Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eliza_Stormwhisper 07-15-05, 10:13 AM	I find I make much better characters when I write a background (brief, or just come up with a basic concept) before I roll stats, assign feats/skills, etc. I usually pick race and class too, but don't count on it. For example, I created a character who was a lieuteniant in an army. That was my basic concept. I had standard point buy (25) to build her. So I decided that being a soldier, she'd use swords most likely, and a one-handed sword because officers usually rode horses, and two-handers are not easy to use from horseback (not sure if they are at all). So I've already got a few things down here: she'll have ranks in Ride and Handle Animal, most definitely, and I assigned her proficiency and focus with a bastard sword. I decided to make her human as well. I then decided that her human bonus feat would be Toughness, as she's experienced in battle and tough, and therefore a good candidate for an officer. She'll have at least 8 skill points (2, -1 (if I leave Int at 8), +1 (for being human)). I decide I'll put at least a 10 in Intelligence, so I assign 4 ranks to Climb as well. I then decide on her ability scores... where the fun begins. I decide on: Strength 14 (skilled with a sword) Dexterity 12 (fairly quick and agile) Constitution 14 (tough and hardy) Intelligence 10 (average) Wisdom 10 (you can't be a moron to be an officer) Charisma 13 (decent people skills, being an officer) I then take the 150 gp I started with, and buy her a suit of scale, a heavy wooden shield, shortbow, 20 arrows, and a bastard sword, then move on to flesh her out in more detail. ;)
Winternova 07-15-05, 11:10 AM	Sage advice! I have my own, weirder, routine... After the initial flash of images in my mind, I try to put together a short paragraph that sums up the character. After that, I move onto more in-game thinking. Once I have the flesh, I justify it; or conversely, once I have a history I try to evolve from it. I have an odd habit of almost 'stockpiling' characters though... I've got a word document where I store my more well thought out characters. All of the writeups are organized pretty much the same way. I've got their name, followed by a description, possibly with a short history - something bigger than a concept but smaller than a bio. After that, the Personality and Role. Here's where I'll describe how I'll try to play the character, and what role they'll fit into within the group. Then my projected progression, just so I can remember what classes, skills, and feats would be needed to achieve my goal. Stats are next, but I don't use numbers. I assign them ranges. Say I have a character whose something of a soldier, but more like a combat technician/engineer role. He'll have average to above average scores in his physical stats, a result of his military training; a high intelligence, and probably a lower charisma to represent the fact that he never really graduated from the stuttering, stammering geek phase that dominated his adolescent years. After that, I detail what equipment I plan to make use of, or plan to mark as my character's signature gear. Here's where my plan to have a short range, ranged-spec ranger who plans to use his shortbow like a sawed-off shotgun would come into play. After that, I note any special considerations - things my character would fear, any contacts a character in his position would have, or an rules that I would plan to make use of. Also, 'insignificant' notes on fears, quirks, and anything else that wouldn't be properly detailed in the personality and role section Then I've got that text document that was floating around here for awhile, 101 questions for adventures. I answer five of 'em as in character as I can. Helps me have characters ready when I need 'em, and also try to stay in character better. Oh man, I feel like a geek... :help:
The_Fan 07-15-05, 11:47 AM	I agree. My favorite character right now is a CE warlock named Felix Vagnar. I've planned out not only his past, but also his present and his most likely future. I play him as alternately charming and psychotic, with a complete lack of concern for his fellows or the consequences of his actions. He's a textbook case of Antisocial Personality Disorder (sociopathy). The reason for this is his father, who pulled a fast one on Asmodeus. He sold his soul for power, but managed to swap his own soul at the sacrifice for his son's. Felix should have died, but for some reason did not, and grew up into a debauched and hedonistic warlock with an appetite for ever more arcane power in an attempt to fill the void within him. He's come to recognize that he will never achieve happiness unless he finds his soul, which he can only do by buying it back with his father's soul. Asmodeus is well aware of the trick, and has been keeping his soul under special care, completely pure and innocent for the time when Felix succeeds. He figures that when Felix feels the increadible weight of guilt for his deeds that a pure and innocent soul will bring to him, he will do anything for Asmodeus to take it back.
striderII 07-15-05, 01:53 PM	This is precisely the way I make the majority of my characters. Although, I'll admit, occasionally I get into the "hey, that looks really cool - I'd like to play that" and I work a background out for it. For the record, the "really cool" part is almost universally the "feel" of the class or race, not what nifty powers it gets. strider ps. Eliza, you freakin' rock. :)
Pryrates 07-15-05, 02:30 PM	I usually decide on a race and often a class first then after that i begin thinking of how they got to the point they are at the start of the game. For My current character I decided to play a human hexblade. before long he had a long back round and i used that backround to help decide which skills/feats he should have and how he should act and behave, complete with views and opinions on a few topics.
