Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tsushi 10-03-06, 03:08 PM	I'm going to be starting in a new campian next week. :D The DM told me, however, that I can't use the druid class due to wild shape. Although if I come up with an alternitive he might allow it. I know the UA has varients but I don't like the idea of a raging druid or the aspects. What are your ideas as to replacments for wildshape. Anything from feats to colorful Prc features is welcome (Please keep in mind that my character will not be able to change any part of his body to asume animal forms or abilities.) Thanks in advance.
allenchan 10-03-06, 03:20 PM	PHBII has a shapeshifting variant. Its less powerful (but then again, everything is in comparison). However, it benefits from less paperwork and simplicity, and it can be used at will instead of x/day
Nikeratos 10-03-06, 04:13 PM	First of all, you seriously need to reconsider whether you want to play with such a DM. Stripping the druid of wild shape is an outrage. Said this, possible options are: More spells per day. I suggest you squeeze every spell slot you can from your DM. Some combat feats; maybe a progression similar to that of the fighter's. Spell-like abilities related to animals, plants, weather, healing, or whatever suits your purpose. A much more powerful animal companion. Be creative. What about borrowing features from other classes? Perhaps a progression of favored enemies, or two spell domains, or more proficiencies, or all of them. I suggest all of them. Let me say this again: you should reconsider this. A DM that strips the druid of wild shape doesn't deserve his position.
Tsushi 10-03-06, 04:49 PM	Thanks for the quick replies. My DM does have purpose behind this, he doesn't want any wildshaping optimization going on and with this I can agree with him. If it doesn't exist then there is no temptation. (I like to test my mental exercises out on the "real world") :D That being said I do like the idea of an improved animal companian and the spell like abilities even more so. What spell like abilities would you suggest and at what level? I think the addition of the monks armour bonus and speed would be nice. But I'm not sure at what level they would get it at, and more importantly how would it fit background wise. If anyone else has any ideas please share.
Reversefigure4 10-03-06, 05:19 PM	I think the addition of the monks armour bonus and speed would be nice. But I'm not sure at what level they would get it at, and more importantly how would it fit background wise. That's kind of a punt in the nuts to any Monks in your group, and the Monk class in general. Keep in mind the druid class is awesomely powerful anyway. Three suggestions: 1) Keep Wild Shape, but reduce the duration to either 1 minute per level, or just 1 minute flat. Removes the problem of the Druid being able to wander around for hours as an ever-ready melee machine. Consider removing Natural Spell as a feat, or at least upping the pre-reqs. 2) Drop wild shape, dump the Druid's restrictions on metal and give them all simple weapon profs, along with light and medium armour prof to make them a bit more of a normal tank. 3) Drop wild shape, give the druid one or two nature themed domain(s) (Air, Fire, Earth, Water, Animal, Plant), just like the cleric's domains (counting druid levels as cleric levels for anything like turning). A druid able to turn water and rebuke fire creatures might fun.
Nikeratos 10-03-06, 06:28 PM	Thanks for the quick replies. What spell like abilities would you suggest and at what level? You may draw some inspiration from fey creatures. There's plenty of them in several handbooks; surely you can work with your DM to reach a reasonable agreement on a progression of abilities. Thanks for the quick replies. I think the addition of the monks armour bonus and speed would be nice. But I'm not sure at what level they would get it at, and more importantly how would it fit background wise. Since Wild Shape appears at 5th druid level, you may decide to follow the same monk progression, but having the monk's 1st-level abilities appear at your druid's 5th level, the monk's 2nd-level abilities at your 6th, and so on. This has the purpose of not destabilizing the character in comparison with a real monk.
Telhuine 10-03-06, 06:46 PM	Well, if you can't turn into them, perhaps your DM should give you the ability to converse with them at least (like you could while in their form anyway) at will. *shrug* I would also advocate for an increase in animal companion size (make the alternative companions for 4th-6th be availabe to you at 1st level), and an increase in spells per day. Perhaps the extra spells could correspond to the number of times you would have been able to wild shape. So, no immediate extra spells until 5th level, where you would get 1 extra spell a day. At 6th, you would get 2 extra per day, etc. Alternatively, perhaps he could give the spell-like ability to summon a creature of the types available to you at the various levels? Again, this would correspond to the number of wild shapes available to you at that particular level. Don't know if my ideas have any merit with you or not, but they sound like reasonable compromises to me!
Thanqol 10-03-06, 09:58 PM	Let me say this again: you should reconsider this. A DM that strips the druid of wild shape doesn't deserve his position. Actually, our group banded together and removed Wild Shape entirely from the game because we hated it so much. Does that mean we don't deserve to play D&D?
amethal 10-04-06, 08:16 AM	My DM does have purpose behind this, he doesn't want any wildshaping optimization going on and with this I can agree with him.Then the shapeshifting variant in Players Handbook 2 is exactly what you need. Keeps the flavour of the druid but is not subject to optimisation (and is a lot less work!)
kelvinaw273 10-04-06, 08:57 AM	I'm going to be starting in a new campian next week. :D The DM told me, however, that I can't use the druid class due to wild shape. Although if I come up with an alternitive he might allow it. I know the UA has varients but I don't like the idea of a raging druid or the aspects. What are your ideas as to replacments for wildshape. Anything from feats to colorful Prc features is welcome (Please keep in mind that my character will not be able to change any part of his body to asume animal forms or abilities.) Thanks in advance. Spirit Shaman, from Complete Divine - has the same feel as the Druid without the wildshape.
Nikeratos 10-04-06, 01:25 PM	Actually, our group banded together and removed Wild Shape entirely from the game because we hated it so much. Does that mean we don't deserve to play D&D? I apologize if my comment was taken as an offense. But I can't see the fairness of deleting the trademark ability of the druid. Removing Wild Shape would be like making a bard with no Bardic Music, a cleric with no Turn Undead, a barbarian with no Rage, or a rogue with no Sneak Attack. See the point?
starfire311 10-04-06, 02:22 PM	I apologize if my comment was taken as an offense. But I can't see the fairness of deleting the trademark ability of the druid. Removing Wild Shape would be like making a bard with no Bardic Music done... it is now optional for a bard to ahve bardic music in my games... came up with other alternatives. a cleric with no Turn Undead, done, not all clerics get turn undead, it is now diety specific, along with "domains" a barbarian with no Rage, or a rogue with no Sneak Attack. See the point? have not done either of these, I can see the rogue losing SA and the barb getting rage replaced by a similar ability, but still could be considored rage. I ahve been thinking about doing a wildshapeless druid for awhile... I think PHB2s variant did a great job of removing the wildshape problems.
Salla 10-04-06, 02:28 PM	First of all, you seriously need to reconsider whether you want to play with such a DM. Stripping the druid of wild shape is an outrage. You're right. We should just ban the druid. :)