"Why should I do this?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Why should I do this?" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheBard
10-29-04, 04:41 AM This is a thread about player motivation.

Personally, I see roleplaying as playing a character and act like the character would. Others may see roleplaying as chasing the plotline, by any means neccessary, but leaving the motivations of the personified characters out.

And that's the problem: I often find that I (like "my character") just doesn't see any motivation to do stuff that's expected.

We currently play "The Lord of the Iron Fortress" and I won't give any big spoilers, but something could slip through, so you're warned.

My character is a level 15 Swashbuckler (Swa/Rog/Duelist) who is chaotic in alignment. My weapon is intelligent, sharing the same alignment as I have... and it's quite touchy. We've encountered the first creatures who love to eat weapons and they took a bite from my blade, luckily it cannot be sundered by them because the magic enhancement is too high. Anyway, my blade has absolutly no motivation to fight against these creatures, so it shuts down all its powers (flaming and some spells). My weapon surely doesn't want to go there.

The adventure takes place somewhere, where Chaotic characters are affected with headache and penalties on their cha checks. I don't like being somewhere where my head explodes, so why should I go?

If there were some "greater good" or some hefty reward, ok, whatever, but all I know is that there is a smith we've encountered who was dragged to this place and thats it. My only sole motivation for all this is to save some guy who made a sword for someone in my group once, without really knowing where to go, without the most important part of my equipment, encountering very dangerous enemies and deathtraps and without "wanting" to be in this place AT ALL.

I, as a player, want to follow the storyline and I hope that my GM tells a great story, but as a roleplayer, I don't see why my character would go there!

Do you know these problems? How would you act?
ImmortalBlueMage
10-29-04, 06:01 AM Sounds to me like this is a DM's blunder. If he didn't provide sufficient in-story motivation for your players, then he can't expect you to charge blindly into the fray. Make it clear to him that you'll need more to work with.
ck2001wendt
10-29-04, 08:28 AM I generally see D&D as a pact between the DM and the players. The DM agrees to come up with a good, reasonable session that provides the players with 4-6 hours of entertainment 1-4 times a month. The players, within reason, humor the DM and try and go along with the plot. The DM takes suggestions from the players as where the plot wants to go next. If something's not working, then the players wait until the end of a session, then tell the DM, and the DM revises his plans.

One thing that may have been lost in your not wanting to go to Acheron: Do you care about your friends? You might not want to go, but you also might not want to see your Wizard buddy eat it on some weird Lawful plane.

So your sword's not happy...big deal. Intelligent weapons were made to screw with PCs.
TommyBlack
10-29-04, 09:44 AM The way I see it, normally roleplaying supercedes anything the DM comes up with. If you're a chaotic neutral level 2 adventurer and see a poster for "adventurers wanted for suicide mission into hell" then just keep-a-walking, no matter how many pages the DM has devoted to this particular quest.

On the other hand, playing a particular module should be something prepared for by the DM and players together. You should know what kind of character would want to go in, or somehow have sufficient reason, and you should agree to try to not break the plot too much.
Ricky
10-29-04, 09:53 AM There is an excellent article in Regdar's Repository called "Playing Into The Game" that discusses this issue.

Ask yourself, "What can my character gain from this?" You're saving a smith who can make magical items, as I understand it. So if you save him, he could be very grateful and make an item for you to thank you! That sounds like a good motivation.

In addition, this smith has a connection to your friend and party member. Do this as a favor to your friend, then, since the smith is important to him. He is your friend, who may have saved your life in the past (depending on how your campaign has gone). If nothing else, you are helping a friend do something important to him.

I hope this helps.
Naeron
10-29-04, 10:36 AM I, as a player, want to follow the storyline and I hope that my GM tells a great story, but as a roleplayer, I don't see why my character would go there!

Do you know these problems? How would you act?

If you cannot see any reason why the character would be motivated to do something that is a good indication that they wouldn't. As a Player I'd have my PC state he doesn't want to get involved.

