Animate Dead and XP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animate Dead and XP [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xeitz
07-18-05, 07:20 AM I have a level 5 cleric of Toldoth. He's Neutral Evil and has the Death and War domains. I loved the spell Animate Dead when I first saw it and I put it to use. We were hired to clear out a warehouse of some people. Outside the warehouse we fought 12 level 1s. 12 level 1s vr 4 lvl 5s and a lvl 1 skeleton (I killed someone in the bar and animated him). Yea, we slaughtered them. After the fight I raised 10 skeletons. So we had 10 level 1 skeletons and 4 lvl 5s(I lost my 1st skele). We go into the warehouse and fight 14 level 1s again. This time it was interesting, they were stand on top of stacks of boxes 25 feet up with bows. We had a wizard who didn't have any evocation spells left, a gnome who only had a crossbow, a Raptoran(Yay!), and me, a level 5 cleric. I immediatly shatter a bottom box causing that tower to topple. My skeletons pile on the guy who fell and maul him. We win the fight with help from my skeletons, not too much help but it was there. The DM divided the XP we were gonna get by 14, 10 skeletons and the 4 players. Now normally I wouldn't mind as much and would just lay off the Animate Dead but I got 4 feats to up my undead. (2 feats from level 1, 1 from level 3, and I took a character flaw.)

So is it fair that he divides the XP among the skeletons too, especially since they won't even level?

Edit: After we killed the archers I animated 10 so I had my max HD of controlled undead and have a small phalanx. So with 20 skeletons would it still be off for the DM to penalize XP or no? (Mind you they are level 1 warriors.)
Coronat
07-18-05, 07:28 AM IMHO, its not. Your the master of the skeletons so your the one that kills the enemy with them.
I mean, a skeleton in my oppinion is nothing more then a tool (like a sword) to win the battle.

I can see that you DM thought you were winning to easy, but that is his problem because he didnt set up the right counters for some of the things that you were capable of doing.
11d7
07-18-05, 08:32 AM Dont wast your slots on human undead. Kill 2 Ogres and animate them. Its a much better move.
BloodGod
07-18-05, 09:04 AM No. The skeletons shouldn't have gotten xp. That's like giving a familiar or animal companion its own seperate xp.

-BG
Zorminster
07-18-05, 09:48 AM I definately would contend this action of the DM. The way I see it, they are temporary and wouldn't even be there without you. They have no mind of their own (you dictate their actions) and therefore are incapable of learning (which is what XP really is- a measure of learning from past actions) therefore, no xp. If he is really insistent i would still argue that it should only be XP split by 1/2 the number of skeletons.
so instead of XP / 14
go xp / (players + .4*skeletons)
or xp / 9
Rocketmonkey
07-18-05, 10:24 AM Wizards don't get less XP for challenges overcome with summoned monsters, so you could argue it's inconsistent and unfair to treat a necromancer's skeletons any differently.

However... if the DM's dividing XP among the skeletons then that means--pretty much by definition--that they're capable of learning, adapting and above all levelling up. If that's the route you're DM wants to take then hey, go for it.
Phrennzy
07-18-05, 11:41 AM I have read many things on these boards, and I can usually tell where the story is going and what the question will be.

This caught me completely off guard.

Counting the skeletons as party member for XP is so totally wrong. It makes me laugh at the absurdity.

The DM is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Wrongity wrong wrong.

Familiars, summoned monsters, animated dead - none of that counts for XP award calculations.

If he insists that they are, then you should destroy your skeletons in the last round of combat. You can make more from the bodies of the fallen.

