Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Becket360 02-24-08, 06:25 PM	In my weekly DnD game there has been an issue coming up. It is important for me to say that first, our DM does not like to handle party disputes since it is up to us players to work together. A month ago the dnd game I played in had four players, which meant we couldn't play if one player missed. So we asked two people to join us. One fit instantly got along with everyone at the table. The other player (fighter) is a different story. At the local gaming store the fighter and the paladin (one of the original four) haven't ever really gotten along. Mostly at DDM they would be very competitive and would take jabs at each other (each DM's a game on the same night at the local store). The first time the fighter (who was playing a rogue at this time and died at the end of the first session) played with us there were some problems that came up on how we did a loot split. The paladin had mentioned he had a little over 5000 sitting at his house (in game) earlier in the session and we got two armor enhancing items which the pally wanted. Fighter (again, playing a rogue at the moment) wanted one of the items since it would help him be able to fight. Paladin got upset about this since he was currently the tank (even though he hasn't been spending money on improving his equip, only rp stuff and complains how his character is under equipped) and we usually give items who could use them the most. Me, being the one who is usually the in group problem solver, just went along with splitting the items between the two to cut down on a potential argument. By the end of the night the paladin died (last hit of course hit dead on his ac) and he stormed out right then and there before the next person in init could go. The rogue(fighter) died in the following round. Now at this point the fighter person wasn't going to play with us anymore since in his own words "this isn't worth the drama". Paladin later (through e-mail) says that he will be taking two weeks off to get some stuff done. Fighter says he will play with us for two weeks but is gone after that. Next week goes on with no problems at all and the fighter is now playing his fighter (hence why I’ve called him fighter). On the third week I decide my character is going to rez the paladin since they had been adventuring together since level one (were level 7 at the time). So my character had the body and worked out an agreement where payment for the Rez had to be given to the paladin's main church (not done by rules, but the dm allowed it). i chose not to rez the rogue since in game how role-playing worked out the rogue and paladin were very likely to end up killing each other. The paladin and fighter talk it over on the phone and agree that they are going to try to get along. They get along fine at the game table and characters role playing-wise get along. Now the $h!t storm occurs. Role playing wise the paladin had said he was going to be getting married in June which my character (female sorc) wanted to be a bridesmaid, which was something I made very known. At the beginning of this session the paladin is awarded a keep we had just taken back from a bunch of ogres and gets a title. at this point the paladin announces he is going to a different town and asks if anyone would like to join him. The party cleric agrees to go with him and they set off. My character after this goes and pays for the paladin's rez, identifies the new magic items, and sells off those that aren't needed. The paladin and cleric are late by four days to arrive back to the main city. When they do arrive it turns out that the paladin got married around game time of December. I have no idea how my character is going to handle this at this point and kind of ignore it, though I do make a notice that my character is upset by these turning of events. The night continues on with us arriving at the town the keep is supposed to protect being under attack. In the end the town’s church is destroyed. Instantly the paladin gives money to the surviving cleric of the church to rebuild without hesitation. Role-playing in town occurs over the next two days. On the third day my character and the cleric going on a quick mini quest (10 minutes roughly irl time, 7 hours in game) which causes the party to wait a day (besides the fact me and the cleric tell the rest of the party to continue to the keep). On the fourth day when we set out to the keep and are about an hour from it, we look down into a valley and see that a local dam had broken and was rushing to the small town. The small town is devastated with 2/3 of those living there dieing instantly. At the end of this session we usually hang out in the parking lot to discuss what happen in game and if we need to plan anything for next session. When everyone else except myself, cleric, fighter, and paladin had left an argument started between the fighter and paladin. The paladin was going on a spill about how the fighter should be loyal to him since he appointed him the master-at-arms, or something along those lines, of his keep. The fighter was saying that he was loyal to what got him the most reward. This continues for about 5 minutes until the paladin player starts cursing out the fighter and saying that his character shouldn't come with us if he isn't loyal to the paladin. This will be the second session where the paladin tries to make himself the leader of the party. I step in and break up the argument. The paladin leaves under a fury of throwing curse words at the fighter and leaves in a not so pleasant matter. So to sum it up: -Loot is becoming a problem with how the Paladin is spending his money on not improving his character for adventuring -the fighter and paladin arent getting along with the paladin player picking fights with the fighter character -the fighter player is thinking about killing the paladin in game -my character is now indifferent towards the paladin and is looking for ways to ruin his "happy little world" due to not being the bridesmaid she wanted to be -the paladin is trying to become the centeral leader of the party instead of just "the face" -The paladin player is becoming more and more hostile towards everyone with each following week. So then, I lay my problems upon the "What's a player to do?" forum and plead for assitance in these matters. How am I to deconstruct this problem between the players? How am I to not kill the paladin by make his life difficult for my scorned sorceress? How am I to work out this problem with the loot?