As a DM if I dangle a plot in front of the party and they decide they don't want to go near it for ingame reasons it I am happy - it means that they are roleplaying - and then dangle another plot in front of them. To do otherwise would leave me in danger of trying to railroad them because I've got a cool adventure written.

If that rejected adventure has an adverse effect on things down the line thats what a living breathing campaign world is about.
kenichi
10-29-04, 11:24 AM You stated that your alignment is Chaotic, but did not state the rest of your alignment. If it is good a reason for going would be to rescue someone you know who was kidnapped on this lawful plane. As a CN character you might feel an inling to stick it to the beings on this Lawful plane who are inflicting others with capture and possibly getting a reward out of the deal. As CE you might enjoy tormenting Lawful beings and demanding the smith make you a nice reward for saving his hide.

A Lawful plane is not going to make your head explode, it is more like seasickness, if even that bad.

I have not read or played that module, so it is a little hard to give ideas. Other possible reasons could be:

You are miffed that these sword eating things tried to kill a friend of yours (the sword), and want to take the issue up with the head of thier group. If I were the sword, I would havee used all my abilities to kick the pants off of something that tried to eat me, not turn myself off.

Pure curiosity on why there is such a place that influences Chaotic beings this way and how to free any others that might be influence by it.

Without more of an explanation as to your character's personality I can't focus on ideas that would suit him.

I second the motion to check out the Redgar's "Playing into the Game" article. Very good read.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would voluntarily go through the things that adventurers go through even with a decent reason. So make up a reason that would make your character interested in going, don't leave all the work to the DM, but work with him giving him ideas and reasons to get your character into it.

Sorry for the long and rambling post.
TheBard
10-29-04, 11:55 AM You stated that your alignment is Chaotic, but did not state the rest of your alignment.
It's Chaotic Good, borderlining Neutral.

My characters attitute is arrogant. He would any day help someone who get's beaten up next to him, but I don't see him going these great lengths to save someone he -or anybody else in the group- doesn't know.

But the problem is also within my group. Maybe I'm playing alignment too drastic, since everybody else doesn't really seem to care. Even our Paladin isn't really upholding virtues but is rather a calm watcher of things.

I also don't really understand my gamemaster in this matter, I'll write him a mail about it. Concering my rapier, this would've been a perfect plot device for my character to go down there and kick some ass. Nobody messes with my stuff! But no, my rapier doesn't want to go, proving another hindrance for my character to follow the plot. That's not really helping.

Thanks for all your advice, really. But somehow it'd feel strange to make up a half-decent motivation for my character, just to justify following the plot, especially he nearly got killed twice already by these monsters. But enough rambling, I got some nice ideas here and I'll talk to my gm to sort it out.
Ricky
10-29-04, 12:27 PM I'll talk to my gm to sort it out.

And there goes the most important advice any player can follow. :)
a18ffe
10-29-04, 12:44 PM In a player perspective, your motivation is XP and treasure.

In a character perspective, plain curiosity and adventure. Not enough, how about bonding and friendship?

Don't make the DM's job harder.
Gryllmyre
10-29-04, 01:00 PM My player and I are trading back and forth DMing.

Sometimes when I get excited about something that has been building up over the past few sessions, I'll blurt out why things developed the way they did. He, on the other hand, tells me what I have to expect, so what lies ahead is given away. I don't appreciate that as a player because the effect is blown. I suppose the same thing happens when I give away how things built up. The players really should find out all these things for themselves. How is that related at all with this discussion? I dunno, I just felt like saying it.

As a player, I give myself my own motivation for playing my characters a certain way, even if the world around me doesn't want to provide those opportunities. Serving the cause and all that.

