Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Beamup 07-28-04, 09:31 AM	My group just started up a new campaign, which promises to be very interesting. I thought I'd share a bit. The setting is a post-apocalyptic world. The short version is that, about 20 years ago, a cataclysm occurred - nobody still alive knows too many details about exactly what happened. The upshot is that the gods are simply, as far as anyone can tell, gone. Which also resulted in arcane magic getting messed up - the world was Faerunish in that there was a magical Weave that was divinely maintained, but no longer is. Most of the population, including essentially all high-level characters, died. Also, travel via the transitive planes is exceedingly difficult, so teleportation and interplanar travel are basically unheard of currently. So, all arcane magic is gone. All divine magic granted by deities is gone - and in fact, all magical healing undid itself, so virtually every mid-to-high level character died as a lifetime of injuries came back all at once. The only magic left is Druid magic (drawn from nature rather than a god) and magic that gets its power from something other than gods - such as a Paladin's magic, drawn directly from the planes of Good. But in terms of magical items, it's a pretty normal-magic setting. Most of the old items are gone, of course - only those made by Druids remain. But since the vast majority of the world's population is dead, there's about as much magic left as people. Custom items are likely a problem, but found/off-the-shelf is normalish. The characters we're playing are also rather interesting. Since there are only two of us, the DM decided to implement a concept he'd been thinking about for a while. We're playing Gestalt characters... where at each level, one half of the gestalt has to be a template or monster level (until high levels, anyway). This, of course, leads to exotic characters. So I'm playing an... Exalted Feral Half-Celestial Natural Weretiger Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian/Warshaper/Champion of Gwynharwyf with a Vow of Poverty. The other player started out with a Ranger/Rogue Bralani, but that may change, since we got TPKed the first time out by a barbarian Bugbear and some Orcs (we were level 3). DM's still working out our exact power level, it doesn't seem to be as high as his first estimate. Just thought I'd share, since this is by far the most exotic campaign and character I've ever done.
Yuffie 07-28-04, 09:38 AM	Originally posted by Beamup and in fact, all magical healing undid itself, That opens itself up to a paradoxical situation, because healing isn't some kind of "permanent enchantment" that can be dispelled by the non-presence of magic, otherwise any seasoned adventurer would explode in a ball of guts and blood the moment they stepped into a field of anti-magic. We're playing Gestalt characters :confused: I know what "gestalt" means, but that's not what we have here unless I'm mis-reading something. Perhaps you could explain what you mean by "gestalt"? Exalted Feral Half-Celestial Natural Weretiger Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian/Warshaper/Champion of Gwynharwyf with a Vow of Poverty. ... Just thought I'd share, since this is by far the most exotic campaign and character I've ever done. I'm not sure what to say. I mean. Um. I'm not saying you aren't having fun, but... it just seems to be like it's too wacky and random and doesn't really make enough sense to be the kind of thing I could get into.
Beamup 07-28-04, 09:46 AM	Originally posted by Yuffie That opens itself up to a paradoxical situation, because healing isn't some kind of "permanent enchantment" that can be dispelled by the non-presence of magic, otherwise any seasoned adventurer would explode in a ball of guts and blood the moment they stepped into a field of anti-magic. That was my first reaction. Apparently there's a bit more to it than the obvious, but we don't know exactly what yet. I know what "gestalt" means, but that's not what we have here unless I'm mis-reading something. Perhaps you could explain what you mean by "gestalt"? Basically, every time you level up you pick two classes to level up in and get the benefits of both. So a Barbarian/Rogue gestalt would get a Barbarian's BAB and HP, Rage, Sneak Attack, a Rogue's skills, etc. This is similar to that, but instead of Barbarian/Rogue, you'd have for example Feral/Barbarian. I'm not sure what to say. I mean. Um. I'm not saying you aren't having fun, but... it just seems to be like it's too wacky and random and doesn't really make enough sense to be the kind of thing I could get into. On the contrary, the character build fits together perfectly well when you think about it from the right angle. Exalted & Half-Celestial & a race that is "always Chaotic Good" (variant of the normal Weretiger) are obvious fits. Feral, Weretiger, and Barbarian are an obvious match, as is Warshaper. Exalted Barbarian -> CoG. Basically, I started out to make a weretiger who serves the cause of Good by tearing Evil into really tiny pieces with great ferocity. Everything followed from that.
Yuffie 07-28-04, 09:52 AM	Originally posted by Beamup That was my first reaction. Apparently there's a bit more to it than the obvious, but we don't know exactly what yet. If that's the case then it could be interesting. Basically, every time you level up you pick two classes to level up in and get the benefits of both. So a Barbarian/Rogue gestalt would get a Barbarian's BAB and HP, Rage, Sneak Attack, a Rogue's skills, etc. This is similar to that, but instead of Barbarian/Rogue, you'd have for example Feral/Barbarian. I'm still not sure I understand the reasoning behind it, or why you'd have "Feral / Barbarian"... you'd have a Barbague. A Roguarian. Is there any particular reason the DM is doing this? On the contrary, the character build fits together perfectly well when you think about it from the right angle. I'm partly talking about the setting though. As for the character though, I dunno. It just seems like too much munch crammed into too little kin. I guess I just don't see why people want to play characters like that. It seems just... over the top powerful? I guess. I'm all for unusual races being allowed as characters, but it just... seems like the character is... well, I dunno. It's hard to look at it because I don't know what the rationale for the whole "gestalt" thing is. Not saying you're a bad player... I'm just... :confused: I think the question is, 'why?'.
