Post/Author/DateTime	Post
entropysoda 04-02-04, 12:44 PM	My PC is a 15th lvl cleric of Wee Jas. I captured a vampire (14th lvl monk), and want to control him. The problem is: I need a way to keep him stunned or held, while I cast control undead on him like 20-30 times (to guarantee it, using the armor of command undead). I remember there being a hold undead spell But I can't seem to find it!? Please help...thanks!
Krelios 04-02-04, 12:45 PM	Um. Turn him. I assume that if you want to control him you're rebuking undead.
entropysoda 04-02-04, 12:49 PM	Um. Turn him. I assume that if you want to control him you're rebuking undead. Did you read my post? I am using the armor to do it! The problem with rebuking is that I have to roll really high to get him (14 + 4 turn resist = 18) so that is not an option. I need a spell or such to keep him immobile. Or possibly, some item? Currently, he is "slain" due to a stake in his heart. As soon as I remove it, he will come back to unlife, and probably attack...
JamesDruidDM 04-02-04, 02:17 PM	A wooned stake in the heart will hold him still I promise that, and it wont kill him :) so says the monster manual. so heres my suggestion Stake the bastard (to a wall would be good) Then get control of him as he is unconcious Remove the stake
entropysoda 04-02-04, 02:31 PM	Stake the bastard (to a wall would be good) I tried this. Unfortunately, while staked, the vampire is "slain", which my DM said means any spells have no effect (such as Control Undead). and it wont kill him so says the monster manual Actually, it says "Driving a wooden stake through a vampire’s heart instantly slays the monster. " slays = killed
Dartanel 04-02-04, 02:59 PM	The key here is to find a way to deal a massive amount of wisdom damage (not wisdom drain, else a simple summoned allip would suffice) Dropping the vampire's wisdom to 0 will provide the double duty of incapacitating it without killing it and also tank its will save making command undead much more likely.
Ograbme 04-02-04, 03:31 PM	Put it in a cage?
entropysoda 04-02-04, 05:56 PM	A cage?... yeah right. Alternate Form (Su): A vampire can assume the shape of a bat, dire bat, wolf, or dire wolf as a standard action. This ability is similar to a polymorph spell cast by a 12th-level character, except that the vampire does not regain hit points for changing form and must choose from among the forms mentioned here. While in its alternate form, the vampire loses its natural slam attack and dominate ability, but it gains the natural weapons and extraordinary special attacks of its new form. It can remain in that form until it assumes another or until the next sunrise. (If the base creature is not terrestrial, this power might allow other forms.) Gaseous Form (Su): As a standard action, a vampire can assume gaseous form at will as the spell (caster level 5th), but it can remain gaseous indefinitely and has a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability.
Ander00 04-02-04, 05:58 PM	entropysoda beat me to stating that cage + vampire = gaseous form. So back to your question: the hold undead spell is called 'Halt Undead', is a 3rd level spell that doesn't allow a save every round the way Hold Person does but it ends when the undead is attacked. cheers
Nameless One Jr. 04-02-04, 06:06 PM	Originally posted by entropysoda My PC is a 15th lvl cleric of Wee Jas. I captured a vampire (14th lvl monk), and want to control him. The problem is: I need a way to keep him stunned or held, while I cast control undead on him like 20-30 times (to guarantee it, using the armor of command undead). I remember there being a hold undead spell But I can't seem to find it!? Please help...thanks! It's called halt undead now, if I'm not mistaken. He'll probably make the Will save though... Just out of curiosity, how did you capture him? Usually a vampire's gaseous form will get him out of almost anywhere...
entropysoda 04-03-04, 02:12 AM	Being a 15th lvl cleric, I simply rebuked him. He was trying to kill us, but I got him on the 2nd try of rebuking... Thanks, halt undead is good. Will let you know if it works. This is the plan. If my math is off, let me know.... Step 0) Cast Bestow curse: I curse vampire to -4 to -6 to all saves vs. spells cast by me only (permanent) Each day: Right before dawn (say, 5 rounds): Step 1)I order him to fail all his saves (allowed), order him to lower spell resistance, 2) cast HALT UNDEAD (from item or wizard pal), this will ALWAYS SUCCEED. 3) Control undead using armor 14x (chance of him not being controlled = (at most, assuming he ONLY fails on a 1 or 2) = 22%), percentage is much less if he fails on additional rolls, say 3, 4,5 etc. (likely) FYI, percentage is: [# die sides where he saves successfully] (------------------------------------------------------) 20 Raised to the 14th power. -So example (18/20) Raised to the 14th = approx .22, or 22 percent chance of him NOT being controlled 4) if still not controlled, repeat steps 2-3.
