Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheUnknownZombie 01-09-05, 07:03 PM	I came up with a character concept the other day: Hexblade/Occult Slayer. My reasoning was that he was jealous of those with more control over their magical gifts than he did and was tracking them down to decide whether or not they deserve to live. He's a neutral Hex7/OccSla2 who uses a two-bladed sword and bolas to bring down his foes. When I showed my concept to another player, he said that he "didn't get it" and that it was "illogical". Thoughts?
Razoreface 01-09-05, 07:56 PM	I wouldn't say it's an illogical class selection. I'm not sure how they mechanically work together, but from the standpoint of the character's mentality, it's a perfectly logical class decision. The character's mentality may seem illogical to someone else, since it's a magical class with the occult slayer as a second class... but to the character himself, it's perfectly logical. And from at least one standpoint, every class is illogical. You just have to find the right spot to stand.
Board_Rider 01-09-05, 09:16 PM	I do not think that is illogical...diferent maybe...but not illogical.
CJ1720 01-09-05, 09:26 PM	You realize that a person that is out to destroy others like him or herself has massive psychological issues going. Destroying others like yourself is a form of suicide. This person more than likely has the following traits: 1. Self-hatred 2. Suicidal, but not overtly so 3. Paranoid, but not delusional 4. Narsacissitic to an incredible degree (anyone better than me deserves to die). The concept works based on these issues, but if this person really existed he or she would be difficult to be around to say the least. I accept that there are some who may disagree with me here, and object that roleplay characters don't have to be slavishly dependent on real world psychological variables. I'm just saying that if this person existed in our world (and they do -- every serial murder to some degree), this is how it would look. If you want to roleplay this character to the nth degree, be prepared for some pretty negative social effects.
Razoreface 01-09-05, 11:55 PM	I don't think it has to be that deep at all... lots of people go out of their way to damage people who are better at something than they are. Some people even think that's just how smart people get themselves better careers. This guy isn't killing others who have magical aptitude because he doesn't like that he's got magic.. he's doing it because they're better than him, and that's a problem for him.
TheUnknownZombie 01-10-05, 09:09 AM	I don't think it has to be that deep at all... lots of people go out of their way to damage people who are better at something than they are. Some people even think that's just how smart people get themselves better careers. This guy isn't killing others who have magical aptitude because he doesn't like that he's got magic.. he's doing it because they're better than him, and that's a problem for him. That's pretty much the concept. His own magic is minor and easily dwarfed by sorcerers and wizards. His spells are based around eliminating any bodyguards the spellcaster might have, and his weaponry is most useful against the spellcasters themselves. I spoke with the guy who said my idea was illogical, and he clarified that he presumed that the character would attack all spellcasters (whether arcane or divine) on sight and wouldn't be able to work with any in a party. My reply was that he had no grudge against divine casters and judged all arcanists individually. He'd keep an eye on any in the party, for any signs of "corruption". He then said that this would sow discord in the party and would make any spellcasters paranoid about their actions around my character. I told him that was the point. I guess what I'm asking is that is it wrong to create a character who will cause these problems? I think it's decent roleplaying, but he seems to think it's nothing but troublemaking.
CJ1720 01-10-05, 04:20 PM	Nothings wrong with it. My point is that Richard Nixon went out of his way to damage his opponents by publishing falsified pictures of them and by authorizing burglaries. Tonya Harding went out of her way to damage opponents by paying someone to break Nancy Kerrigan's knee. Both of these people are certainly narcissitic -- I can violate laws and social norms, because I'm me. Both were certainly paranoid at the time of their crimes. Both had sufficient amounts of ego to drive them into the spotlight, but insufficient self-confidence to actually work well there. Those that simply damage their betters by spreading malicious rumors are on the narcissitic side of things and half a gross lack of self-esteem if nothing else. This character feels he is justified in judging others, not just anyone else but those of a certain profession or skill, and kiling them if they don't pass his test. That sounds awfully narcissitic to me -- I have the right to judge and punish in this extra-societal way -- and paranoid -- I don't want others to be using magic better than I do. And like he doesn't have the self-confidence to improve his own use of magic. In fact, it sounds like a serial killer. My opinion. I respect your right to disagree with it. I can't get around the completely anti-social nature of the character concept and can't see the character as being anything other than LE.
