Am I under/overpowered [Archive] - Wizards Community

Am I under/overpowered [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JohnGalt
07-31-05, 09:41 PM Right now I am a swashbuckler 3/fighter 4/champion of corellon lantheon 2/exotic weapon master 1

I am using the TWF feat chain, and have 2 elven lightblades. Both lightblades have wounding. I also have gloves of dex +2 and headband of int +2.

So I get 4 attacks at 16/11/11/11(i use 5 from main attack for combat expertise) dealing 1d6 + 11 + 1 con each.

I feel that is pretty powerful, but i want to check.
Edit/Delete Message
Rallaster
07-31-05, 09:47 PM How many different classes and prestige classes are DM's allowing people to join now-a-days? Jeez. You might want to hop over here (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=339).
peakaboojones
07-31-05, 09:49 PM In another couple of levels all other classes will surpass you damge dealing capability. i.e. a dire bear form druid with a bear animal companion, using summon natures ally to call dire bears, swarming an opponent. You need to keep on edge and constantly find ways to increase you damage by a grotesque amount. I reccomend a dervish/tempest mix with speed weapons. Also get balanced weapons so you can use large swords like medium. eventually get monkey grip and weild oversized weapons, and youll be about one die ahead of average damage, but like i said, your going to come close to being underpowered for a few levels.
Vaelan
08-01-05, 04:21 AM The only problem I see is that you're only taking -5 on one of your attacks when using Combat Expertise. You're supposed to be taking -5 on all of your attacks when using Combat Expertise.

Rallaster, thanks for your contribution to the thread! :rolleyes:

It is hard to say if you are under- or over-powered without knowing what the rest of your party is. If you could tell us a bit about them, it would make such an assessment at all possible.
Plateau Child
08-01-05, 07:33 AM I second Rallaster's "Jeez."
Traevanon
08-01-05, 09:45 AM Compared to my party of 10th level characters you are about right.

You appear to do quite a bit of damage only because most of our fighters died :weep: WLD ate them :eek:
Gurthoron
08-01-05, 09:56 AM Well, first off you are picking a weird mix of classes. Champ of corellon works much better with a heavy armor person do to the bonuses they get to wearing it, and Exotic Weapon master won't give you as much extra as a couple other classes. Tempest is a good class for dual-wielders, both negating some of the penalties for dual-wielding and giving two-wep spring attack. Whirling dervish isn't bad, but its designed for scimitars rather than rapier-style weapons.

I don't know how you calculated it, but your attack bonus is wrong. While I do not have your statline, weapon enhancement, or feats, I estimate the rest of your attack. Using Combat Expertise to get 5 to AC, your BAB will be 3/3/-2/-2 (10 to begin with, -5 expertise, -2 dual wield).

BTW, you will be a lot less useful against undead, constructs, and anything else not vulnerable to crits. Rapiers are designed for lots of crits, and combine that with the wounding quality and your int to damage (neither of which works against the above) you will be hurting in a fight against them.

Overall I'd say you were fine. Just watch the rules and make sure you follow them correctly. BTW, did your TWF feats include TW defense? If so, note that you only get the AC bonus when you are not using that weapon.
olshanski_home
08-01-05, 01:12 PM I think you are way underpowered:

I'd take a few levels of Thrall of Nietzsche, and then a single level of Gnostic Savior (somewhat front-loaded prestige class), then you need to find a half-celestial/half fiend weaponsmith to craft a pair of Dragonfang Blades with the planar conflict ability, (thats a +2 weapon ability) and make sure they are constructed with souls of only true neutral beings. If you use the expanded rules on combat maneuvers found in the Fencing Master's Librum, you can use the confounding parry and the labyrinthine riposte to really maximize both your damage and AC... the build sucks vs oozes and constructs, but anything with an anatomy OR mind OR soul is toast.
Mikal
08-01-05, 01:28 PM Well, first off you are picking a weird mix of classes. Champ of corellon works much better with a heavy armor person do to the bonuses they get to wearing it, and Exotic Weapon master won't give you as much extra as a couple other classes. Tempest is a good class for dual-wielders, both negating some of the penalties for dual-wielding and giving two-wep spring attack. Whirling dervish isn't bad, but its designed for scimitars rather than rapier-style weapons.

