21 and the PC level is 11... they also made a few mistakes, one gave the dragon round of prep time
ressurrector
11-27-06, 08:10 PM Never had a TPK, the DM however just recently got reallyclose with roughly 60 converted 2e Urchins of various grades shooting us in a surprise round.
3 dead, one at 4hp, and one at near full due to impressive AC.
lvl 7 party

Creatures that get 1-5shots, as a standard action, with paralytic poision, should not be grouped together and given a surprise round!
itcamefromthedeep
11-27-06, 08:25 PM ---I am very proud to say that the party has been in what appeared to be a potential TPK situation at LEAST once per session, but the party has only suffered a single death so far (Ogre gets a critical with a greataxe, there's not much you can do to stop THAT one).

---A near-death-experience came when I pulled out the monsters and started the enocunter, not realizing that I was only supposed to use ONE of the Will-o-Wisps. As soon as I realized how INCREDIBLY badly the party was screwed I pulled out some Deus Ex Machina and a high-level wizard scared them off (but not before the PCs despaired of survival).

---If all else fails and the TPK happens, you could always do this:
DM: Well, that was interesting. Anyway, (in-game voice) "When you guys regain consciousness you find yourselves in a dark chamber. You see each other clearly, despite the lack of a light source. The stone beds underneath you do not feel cold at all, which is when you realize that you cannot feel anything." Congratulations, Fighter, you're a Wight. Wizard, you're a Lich. Rogue, you're a Ghoul. Cleric, you get to ba Lich as well. Redo your sheets, minus the equipment, and I'll see you next session.
Greenstone
11-27-06, 08:41 PM ....ItCameFromeTheUndead.....
Interesting proposal. I will run that by the DM for future campaigns
ressurrector
11-27-06, 08:53 PM ---If all else fails and the TPK happens, you could always do this:
DM: Well, that was interesting. Anyway, (in-game voice) "When you guys regain consciousness you find yourselves in a dark chamber. You see each other clearly, despite the lack of a light source. The stone beds underneath you do not feel cold at all, which is when you realize that you cannot feel anything." Congratulations, Fighter, you're a Wight. Wizard, you're a Lich. Rogue, you're a Ghoul. Cleric, you get to ba Lich as well. Redo your sheets, minus the equipment, and I'll see you next session.

Ooh, I like this, much better than ghostwalk.
Nathreet
11-27-06, 09:39 PM And I thought my DM was harsh. Almost every session the wizard would cart out the unconcious/dead on Tenser's Floating Discs. Sometimes he'd give us rods of ressurection (at low level even), another time my character and two others had their heads returned in a bag. And they were soul trapped.
Kobold_Avenger
11-28-06, 02:55 AM ---If all else fails and the TPK happens, you could always do this:
DM: Well, that was interesting. Anyway, (in-game voice) "When you guys regain consciousness you find yourselves in a dark chamber. You see each other clearly, despite the lack of a light source. The stone beds underneath you do not feel cold at all, which is when you realize that you cannot feel anything." Congratulations, Fighter, you're a Wight. Wizard, you're a Lich. Rogue, you're a Ghoul. Cleric, you get to ba Lich as well. Redo your sheets, minus the equipment, and I'll see you next session. That's a great idea.
Sphyre
11-28-06, 03:50 AM That's a great idea.