Chrono Nexus 02-24-08, 09:14 PM	What can you do? Leave it to the DM, or to the owner of the store. If you feel these two are disrupting the game and other peoples' fun, mention it to the DM. Or you could just DM yourself, but I doubt you want that kind of headache:D It doesn't really matter what you do. Some people just don't get along, some do. I lucked out, and everyone in my group are good friends (and good players too).
Sinfire Titan 02-24-08, 09:14 PM	Step 1: Let the Paladin die of a natural cause. (Or let the fighter kill him anyway.) Step 2: Never Rez anything that is LG again. Step 3: ??? Step 4: Loot Corpses. Seriously though, the problem is that the Paladin is holding the group back (by RPing and not upgrading equipment) and causing problems. This is something that needs to change. Let him die from some other cause and just leave the corpse for dead and gone. You don't want the responsibility of the crime on your hands either, bad karma. Or just do what every adventuring party does with snooty jackasses wearing Platemail with a d10 for HD: Let him activate the next Save or be Screwed traps (that you conveniently placed there and forgot to warn the others about)/ Kill him and loot his corpse.
Becket360 02-24-08, 10:55 PM	Step 1: Let the Paladin die of a natural cause. (Or let the fighter kill him anyway.) Step 2: Never Rez anything that is LG again. Step 3: ??? Step 4: Loot Corpses. Seriously though, the problem is that the Paladin is holding the group back (by RPing and not upgrading equipment) and causing problems. This is something that needs to change. Let him die from some other cause and just leave the corpse for dead and gone. You don't want the responsibility of the crime on your hands either, bad karma. Or just do what every adventuring party does with snooty jackasses wearing Platemail with a d10 for HD: Let him activate the next Save or be Screwed traps (that you conveniently placed there and forgot to warn the others about)/ Kill him and loot his corpse. Hmm... Sounds like a good option.
Sinfire Titan 02-24-08, 11:28 PM	Hmm... Sounds like a good option. Killing them and looting the corpse: The Adventurer's answer to any given problem.
Clem-Da-Squig 02-24-08, 11:59 PM	Killing them and looting the corpse: The Adventurer's answer to any given problem. Dude, do you mind if I sig that?
Sinfire Titan 02-25-08, 12:19 AM	Dude, do you mind if I sig that? Be my guest.
pmurray@bigpond.com 02-25-08, 08:34 PM	Well, call me Mr Oblivious but I never notice this sort of stuff. I was in a group that disintegrated, and never really realised that Mr A and Mr B disliked one another IRL. As for these two, they each just need a testectomy to scale back the hormone poisoning. Me, being the one who is usually the in group problem solver, And there's your problem, right there. You ole hypocrite! ;) Bagging out the palading for "trying to make himself group leader", when you do the same thing!
Etarnon 02-25-08, 08:55 PM	It's their fight. Let them fight it out. It's the DM's problem. Seems to me like the paladin is a very emotional, demonstrative, passionate type, with drama as his first tool in any situation. It is what it is. Not all player groups are huggy bear kissy face happy dance. If they were, D&D would be boring. I'd advise your PC to do this: Fall in love with the paladin, and have his character champion yours, while you play the unrequited love. Thus you can step in, and advise the rogue not to kill him...while holding both at arm's length. Or some other soap opera drama like that. I think the two male characters are just trying to assert dominance. The paladin thinks it's his godly mission, the rogue just wants to form a guild or have followers, or just doesn't want to be led...assuming it is all in the RP and not out of game. Let them work it out. I think they both realize that they need a fistfight, backed up by a few beers, and a common enemy. Good luck with it.
