"Spendable" Experience Points?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Spendable" Experience Points?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sollmn
04-06-05, 05:58 PM Two associates of mine came up with the following (see 2nd post) for a game they are in, that I am not in. A player in a game I am in has tentatively suggested we look at this too.

My first impression is that it is too easily abused, would need too much work to make balanced, and is unnecessary anyway. Other people I play with might think this might be fun, and I would like to convince them otherwise.

What do other people think? What would be someone's primary way of abusing this? Assuming I have to, how should I best argue against this?
sollmn
04-06-05, 06:00 PM This is a method of generating "spendable" experience points (hereafter abbreviated sXP's) for use with spells that have an XP cost. Making magic items still costs no XP's since this benefits the whole party.

Upon reaching level n, a character is granted 25*n sXP's. When we were raised up to 14th level, each character gained 25*14 = 350 sXP's. Since no one has spent any of these yet. Each 14th level character has:
25+50+75+100+125+150+...+325+350 = 2625 sXP's.
At 15th level, you will gain another 375, making this total a nice, round 3000 sXP's.

For classes that have no use for spendable XP's, you may spend them on
the following:

• 1 skill point costs 200 sXP's
• 1 hit point costs 250 sXP's
• +1 to any single save costs 1000 sXP's
• 1 feat costs 1500 sXP's
• +1 to base attack costs 2000 sXP's
• 1 ability point costs 3000 sXP's
• progression in class ability (see below, not yet DM approved)

Notes:
• You may not "unspend" these points to trade up for higher abilities. You can track your unspent sXP's in the upper right corner of my character sheet design.
• You may not go over the skill rank limit for your level, which is level+3 for regular skills, half that for cross class skills.
• You may not exceed your maximum hit points (the total you would get if every die you rolled were at maximum)
• A feat can raise a single save by +2 (costs 1500 sXP's), but these feats do not stack, so raising a save beyond this requires spending 1000 sXP's per 1 point increase.
• To select a feat, you still must have the prerequisites.
• Class progressions may be improved at the DM's option. For example: (J has not yet okayed these, so ask him to be sure)
• Additional +1 bonus on any single favored enemy (ranger only) [500 sXP's].
• +d6 sneak attack damage (class must have sneak attack already) [1500 sXP's].
• Additional spell slot [250 sXP's per level, so an extra 4th level slot costs 1000 sXP's; you must already be able to cast spells of one level higher that the slot you take, so if you can cast only up to second level spells, you can only spend sXP's to get 0-level or first level spells slots. A 0-level spell slot costs 125 sXP's]
• Additional monk unarmed damage (to next higher category) [1000 sXP's]
• Submit your ideas for DM consideration, but remember, many advanceable class features are already feats, like extra turning, extra rage, skill mastery, etc.

Note: This is a transcription of their email, and not my own words. I post it, however, as reference.
Art_Tillary
04-06-05, 07:55 PM It sounds like it is free XP. You are making the fighters stronger for feats vs the spell casters using this XP for spells.

You are also raising the ECL of the characters. If you have a way of adding that in to the ECL calcs it wouldn't matter.

AT
UltimateReality
04-06-05, 08:33 PM Seems unneccessarily complicated to me...why not just use the core rules? There's a reason, too, that skill points, hit die, saves, and class abilities aren't more variable: the way they are now provides some semblence of, overall, game balance. If you want a high-powered campaign, cool, but I personally would not use such a system myself...well, not on a serious campaign at first.

Actually, the more I think of it, the more it intrigues me. Maybe I'll wave this under my DM's nose and see what he thinks. I generally operate under the principle of "the rules are already complicated enough; why add more?" He likes to try funky stuff a lot.
Dhar Sedai
04-08-05, 04:29 AM It sounds like it is free XP. You are making the fighters stronger for feats vs the spell casters using this XP for spells.

You are also raising the ECL of the characters. If you have a way of adding that in to the ECL calcs it wouldn't matter.

AT

I thought of it as if you gained less xp, but gained the xp amount you lost as sXP...:P
Salla
04-08-05, 11:19 PM This is a variant of the way things are done in the HERO system. You recieve XP (typically 2 to 3) for a game, and spend it on things; the difference being, you have a point-based character construction as well, so you're not having to 'invent' point costs for things like in the second post. For example, 1 point of Strength costs 1 character point, so when you buy your Strength up later, you spend (say) 5 XP, and get 5 more points of Strength. Skills, powers, etc. all work the same way.

It's a good system, but it doesn't really work unless everything is point-based.
Nuntius128
04-09-05, 05:47 PM I thought of something like this, myself, but really, I think the only way to balance it would to allow it for skills, and possibly feats. For example, using the variant rule on training to earn skill points. Basically(I haven't done any fleshing out of details, or anything) you can pay someone of the Expert class to let you gain EXP towards skill ranks, but only for class-skills, for example. It would assist multiclassing characters, or ones with lower Intelligence to get more out of skills.

