| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| Scan04-12-08, 06:54 AM | I am currently playing in a game that has been running every Saturday since October. The Dms (it is Co-Dmed) are pretty upset at a game state that has recently come into being as a result of a decision that was made primarily by myself. Was I being a jerk? Here is the story: The continent that our characters are on is under seige by a neigh-unstoppable invading army of evil dwarves. Our characters are only level 5 (gestalt) so, although the DMs have awarded us with some houseruled special magic powers (I think in part to compensate for the slow leveling), we cannot take a hands-on approach and fight on the front lines with any hope of making a large-scale impact. So we have instead been running around enlisting the aid of key groups/individuals for the war effort. An NPC acquantance suggested that we enlist the aid of a particular group of individuals who are speciaized in supressing magic to help against the powerful dwarven shadowcasters. The catch-22 here is the group also happens to be very zealously against magic, and would kill us on site as we are all magic-users ourselves (being gestalt and with the houseruled abilities). So the same NPC tells us of a friend of a friend of his who also has an anti-magic ability and, though he won't help in the war effort, can temporarily supress our magics so we can safely aproach the first group. We get to him and learn that his ability will supress our magic for an entire year and is irreversable until the duration expires. I flat-out refuse to do it, suggesting instead that we look for alternative approaches. That is the decision in question. The one DM (the other was not around at the time) became extremely agitated at my decision and began going on that the shadowcasters will be unstoppable now and everything will come to ruin. He then shoots down my half-dozen or so alternate suggestions to render it apparent that I had passed on the only hope we had. Later a player who had not shown up to the session in time for the preceding event did show up and decided to undergo the procedure alone. So now we have a split party and fuming mad DMs. They keep making comments like "we should just kill them off for not following the plot", "why couldn't you just DO the procedure?" and "we should give [the late player] 100k gp for following the story". The last they apparently did try but, as I understand it, he failed some search check and did not come up with the loot. Looking back on it I used to feel like I made a reasonable decision at the time, given the information at hand. I didn't think it would be fun playing a character who had been stripped of all the magic (spells and the houseruled abilities) he had earned, and would be for a long time to come, as simply passing a year was not a viable option with the invading army still, well... invading. But following the continued reactions of the DMs and the way the story has progressed since, I am not so sure anymore. The bottom line is I just want to have fun and keep the game fun for all involved. Was I being a greedy jerk? Should I have sucked it up and lost my magic for the sake of the story? Please lend me your opinions on this matter so I can sort it all out in my head. Your feedback will be greatly appreciated! :) |
| Cowczar04-12-08, 07:06 AM | You made a perfectly viable decision, but tell your railroading DMs that. That is some major railroading happening there. It's like Grand Central Station. Miles of railroad tracks. Anyway, you have the problem of railroading against you, which is the main enemy of the lowly PC. |
| key04-12-08, 08:10 AM | http://www.adena.com/adena/mo/chride.jpg |
| Cuindless04-12-08, 08:20 AM | From your perspective, I agree with Key (...) and Cowczar. To steal a line from Mr. WolvesDen, why don't you invite your DMs here so we can talk to them about it? |
| kelvinaw27304-12-08, 08:32 AM | Your DMs have encountered one of the Golden Cows of DMing: When you present a group of players with options (1) or (2) they will inevitably choose option (3) that you hadn't thought of and didn't expect. The DM's wanted to strip you of magic powers for a year as a 'plot device' ... the rest was just window dressing. Now you've thrown a spanner in the works, and they are not happy. In Their defense: The game is challenging enough for them to challenge you, and they need a way to make life easier for themselves. They have invested time and energy in the plot and have a clear desire to advance it. In your defense: No player likes having his primary abilities nerfed, period. They cannot expect you to follow the plot they have laid out 'just because' - there have to be reasons. Anyway, there will be other casters among the allies these intollorant anti-magic people will be working with, so they'll either (a) turn on their allies or (b) things will get unrealistic. There are holes in this plot you could drive a double-decker bus through - that isn't YOUR fault. Are you being a jerk? No. If they have come to a problem they couldn't foresee, that isn't your fault. |
| Ecalsneerg04-12-08, 08:32 AM | So now we have a split party and fuming mad DMs. They keep making comments like "we should just kill them off for not following the plot", "why couldn't you just DO the procedure?" and "we should give [the late player] 100k gp for following the story". The last they apparently did try but, as I understand it, he failed some search check and did not come up with the loot.) I think they should ditch the group and go write their little story themselves. |