Mootilator 01-10-05, 04:42 PM	I don't see anything really wrong with it, either. Many will disagree with me, I know, but to me it's kind of the situation in Star Wars where Darth Vader eliminated practically all the Jedi under the guidance of the Emperor. I'm not sure I see it as a type of suicide, because that can be taken to any extreme...is killing another human a type of suicide? How about just another male? Or another guy with brown hair? Where should the similarities stop? Although I DO see it as antisocial behavior at best and psychopathic behavior at worst. And that may be part of the persona you wish to create, which is pretty creative, I think.
Garret Gallowsblade 01-10-05, 05:00 PM	I think it's a pretty cool idea for an NPC or a character in a "arcane magic is evil" type campaign. I wouldn't play him in a normal campaign because I would rather avoid the paranoia it could bring.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 01-10-05, 06:08 PM	I would say it's not illogical. 1): Rangers can select their own race as favored ennemies, meaning that even from a narrow-minded, rules-obsessive point, you can make a char. to slay your own kind. 2): You know the saying, it takes fire to fight fire.
CJ1720 01-10-05, 06:15 PM	I I'm not sure I see it as a type of suicide, because that can be taken to any extreme...is killing another human a type of suicide? How about just another male? Or another guy with brown hair? Where should the similarities stop? Although I DO see it as antisocial behavior at best and psychopathic behavior at worst. And that may be part of the persona you wish to create, which is pretty creative, I think. It isn't exactly suicidal -- an attempt to kill one's self -- but it is an attempt to kill the facisimile of one's self. If a person is clearly closely identified with an aspect of himself and then uses that characteristic to select his murder victims, then it is acting out a self directed hostility. If a person thinks of himself as the "brown-haired boy," believes that all other men with brown hair are somehow taking away from his wonderfulness and then goes about damaging men with brown hair, then it is a way of damaging himself. I am arguing that since this character is targeting arcane spell casters because he is an arcane spell casters, then he is indeed in a way targeting himself. Also, deliberately putting yourself in dangerous situations is a type of suicidal act. It is an attempt to hurt yourself without overtly doing so. People may argue with this, but it is true. Of course, perceptions of danger are somewhat relative and so there is wiggle room. However, I don't see much wiggle room here. This doesn't mean that the player has to play a Richard Nixon-type character. I was merely commenting on whether I thought the character was logical and why. The character is logical because of the way the character is functioning psychologically.
Kadasbrass 01-10-05, 08:59 PM	I was thinking of doing a Hexblade Occult Slayer myself few weeks back. Roleplay wise I think the best allignment for the 'Mage Hunter' Hexblade would be LN. If you wanted to 'relief' the fear that other party members might have that you try to kill them just create your own code of conduct, maybe jolt down 10 or so basic codes such as: "Rule 54: Upon investigation of any friends, family, or allies subsected of practicing the 'Dark Arts,' I am Honor bound to use as little force as possible in any effort to convince them to change their ways."