Thirded.
Dricon
12-04-06, 01:28 PM I have been on both ends of a TPK as a player and as a DM. If a TPK happens because of a well fought battle, or a complex trap that the players could not solve then most players can accept the results. If it happens because the DM completely miscalcualted the level of the party then some players have a hard time accepting it. But a DM is going to make mistakes just as players, its the over all journey that is the reward not one tell tale event - that just makes good water cooler discussions.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Greenstone 11-26-06, 09:45 AM	Recently I was in a campaign in which all memebers of the party were killed. We were in a "City of the Dead" and had several battles, working our way to the portal in the center of the city. Our final battle was against a Lich (I don't remember exactly but i think it was a 9th level wiz). All of us were weak from previous battles. We knew we would need to put this thing away quick. It did'nt happen - Two rounds and a fireball later we had all died. In our campaigns we always had a rule - If all members die - thats it. Time to make new chars and start a different campaign. I was just curious if this has happened to anyone else. It was the first time in my years of playing that all members died at once.
draco1119 11-26-06, 10:16 AM	Welcome to the land of the TPK!! It happens every once in a while. Happened to the group I'm in when the DM went by the CR of an Arrow Demon. They should NOT be CR 7!
Khurgan 11-26-06, 10:20 AM	In our campaigns we always had a rule - If all members die - thats it. Time to make new chars and start a different campaign. . Yeah - that's what happened to us in shackled City recently. TPK (Total Party Kill(ed)) but we'd managed to stop the summoning before going down so Faerun is saved! Now we've started Age of Worms - no deaths yet but tonight's a different gaming night...
Greenstone 11-26-06, 10:28 AM	Glad I am not alone in this - I did not think I was... I lost a char I had spent a great deal of time creating. (background, family history, entire city with politics, guilds, underworld, and maps) An Urban Ranger with a Minor Vampire Bloodline (UA).
alecthemad 11-26-06, 11:32 AM	Greenstone you should remember the rule of character creation. A character's life is inversely proportional to the amount of time and effort the player puts into his background. The corollary is that the time a DM puts into a players background is inversely proportional to the time the player spends at the table.
Sir Ferdinand 11-26-06, 12:52 PM	All party members dying at once (well in a single encounter I mean) is very common in our games. We've had to start our games all over at least 30 times during these ummm... 7-8 years we've played (though only like 5-6 years have been decently active playing, the past 2 or so years have been very slow). One of the funniest endings was when we were totally bored of the nothing-but-hack'n'slash-game, and we decided to go challenge a decent-sized dragon with our 7-9 level group. The battle lasted some time, so it wasn't a quick death for all the party members, but still full death for the party after a while.
Arameas 11-26-06, 02:18 PM	TPK happens, and sometimes it can annoying the DM more than the players. We had just started a new campaign with a new (but experianced player) DM and he wasn't quite up to the challange of balancing challange ratings. First game, and the whole party would have died except he brought in his uber NPC to save us. Second time, much better CR balancing and we just sort of mucked up, and as we were one guy down... splat, splat, splat, we all fell. Oh well, Despite all of us having some nice back stories and the DM having written them into the story (to which he was a bit upset about) we made new chara's and have taken over where the others left off. This time we have beefed our chara's up a little bit and all is going well! For the most part don't worry. It is a pain when you get that, as I know people can get attached to a chara but heh, time to go and try out that new idea that has been sitting at the back of your mind.
Thubby 11-26-06, 02:46 PM	tpk...it happens. I think its happend to just about every player with a good amount of player under theri belt. its often worse for the DM. a player spends a few hours, maybe a day or 2, making a character. the DM spends months, if not longer, making a campaigne. when a tpk happens, that means all that went out the window. a story that will never be told, and months of work that will never see the light of day.
Sphyre 11-26-06, 04:23 PM	I've gone both ways. We've stopped complete campaigns at TPK. But I've just started the campaign all over simply because it was so close to the beginning, and changed the beginning a bit so it wouldn't be redundant. But thinking about it, I think if my current campaign everyone died, I'd still continue running it, but do something interesting. I'd have a little monologue that basically gave the synopsis of where I'd be starting in the campaign. Basically explain that the world has fallen into dispair controlled mostly by the mindflayers. Recently a group of adventurers(The previous PC party) stopped by the Dark Refuge with intentions to stop them, but it seems all that has failed. Now there's talk in the Dark Refuge, that others are trying to band together to break the Mindflayer's control over the world. Since the player' characters lived in the world before the world fell under the mindflayers control, and then lived through the "taking over," everyone would have unique backstories tied very deeply in with the campaign world. The new characters would just be in a different perspective. I think it might work quite well. I'll be sure to come back and share my experience if this actually comes to pass.
PiedmonSama 11-26-06, 04:36 PM	Recently I was in a campaign in which all memebers of the party were killed. We were in a "City of the Dead" and had several battles, working our way to the portal in the center of the city. Our final battle was against a Lich (I don't remember exactly but i think it was a 9th level wiz). All of us were weak from previous battles. We knew we would need to put this thing away quick. It did'nt happen - Two rounds and a fireball later we had all died. In our campaigns we always had a rule - If all members die - thats it. Time to make new chars and start a different campaign. I was just curious if this has happened to anyone else. It was the first time in my years of playing that all members died at once. In all honesty, if you've played for years without ever experiencing a TPK, you're either lucky or you've had some nice DMs. Not that the DM should try to kill his players, but if the adventure is going to be truly challenging then there has to be that risk.