| Airos04-12-08, 08:57 AM | So, let me see if I got all this... You're playing gestalt. Most, if not all, of the party has levels in spellcasting classes. The DMs are cool with the "dual" classing. The DMs admit to being a little stingy with the XP, so they give you "magic" powers. Then the "only" option to continue with the story is to take away 1/2 your class levels and the bonus powers they gave you in the first place? For an entire game year?!? If you can get your "DMs" in here to tell their side of the story, I'll hold off on my judgment of them. Otherwise, my first instinct is to throat punch one of them. If your side of the story is at least 80% correct, then there's some serious power trip issues going on in that game. Power trip issues of a Gygaxian scale. I mean, openly offering a 100k GP reward for "following the story" to the guy that showed up late, then not following through? Threatening your PCs with death for not doing what they wanted you to do? They asked you "why couldn't you just DO the procedure?". Ask them "Why can't you just DO a story where we have free will over our PCs?". Then feel free to act like a jerk as stated in my sig, (throat punching optional). |
| Rictras_Shard04-12-08, 09:27 AM | The fact that a group of fifth level gestalt characters with special magical powers is too weak to fight on the front line of an army is to me a strong indication that there is something wrong with the power level of the campaign. What kind of troops are on the front line of that army? Giants? Based on what you are telling us, my advice would be to leave that campaign, and find some new dms. |
| The_Black_Hand04-12-08, 09:58 AM | The Dm(s) in question are the ones being the a$$hats. Tell them that you don't want to be railroaded. |
| Windspear04-12-08, 10:52 AM | No, you are not a jerk. THEY are. Tell them that. Then, one of 2 things will happen: They will either 1) understand their mistake and correct it, or 2) they will not understand their mistake, and in that case just leave the group. |
| Callista04-12-08, 11:19 AM | The OP didn't say the PCs were too weak to fight on the front lines, but that if they did, they weren't strong enough to make a big difference. So they can survive, but they won't kill huge enough numbers of the enemy to turn the tide. |
| Rictras_Shard04-12-08, 11:45 AM | Yes, I know. It still leaves me wondering what kind of power do these armies have that characters like that won't make a significant difference. |
| kelvinaw27304-12-08, 11:58 AM | Well less than a dozen elite can't make a big enough difference to be a war-winner unless you are fighting with really small armies, although they can certainly helped if deployed behind enemy lines wreaking havoc on their supply lines, support, tying up reserves and taking out key commanders. On the other hand, bringing an entire extra couple of armies to the battlefield can have a very big impact indeed! |
| Krusk04-12-08, 01:05 PM | From reading your side it seems like they had a goal they wanted you to reach, and were upset when your character did not act according to their plan, but instead did the logical thing. Consider showing up at the next session with nothing but a spiral notebook and pen. Give these to the DM, and have them fill out exactly what happens during the session before you guys start. Now you can play smash bros while you wait for this. When they are done you will have a script to read. This gaurentees you will not make character choices they do not like. |
| Mock2604-12-08, 01:38 PM | Just switch to APPLEs or BANANAs and you'll be fine. :D |
| Necroramo04-12-08, 02:34 PM | Seriously, get your DMs on this thread so that we can talk to them :) And to elaborate on Krusk's idea, just don't come back from Smash Bros. The DM can read your part whenever it's your turn, and you get to play SSBB. Now, both PC and DM are having fun, and neither of them were before. |
| Cuindless04-12-08, 04:53 PM | If your side of the story is at least 80% correct, then there's some serious power trip issues going on in that game. Power trip issues of a Gygaxian scale. Did you ever game with Mr. Gygax? |
| MrCustomer04-12-08, 05:29 PM | Yes and No. Ok the DMs are railroading. It isn't so bad that they are forcing a certain course of action on your characters but that they are threatening the characters "we should kill them all" etc for not following along with their plot. It is indeed absolutely needed, in their plot, that you choose their option in order to inlist the help of the anti-magic people, and critical to the war. Considering what is at stake, the temperary loss of magical abilities in rather insignificant and will likely be more then amply awarded. I dislike DMs railroading the players, but sometimes a particular plot device simply cannot be circumnavigated, The DMs have a particular reason why they need everyone to be un-magicfied. The players should be able to understand when they need to cooperate or compromise to further the plot as well. Your best option is to talk to the DMs in question, tell them it's not the temperary loss of your abilities that worry you, but