Beamup 07-28-04, 09:57 AM	Originally posted by Yuffie I'm still not sure I understand the reasoning behind it, or why you'd have "Feral / Barbarian"... you'd have a Barbague. A Roguarian. Is there any particular reason the DM is doing this? The gestalt is to make a two-character party more viable - it's really too small to be effective normally. Two gestalt characters can't quite do the work of four normal characters, but they do much better than two normal characters. The half-monster part is just to do something different. I'm partly talking about the setting though. What in particular do you mean? To me it seems perfectly consistent and reasonable. As for the character though, I dunno. It just seems like too much munch crammed into too little kin. I guess I just don't see why people want to play characters like that. It seems just... over the top powerful? I guess. I'm all for unusual races being allowed as characters, but it just... seems like the character is... well, I dunno. It's hard to look at it because I don't know what the rationale for the whole "gestalt" thing is. That's what you get when you are required to have 15 levels of templates/monster HD, with class levels on top of it. The whole point is to be unusual. The "why" is because normally the most exotic characters we use may be a monster race with class levels (a Pseudodragon Ranger, for example). This time we wanted to do something different.
Yuffie 07-28-04, 10:05 AM	Originally posted by Beamup The gestalt is to make a two-character party more viable - it's really too small to be effective normally. Two gestalt characters can't quite do the work of four normal characters, but they do much better than two normal characters. The half-monster part is just to do something different. Oh, ok, that makes some sense then. What in particular do you mean? To me it seems perfectly consistent and reasonable. If I was to explain it'd come across as insulting. I'll try, anyway. I'm not saying any of this actually applies to you or your campaign, so... with that said, this is why it just kind of rubs me the wrong way. Suffice it to say I've seen this same idea (from what you're describing, more or less) done before way too many times... and I've never really seen it run in a way that's interesting. It sounds like the kind of campaigns friends of mine created when they were 15 or so and everything was so new and they just wanted to run the wackiest adventures imaginable and create totally unusual world settings... the most common of which was the post-apocalyptic setting (which has rarely been done well). It never really winds up making sense. That's what you get when you are required to have 15 levels of templates/monster HD, with class levels on top of it. The whole point is to be unusual. I just don't see the point in being unusual just to be unusual. You later said that it's because you've never tried this before and so it's fun because it's new. I'm not saying you aren't having fun. I guess I'm saying that for a lot of players (like myself), we've already been through that phase and the idea of it just isn't really appealing. But I'm glad you're having fun.
Beamup 07-28-04, 10:07 AM	It may make more sense if I explain how I got to that build. I started with the ferocious Exalted Weretiger as an interesting concept I wanted to try out. Weretiger is only 9 levels, we were supposed to have more. So I started template-shopping. Half-Celestial appealed to me because it worked in perfectly with the Exalted angle, especially when adventuring with a full celestial. Feral (houseruled to LA+2 instead of +1) was an obvious choice for the "ferocity" angle of the character. Feral is mechanically nice, but Half-Celestial really doesn't synergize mechanically too well with the rest of the character. Then I started picking classes. Barbarian is an obvious one for the "ferocity" angle. Fighter for a couple extra feats. Warshaper is very fitting for a combat-oriented shapeshifter, and Champion of Gwynharwyf is an exceedingly appropriate choice for a CG Exalted Barbarian-type. Put all that together, I find I'll have to take a level of something else at 20. Slap in Ranger because nothing else comes to mind. See what I mean? It all comes in 100% naturally from picking classes and templates to reflect the "ferocious exalted shapeshifter" character.
Beamup 07-28-04, 10:09 AM	Originally posted by Yuffie Suffice it to say I've seen this same idea (from what you're describing, more or less) done before way too many times... and I've never really seen it run in a way that's interesting. It sounds like the kind of campaigns friends of mine created when they were 15 or so and everything was so new and they just wanted to run the wackiest adventures imaginable and create totally unusual world settings... the most common of which was the post-apocalyptic setting (which has rarely been done well). It never really winds up making sense. With most DMs, I'd agree with you. This one is quite good, and I trust him to make it work well. And so far, he has. I just don't see the point in being unusual just to be unusual. You later said that it's because you've never tried this before and so it's fun because it's new. I'm not saying you aren't having fun. I guess I'm saying that for a lot of players (like myself), we've already been through that phase and the idea of it just isn't really appealing. But I'm glad you're having fun. Not "never," just not usually. And it's not fun because it's new or different, it's just different. The campaign itself would be just as fun with more standard characters, we just felt like doing something different this time around. Edit: Oh yes, forgot to mention... We rolled standard 4d6 drop 1 for stats. I rolled 16, 15, 14, 14, 14, 14. That's a 42 point buy. (And at that, it's worse than the last time I rolled for stats... that time was a 43 point.)