Light of Day 07-15-05, 05:34 PM	I agree that coming up with a background first makes for more believable characters. I try to keep my process of character creation somewhat flexible, but it usually goes something like this: -Work out a background. -Identify ability scores/feats/skills/class abilities important to the concept. -Choose class(es). -Choose feats. -Choose skills. -Choose race and adjust classes/skills/feats appropriatly. -Go back and check race/class/skills/feats tie in with background. -Determine alignment (Normally I know the character well enough by this point that their personality is already decided, so it's a case of finding the alignment that fits the character and not the other way). -Choose gender (Call me weird, but I try to determine if a character "feels" more male or female rather than deciding arbitrarily). -Choose name.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 07-15-05, 05:45 PM	I agree with your strategy, one thing that does get in the way I find is the combat mindedness of a) the other players of b) the 3.5 rules. Other than that, your ideas are exemplary.
Thoronmir 07-15-05, 06:09 PM	When I’m starting a new campaign for my regular group, this is required. Players must submit Character Concepts for my review before they start selecting classes and feats. In addition to providing brief descriptions of their Concepts (such as “officer in the military”), the players must answer my three roleplaying questions: 1. What would motivate the PC to adventure? 2. What would motivate the PC to take a life? 3. What would motivate the PC to save a life? A player must be able to answer these questions at the start of the campaign. Of course, the answers may change during the course of the campaign. We don’t enjoy characters that never evolve. One purpose of requiring Character Concepts is to help the players think of their PCs as something other collections of skills and stats. The sooner a player “humanizes” (or “dwarfizes”?) a character, the better. Another purpose is to look for overlapping Concepts. I’ve actually had two players submit almost identical Concepts for PCs. I have no problem if all five players want to play Gnome Bards, but each Gnome Bard should have a distinct and personalized Concept. A little diversity just makes the game more entertaining. And, if the players really want to play identical Concepts, they are, of course, free to do so. I just want to avoid two or more players showing up for the ball wearing the same dress. Submitting the Concepts also allows me to tailor the campaign to the PCs. Knowing in advance that one of the PCs will be in the army lets me incorporate that background into the campaign. I don’t customize adventures to fit the PCs’ skills, but I like to make sure that the plot hooks are designed to appeal to the PCs’ motivations. So, yes, I agree … writing the background first is a very good idea.
Ourph the Mingol 07-15-05, 06:16 PM	I actively encourage my players NOT to create backgrounds for their characters. I prefer for the background narrative to come out as the campaign progresses - if at all. In fact, most of the time I don't even care if the players name their characters until they reach 3rd level or so. At that point, the player usually has some idea what the character is all about and actually cares about them to some extent (and they're a lot less likely to die right off the bat) so naming and characterizing means a little bit more. Coming up with a background before generating a character just means the player has to miss an hour of game time when his character dies instead of half an hour. IMO - that's not as fun.