the one year duration, which could be a significantly long time in terms of play time. It could take over a year or two of playing to get past 1 year game time, alternatively that could be covered in a short time if the DMs are planning a "9 months later...." after this conflict is dealt with. Perhaps the Dms could agree with a shorter duration to the loss of magic abilities that is more acceptable. failing that, it sounds like the DMs are being somewhat jerks themselves, threatening PCs with being killed by the DM's powers and in game bribery are poor methods of railroading. A better approach would be either compramizing with a more acceptable option in combination with illiminating the "other" options, generally by allowing them to be attempted but having them ultimately fail. But behaving like children and killing off PCs for not making their desired choice and bribing those who kiss their ass, is just unaceptable and you should make that clear to the DMs. |
| Mock2604-12-08, 07:35 PM | Did you ever game with Mr. Gygax? Even though this wasn't directed at me (and was directed towards someone who appears to know absolutely NOTHING about Gygax or 1st edition D&D) I can honestly say, "Yes, I have gamed with Mr. Gygax." |
| Hellsbells04-12-08, 07:45 PM | I'd just like to point out this sint a PEACH. PEACH stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly. |
| r3gulark04-12-08, 07:55 PM | No, you weren't a jerk. Your DMs were though. DMs are not supposed to get involved with the PCs decisions by directly influencing them. If they really wanted to get rid of your powers, why did they ask you if you wanted to get rid of them? The guy with the anti-magic powers should have attacked you in the first place to remove your powers because he hates magic that much! So, seriously, tell your DMs they were railroading and that they can deal with you not wanting your powers taken away. If they want them gone so badly, then create a monster to do so (which is still pretty bad but IMHO its not as bad as directly saying "You have to lose your powers") |
| WilliamTanner04-12-08, 08:12 PM | That's retarded. If any DM made a threat to my character for 'not following the plot', I'd be packing my stuff and departing, never to play with them again. But it wouldn't be the last time they heard from me. I'd let others who might accidentally game with them be forewarned. That's not being a good DM. That's not being a good person. |
| Rosisha04-12-08, 08:30 PM | Just listening to your story I want to comment: if that is all they could come up with.. they are poor, or desperate, DMs. I could think of at least ten different ways to get the anti-magic group involved without railroading the players. Just taking their decisions and running with them. I provide tools, the players decide which way they want to go. Hell, I wouldn't even make the war solely dependent on this group, I'd just let the players know about it and see where they went. You weren't being a jerk (well depending on how you said No!). Please invite your DMs on here. I'd like a chance to discuss this campaign! I think I could offer a few solutions to well if they are feeling overwhelmed. And seriously, lets all take a step back to our own DMing: how many of us have felt completely and totally screwed at one point or another and were ready to scream? Rosisha |
| Airos04-12-08, 08:49 PM | Did you ever game with Mr. Gygax? Personally, no, I have not. I have played in games with people that were on large scale power trips, however. Even though this wasn't directed at me (and was directed towards someone who appears to know absolutely NOTHING about Gygax or 1st edition D&D) I can honestly say, "Yes, I have gamed with Mr. Gygax." You're half right; I don't know that much about Gygax. However, I have been playing since basic edition, and have "upgraded" through each edition, (basic in '92, 1st edition in '93-'94, 2nd edition '95-'99). Without getting in to a side rant here, which I would like to avoid, the earlier editions tended to, well, mess with the party. Insta-Death traps you had no way of knowing about. Monsters that looked like the floor, walls, ceiling and treasure chests, a cute little bunny on a tree stump if you were outdoors, a rock formation or a stalagmite if you were in a cave. Cursed magic items that would change your gender, change your alignment, or cause arrows to hit you. While Gygax himself may not have been "out to kill the party", or to "force them to do what he wanted", as I said I never gamed with him personally, he did develop the tools for asshat DMs who do want to do those things. 1st edition was written and designed, (not entirely, granted), by E. Gary Gygax. 2nd edition took steps away from this mentality, and 3rd moved even further away. The "Gygaxian" era of gaming was tough. While nothing can ever remove these kinds of DMs from the game, at least there aren't as many tools for them to work with when these DMs pop up. No longer are the days of "it's what I rolled on the random table, it's not my fault you were killed by the monster you couldn't see while wielding a sword that doesn't hit". They either have to be very creative to screw/railroad the party, or just outright admit it, (as in the case of the OP's DMs). Maybe I sent out the wrong impression when I said "Gygaxian". I can't say anything about who he was as a person or as a DM, but I do know the game he designed and the DMs who "ruled" during his era in the business. |