Dragoncat 02-25-08, 09:50 PM	One way you can assist with this process is by chatting with your DM. Not about the fight itself, but a side issue. According to your narrative, I see the paladin getting a title, a romantic interest, a piece of land, a group to rule. These are Nice Things. Are your other players also getting Nice Things? Because if the paladin is getting too much of the spotlight, it might be going to his head. Encourage your DM to give your other players their own times to shine, their own prestige and status rewards, their own Nice Things. This will encourage inter-party satisfaction, and to be quite frank, demonstrate to the paladin that he isn't the beefolk's knees. As for your character? Well, if someone like a paladin, known for being honest and good, basically ignored his promise to you, I'd be miffed. Shun him! But don't take it too far. Rather than try to destroy his happy little world, instead build up your own with the other party members, creating equally interesting RP connections to the world in which the paladin is not the key element. The more material in the game that shines upon the other PCs, the better your situation for diminishing the paladin's grab for the spotlight. Oh, and the next time an explosive fight occurs, wait until each party is screaming at each other. Between breaths, walk into the center of the arguement, look him right in the eyes with the most baleful glare you can cast, and yell "And you didn't invite me to your wedding!" See how quickly that shuts things up.
Etarnon 02-25-08, 11:34 PM	Oh yeah, made me laugh out loud. that would stop my game right there. Spurned bridesmaids, out of control, .. on the next oprah.
kelvinaw273 02-26-08, 12:54 PM	It seems to me you don't have a Paladin problem, you have a Paladin Player problem. You need to talk to this guy about certain virtues his character is meant to hold dear, and about his behavior in general. Remind him that: 1) He isn't party leader. Period. No-one in the party owes him anything more than they owe anyone else. 2) Division of loot is decided on by the party. If he chooses not to spend his share on better gear, that's his problem. 3) He likes to role-play. Other people like to role-play. They all have the same right to role-play. Role-playing characters that don't get on all the time is fine until it gets OOC and starts slanging matches in the car park. 4) Some of the aspects a paladin is meant to uphold are Humility, Trustworthiness and Respect. Point out where he has not kept his promises, thinks he's better than anyone else and doesn't show them any respect. You also need to talk top your DM. The paladin has received much goodies lately that have not filtered down to the rest of the party. Reading between the lines it sounds like the confrontation-avoiding DM has been trying to 'buy off' the protesting player with them to keep him quiet. Clearly, it is having the opposite effect of rewarding bad behavior if this is the case. Ask the DM why the paladin being played like a jackass is getting rewarded while everyone else isn't, and basically what's going on? It really sounds to me like this player is headed for a boot out of the group if you don't want the group to founder.
themocaw 02-26-08, 02:59 PM	4) Some of the aspects a paladin is meant to uphold are Humility, Trustworthiness and Respect. Point out where he has not kept his promises, thinks he's better than anyone else and doesn't show them any respect. I once played a paladin who was so freaking full of himself the DM decided I needed a lesson in humility, and when I called my paladin mount, it had changed from a dashing warhorse to a mule. Actually, that mule was pretty badass. I would up keeping her even after I learned my lesson in humility. She bit off orc faces and such :)
Clem-Da-Squig 02-26-08, 03:04 PM	I once played a paladin who was so freaking full of himself the DM decided I needed a lesson in humility, and when I called my paladin mount, it had changed from a dashing warhorse to a mule. Actually, that mule was pretty badass. I would up keeping her even after I learned my lesson in humility. She bit off orc faces and such :) Name of said mule please?
Fidel_Blastro 02-26-08, 04:50 PM	Step 2: Never Rez anything that is LG again. Oh, the lessons every PC learns too late...:D Well Becket, this is my first post, so I hope I can help. Every party has its Steve... a Steve is a player who, in most cases, plays D&D mainly for the sake of faux-dominance. Steve`s only feel comfortable in a place of control and with the attention of the DM. When not in such position, Steves become uncooperative and difficult(ours literally SLEEPS until his turn.) In the worst case scenario, Steve is a paladin. A good way to solve this problem, as already suggested, is to talk to the other players, maybe not the fighter, although he (correct me if Im wrong) doesn`t seem to be as big of a problem, and find if they agree with your view. If they also see your point, then you should all address your DM at once and explain that this problem is beyond `party bickering` and is affecting the game entirely. If out of game crap-slinging ever occurs again, a good egokilla is the classic `dude,its just a game.` Attack of the Reality! Use with caution. Seriously though, out-of-game hate is totally unnessasary. Once a guy shot me because I didnt address his sister correctly, and we didnt take that out of the game at all. Thats like hating your best friend because his character in the last school play was your characters enemy. Silly,eh? In summary, your best route is DM addressal,(maybe even player addressal?)and just plain maturity. Hope your problem gets resovled!