quenya 11-26-06, 04:48 PM	TPK is at the same time the best and worst aspect of the game. At its worst is a DM setting up a deadly but managable challenge to add a great deal of excitement to a campaign, then luck rolls the wrong way for too long and/or players make some bad decisions and... TPK. On the other hand at the right moments a fear of TPK can encourage players to make some very dramatic actions. And once a group knows a DM won't undue a TPK they will play more cautiously...
Greenstone 11-27-06, 07:08 PM	Great feed back! To answer some comments left by others.... I was not complaining about losing my char, although I admit, I am a little disapointed to not see his full potential. I have been playing on and off for over 15 years, so i agree that it is odd that this was the first TPK I was involved with. I think you are correct on both accounts I have been both lucky and with my share of nice DM's. I agree that it seems to be the best and worst that could happen, it will keep me cautious, but also wanting to keep adventure on the edge.
starfire311 11-27-06, 08:04 PM	Welcome to the land of the TPK!! It happens every once in a while. Happened to the group I'm in when the DM went by the CR of an Arrow Demon. They should NOT be CR 7! lol, yeah I screwed up with that and it was part of a TPK with a half-fiend mature adult white dragon CR 15, this was the Boss encounter for a one shot, thought it would be a nice tough encounter for 6 level 11 PCs(with nice level 13 gear) so I had an ogre with 4 barbarian level CR 7 and the dragon CR 15. The dragon hears them coming and casts summon monster IX summoning 4 arrow demons... they actually probabably would have won the encounter with only 3 PC deaths, but the dragon got got up close and blasphemy reduced their numbers to 1 and it was that one vs the dragon(they killed the arrow demons and the ogre), and that 1 went down. anyway TPKs happen, and they can be memorable, it was both mine and my PCs faults, I undervalued the arrow demons and blasphemy, didnt realize how nasty it is when the caster level is 21 and the PC level is 11... they also made a few mistakes, one gave the dragon round of prep time
ressurrector 11-27-06, 08:10 PM	Never had a TPK, the DM however just recently got reallyclose with roughly 60 converted 2e Urchins of various grades shooting us in a surprise round. 3 dead, one at 4hp, and one at near full due to impressive AC. lvl 7 party Creatures that get 1-5shots, as a standard action, with paralytic poision, should not be grouped together and given a surprise round!
itcamefromthedeep 11-27-06, 08:25 PM	---I am very proud to say that the party has been in what appeared to be a potential TPK situation at LEAST once per session, but the party has only suffered a single death so far (Ogre gets a critical with a greataxe, there's not much you can do to stop THAT one). ---A near-death-experience came when I pulled out the monsters and started the enocunter, not realizing that I was only supposed to use ONE of the Will-o-Wisps. As soon as I realized how INCREDIBLY badly the party was screwed I pulled out some Deus Ex Machina and a high-level wizard scared them off (but not before the PCs despaired of survival). ---If all else fails and the TPK happens, you could always do this: DM: Well, that was interesting. Anyway, (in-game voice) "When you guys regain consciousness you find yourselves in a dark chamber. You see each other clearly, despite the lack of a light source. The stone beds underneath you do not feel cold at all, which is when you realize that you cannot feel anything." Congratulations, Fighter, you're a Wight. Wizard, you're a Lich. Rogue, you're a Ghoul. Cleric, you get to ba Lich as well. Redo your sheets, minus the equipment, and I'll see you next session.
Greenstone 11-27-06, 08:41 PM	....ItCameFromeTheUndead..... Interesting proposal. I will run that by the DM for future campaigns
ressurrector 11-27-06, 08:53 PM	---If all else fails and the TPK happens, you could always do this: DM: Well, that was interesting. Anyway, (in-game voice) "When you guys regain consciousness you find yourselves in a dark chamber. You see each other clearly, despite the lack of a light source. The stone beds underneath you do not feel cold at all, which is when you realize that you cannot feel anything." Congratulations, Fighter, you're a Wight. Wizard, you're a Lich. Rogue, you're a Ghoul. Cleric, you get to ba Lich as well. Redo your sheets, minus the equipment, and I'll see you next session. Ooh, I like this, much better than ghostwalk.
Nathreet 11-27-06, 09:39 PM	And I thought my DM was harsh. Almost every session the wizard would cart out the unconcious/dead on Tenser's Floating Discs. Sometimes he'd give us rods of ressurection (at low level even), another time my character and two others had their heads returned in a bag. And they were soul trapped.
Kobold_Avenger 11-28-06, 02:55 AM	---If all else fails and the TPK happens, you could always do this: DM: Well, that was interesting. Anyway, (in-game voice) "When you guys regain consciousness you find yourselves in a dark chamber. You see each other clearly, despite the lack of a light source. The stone beds underneath you do not feel cold at all, which is when you realize that you cannot feel anything." Congratulations, Fighter, you're a Wight. Wizard, you're a Lich. Rogue, you're a Ghoul. Cleric, you get to ba Lich as well. Redo your sheets, minus the equipment, and I'll see you next session. That's a great idea.
Sphyre 11-28-06, 03:50 AM	That's a great idea. Thirded.
Dricon 12-04-06, 01:28 PM	I have been on both ends of a TPK as a player and as a DM. If a TPK happens because of a well fought battle, or a complex trap that the players could not solve then most players can accept the results. If it happens because the DM completely miscalcualted the level of the party then some players have a hard time accepting it. But a DM is going to make mistakes just as players, its the over all journey that is the reward not one tell tale event - that just makes good water cooler discussions.