UltimateReality 07-15-05, 11:11 PM	Then I've got that text document that was floating around here for awhile, 101 questions for adventures. I answer five of 'em as in character as I can. I'd like to try your method. Can you send me the text file? (PM me if my email isn't public...) FWIW, my method has generally been: 1. "OOOH! Shiny picture of PrC!" 2. "Now, how do I make this idea not suck?" :P 3. "What kind of person would this character be?" 4. Names. Names either come first, right away, or more lately, last. Names are important, and often hard for me. 5. Spend a couple of days thinking about character's personality. Collect random tidbits from the world around me to use as ideas for background or character's style. Try to really get inside the character's head. 6. Make character and figure out progression, either beforehand without stats, or at session with stats. 7. Write backstory, personality, and figure out character goals. 8. Find character portrait!!!! (I really suck at art, and getting the correct picture is important to me.) 9. Hand the whole mess into my DM. :)
striderII 07-15-05, 11:15 PM	I actively encourage my players NOT to create backgrounds for their characters. I prefer for the background narrative to come out as the campaign progresses - if at all. In fact, most of the time I don't even care if the players name their characters until they reach 3rd level or so. At that point, the player usually has some idea what the character is all about and actually cares about them to some extent (and they're a lot less likely to die right off the bat) so naming and characterizing means a little bit more. Coming up with a background before generating a character just means the player has to miss an hour of game time when his character dies instead of half an hour. IMO - that's not as fun. Some honest questions (I'm not trying to be an ass, really): 1. You don't care if the players name their characters, seriously? 2. What do you call them IC before they have names? 3. What degree of roleplaying do you have at your table? I'd really like to hear answers to these. Thanks. strider
Kalanth 07-16-05, 01:00 AM	Generally I like to find a class to play first, the ideas for background will come pouring out soon enough. For example, the character I play now stemed from the idea of playing a barbarian who was educated. I plotted and planned, figured a Barbarian / Wizard would make an interesting combination, and gave the character an interest in history and nature. This was a novel idea, but something did not feel right, so Wizard went out the door and was switched to Psion (Shaper), something new that I had not played and would give him an air of originality being a race that is not normally capable of such talents. Then I researched the commonly barbaric races, and was not pleased. I did not want to be the traditional Half-Orc or Human smashing skulls, and a Halfling was not something I desired either. So out went Barbarian, replaced with Ranger, still tying the character to the interest in Nature. When stats came around I changed things further, after recieving (4d6 drop lowest): Str - 9, Dex - 16, Con - 12, Wis - 15, Int - 18, Cha - 16 I decided some more changes were needed to the character. His strong charisma made me decide to place him in a position of power, or potential power, and so I linked him to the Medani house hold, making him officially a Half-Elf character in the world of Eberron. With the intelligence I was still able to stick with his interest in knowledge, but I expanded, and made him a student at the university studying to become a professor, and his range of Knowledge skills increase from two up to eight. With his wisdom, and again charisma, I made him a bit of the apprehensive hero. Wise enough to know that doing that action will hurt, charismatic enough to convince the brazen and wild adventurers not to do that either. His dex made Ranger a good fit, in my eyes, but he was now a city boy so I made it an Urban Ranger for the sake of the campaign, and focused those levels on an interest in crime scene investigation, and finally, the Constitution and Strength I took as a result of all the time he spent burried into books and not playing outside, so to speak. Then came the background, immense and in depth, stretching as far back as I could come up with ideas. My father is shamed of my weak frame and lack of desire to adventure, while the community loves me and has made me the voice of the Business class because of my savy powers of speach. So many details went into the background alone that the history of the character is 10 pages. I love delving into a character and making them interesting, and when the other players enjoy what you created as much as you, that is a huge bonus to me.
Antioch 07-16-05, 01:34 AM	What generally sparks a new PC is completely random. Often I find it difficult to come up with a PC on the spot, but given time or a simple race and class combo that I pluck from Limbo, I usually find it worthwhile to generate a history for the PC...depending on the DM, that is. Many games I played in the best originated from one person stating aloud that they had a really good idea for an adventure, following by demands that we make characters to fulfill their fantasy desires to whatever ends. Since these scenarios had a tendecy to disolve after one game (sometimes two!), I rarely if ever put any thought into a PC seeing as the investment often was not worth the end result. Many times I would simply regurgitate an aging concept from an archaic archive in my mind where I stored such templates for ready access. My advice, talk with your DM before you began scribing an epic background that skalds fall short of expressing. I'd only really recently go into the practice in my current campaign where the game we were told would be co-DMed, and that they would require of us three character concepts each. From the three that each of the players (8 in total) provided, only one was selected for the finals. After that we would be required to write up as in-depth story about their origins, friends, family, past, etc as we were capable of. The idea is that they would revolve the gameworld to a large degree around the details we provided (cities, terrain, etc). The end results were a 10pt font word file that spanned 2 pages (1,317 words, 18 paragraphs). Her history provided me with a direction with which I would use to orientate her skills (namely Decipher Script and Survival), as well as feat selection (skill focus in Decipher Script). Later when I gained access to magic, it also shaped her spellbook in ways I tended to avoid due to the high combat games I played in. Backgrounds, in conjunction with logical choices in equipment, style, skills, feats, and more can make for a very, VERY worthwhile and realistic character. I'd never really thought about taking Skill Focus lest I was a bard, rogue, or character that I wanted to be particularly adept at a skill. Usually, I would take Spell Focus or Improved Initiative or somesuch. This new direction made sense, and added additonal dimension to my character sheet. However, depending on who is running the game these efforts could prove fruitless.