TheUnknownZombie 01-10-05, 09:18 PM	Nothings wrong with it. My point is that Richard Nixon went out of his way to damage his opponents by publishing falsified pictures of them and by authorizing burglaries. Tonya Harding went out of her way to damage opponents by paying someone to break Nancy Kerrigan's knee. Both of these people are certainly narcissitic -- I can violate laws and social norms, because I'm me. Both were certainly paranoid at the time of their crimes. Both had sufficient amounts of ego to drive them into the spotlight, but insufficient self-confidence to actually work well there. Those that simply damage their betters by spreading malicious rumors are on the narcissitic side of things and half a gross lack of self-esteem if nothing else. This character feels he is justified in judging others, not just anyone else but those of a certain profession or skill, and kiling them if they don't pass his test. That sounds awfully narcissitic to me -- I have the right to judge and punish in this extra-societal way -- and paranoid -- I don't want others to be using magic better than I do. And like he doesn't have the self-confidence to improve his own use of magic. In fact, it sounds like a serial killer. My opinion. I respect your right to disagree with it. I can't get around the completely anti-social nature of the character concept and can't see the character as being anything other than LE. Interesting points. I'm not arguing against narcissism (if that's how you spell it) - I considered this an integral flaw of the character, he's extremely vain - but surely the vast majority of PCs can be considered extremely similar? Most heroes consider themselves out of the ordinary - and most have difficulty bowing to a higher authority. In fact in my opinion, only LG and LN characters are likely to accept this with grace and goodwill. I never considered the serial killer angle. I think he'd see himself as more of a vigilante (something that a lot of serial killers delude themselves about, I know). He's eliminating those with dangerous abilities that far outweigh his own, capable of killing hundreds with a thought. I suppose it's a common real-life fear too: Who do you trust with the keys to the nuclear arsenals of the world? And if you thought someone untrustworthy was going to abuse them, wouldn't that make you want to act? A friend of mine once put the following question to me (it was late and we were kinda drunk): If you were offered omnipotence, but not omnicogniscence; responsibility for the world's welfare, but not the experience to guide you, would you accept it? Basically, would you accept responsibility for the fate of humanity? I answered "Yes." He was surprised and asked why. "I can't think of anyone I'd trust with that power, so I'd rather keep it myself." Narcissitic, I know, but sadly the truth. Who would YOU trust with ultimate power? I don't see anything really wrong with it, either. Many will disagree with me, I know, but to me it's kind of the situation in Star Wars where Darth Vader eliminated practically all the Jedi under the guidance of the Emperor. That hadn't occured to me either. I smell a lawsuit. I would say it's not illogical. 1): Rangers can select their own race as favored ennemies, meaning that even from a narrow-minded, rules-obsessive point, you can make a char. to slay your own kind. 2): You know the saying, it takes fire to fight fire. My last character was a human Ranger, who I considered having "Humanoid:Human" as his favoured enemy. Not because of murderous tendencies, but because that's who he had had most negative dealings with in the past. I decided to ditch that concept though, as it meant I'd be getting skill bonuses every time I walked into a city. He went for Giants instead - and did just fine until he took on one troll too many... Thanks for the input by the way guys.
TheUnknownZombie 01-10-05, 09:21 PM	I was thinking of doing a Hexblade Occult Slayer myself few weeks back. Roleplay wise I think the best allignment for the 'Mage Hunter' Hexblade would be LN. If you wanted to 'relief' the fear that other party members might have that you try to kill them just create your own code of conduct, maybe jolt down 10 or so basic codes such as: "Rule 54: Upon investigation of any friends, family, or allies subsected of practicing the 'Dark Arts,' I am Honor bound to use as little force as possible in any effort to convince them to change their ways." I like the idea of that... Maybe add some small print saying that on rainy Mondays the character is exempt from having to justify any homocidal action before noon.
CJ1720 01-10-05, 09:33 PM	My reasoning was that he was jealous of those with more control over their magical gifts than he did and was tracking them down to decide whether or not they deserve to live. He's eliminating those with dangerous abilities that far outweigh his own, capable of killing hundreds with a thought. I suppose it's a common real-life fear too: Who do you trust with the keys to the nuclear arsenals of the world? And if you thought someone untrustworthy was going to abuse them, wouldn't that make you want to act? Nixon thought that the citizens of California and later the United States were untrustworthy to make the right decision -- electing him. Tonya Harding thought the Olympic judges were untrustworthy to make the right decision -- deeming her routine the best. Most of us are narcissistic (yes it is spelled correctly) to some degree; it is best measured on a continuum, but a person who is breaching social order, morays and laws based on their belief that they deserve something or are the best judge of something is narcissistic to a pathological degree, especially when it comes to harming others where it be physically, mentally or by reputation. I think that narcissism is great character flaw and one that many of our heros share. I just thought I'd point out what you were proposing in what I consider a more realistic and less favorable light. I think it could be a great character to play.