Aside: You ARE carrying around a bunch of black onyxes, right? 25gp per skeleton is a hell of a price...
Pryrates
07-18-05, 01:25 PM Tell your DM sorry but it doesnt work that way, just like if your party was fighting a wizard who cast summon monster you would only receive the xp for killing the wizard not what was conjured as that is figured out already in the wizard's cr and thus the xp earned from defeating him. you guys should only be spliting the xp between the party members not your skeletons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeitz 07-18-05, 07:20 AM	I have a level 5 cleric of Toldoth. He's Neutral Evil and has the Death and War domains. I loved the spell Animate Dead when I first saw it and I put it to use. We were hired to clear out a warehouse of some people. Outside the warehouse we fought 12 level 1s. 12 level 1s vr 4 lvl 5s and a lvl 1 skeleton (I killed someone in the bar and animated him). Yea, we slaughtered them. After the fight I raised 10 skeletons. So we had 10 level 1 skeletons and 4 lvl 5s(I lost my 1st skele). We go into the warehouse and fight 14 level 1s again. This time it was interesting, they were stand on top of stacks of boxes 25 feet up with bows. We had a wizard who didn't have any evocation spells left, a gnome who only had a crossbow, a Raptoran(Yay!), and me, a level 5 cleric. I immediatly shatter a bottom box causing that tower to topple. My skeletons pile on the guy who fell and maul him. We win the fight with help from my skeletons, not too much help but it was there. The DM divided the XP we were gonna get by 14, 10 skeletons and the 4 players. Now normally I wouldn't mind as much and would just lay off the Animate Dead but I got 4 feats to up my undead. (2 feats from level 1, 1 from level 3, and I took a character flaw.) So is it fair that he divides the XP among the skeletons too, especially since they won't even level? Edit: After we killed the archers I animated 10 so I had my max HD of controlled undead and have a small phalanx. So with 20 skeletons would it still be off for the DM to penalize XP or no? (Mind you they are level 1 warriors.)
Coronat 07-18-05, 07:28 AM	IMHO, its not. Your the master of the skeletons so your the one that kills the enemy with them. I mean, a skeleton in my oppinion is nothing more then a tool (like a sword) to win the battle. I can see that you DM thought you were winning to easy, but that is his problem because he didnt set up the right counters for some of the things that you were capable of doing.
11d7 07-18-05, 08:32 AM	Dont wast your slots on human undead. Kill 2 Ogres and animate them. Its a much better move.
BloodGod 07-18-05, 09:04 AM	No. The skeletons shouldn't have gotten xp. That's like giving a familiar or animal companion its own seperate xp. -BG
Zorminster 07-18-05, 09:48 AM	I definately would contend this action of the DM. The way I see it, they are temporary and wouldn't even be there without you. They have no mind of their own (you dictate their actions) and therefore are incapable of learning (which is what XP really is- a measure of learning from past actions) therefore, no xp. If he is really insistent i would still argue that it should only be XP split by 1/2 the number of skeletons. so instead of XP / 14 go xp / (players + .4*skeletons) or xp / 9
Rocketmonkey 07-18-05, 10:24 AM	Wizards don't get less XP for challenges overcome with summoned monsters, so you could argue it's inconsistent and unfair to treat a necromancer's skeletons any differently. However... if the DM's dividing XP among the skeletons then that means--pretty much by definition--that they're capable of learning, adapting and above all levelling up. If that's the route you're DM wants to take then hey, go for it.
Phrennzy 07-18-05, 11:41 AM	I have read many things on these boards, and I can usually tell where the story is going and what the question will be. This caught me completely off guard. Counting the skeletons as party member for XP is so totally wrong. It makes me laugh at the absurdity. The DM is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Wrongity wrong wrong. Familiars, summoned monsters, animated dead - none of that counts for XP award calculations. If he insists that they are, then you should destroy your skeletons in the last round of combat. You can make more from the bodies of the fallen. Aside: You ARE carrying around a bunch of black onyxes, right? 25gp per skeleton is a hell of a price...
Pryrates 07-18-05, 01:25 PM	Tell your DM sorry but it doesnt work that way, just like if your party was fighting a wizard who cast summon monster you would only receive the xp for killing the wizard not what was conjured as that is figured out already in the wizard's cr and thus the xp earned from defeating him. you guys should only be spliting the xp between the party members not your skeletons.