Siduakal 07-16-05, 01:44 AM	I'm total opposite I actually pick what I wanna play, then work backwards to the concept. I've had very few "Concept first" characters..
Vacerious 07-16-05, 01:53 AM	hey guys, when you all write your character's backgrounds, how long do they wind up being? for the campaign i'm going to be dm'ing, i want the players to write a short background, and i want to know what would be appropriate (i.e. minimum length and max. length)? ------edit---- btw, it's always good to know that there are players out there who actually enjoy the rp aspect of dnd. keep up the good work guys. :ayyyy!:
weasel fierce 07-16-05, 01:55 AM	I usually ask people a bit about what they have in mind. Depending on what we play, we'll either fit what they roll, to the idea they had, or work out a new idea afterwards. A lot of it comes during play, but I make sure everyone has at least a rudimentary background story
UltimateReality 07-16-05, 02:33 AM	hey guys, when you all write your character's backgrounds, how long do they wind up being? Usually about a page, typed, single space. I've had some that went on 8, complete with character portrait and title page, and others that were merely half a dozen jot notes I had to force into a badly regurgitated paragraph. I find that a page is usually more than enough to state the basics of a character's history, seed plot hooks and NPCs for the DM, and note the basics of the PC's personality and goals.
Antioch 07-16-05, 03:34 AM	Mine average about two pages. I often draw my character as well to help out visualizing him/her. Sometimes I include plot hooks as well if the DM is working on a new campaign or as adventure seeds.
Cymraegmorgan 07-16-05, 04:23 AM	I'm total opposite I actually pick what I wanna play, then work backwards to the concept. I've had very few "Concept first" characters.. When I play, rather than DM, this is what I do, also. In fact, this is what my group usually does together. They decide on class/race combos first, then work out a backstory.
Antioch 07-16-05, 04:32 AM	A group collaberation method usually ends up with my and a certain member playing brothers of some kind, or at least cousins. Its kind of cool, but he gets me into trouble a lot. :(
Kalanth 07-16-05, 10:16 AM	hey guys, when you all write your character's backgrounds, how long do they wind up being? for the campaign i'm going to be dm'ing, i want the players to write a short background, and i want to know what would be appropriate (i.e. minimum length and max. length)? A good length is what you feel comfortable with. I usually do essays that range from 2 - 10 pages, but that certainly does not need to be the standard for everyone. 10 pages might be to long for you, and you can say the same info in only 1 1/2 pages, thats fine too.
SilverFoxKnows 07-16-05, 11:45 AM	Kovax was never a mean spirited boy. Undisciplined. Unruly. Wild. But not mean. When He was fifteen I sent him to live with his grandfather on the outskirts of our lands. If I couldn’t teach him discipline maybe his grandfather would at least be able to teach him to control his rage. If all he learns is to focus it at more appropriate times I would consider that a small victory. Only time will tell at this point. – lomax redrock He was just a boy when my son sent him to me. Dirty. Hair all over the place. Full of p*ss and vinegar. I liked him right away. I had to thump him a couple of times before he’d listen to me but he was a bright kid. Not stupid, just wild at heart. And once he realized the rules out here were simple he settled down quite a bit. – Kendrik Redrock i didn’t visit him for a while. My father sent word but the letters were always the same. “We’re doing fine. Don’t trouble yourself. Talk to you soon”. Soon, I learned, meant once every ten years. – lomax redrock Once I got it through my son’s thick head to stay away I could get down to teaching the kid the survival skills he was going to need to make it out here. How to get juice from a cactus, which snakes you can eat, how to use an axe, how to make shelter from the sun. And I couldn’t do that with the kid’s dad leaning over him. – Kendrik Redrock ........................................ ......................... Why’d we pick Gluut to be our representative? Well, it’s not because he’s the strongest or the fastest, that’s for sure. Oh, he’s not puny; he’s at least as strong as the average farm hand. But next to his kin he looks a little small. Tireless, though, I don’t worry about him running out of steam. And he’s not the sharpest tool in the shed. He has a hard time remembering names and numbers and stuff like that. But he’s observant, sharp eyes, good ears. And while he won’t win any riddle contests he’s got common sense and that goes a long way. He’s got plenty of determination; I think enough to see this thing through. But I guess the real reason we sent him instead of his brothers or his cousins is he has a way with people. He’s not a hulking brute. He smiles when he says “Hello”. Quick to laugh, quick to buy you a drink. Hopefully people will see that we’re not all a bunch of witless berserkers. Chauntea knows, we could use the help. .............................. Good thread, thanks guys.