It can be hard giving players a motivation. Everyone has their own idea of how they want to play their characters and what they want to harvest from the world around them. You really have to know your players and cooperate with how they want to interact with the world, as long as it remains fun for everyone involved.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheBard 10-29-04, 04:41 AM	This is a thread about player motivation. Personally, I see roleplaying as playing a character and act like the character would. Others may see roleplaying as chasing the plotline, by any means neccessary, but leaving the motivations of the personified characters out. And that's the problem: I often find that I (like "my character") just doesn't see any motivation to do stuff that's expected. We currently play "The Lord of the Iron Fortress" and I won't give any big spoilers, but something could slip through, so you're warned. My character is a level 15 Swashbuckler (Swa/Rog/Duelist) who is chaotic in alignment. My weapon is intelligent, sharing the same alignment as I have... and it's quite touchy. We've encountered the first creatures who love to eat weapons and they took a bite from my blade, luckily it cannot be sundered by them because the magic enhancement is too high. Anyway, my blade has absolutly no motivation to fight against these creatures, so it shuts down all its powers (flaming and some spells). My weapon surely doesn't want to go there. The adventure takes place somewhere, where Chaotic characters are affected with headache and penalties on their cha checks. I don't like being somewhere where my head explodes, so why should I go? If there were some "greater good" or some hefty reward, ok, whatever, but all I know is that there is a smith we've encountered who was dragged to this place and thats it. My only sole motivation for all this is to save some guy who made a sword for someone in my group once, without really knowing where to go, without the most important part of my equipment, encountering very dangerous enemies and deathtraps and without "wanting" to be in this place AT ALL. I, as a player, want to follow the storyline and I hope that my GM tells a great story, but as a roleplayer, I don't see why my character would go there! Do you know these problems? How would you act?
ImmortalBlueMage 10-29-04, 06:01 AM	Sounds to me like this is a DM's blunder. If he didn't provide sufficient in-story motivation for your players, then he can't expect you to charge blindly into the fray. Make it clear to him that you'll need more to work with.
ck2001wendt 10-29-04, 08:28 AM	I generally see D&D as a pact between the DM and the players. The DM agrees to come up with a good, reasonable session that provides the players with 4-6 hours of entertainment 1-4 times a month. The players, within reason, humor the DM and try and go along with the plot. The DM takes suggestions from the players as where the plot wants to go next. If something's not working, then the players wait until the end of a session, then tell the DM, and the DM revises his plans. One thing that may have been lost in your not wanting to go to Acheron: Do you care about your friends? You might not want to go, but you also might not want to see your Wizard buddy eat it on some weird Lawful plane. So your sword's not happy...big deal. Intelligent weapons were made to screw with PCs.
TommyBlack 10-29-04, 09:44 AM	The way I see it, normally roleplaying supercedes anything the DM comes up with. If you're a chaotic neutral level 2 adventurer and see a poster for "adventurers wanted for suicide mission into hell" then just keep-a-walking, no matter how many pages the DM has devoted to this particular quest. On the other hand, playing a particular module should be something prepared for by the DM and players together. You should know what kind of character would want to go in, or somehow have sufficient reason, and you should agree to try to not break the plot too much.
Ricky 10-29-04, 09:53 AM	There is an excellent article in Regdar's Repository called "Playing Into The Game" that discusses this issue. Ask yourself, "What can my character gain from this?" You're saving a smith who can make magical items, as I understand it. So if you save him, he could be very grateful and make an item for you to thank you! That sounds like a good motivation. In addition, this smith has a connection to your friend and party member. Do this as a favor to your friend, then, since the smith is important to him. He is your friend, who may have saved your life in the past (depending on how your campaign has gone). If nothing else, you are helping a friend do something important to him. I hope this helps.