Slightly right and somewhat wrong. Champ of Corellian 2 works great for this type of build because it gives you your dex modifier in addition to your str mod to weapon damage, giving a nice bonus when combined with the swashbucklers intelligence modifier to damage along with any other mods, including str. So basically, he gets str+int+dex mods to weapon damage. However, the exotic weapon master in this case isn't working too well. EWM for this type of build would be better suited for a single weapon wielder double handing it, to get *2 str mod to damage. In fact, I can't see any reason to dual wield elven blades with EWM.
The other problem with this build is that it'll suffer from MAD syndrome, needing high str, dex, int, and con to function at its best, making it an expensive build, but worth while. If I was you in this situation however, I'd go Elven Thinblade, same class levels, (but take the exotic weapon trick uncanny blow instead for *2 str mod), and take the Kensai PrC for the power boost +8 to str and free weapon enhancements. But that's me.

And for the poster that said something about multiclassing a lot, give me a damn break. One can min/max just as easily with base classes as they can with multiclassing. In fact,it's usually HARDER with multiclassing due to the fact you have to balance out the different modifiers that multiclassing entails. :rolleyes:

But for the original poster, I'd say you're a little above average, except for the fact almost all your extra damage will be negated by anything immune to sneak attacks. If you want to maximize your damage even further, get the maiming enhancements to your swords ASAP (+2 bonus that gives +5 damage to your weapons, even against things immune to sneak attacks, which negates your insightful strike ability). You might also want to tack on some rogue levels or other SA abilities as well, to better your TWFing
Lord Schpungus
08-01-05, 05:25 PM *Sig Derail*

I would say the paladin lost his paladinhood, but is probably exalted now, just not Lawful exalted.

*we now return to your regularly scheduled post*

Funny story about the Champ of Corellon. I had a player ask if he could become as CoCL as a lizardfolk. I had to laugh him out of the room. What a munchkin.
Dragonsblood
08-01-05, 10:35 PM The only two weapon fighter (that is, non-sneak attack) build I've seen that isn't underpowered had its legallity questioned by half the posters. I'd stick to a melee build with a greatsword or other two handed weapon if I were you.
Mikal
08-01-05, 10:44 PM *Sig Derail*

I would say the paladin lost his paladinhood, but is probably exalted now, just not Lawful exalted.

*we now return to your regularly scheduled post*

Funny story about the Champ of Corellon. I had a player ask if he could become as CoCL as a lizardfolk. I had to laugh him out of the room. What a munchkin.

Technically he could, if he took that 'elffriend' PrC first, whatever its called. Also found in the Races of the Wild book
Jherid
08-01-05, 11:09 PM Whirling dervish isn't bad, but its designed for scimitars rather than rapier-style weapons.

Also dervish dance doesn't even work with piercing weapons, which an elven lightblade is.

Technically he could, if he took that 'elffriend' PrC first, whatever its called. Also found in the Races of the Wild book

Ruathar doesn't actually change your race to elf/half-elf or allow you to emulate an elf for PRC requirements.
Lord Schpungus
08-01-05, 11:41 PM since there's no god resembling Correlon IMC, and the player had no interest in elfness, I'd say yeah....
Hvitar-Hrafnar
08-02-05, 12:01 AM Right now I am a swashbuckler 3/fighter 4/champion of corellon lantheon 2/exotic weapon master 1

I am using the TWF feat chain, and have 2 elven lightblades. Both lightblades have wounding. I also have gloves of dex +2 and headband of int +2.

So I get 4 attacks at 16/11/11/11(i use 5 from main attack for combat expertise) dealing 1d6 + 11 + 1 con each.

I feel that is pretty powerful, but i want to check.
Edit/Delete Message

You're not really overpowered, but that is a very nice combination.

Over powered, somewhat, is a Barbarian in my group. Hes 12th level, and when we boosted him, took out a DeathBringer in 2 rounds. Normally he does about 30 damage per axe, but when we boosted him, he was doing around 60. [Large Half-Orc Barbarian with +2 and +3 Great Axes] He also gets four attacks.

I am wondering, how is Exotic Weapon Master working out for you. I have Masters of the Wild (No idea why it's in there) and it didn't look like a worthwhile class at all. I would rather take a small penalty than waste class levels on trying to use a weapon, or wait until you get a feat. Another option is asking your DM for a favor after atleast a month of training, if you were going to do that, anyway.
JohnGalt
08-02-05, 12:23 AM I took the Exotic Weapon Master to bring the TWF penalties down to -1/-1. It did seem like a waste of level, but I couldn't find anything else to fit in there.
Vaelan
08-02-05, 01:16 AM I think you are way underpowered:

I'd take a few levels of Thrall of Nietzsche, and then a single level of Gnostic Savior (somewhat front-loaded prestige class), then you need to find a half-celestial/half fiend weaponsmith to craft a pair of Dragonfang Blades with the planar conflict ability, (thats a +2 weapon ability) and make sure they are constructed with souls of only true neutral beings. If you use the expanded rules on combat maneuvers found in the Fencing Master's Librum, you can use the confounding parry and the labyrinthine riposte to really maximize both your damage and AC... the build sucks vs oozes and constructs, but anything with an anatomy OR mind OR soul is toast.
Would you mind contributing to the thread, olshanki? I don't think the OP was asking for ridicule.
Cymraegmorgan
08-02-05, 03:18 AM I think you are way underpowered:

I'd take a few levels of Thrall of Nietzsche, and then a single level of Gnostic Savior (somewhat front-loaded prestige class), then you need to find a half-celestial/half fiend weaponsmith to craft a pair of Dragonfang Blades with the planar conflict ability, (thats a +2 weapon ability) and make sure they are constructed with souls of only true neutral beings. If you use the expanded rules on combat maneuvers found in the Fencing Master's Librum, you can use the confounding parry and the labyrinthine riposte to really maximize both your damage and AC... the build sucks vs oozes and constructs, but anything with an anatomy OR mind OR soul is toast.
:w00t: :dancin: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :clap: :clap:
SonsOfKyuss
08-02-05, 05:15 AM I think you are way underpowered:

I'd take a few levels of Thrall of Nietzsche, and then a single level of Gnostic Savior (somewhat front-loaded prestige class), then you need to find a half-celestial/half fiend weaponsmith to craft a pair of Dragonfang Blades with the planar conflict ability, (thats a +2 weapon ability) and make sure they are constructed with souls of only true neutral beings. If you use the expanded rules on combat maneuvers found in the Fencing Master's Librum, you can use the confounding parry and the labyrinthine riposte to really maximize both your damage and AC... the build sucks vs oozes and constructs, but anything with an anatomy OR mind OR soul is toast.

I sincerely hope those aren't real classes and abilities, but either way thats the funniest thing I've seen all day.

To JohnGalt:

The CO board would probably be able to give you more helpful and less insulting advice for a number of reasons. First, they are powergaming addicts and will help you for the sheer joy they gain from number crunching. Second, builds like yours pop up a couple times a month and they probably have every relavent rule fresh in their poor deranged minds. And third, there is an announcement that basicly says, "Be nice to people who post things that make your parts hurt."