| CrimsonDeath04-12-08, 09:03 PM | How would these antimagic guys know you had magic powers anyway, if you didn't use any in front of them? (Yeah, plot holes you could drive a bus through...) |
| Cuindless04-12-08, 10:13 PM | Personally, no, I have not. I have played in games with people that were on large scale power trips, however. If you haven't met the man, then please don't malign his name. Having gamed with Mr. Gygax twice, I can honestly say that he never seemed to be on a power trip in any way and was actually an excellent tactician and masterful storyteller. Implying that an immense power trip is "Gygaxian" in nature is, quite simply, speaking ill of the dead. |
| Hellsbells04-12-08, 10:47 PM | i think he ment gygaxian as very large, referring to the large sprawling dungeons (something on the main website mentioned this). Perhaps I am wrong, I've never played first edition or met/played with Gary Gygax. |
| Nephlite04-12-08, 10:49 PM | How would these antimagic guys know you had magic powers anyway, if you didn't use any in front of them? (Yeah, plot holes you could drive a bus through...) Exactly, only your magic items would be a give away. If you do follow the DM's idea: Might I suggest selling your itemsto buy a 5 scrolls of wish to get inherent bonuses to a stat (DMs can't remove those). 28K or so. But worth it. It is a lot better idea that turning your gear off. i think he ment gygaxian as very large, referring to the large sprawling dungeons (something on the main website mentioned this). Perhaps I am wrong, I've never played first edition or met/played with Gary Gygax. Gygaxians have a multitude of meanings: 1) Tables: he loved them, he liked Diced deciding everything. 2) Railroading: Not all the time, but some of the time. Most people think of this aspect alot. 3) Never taking himself/game seriously: Heck, he made a adventure with a beer (American brand can) drinking wizard. Funny ideas. 4) Deadly traps: Tomb of Horrors is his baby. Granted, the Tomb was a tournament game, not a regularly adventure. He made a couple traps that were instant kills in his games, but not the consistency that Tomb had. |
| Etarnon04-12-08, 11:07 PM | Not all 1e DMs are power trippers. Yeah, OP, your DMs are a problem. They want this story where these NPCs are supposed to be contacted by you, so that...whatever the hell they want. Now that you have made a choice not to comply, they are stuck, because they thought "The only way to stop the army is to have these other NPCs attack the shadow-whatevers." No you have sabotaged that plan. So what. Good for you. They could in fact have Dwarves fight Dwarves in an inter clan war. Or bring out the old Elven Rivalry, or summon avatars of some Dwarven diety to keep these guys in check. All kinds of things, but they were not thinking along those lines. The clue is that the story isn't what the DM writes, it's what the players do, in game. If you reported this accurately, no, You're not a jerk, you're just a player suffering under a pair of DMs that need to learn how to allow for PC choices in the campaign. Good luck, and yes, I want to see the justification that the DMs in question have for even saying something like 100K GP to the guy following the story...or Kill the PC. Sheesh. That's just bringing to mind, "Who trained these guys to DM?" |
| Cuindless04-12-08, 11:08 PM | i think he ment gygaxian as very large, referring to the large sprawling dungeons (something on the main website mentioned this). Perhaps I am wrong, I've never played first edition or met/played with Gary Gygax. Perhaps. I may be misinterpreting, "Power trip issues of a Gygaxian scale," as, "Gygax had huge power trip issues," when, "Power trip issues bigger than Gygax's dungeons," might have been meant. I doubt it, though. Gygaxians have a multitude of meanings... ...2) Railroading: Not all the time, but some of the time. Most people think of this aspect alot... Wow. I'd never heard of this. He never seemed to be a railroader the couple of times I was at his con table. Maybe that's because we actually sat down to go through his adventure, though, rather than be in a big campaign he orchestrated... |
| Airos04-12-08, 11:23 PM | I'll only post this to further clarify, then I'm off of this subject completely, (at least as far as this thread is concerned). During the "Gygax" era of D&D, (OD&D, Basic D&D, Advanced D&D), there was a huge power tilt in favor of the DM. The DM was "god", and the players had to play by his rules. There was a ton of material available to any DM that wanted to screw with the PCs. No house rules, no custom magic items, no made-up monsters... It was all spelled out right there in the DMG/MM. 2nd edition, after Gary Gygax had less of a hand in the actual development and writing, it backed off a little from this trend. 3rd edition, Gary Gagax having nothing to do with this edition at all, has all but avoided this trend. DMs now have to put some effort into screwing the PCs. Did E. Gary Gygax go out of his way to screw the PCs? I have no idea, I never gamed with him. Did E. Gary Gygax write rules that allowed other DMs to screw the PCs? Yes. Was this intentional, or just for the sake of providing rules for everyone to run the kind of game they wanted? I don't know, I've never asked him, and will never be able to. So by "Gygaxian" I simply meant that it's on the scale of using the rules he wrote that only serve to screw the PCs. He wrote the greatest RPG known to man, (in my opinion), and I respect him for that. He's recently deceased, and I mourn the loss. I disagree with some of the rules and situations he's created, and for that I'm critical. |