snowlynx 07-16-05, 05:28 PM	for the campaign i'm going to be dm'ing, i want the players to write a short background, and i want to know what would be appropriate (i.e. minimum length and max. length)? Length is not an issue for me as DM. What I want to know, for a low-level character, is the following: Who are they? Where are they from; how did they grow up? Who are their family/friends? How did they get their skills? Why are they adventuring? Do you have any future plans for this character I need to know about now? If the players answer those questions, presumably the background will be between a pargagraph and ten pages. My own background tend to range between two paragraphs and three pages. For a higher level character, it's important to ask what they've done over the course of their adventuring, and where they think they're going. The above questions still apply, of course, it's just that the character should be a little more developed.
Antioch 07-16-05, 05:45 PM	btw, it's always good to know that there are players out there who actually enjoy the rp aspect of dnd. keep up the good work guys. :ayyyy!: Despite having n00b players, the last few sessions were quite enjoyable to everyone in regards to the absence of combat encounters. We are currently halfway through a 150 day long trek across the country. We got ambushed by a small bugbear band (5 of them), but other than that nothing of real note. Most of the game is us talking to eachother at night, learning more about one another. Since the DM is compressing time as it were, me blew through about 3 months of game time and celebrated a PC's birthday as well as an elven week-long holiday. Problem is my player job is journal entry so I have to write all that up to record everything.
Antioch 07-16-05, 05:53 PM	Length is not an issue for me as DM. What I want to know, for a low-level character, is the following: Who are they? Where are they from; how did they grow up? Who are their family/friends? How did they get their skills? Why are they adventuring? Do you have any future plans for this character I need to know about now? In addition to the above (aside from future plans), we also had to fill in the following on a completely separate "supplemental sheet"; Birthday Description Objectives Traits/Mannerisms Likes Dislikes Hopes/Dreams Worst nightmare All in all, it wasnt a bad thing. I feel it added a lot of dimension to the character.
snowlynx 07-16-05, 06:00 PM	yeah...as I DM, I prefer to have as much info on the characters as possible (like that list you added) but I've never made it a requirement. The 'future plans' is there in case the character is aiming to eventually become something- whether that be part of a particular guild, a prestige class, a king, etc.- so that I know what to keep in mind. I had at last one player just tell me, last session, that they were trying to 'slowly redeem themself' (after threee or four sessions, when they had begun wanting to play an evil character. I really should have asked this from the start, but it slipped my mind. As a player, I always start with concept, in part because I know very well many classes might fit a particular concept I had in mind, and in part because if I pick class first, I get confused as to what I'm doing and I get frustrated trying to play the character. (Race usually is part of concept, merely because it determines a lot of things like society, lifespan, etc. which have a huge impact on childhood.) I guess, though, that the concept is sometimes a 'profession', sometimes a 'what if (situation)?', is sometimes based on a quote, and so on, so I often approach developing the character in different ways.
Siduakal 07-16-05, 07:52 PM	My favorite character I had for 'deep" personality was one who had a repeating nightmare of the day his girlfriend (And partner in battle prior to becoming a PC.. was his background) died. Except rather than not KNOWING she was dying, he had an invisible wall between them.. He had the nightmare nearly every night. Other PCs often woke to hear him scream in the night. But in the day he wouldn't talk. He wore two Arcane Signet Rings (His and hers) which provoked questions, and he wouldn't answer them for a long while. That kinda stuff, he'd hardened and wasn't open to friendship because he didn't feel like experiencing it again.