There is no such announcement here.
Derren S.
08-02-05, 06:27 AM The only thing overpowered are the wounding weapons, but that is not your fault. They are generally overpowered.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JohnGalt 07-31-05, 09:41 PM	Right now I am a swashbuckler 3/fighter 4/champion of corellon lantheon 2/exotic weapon master 1 I am using the TWF feat chain, and have 2 elven lightblades. Both lightblades have wounding. I also have gloves of dex +2 and headband of int +2. So I get 4 attacks at 16/11/11/11(i use 5 from main attack for combat expertise) dealing 1d6 + 11 + 1 con each. I feel that is pretty powerful, but i want to check. Edit/Delete Message
Rallaster 07-31-05, 09:47 PM	How many different classes and prestige classes are DM's allowing people to join now-a-days? Jeez. You might want to hop over here (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=339).
peakaboojones 07-31-05, 09:49 PM	In another couple of levels all other classes will surpass you damge dealing capability. i.e. a dire bear form druid with a bear animal companion, using summon natures ally to call dire bears, swarming an opponent. You need to keep on edge and constantly find ways to increase you damage by a grotesque amount. I reccomend a dervish/tempest mix with speed weapons. Also get balanced weapons so you can use large swords like medium. eventually get monkey grip and weild oversized weapons, and youll be about one die ahead of average damage, but like i said, your going to come close to being underpowered for a few levels.
Vaelan 08-01-05, 04:21 AM	The only problem I see is that you're only taking -5 on one of your attacks when using Combat Expertise. You're supposed to be taking -5 on all of your attacks when using Combat Expertise. Rallaster, thanks for your contribution to the thread! :rolleyes: It is hard to say if you are under- or over-powered without knowing what the rest of your party is. If you could tell us a bit about them, it would make such an assessment at all possible.
Plateau Child 08-01-05, 07:33 AM	I second Rallaster's "Jeez."
Traevanon 08-01-05, 09:45 AM	Compared to my party of 10th level characters you are about right. You appear to do quite a bit of damage only because most of our fighters died :weep: WLD ate them :eek:
Gurthoron 08-01-05, 09:56 AM	Well, first off you are picking a weird mix of classes. Champ of corellon works much better with a heavy armor person do to the bonuses they get to wearing it, and Exotic Weapon master won't give you as much extra as a couple other classes. Tempest is a good class for dual-wielders, both negating some of the penalties for dual-wielding and giving two-wep spring attack. Whirling dervish isn't bad, but its designed for scimitars rather than rapier-style weapons. I don't know how you calculated it, but your attack bonus is wrong. While I do not have your statline, weapon enhancement, or feats, I estimate the rest of your attack. Using Combat Expertise to get 5 to AC, your BAB will be 3/3/-2/-2 (10 to begin with, -5 expertise, -2 dual wield). BTW, you will be a lot less useful against undead, constructs, and anything else not vulnerable to crits. Rapiers are designed for lots of crits, and combine that with the wounding quality and your int to damage (neither of which works against the above) you will be hurting in a fight against them. Overall I'd say you were fine. Just watch the rules and make sure you follow them correctly. BTW, did your TWF feats include TW defense? If so, note that you only get the AC bonus when you are not using that weapon.
olshanski_home 08-01-05, 01:12 PM	I think you are way underpowered: I'd take a few levels of Thrall of Nietzsche, and then a single level of Gnostic Savior (somewhat front-loaded prestige class), then you need to find a half-celestial/half fiend weaponsmith to craft a pair of Dragonfang Blades with the planar conflict ability, (thats a +2 weapon ability) and make sure they are constructed with souls of only true neutral beings. If you use the expanded rules on combat maneuvers found in the Fencing Master's Librum, you can use the confounding parry and the labyrinthine riposte to really maximize both your damage and AC... the build sucks vs oozes and constructs, but anything with an anatomy OR mind OR soul is toast.
Mikal 08-01-05, 01:28 PM	Well, first off you are picking a weird mix of classes. Champ of corellon works much better with a heavy armor person do to the bonuses they get to wearing it, and Exotic Weapon master won't give you as much extra as a couple other classes. Tempest is a good class for dual-wielders, both negating some of the penalties for dual-wielding and giving two-wep spring attack. Whirling dervish isn't bad, but its designed for scimitars rather than rapier-style weapons. Slightly right and somewhat wrong. Champ of Corellian 2 works great for this type of build because it gives you your dex modifier in addition to your str mod to weapon damage, giving a nice bonus when combined with the swashbucklers intelligence modifier to damage along with any other mods, including str. So basically, he gets str+int+dex mods to weapon damage. However, the exotic weapon master in this case isn't working too well. EWM for this type of build would be better suited for a single weapon wielder double handing it, to get 2 str mod to damage. In fact, I can't see any reason to dual wield elven blades with EWM. The other problem with this build is that it'll suffer from MAD syndrome, needing high str, dex, int, and con to function at its best, making it an expensive build, but worth while. If I was you in this situation however, I'd go Elven Thinblade, same class levels, (but take the exotic weapon trick uncanny blow instead for 2 str mod), and take the Kensai PrC for the power boost +8 to str and free weapon enhancements. But that's me. And for the poster that said something about multiclassing a lot, give me a damn break. One can min/max just as easily with base classes as they can with multiclassing. In fact,it's usually HARDER with multiclassing due to the fact you have to balance out the different modifiers that multiclassing entails. :rolleyes: But for the original poster, I'd say you're a little above average, except for the fact almost all your extra damage will be negated by anything immune to sneak attacks. If you want to maximize your damage even further, get the maiming enhancements to your swords ASAP (+2 bonus that gives +5 damage to your weapons, even against things immune to sneak attacks, which negates your insightful strike ability). You might also want to tack on some rogue levels or other SA abilities as well, to better your TWFing