| Etarnon04-13-08, 12:05 AM | Well, It certainly can be said that in 3.X, players are as easily screwed as in 1e. Just throw something more than a few CR above the party at them. I don't think it's the system, it's the DM. |
| Cuindless04-13-08, 01:28 AM | I'll only post this to further clarify, then I'm off of this subject completely, (at least as far as this thread is concerned). During the "Gygax" era of D&D, (OD&D, Basic D&D, Advanced D&D), there was a huge power tilt in favor of the DM. The DM was "god", and the players had to play by his rules. There was a ton of material available to any DM that wanted to screw with the PCs. No house rules, no custom magic items, no made-up monsters... It was all spelled out right there in the DMG/MM. 2nd edition, after Gary Gygax had less of a hand in the actual development and writing, it backed off a little from this trend. 3rd edition, Gary Gagax having nothing to do with this edition at all, has all but avoided this trend. DMs now have to put some effort into screwing the PCs. Did E. Gary Gygax go out of his way to screw the PCs? I have no idea, I never gamed with him. Did E. Gary Gygax write rules that allowed other DMs to screw the PCs? Yes. Was this intentional, or just for the sake of providing rules for everyone to run the kind of game they wanted? I don't know, I've never asked him, and will never be able to. So by "Gygaxian" I simply meant that it's on the scale of using the rules he wrote that only serve to screw the PCs. He wrote the greatest RPG known to man, (in my opinion), and I respect him for that. He's recently deceased, and I mourn the loss. I disagree with some of the rules and situations he's created, and for that I'm critical. I think I understand better. I'm sorry if I over-reacted. Thank you for explaining. |
| SmiloDan04-13-08, 02:00 AM | If you really like the gaming group you're in, and don't want to quit it, ask the DMs if you can make a second character to accompany the de-powered ones so everyone can still play together. Then, once the mission is over, and if you still like your old character better than your new character, switch back to your old character. Maybe your old character can even go on a side quest to help the war effort? And on a side note, is the reason the DMs are stripping away the spellcasting and extra magic powers because your group of PCs are being unchallenged by your current encounters? Maybe they've realized that gestalt is very hard to balance and want to keep the same character personalities for story reasons, but don't want all the extra magic powers. I think DMs should be flexible with their storylines, but sometimes they've got really fun encounters planned that require a ticket on the railroad to play. |
| pmurray@bigpond.com04-13-08, 02:09 AM | ... we are all magic-users ourselves ... learn that his ability will supress our magic for an entire year ... They keep making comments like "we should just kill them off for not following the plot", "why couldn't you just DO the procedure?" and "we should give [the late player] 100k gp for following the story". A party full of magic users, and the DMs wanted to gimp them for an entire year? And they are surprised that casters won't go for it? And they think this is a reasonable story, that a party fiull of casters would agree to such a thing? No way on the gods' green earth would a mage of any sort undergo a procedure to supress his magic for a year! He'd take his chances and dispense with these allies. Since no-one in the party is a noncaster, send someone else in to negotiate. Feh. Your regular DMs are being unreasonable way beyond the point of unreasonableness. although the DMs have awarded us with some houseruled special magic powers Question - will these special magig powers be supressed? If so, then it ain't much of a present, it it? If not - then what you have here are DM's that don't want to play D&D: they want to use their own magic system. |
| Cuindless04-13-08, 02:21 AM | I still say he should invite the DMs to these boards and let them explain their side. If we don't have enough info, then maybe we're being a little harsh. If, on the other hand, the DMs are exactly as the OP states, then we can patiently explain to them that... http://content.pyzam.com/funnypics/misc/DoingItWrong6.jpg |
| IceFractal04-13-08, 02:27 AM | Railroading, most definitely. So let me get this straight: The PCs are already not strong enough to turn the tide by themselves, and are supposed to get considerably weaker by having most of their abilities suppressed, so they are playing at best a bit part in the war. But this anti-magic group will be helping them! And presumably that's enough to turn the tide? So what it boils down to is that the PCs basically act the role of messengers and coffee-fetchers while the one group of NPCs fights another group of NPCs? That's a "story" you want no part of. By all means, stay far, far away from this powertrip. And tell the DMs that if they want to write a novel, they don't need players to do it. And incidentally, since the players have such a bit part anyway, why is it necessary to get anything suppressed? Just go travel to a distant land while the anti-magic group fights the shadow magic group. |
