Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kalstrand 05-23-05, 01:28 AM	Not sure if this is the best place but here it goes. An advanced great wyrm black dragon has taken it upon itself to befriend our party. Which so far hasn't been a problem to us and there really isn't anything we could do about it anyway. Shortly we are suppsoed to accompany him in his fight with a great wyrm red dragon. We are low enough level that we will basically be spectators because we have no way of overcoming their spell resistance and our fighter will only have a chance to hit their ac on a 19 or 20. After some thought we have decided that its going to be a really nasty fight no matter which dragon wins. We decided if its to the point that 1 dragon is dead and the other nearly dead we want to finish the job. What I need help with is what is the best way to get our fighter true strike. We were going to have the mage load up with them to cast on the fighter until we looked at the spell and found it has a target of you. Ideally we would like the fighter to be able to use the full attack option. So my question is there anyone who knows a way to make this happen. If we can't come up with any better way we can simply load up on potions and he can drink the potion as a move action and attack with a standard action.
Minias 05-23-05, 01:59 AM	If we can't come up with any better way we can simply load up on potions and he can drink the potion as a move action and attack with a standard action. Be careful with this idea. If you are in a square threatened by the dragon then drinking a potion will provoke an attack of opportunity. Otherwise, I think we'd need a better description of your group of PCs to give any real advice. Classes? Levels? Equipment?
kalstrand 05-23-05, 02:34 AM	Ah good point about the potion provoking an attack of opprotunity. We are extremely overpowered for out level first off. Currently the party consists of: 5 fighter/ 3 dervish using oversize 2 weapon fighting to use 2 bastard swords. +4 wounding maiming bastard sword of speed +3 wounding vampiric dragon bane bastard sword celestial armor helm of brilliance 1 fighter/7 wizard chosen of mystra and spellfire wielder feat 8 ranger that for reasons unknown to the party is almost useless 6 cleric that as long as he doesnt try to do anything but be a healing battery isn't too bad 7 or 8 monk 7 or 8 psion I'm not totally sure of the eq the rest of the party but I play the fighter. Also as a note all have some non-standard abilities. It was due to a quest the wizard got the chosen of mystra, fighter 10 feats, ranger a hippogryff (sp) animal companion, monk has some tattoos from the tattooed monk prestige class, cleric took bonus spell slots per day but not sure how many. Not sure what the psion took for his abilities. Also I'm not sure the ac the dragons have but I might be able to hit on more than just the 19 or 20 assumed earlier especially if I dance. But a better option might be to use spring attack to leap in attack and leap out of a threatened area to drink the potion, but if I use spring attack I won't be able to use my dervish dance option. Ranger should stand a chance to hit also because he has a +4 dragonbane longsword and first favored enemy is dragon.
McAbendroth 05-23-05, 03:41 AM	The Psion might be able to help out with dealing damage. If they took the Overchannel feat the could boost their effective manifester level up to help get past Spell Resistance. Or if your playing the psionics is different variant then there's no need for the psion to worry about a dragons spell resistance since psionic powers aren't affected by it. As for everyone else have them in there fighting too. Everyone should be able to get some damage in on a roll of a 20. Even if not it provides more targets for the dragon to deal with then a lone fighter. Could save you in (hopefully) forcing the dragon to spread out attacks instead of concentrating them all on you. For the spell casters look at what spells they have access to. Prepair as many useful ones that don't allow spell resistance or at least no saving throw. Spells just might get through the spell resistance and if they do it's nice to have them not have a saving throw attached to them. Remember that touch attacks are much easier to make then normal attacks. If your going to stick to sending one person in for the fighting then it would be best for the spellcasters to prepair spells that would benefit the fighters survival. Blur to give some mischance when attacked. Energy resistance for when the dragon can use a breath attack. If the Ranger has a high enough wisdom to cast 2nd level spells (high enough to get it as a bonus spell that is) Barkskin will help with giving a +2 natural AC bonus. As for Spring Attack and Dervish dance I don't see why you can't use them at the same time. If you can tumble during the dance you should be able to Spring Attack, just need to end up in a different square then you started in. Unless I read it wrong that should work.
Minias 05-23-05, 03:47 AM	I just noticed that you said the combatants would be an advanced black great wyrm and a red great wyrm! The size catagory for the red is at least colossal which means its reach is at least 20 ft (30 ft with bite). So likely might need to find some way to increase your movement if you still plan on using the quaff_potion/spring_attack/quaff_potion/... tactic. A weakness that you might try to exploit is that because they are so large that they have an exceptionally poor touch AC. Most importantly, both of these dragons outclass your group by leaps and bounds. You better hope that your black dragon benefactor wins this fight, else I believe it to be curtains for you and your friends. I wish I could help, but I don't see any real way that your group could possibly defeat at CR26 dragon. Good luck.
Critical Mass 05-23-05, 07:57 AM	Best bet would probably be Lahm's Finger Darts (BoVD) combined with Shivering Touch (Frostburn). Except for the fact that you'll never beat its spell resistance. Nevermind.