Naeron 10-29-04, 10:36 AM	I, as a player, want to follow the storyline and I hope that my GM tells a great story, but as a roleplayer, I don't see why my character would go there! Do you know these problems? How would you act? If you cannot see any reason why the character would be motivated to do something that is a good indication that they wouldn't. As a Player I'd have my PC state he doesn't want to get involved. As a DM if I dangle a plot in front of the party and they decide they don't want to go near it for ingame reasons it I am happy - it means that they are roleplaying - and then dangle another plot in front of them. To do otherwise would leave me in danger of trying to railroad them because I've got a cool adventure written. If that rejected adventure has an adverse effect on things down the line thats what a living breathing campaign world is about.
kenichi 10-29-04, 11:24 AM	You stated that your alignment is Chaotic, but did not state the rest of your alignment. If it is good a reason for going would be to rescue someone you know who was kidnapped on this lawful plane. As a CN character you might feel an inling to stick it to the beings on this Lawful plane who are inflicting others with capture and possibly getting a reward out of the deal. As CE you might enjoy tormenting Lawful beings and demanding the smith make you a nice reward for saving his hide. A Lawful plane is not going to make your head explode, it is more like seasickness, if even that bad. I have not read or played that module, so it is a little hard to give ideas. Other possible reasons could be: You are miffed that these sword eating things tried to kill a friend of yours (the sword), and want to take the issue up with the head of thier group. If I were the sword, I would havee used all my abilities to kick the pants off of something that tried to eat me, not turn myself off. Pure curiosity on why there is such a place that influences Chaotic beings this way and how to free any others that might be influence by it. Without more of an explanation as to your character's personality I can't focus on ideas that would suit him. I second the motion to check out the Redgar's "Playing into the Game" article. Very good read. I find it hard to believe that anyone would voluntarily go through the things that adventurers go through even with a decent reason. So make up a reason that would make your character interested in going, don't leave all the work to the DM, but work with him giving him ideas and reasons to get your character into it. Sorry for the long and rambling post.
TheBard 10-29-04, 11:55 AM	You stated that your alignment is Chaotic, but did not state the rest of your alignment. It's Chaotic Good, borderlining Neutral. My characters attitute is arrogant. He would any day help someone who get's beaten up next to him, but I don't see him going these great lengths to save someone he -or anybody else in the group- doesn't know. But the problem is also within my group. Maybe I'm playing alignment too drastic, since everybody else doesn't really seem to care. Even our Paladin isn't really upholding virtues but is rather a calm watcher of things. I also don't really understand my gamemaster in this matter, I'll write him a mail about it. Concering my rapier, this would've been a perfect plot device for my character to go down there and kick some ass. Nobody messes with my stuff! But no, my rapier doesn't want to go, proving another hindrance for my character to follow the plot. That's not really helping. Thanks for all your advice, really. But somehow it'd feel strange to make up a half-decent motivation for my character, just to justify following the plot, especially he nearly got killed twice already by these monsters. But enough rambling, I got some nice ideas here and I'll talk to my gm to sort it out.
Ricky 10-29-04, 12:27 PM	I'll talk to my gm to sort it out. And there goes the most important advice any player can follow. :)
a18ffe 10-29-04, 12:44 PM	In a player perspective, your motivation is XP and treasure. In a character perspective, plain curiosity and adventure. Not enough, how about bonding and friendship? Don't make the DM's job harder.
Gryllmyre 10-29-04, 01:00 PM	My player and I are trading back and forth DMing. Sometimes when I get excited about something that has been building up over the past few sessions, I'll blurt out why things developed the way they did. He, on the other hand, tells me what I have to expect, so what lies ahead is given away. I don't appreciate that as a player because the effect is blown. I suppose the same thing happens when I give away how things built up. The players really should find out all these things for themselves. How is that related at all with this discussion? I dunno, I just felt like saying it. As a player, I give myself my own motivation for playing my characters a certain way, even if the world around me doesn't want to provide those opportunities. Serving the cause and all that. It can be hard giving players a motivation. Everyone has their own idea of how they want to play their characters and what they want to harvest from the world around them. You really have to know your players and cooperate with how they want to interact with the world, as long as it remains fun for everyone involved.