| rironin04-13-08, 02:59 AM | I can only think of one excuse the DMs might have for this bit of a fiasco. Perhaps it was their plan to cajole you into this nonmagic business, and then have one adventure filled with interesting no-magic-for-you challenges, and wrap it all up with another crowbar plot maneuver that antimagically restores your magic after a week instead of a year. There are a number of interesting ways this could've worked out. Maybe the antimagic dudes are really enemies, trying to steal the PCs' magic away to take them out of the fight, and the PCs have to end up killing them nonmagically in order to get their magic back. Maybe the next adventure involved losing their magic for the year, ostensibly, but then somehow proving themselves to the nonmagic dudes and making them see the light, to gain their allegiance and give them their magical powers back to boot. Etc, etc - in the wide world of fantasy there are innumerable ways that the PCs could've ended up remagicked by the end of the next play session. IF that's what your DMs were thinking all along, then their frustration is a tiny bit understandable - they're just wishing you'd trust them long enough to let them give you the rest of the plot, and you'll see that everything comes out all right in the end. Still, they made some pretty big mistakes - they flubbed the pitch, and put your characters in a situation that doesn't jive with the reality of the story at all. So that's on them, and they shouldn't be crying about it, no matter how cool the adventure was going to be and how happy the PCs were going to be at the end of the next session. Honestly, if something like that is so central to the plot, it's almost better to wack the PCs with an antimagic meteorite that just falls from the sky and demagicks them, free will or not. Setting up some thin storyline and then telling the players they have to choose the icky path is worse than just slapping them with the hand of God. Many D&D players will tell you that dropping a bomb on the players without their consent is just as bad, but if there's some trust between DM and players it can still work. Even if the world goes topsy-turvy, if the DM has a way that the players can win out in the end and regain whatever he's taken away from them with their own wits and bravery, then it can be a very satisfying time. The other alternative, of course, is that your DMs were really planning on running the next year of game time with all your characters deprived of all magic. In theory, during this next year a lot of stuff is going to happen - the war in your game could be won or lost during this time. It's honestly kind of hard to contemplate any DMs actually wanting to do something like this. It seems laughable that they wouldn't see the giant, game-destroying problems that course of action would cause... How can any DMs, even novices, not realize that taking all magic away from the players when they've been heavily investing in magic for 5 levels is going to be a huge, disruptive problem? How could they not see the potential game-balancing nightmare they, as DMs, will have to face, pitting their magicless players against an array of magical enemies (even if the whole campaign were nonmagical, game balance in D&D is not easy with all magic removed). It seems almost inconceivable, and this is why I sort of hope that they had planned on some alternate way to get you your magic back quickly, as I said above. Either way, some pretty egregious mistakes have been made. All DMs gaff, though. Perhaps this is just a really big speed bump on their way to famous Dungeon Mastering careers :P |
| danielinthewolvesden04-13-08, 08:59 PM | I still say he should invite the DMs to these boards and let them explain their side. If we don't have enough info, then maybe we're being a little harsh. If, on the other hand, the DMs are exactly as the OP states, then we can patiently explain to them that... I agree.:w00t: Let us hear both sides.:uh-huh: |
| Cuindless04-13-08, 10:23 PM | I agree.:w00t: Let us hear both sides. Earlier in the thread I credited you for this oft-made statement. |
| green_yawgmoth04-14-08, 02:25 PM | I think they should ditch the group and go write their little story themselves. Echo that. if they want characters that follow their whims every time, they need to write them themselves, not expect other people to do it. The most important DM skill is the skill to roll with the PCs. Adaptivity is paramount. If you can't accept that the PCs might (and will) do something you didn't plan on, then you have no business behind that screen. Go write a book if you need characters that follow a predesigned plot to the letter. |
| Clem-Da-Squig04-14-08, 03:59 PM | That's retarded. If any DM made a threat to my character for 'not following the plot', I'd be packing my stuff and departing, never to play with them again. But it wouldn't be the last time they heard from me. I'd let others who might accidentally game with them be forewarned. That's not being a good DM. That's not being a good person. That's Retarded Fixed:D |