Bael the Bard 05-23-05, 09:42 AM	See if you can buy brilliant energy weapons, they ignore all armor and go on the touch ac, a dragon that big has an ac of about 41-45 but a touch ac of about 6-8. If enough commoners had brilliant energy weapons they could kill dragons. And if your dm won't give you brilliant energy then why did he already give you an epic or nearly epic weapon. Lets see +4/wounding=+2/Maiming?/speed=3 thats +9 so far I don't know the enchantment of maiming but if its +1 you have a sword with a +10 enhancement and if its a +2 you have a weapon thats +11 and epic. Just one question how did an 8th lv party come across a choatic EVIL great black wrym and become buddies? :confused:
cvazi 05-23-05, 09:52 AM	brilliant energy does not bypass natural armor
Bael the Bard 05-23-05, 10:57 AM	Your right I misread, damn then I got nothin :( lv 8 vs aprox cr 26+ I've never tried to take on something 20 lvs higher than me before the most i've done is 10 higher. well good luck, hope you win the experience should be great, so should the horde, if its a TPK tell us what happens anyway.
MrkGrismer 05-23-05, 11:28 AM	What I need help with is what is the best way to get our fighter true strike. We were going to have the mage load up with them to cast on the fighter until we looked at the spell and found it has a target of you. Ideally we would like the fighter to be able to use the full attack option. So my question is there anyone who knows a way to make this happen. Ring of Spell Storing
Gehenna 05-23-05, 12:55 PM	Have the wizard learn Orb of Force from Complete Arcane or the Miniature's Handbook.
kalstrand 05-23-05, 06:58 PM	It wasn't really our choice to befriend the black. We were stuck camping in what turned out to be his swamp and rather than just blasting our group of level 3 characters he decided he would stop and chat, and like it or not he decided to be our "friend" if you will. He were not about to **** him off by telling him to leave us alone. Like I said in my original post the battle will most likely be extremely close between the dragons. We will assist the black as much as we can with the plan that if the black is extremely close to death we will then attack him to be rid of him. Its not that he is really such a bad "friend" we're just not that crazy about a black dragon as an ally. If the black wins handily we will just keep the status quo. If the red wins easily we will either have to decide if we think we can take it or try to weasel our way out of the situation. If I remember correctly either silverfire or spellfire does not allow SR so the mage can probably get a good shot in for some nice damage, and the psion will be able to do damage because we are using the rules that magic and psionics are totally different. We know our party has no chance of defeating either dragon. Our hope is the battle will leave the winner wounded to the point that we can pull off a killing blow and be able to loot the hoards of both dragons.
Arkidisey 05-23-05, 07:44 PM	dont kill the black dragon, load up on any buffs you can and try to help him, he will win, and no matter what, if you try to kill either, you'll never make such a fantastic feat... sorry to kill your hopes, but any level 8 wouldn't be able to take a dragon WYRM on, i think this is an exelent RP situation though :) get ALL and any buffs on your fighter, and when the Black Dragon is fighting the Red, try to help the Black. Anyway, put it this way, the Black Dragon ASKED you for help, if he loses, your screwed by the Red, if you help him win, he'll probably share some loot with you. (well that would be picked by the DM) but it has a better chance of survival, cash, AND a "befriendship" of a black dragon! (my character was a half-black dragon :D) go Black dragons! :D PS: (i know what your trying to do, but you shouldn't, like i said, there could be great posibilities)
Gurv 05-23-05, 08:04 PM	There are two obvious possibilities here. 1) Your DM is setting up a situation where you will be able to do exactly what you plan. The battle between the dragons will leave one or the other weak enough for you to finish it off. All you have to do is have a halfway reasonable plan and maybe a decent roll or two. For whatever reason, part of the plot revolves around you having an insane amount of magic and treasure. The DM has found a way to give you that in an exciting and suspenseful way, and should be commended if it pans out right. Considering what you already have for items, it seems that you are involved in an extreme monty-haul campaign and that this outcome is therefore viable. A monty-haul game can be great fun if the DM knows what he is doing. 2) Your DM is a jerk, who either doesn't understand or doesn't care that what he is doing is railroading you into a situation where you are little more than an audience who will die if it gets involved. If he has no specific reason for this occurrence and is just getting off on the chance to use high-powered creatures and magic, then you are in trouble. If this is the case, and he is just a overexcited player who is excited to have control over the monsters in the game, my suggestion is to have him read my signature. He obviously does not understand the concept of DMing if he places the PCs in impossible and highly unlikely circumstances with no means to deal with them.
eRaz0r 05-23-05, 08:17 PM	Hear Hear Gurv. Under the assumption that it is 1), I'd also suggest that the more interesting and flamboyant (or - if you're DM is sort of a realist, "gritty and frightening") strategy you use, the more likely the DM is going to go with your idea.