Lord Schpungus 08-01-05, 05:25 PM	Sig Derail I would say the paladin lost his paladinhood, but is probably exalted now, just not Lawful exalted. we now return to your regularly scheduled post Funny story about the Champ of Corellon. I had a player ask if he could become as CoCL as a lizardfolk. I had to laugh him out of the room. What a munchkin.
Dragonsblood 08-01-05, 10:35 PM	The only two weapon fighter (that is, non-sneak attack) build I've seen that isn't underpowered had its legallity questioned by half the posters. I'd stick to a melee build with a greatsword or other two handed weapon if I were you.
Mikal 08-01-05, 10:44 PM	Sig Derail I would say the paladin lost his paladinhood, but is probably exalted now, just not Lawful exalted. we now return to your regularly scheduled post Funny story about the Champ of Corellon. I had a player ask if he could become as CoCL as a lizardfolk. I had to laugh him out of the room. What a munchkin. Technically he could, if he took that 'elffriend' PrC first, whatever its called. Also found in the Races of the Wild book
Jherid 08-01-05, 11:09 PM	Whirling dervish isn't bad, but its designed for scimitars rather than rapier-style weapons. Also dervish dance doesn't even work with piercing weapons, which an elven lightblade is. Technically he could, if he took that 'elffriend' PrC first, whatever its called. Also found in the Races of the Wild book Ruathar doesn't actually change your race to elf/half-elf or allow you to emulate an elf for PRC requirements.
Lord Schpungus 08-01-05, 11:41 PM	since there's no god resembling Correlon IMC, and the player had no interest in elfness, I'd say yeah....
Hvitar-Hrafnar 08-02-05, 12:01 AM	Right now I am a swashbuckler 3/fighter 4/champion of corellon lantheon 2/exotic weapon master 1 I am using the TWF feat chain, and have 2 elven lightblades. Both lightblades have wounding. I also have gloves of dex +2 and headband of int +2. So I get 4 attacks at 16/11/11/11(i use 5 from main attack for combat expertise) dealing 1d6 + 11 + 1 con each. I feel that is pretty powerful, but i want to check. Edit/Delete Message You're not really overpowered, but that is a very nice combination. Over powered, somewhat, is a Barbarian in my group. Hes 12th level, and when we boosted him, took out a DeathBringer in 2 rounds. Normally he does about 30 damage per axe, but when we boosted him, he was doing around 60. [Large Half-Orc Barbarian with +2 and +3 Great Axes] He also gets four attacks. I am wondering, how is Exotic Weapon Master working out for you. I have Masters of the Wild (No idea why it's in there) and it didn't look like a worthwhile class at all. I would rather take a small penalty than waste class levels on trying to use a weapon, or wait until you get a feat. Another option is asking your DM for a favor after atleast a month of training, if you were going to do that, anyway.
JohnGalt 08-02-05, 12:23 AM	I took the Exotic Weapon Master to bring the TWF penalties down to -1/-1. It did seem like a waste of level, but I couldn't find anything else to fit in there.
Vaelan 08-02-05, 01:16 AM	I think you are way underpowered: I'd take a few levels of Thrall of Nietzsche, and then a single level of Gnostic Savior (somewhat front-loaded prestige class), then you need to find a half-celestial/half fiend weaponsmith to craft a pair of Dragonfang Blades with the planar conflict ability, (thats a +2 weapon ability) and make sure they are constructed with souls of only true neutral beings. If you use the expanded rules on combat maneuvers found in the Fencing Master's Librum, you can use the confounding parry and the labyrinthine riposte to really maximize both your damage and AC... the build sucks vs oozes and constructs, but anything with an anatomy OR mind OR soul is toast. Would you mind contributing to the thread, olshanki? I don't think the OP was asking for ridicule.
Cymraegmorgan 08-02-05, 03:18 AM	I think you are way underpowered: I'd take a few levels of Thrall of Nietzsche, and then a single level of Gnostic Savior (somewhat front-loaded prestige class), then you need to find a half-celestial/half fiend weaponsmith to craft a pair of Dragonfang Blades with the planar conflict ability, (thats a +2 weapon ability) and make sure they are constructed with souls of only true neutral beings. If you use the expanded rules on combat maneuvers found in the Fencing Master's Librum, you can use the confounding parry and the labyrinthine riposte to really maximize both your damage and AC... the build sucks vs oozes and constructs, but anything with an anatomy OR mind OR soul is toast. :w00t: :dancin: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :clap: :clap:
SonsOfKyuss 08-02-05, 05:15 AM	I think you are way underpowered: I'd take a few levels of Thrall of Nietzsche, and then a single level of Gnostic Savior (somewhat front-loaded prestige class), then you need to find a half-celestial/half fiend weaponsmith to craft a pair of Dragonfang Blades with the planar conflict ability, (thats a +2 weapon ability) and make sure they are constructed with souls of only true neutral beings. If you use the expanded rules on combat maneuvers found in the Fencing Master's Librum, you can use the confounding parry and the labyrinthine riposte to really maximize both your damage and AC... the build sucks vs oozes and constructs, but anything with an anatomy OR mind OR soul is toast. I sincerely hope those aren't real classes and abilities, but either way thats the funniest thing I've seen all day. To JohnGalt: The CO board would probably be able to give you more helpful and less insulting advice for a number of reasons. First, they are powergaming addicts and will help you for the sheer joy they gain from number crunching. Second, builds like yours pop up a couple times a month and they probably have every relavent rule fresh in their poor deranged minds. And third, there is an announcement that basicly says, "Be nice to people who post things that make your parts hurt." There is no such announcement here.
Derren S. 08-02-05, 06:27 AM	The only thing overpowered are the wounding weapons, but that is not your fault. They are generally overpowered.