However, I think feats may unbalance that by a large margin, given the general sway feats can hold.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sollmn 04-06-05, 05:58 PM	Two associates of mine came up with the following (see 2nd post) for a game they are in, that I am not in. A player in a game I am in has tentatively suggested we look at this too. My first impression is that it is too easily abused, would need too much work to make balanced, and is unnecessary anyway. Other people I play with might think this might be fun, and I would like to convince them otherwise. What do other people think? What would be someone's primary way of abusing this? Assuming I have to, how should I best argue against this?
sollmn 04-06-05, 06:00 PM	This is a method of generating "spendable" experience points (hereafter abbreviated sXP's) for use with spells that have an XP cost. Making magic items still costs no XP's since this benefits the whole party. Upon reaching level n, a character is granted 25n sXP's. When we were raised up to 14th level, each character gained 2514 = 350 sXP's. Since no one has spent any of these yet. Each 14th level character has: 25+50+75+100+125+150+...+325+350 = 2625 sXP's. At 15th level, you will gain another 375, making this total a nice, round 3000 sXP's. For classes that have no use for spendable XP's, you may spend them on the following: • 1 skill point costs 200 sXP's • 1 hit point costs 250 sXP's • +1 to any single save costs 1000 sXP's • 1 feat costs 1500 sXP's • +1 to base attack costs 2000 sXP's • 1 ability point costs 3000 sXP's • progression in class ability (see below, not yet DM approved) Notes: • You may not "unspend" these points to trade up for higher abilities. You can track your unspent sXP's in the upper right corner of my character sheet design. • You may not go over the skill rank limit for your level, which is level+3 for regular skills, half that for cross class skills. • You may not exceed your maximum hit points (the total you would get if every die you rolled were at maximum) • A feat can raise a single save by +2 (costs 1500 sXP's), but these feats do not stack, so raising a save beyond this requires spending 1000 sXP's per 1 point increase. • To select a feat, you still must have the prerequisites. • Class progressions may be improved at the DM's option. For example: (J has not yet okayed these, so ask him to be sure) • Additional +1 bonus on any single favored enemy (ranger only) [500 sXP's]. • +d6 sneak attack damage (class must have sneak attack already) [1500 sXP's]. • Additional spell slot [250 sXP's per level, so an extra 4th level slot costs 1000 sXP's; you must already be able to cast spells of one level higher that the slot you take, so if you can cast only up to second level spells, you can only spend sXP's to get 0-level or first level spells slots. A 0-level spell slot costs 125 sXP's] • Additional monk unarmed damage (to next higher category) [1000 sXP's] • Submit your ideas for DM consideration, but remember, many advanceable class features are already feats, like extra turning, extra rage, skill mastery, etc. Note: This is a transcription of their email, and not my own words. I post it, however, as reference.
Art_Tillary 04-06-05, 07:55 PM	It sounds like it is free XP. You are making the fighters stronger for feats vs the spell casters using this XP for spells. You are also raising the ECL of the characters. If you have a way of adding that in to the ECL calcs it wouldn't matter. AT
UltimateReality 04-06-05, 08:33 PM	Seems unneccessarily complicated to me...why not just use the core rules? There's a reason, too, that skill points, hit die, saves, and class abilities aren't more variable: the way they are now provides some semblence of, overall, game balance. If you want a high-powered campaign, cool, but I personally would not use such a system myself...well, not on a serious campaign at first. Actually, the more I think of it, the more it intrigues me. Maybe I'll wave this under my DM's nose and see what he thinks. I generally operate under the principle of "the rules are already complicated enough; why add more?" He likes to try funky stuff a lot.
Dhar Sedai 04-08-05, 04:29 AM	It sounds like it is free XP. You are making the fighters stronger for feats vs the spell casters using this XP for spells. You are also raising the ECL of the characters. If you have a way of adding that in to the ECL calcs it wouldn't matter. AT I thought of it as if you gained less xp, but gained the xp amount you lost as sXP...:P
Salla 04-08-05, 11:19 PM	This is a variant of the way things are done in the HERO system. You recieve XP (typically 2 to 3) for a game, and spend it on things; the difference being, you have a point-based character construction as well, so you're not having to 'invent' point costs for things like in the second post. For example, 1 point of Strength costs 1 character point, so when you buy your Strength up later, you spend (say) 5 XP, and get 5 more points of Strength. Skills, powers, etc. all work the same way. It's a good system, but it doesn't really work unless everything is point-based.
Nuntius128 04-09-05, 05:47 PM	I thought of something like this, myself, but really, I think the only way to balance it would to allow it for skills, and possibly feats. For example, using the variant rule on training to earn skill points. Basically(I haven't done any fleshing out of details, or anything) you can pay someone of the Expert class to let you gain EXP towards skill ranks, but only for class-skills, for example. It would assist multiclassing characters, or ones with lower Intelligence to get more out of skills. However, I think feats may unbalance that by a large margin, given the general sway feats can hold.