Sinfire Titan 02-26-08, 05:16 PM	Oh, the lessons every PC learns too late...:D Well Becket, this is my first post, so I hope I can help. Every party has its Steve... a Steve is a player who, in most cases, plays D&D mainly for the sake of faux-dominance. Steve`s only feel comfortable in a place of control and with the attention of the DM. When not in such position, Steves become uncooperative and difficult(ours literally SLEEPS until his turn.) In the worst case scenario, Steve is a paladin. A good way to solve this problem, as already suggested, is to talk to the other players, maybe not the fighter, although he (correct me if Im wrong) doesn`t seem to be as big of a problem, and find if they agree with your view. If they also see your point, then you should all address your DM at once and explain that this problem is beyond `party bickering` and is affecting the game entirely. If out of game crap-slinging ever occurs again, a good egokilla is the classic `dude,its just a game.` Attack of the Reality! Use with caution. Seriously though, out-of-game hate is totally unnessasary. Once a guy shot me because I didnt address his sister correctly, and we didnt take that out of the game at all. Thats like hating your best friend because his character in the last school play was your characters enemy. Silly,eh? In summary, your best route is DM addressal,(maybe even player addressal?)and just plain maturity. Hope your problem gets resovled! My favorite solution to dealing with a Steve involves doing something perfectly legal IRL: Killing his Character when the time is just right. Example (Not one of mine, but perfect): The party is playing a White Wolf game (WWtF, for those who are curious) and they have a Steve in the group. The problem? Steve changes his character every other game. Literally. Well, the GM was getting sick and tired of coming up with reason why Steve's characters kept leaving the party, and didn't want to make up an excuse for this one. This GM also has a problem with simply killing off characters unless it is storyline related, so that had a problem too. Well, recently a major fight had occurred, and the party was in a depressed mood and was very very serious about the entire situation. Enter Steve's player. He had just finished making up a new character for the game, as he grew bored of his previous one. Well, the GM hadn't removed Steve's old character from play yet, so he was still with the group. Do note, this was late at night, and every time one of Steve's other characters left to make a name for themselves behind the scenes of the game, Steve would get an ego boost. Not this time around. The GM was fed up with coming up with stuff, and the following few minutes of the campaign were strenuously tense, so tense that a straw could snap any single player but Steve. The following text is as verbatim as I can remember from this tale of a Steve. The names of characters have been deleted, and storyline relevant info has been left out, for the sake of the players and the GM. GM: As _ and _ are arguing about _, *insert Steve's previous character's name here* head explodes into thousands of tiny pieces. A split second later, the sound of a high-powered sniper rifle shot rings into your ears, and you notice that the window has a bullet hole in it from said rifle. A knock is heard at the door just seconds after the shot is fired. When the door is opened, standing before you are two Chinese men in white suites. They bow profusely and say the following: "So sorry! We shoot your friend! Wrong house! So sorry!" They step to the side as a pair of Chinese paramedics come running by with a stretcher in hand, and *insert name of Steve's new character* following close behind. The two paramedics stop beside *Steve's old character* and set the stretcher down, load his headless corpse onto it, and cart him off to the mortuary. The Chinese men in white suites then hand you a thick wad of cash, bow again, and repeat: "So sorry, we shoot your friend!" They then promptly shut the door, and the sound of the ambulance's wheels screeching on the pavement can be heard. Through the window, you see the ambulance race off.[/GM] The party was stunned by this outcome, but not through the tragedy of the event. No, they were speechless because of how perfectly timed it was. Steve left that night with an ego no bigger than that of a termite's, and the players never saw him at that game for the remainder of the campaign. He still has yet to return to pick up his WW books.
themocaw 02-26-08, 05:21 PM	Name of said mule please? I don't recall. I think it was Daisy or something like that. Anyway, she was great. She was originally a farmer's cartmule, and then after we rescued him from orcs or something, she decided to come with me. I gave her a funny look, then my DM grinned at me and pointed out what level I was gonna get. I laughed.
deadkoo 02-26-08, 05:23 PM	Another good one for any arguement that gets out of hand is to simply remind them that: "Louder does not make you more right.." Sometimes ppl get heated when they fail to get their point accross. That or tell them(when they are really ticked off) that "Its allways better to be ****** off, than ****** on..." :P
Drackthor 02-26-08, 08:08 PM	That or tell them(when they are really ticked off) that "Its allways better to be ****** off, than ****** on..." :P I fail to see how that would, in any way, alleviate the situation, or even keep it from getting worse. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
kelvinaw273 02-27-08, 12:58 PM	Name of said mule please? Muffin?