Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Throg 01-27-06, 10:53 AM	In a new Eberron Campain a friend of mine is running, I've decided to play a Warforged Artificer, starting level 4th. This is great and all, but the other three players are filling the roles of a Rogue/Fighter, Main Tank, Secondary Fighter. The weight on my shoulders are healer, knowlage man, Main Trap Disabler, and buffer/spell caster. Would this be concidered too much for any one person to deal with? If not, what would the whole of the players here say would be the best way as an Artificer to play all the roles equally well? I was planning on a lot of wand usage (Probably going to buy or make the wand sheath at a later date and put in a wand of healing), as well as maybe buying the unlimited scroll case (The one that lets you hold up to 50 scrolls/documents). Are there certain spells I should probably focus on using or looking for at a later date?
Nom 01-27-06, 10:02 PM	First advice: don't try to play all the roles. You and the rogue can both do after-combat healing using a wand of cure light wounds and UMD; you can also use your infusions to heal warforged (ie yourself). Buffing is the artificer's speciality, so focus on that. You're probably not going to have enough skill points left after UMD and Spellcraft to specialise in both devices and knowledge, so pick one and let the rest of the party worry about the other. It's good to work as a team, but at some point you have to say "well, I can only cover these niches; if you want these other areas covered, you'll have to figure out how to do so".
TheChilliGod 01-27-06, 10:37 PM	Wow. I'm quite amazed at how many threads recently have popped up recently claiming that vital party roles are missing and the end of the world is nigh unless we can fill all those roles with one character. Methinks it's due to those Tactics and Tips articles about party balance. I find that, with a lot of fighters in the party, damage overall is easier to heal, because it gets spread out nice and neatly, and the enemy gets so much damage dealt to it that it topples before it can attack. So one wand of cure light is probably all you would ever need. (It was all the cleric needed for our 5th lvl party) I've no idea why a Knowledgeable character is an absolute necessity to a party, so don't bother with that, and trap-disabling can be done fairly enough by the rogue-fighter. If you feel these roles are a MUST, but your skill points are needed elsewhere too, spend a feat on Jack of Many Trades. (Complete Adventurer) It gives you half-a-rank in every skill, so you should have no problems doing skill-y stuff. And Aid Another is a godsend for you. With the buffer job in the good hands of your spell-casting capabilities, you should be able to fill these roles soundly.
Throg 01-28-06, 11:06 AM	There's a few things.. 1) Our DM blatently said we should try to have a lot of knowlage skills and 'Face' skills (Like Diplomacy, Sense Motive, ect). I'd rather take his word for that. Though, I'm letting everyone else in the party take care of the 'Face' skills, while I focus on knowlageable things. 2) With our party (All friends of mine), at least one of them I know won't think before charing into battle foolheartedly, though I do think just having a wand of cure light for now will be fine enough just need to watch the charge useage is all. 3) Our Rogue/Fighter, I ment Rogue/Ranger, focusing more on combat then sneaky stuff, going TWF. The chances of him having a good enough Search and Disable for a party is slim, since the DC to find is usually 20+Party level, or about there, same with traps if they're magical. He'll be more use being the secondary helper to finding and disabiling traps. (I think his Disable is a total of 6, not all that great) 4) I'm not sure how much our DM will use traps, so I might not need to focus on it as a main ability, but filling in for the gaps would be optimal and may be usefull other ways. I -know- that having all party roles filled isn't needed, but it would be nice to have them all at least filled a little. With our Rogue/Ranger we have the tracker/scout, A Main Tank.. though I'm not sure if he has other abilities other then being muscle man, then a Swash/Fighter in a human who has a variety of skills (Was going to have UMD untill he found out how difficult it actually is and that a rank or two wouldn't work in the least.) I think I can fill the roles just well, I'm just asking if it would be too hard for one person to do.
nastynate 01-28-06, 11:19 AM	Some of the other PCs are going to have pull some of the weight. The ranger/rogue will have more skill points than you, so let him take ranks in some knowledge skills, and he'll still have enough left over for disable device/open locks. He can also handle trapfinding and tracking. Your swashy/fighter should have enough skill points for at least one knowledge skill, diplomacy, and still be your tank. You can handle some of the healing, but if you make wands of CLW the rogue/ranger can use them too (w/o needing UMD because he's a ranger). So if you all invest some skill points into knowledge skills you should have them covered no problem. I think you have an interesting mix of characters, but it seems like for a three man party you've got things faily well covered. You should concentrate on UMD and wands, rather than buffing, because you'll end up having to use many of your infusions to heal yourself, and having sombody who can throw fireballs is always useful IMHO.
jpyrich 01-29-06, 12:37 AM	If Ranger/Rogue is going to specialize in being sneaky, then he'll be the party scout. He better have high perception skills (Spot, Listen and *Search*) or he's going to end up in a lot of trouble. Once the Rogue finds the trap and shows you, you can Disable it. Also, the Rogue only needs to hit a DC10 on his Disable Device to Aid you and give you a +2 Circumstance bonus. What's your Int? Artificiers get 6sp/level right? So, if you've got a 16+ that gives you 9 class skills that you could max out if you wanted. So, you max out Open Locks, Disable Device, UMD, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana) and a Craft Skill. That leaves you with three skills left that you could max out, or you could spread the points around a bit. Take a look at the Synergies. They'll help you a lot. If you convince the Rogue to play your backup on Disable checks, you could shave off some points there. Also, you could convince the party to buy you Masterwork Thieves Tools for another +2 bonus. You're not going to be able to be the complete Knowledge man, but you should be able to get a few knowledge skills up a little. Tell the Ranger/Rogue that you expect him to handle covering his three Knowledge Class Skills. Also, the Ranger/Rogue would be well advised to throw some ranks into UMD in order to back you up. (Edit: Of course if it's just for CLW, then he could skip UMD because he's a Ranger). I'd have a conversation with the DM and see if you can get an idea what skills are going to be important, or if he's going to drive the adventures based upon your skills. You don't want to load up on The Planes and then discover that you will never be fighting extraplanar creatures. Also, explain to the DM that there are 10 base Knowledge skills plus any added to Ebberon. It's extremely rare for any party to cover them all. You should be fine as the party spell caster, but it will be a bit rough at first as you;ll be doing double duty (buffing and healing). After you've made a few wands things will get better. You may have a problem in that you lack some of the higher level Clerical spells, but I only have a passing familiarity with Ebberon so I'm not sure if that will be a problem. It's not going to be a walk in the park, but it's possible. Oh, you can use the "if you ever want me to make magic items for you" motivator on your fellow party members. It may work wonders. :devil: JP
jpyrich 01-29-06, 01:21 AM	I was curious so I did some more digging on the Artificer class (yes, I'm that much of a geek). Anyway, my advice as I expected, was a bit off. You don't really need all that much in the way of Knowledge Arcana or Spellcraft. Here's an Artificer FAQ that I found interesting. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=534502 The points on using a homonculous for scouting and constructing; and the Renegade Mastermaker PrC (were you become a Warforged). The PrC sounds interesting because you might be able to start out as Human with a Mark of Making (I don't know the requirements). I hope this helps, JP