Eliza_Stormwhisper 07-16-05, 08:53 PM	I don't always pick a class first, but sometimes I do. I'll decide beforehand that I want to play a front line fighter, for example, and then based on the background, decide whether I'd be better off as a fighter, ranger, paladin, or barbarian, for example.
Winternova 07-16-05, 10:11 PM	When I requested a bio from my players, I wanted it to be just one page, pretty standard font and size, and single spaced. The concepts i want from my players should be just a brief description, like 'a pacifist minotaur wracked with nightmares of his past injustices desperately trying to make amends with the world.' Though that's never come up in my games, that's roughly the length I'm looking for. The whole Biography assignment thing went pretty poorly though - despite there being the possibility of gaining oodles of XP (almost two levels for some of 'em), one of my players refused to cooperate simply because I wanted it written in a normal font, single spaced, and I wanted it within a month. He said it sounded fun until 'I put too many restrictions on it.' Needless to say, He missed out on tons of XP. When I lay down a bio, I aim for the same page or so of fictional goodness. Unless I get out of control... Which happens...
Antioch 07-17-05, 02:58 AM	yeah...as I DM, I prefer to have as much info on the characters as possible...<snip> Ah, no offense was meant by what I said. I'm actually pleased to see that there are other DMs who try to glean as much information as they can in order to placate their players. As a player, I always start with concept, in part because I know very well many classes might fit a particular concept I had in mind, and in part because if I pick class first, I get confused as to what I'm doing and I get frustrated trying to play the character. (Race usually is part of concept, merely because it determines a lot of things like society, lifespan, etc. which have a huge impact on childhood.) I guess, though, that the concept is sometimes a 'profession', sometimes a 'what if (situation)?', is sometimes based on a quote, and so on, so I often approach developing the character in different ways. It depends for me. Sometimes I think of an interesting idea or an unlikely combination and start generating additional ideas and backgrounds from those. I've been known to go through various draft processes before finalizing my character.
BeyondFated 07-17-05, 11:03 AM	I usually start with a cool character concept, like: "Ooooh...a duel trident wielding fighter would be really cool!" and then I roll for stats, choosae feats, ect. When I'm done, I start to write his background. I, personally, find its far easier to write a story around a character, than make a character around a story. I'm the best rp'er of my group, and thats the way I've always made my characters. And, I'm the resident power-gamer of the group, so I tend to do great both in and out of combat... :D
Timlagor 07-17-05, 02:43 PM	I can tell you're the most modest in your group too ;) I'd suggest about 150 words as a minimum for background if you're trying to get your players to get a bit more involved with their characters. DOn't ask for more initially but don't restrict them -it's really not going to be that much of a chore to read. I usually start with a concept but it may also be triggered by seing a nice class feature.
Light of Day 07-17-05, 04:06 PM	In addition to the above (aside from future plans), we also had to fill in the following on a completely separate "supplemental sheet"; Birthday Description Objectives Traits/Mannerisms Likes Dislikes Hopes/Dreams Worst nightmare All in all, it wasnt a bad thing. I feel it added a lot of dimension to the character. Nice idea. I may just have to start doing something like that with my group.
tec-9-7 07-17-05, 04:11 PM	I find I make much better characters when I write a background (brief, or just come up with a basic concept) before I roll stats, assign feats/skills, etc. I work completely backwards of this now. I always roll stats first. Once I see what class suggests itself, then I pick a race and come up with a background. I tend now to prefer to work more from a blank slate than a preconceived notion.
Dick Dastardly 07-17-05, 07:09 PM	when i create a character i tend to think of a race and class i want to play, then comes the concept, shortly followed by a name usually. then i role the stats and health, then i tend to move onto thinking about his progression, and try to plan the characters skills, feats and equiptment on this progression concept which will link closely to the character concept. it seems to work for me thus far, currently im fleshing out the story of a lumberjack, tain oakhunn, that has taken up his axes and is out after adventure and after realising he has accomplished litte over his life thus far and wants stories he can tell around the fireside in the local inn, and to hold gaze with a dragon.
Antioch 07-17-05, 10:44 PM	Nice idea. I may just have to start doing something like that with my group. I would strongly recommend it, as it adds a lot to a character. As an added responsibility you can keep the sheet and update it as necessary. Ours also includes sections on each government and miscellaneous information that our individual characters know.