Thermanshs 04-03-04, 02:41 AM	Originally posted by entropysoda A cage?... yeah right. Right...only with the word force- before the cage ;) Try find a wizard cast it for you,if there's one in your party he should be able to get this as it's a 7th lvl spell....and you'll be able to rebuke him much more than 20-30 times :)
entropysoda 04-03-04, 02:52 AM	Yes, i thought of forcecage, but look at the material component! I'll probably use it the 1st time (forcecaging him in with me),but money's too tight to use it every time...
entropysoda 04-03-04, 04:27 PM	Is there a way to cast spells into a forcecage? B/C I'd rather not be in there with him.... I just really need to keep him from going gaseous....
sparkster4242 04-04-04, 01:01 AM	Charm/Dominate Monster and Control Undead spells dont benefit from turn-resistance. of course, you would need an arcane caster who could force through the vampire's will save... Magic Circle against Evil can be used to contain the beast, as long as it gets through any spell-resistance he may have. of course, tis a relatively short duration.
entropysoda 04-04-04, 06:51 AM	Magic Circle against Evil can be used to contain the beast, I thought this only worked on "called creatures" (i.e. Not Vampires)?! "This spell has an alternative version that you may choose when casting it. A magic circle against evil can be focused inward rather than outward. When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood called creature (such as those called by the lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding spells) for a maximum of 24 hours per caster level, provided that you cast the spell that calls the creature within 1 round of casting the magic circle. The creature cannot cross the circle’s boundaries. If a creature too large to fit into the spell’s area is the subject of the spell, the spell acts as a normal protection from evil spell for that creature only."
Nameless One Jr. 04-04-04, 12:46 PM	Originally posted by sparkster4242 Charm/Dominate Monster These won't work...undead are immune to mind-effecting spells and compulsions, unless otherwise stated in the spell.
entropysoda 04-10-04, 12:45 AM	Originally posted by entropysoda Being a 15th lvl cleric, I simply rebuked him. He was trying to kill us, but I got him on the 2nd try of rebuking... Thanks, halt undead is good. Will let you know if it works. This is the plan. If my math is off, let me know.... Step 0) Cast Bestow curse: I curse vampire to -4 to -6 to all saves vs. spells cast by me only (permanent) Each day: Right before dawn (say, 5 rounds): Step 1)I order him to fail all his saves (allowed), order him to lower spell resistance, 2) cast HALT UNDEAD (from item or wizard pal), this will ALWAYS SUCCEED. 3) Control undead using armor 14x (chance of him not being controlled = (at most, assuming he ONLY fails on a 1 or 2) = 22%), percentage is much less if he fails on additional rolls, say 3, 4,5 etc. (likely) FYI, percentage is: [# die sides where he saves successfully] (------------------------------------------------------) 20 Raised to the 14th power. -So example (18/20) Raised to the 14th = approx .22, or 22 percent chance of him NOT being controlled 4) if still not controlled, repeat steps 2-3. Worked! Done last session...vampire orc monk is mine!!!
Willie the Duck 04-10-04, 08:31 PM	Originally posted by Dartanel The key here is to find a way to deal a massive amount of wisdom damage (not wisdom drain, else a simple summoned allip would suffice) Dropping the vampire's wisdom to 0 will provide the double duty of incapacitating it without killing it and also tank its will save making command undead much more likely. undead are immune to ability damage.
Dartanel 04-10-04, 11:06 PM	Originally posted by Willie the Duck undead are immune to ability damage. Only physical ability damage. they're completely immune to ability drain, however.
Finwe 04-11-04, 12:21 AM	Originally posted by entropysoda Yes, i thought of forcecage, but look at the material component! I'll probably use it the 1st time (forcecaging him in with me),but money's too tight to use it every time... Personaly, I think that 1,500 gp is well worth it if it means that you get to control a level 14 vampire! Probably less expensive than your armor in fact...