Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xaktsaroth 02-21-05, 01:49 AM	I dunno if this goes here or on the Char. Op board, but help would be good. :) Ok, we had this guy who used to DM for us, but after cancelling 8 WEEKS IN A ROW, his girlfriend offered to take over. He was fairly thick with the rules: Greyhawk only, Core races only, core books plus complete only, no Dragon stuff, no Psi's, etc....... He said if he thought we were powergaming, he'd TPK the party. However, his girlfriend has a much more relaxed on the rules. So he wanted to join our game and we figured "Well, the more the merrier!" Ugh. So Mr. No Powergaming, Core races only, no Dragon mag, etc.... comes to the table with a Warforged Anti-Paladin. So, outside of looking like a total hypocrit, he's powergaming the hell out of the character. At lvl 4, he 1-2 hit kills all the enemies we come across, and makes threats that if we don't do things his way, he'll kill us(which, he claims, since he's evil, is perfectly fine. We call it being an ass.) One example that comes to mind is this: We had just lost one of our members due to a bad balance check(failed balance check at -1, died on impact.). Myself, the 3rd Wizard/1st Cleric has only 1 casting of Magic Missile left and 10 hps. The Warlock is half dead at 12 hps. So, I suggest we rest before going into the final room. Here's the conversation: Me: "We really should rest, I only got 1 spell left and one more hit and the Warlock and I are toasted." Him: "Pffft. Who cares, let's go kill it." Me: "We care, we'll die. Who knows what's around the corner?" Him: "It's only a lvl 3 module, there'll be nothing serious."(metagaming, another of my DnD pet peeves.) Me: "But we'll die!" Him: "I don't care." At this point he starts walking towards the final room. Me: "Well, crap. We can't let him die. I'm going to try to help him." The Warlock decides to do the same. So we follow him. So we get into the final room, and there's a Bugbear, gets a surprise round. He nails the Warforged and drops him from 43 to 39. Warforged wins init, and says: "I don't want to die. I run away." 0_O The Warlock decides to do the same. So the bugbear goes and I'm the only one standing there. BANG 12 damage, I'm at -2. Me: "Gah, why'd you run away? I'm a freaking wizard, I can't take a hit like that!" Him: "Well, you only had 1 M. Missile left, you'd be worthless after that." Long story short, he wanted to leave me behind, as I was too much of a burden to go through his sack and cram a CLW potion down my throat. Needless to say, the whole party is completely frustrated with him and his GIRLFRIEND is hinting that we should just kill him to humble him a bit. Sad thing is though, I don't think our party of myself, a 4th Ranger, and a 4th Warlock can do it. So if I die, what's the best 4th build I can come back as to beat some humlity into him? I was thinking a Warforged Paladin with a GreatAxe and Improved Sunder, but I'm open to suggestions. If you have any non-violent suggestions to defuse the situation, I'd love to hear it too, but we have tried ALOT of different stuff. HELP!
Salla 02-21-05, 02:02 AM	Here's the thing ... If you create characters for the express purpose of killing his character, you're just stooping to his level. You're metagaming: "Our characters are going to kill yours solely because we're having inter-player difficulties." I don't think dealing with the situation in-game will help. You kill him, he'll come back with an even more munched out character who will try to kill yours, the downward spiral continues until the game dies a horrible lingering death. The fact that, in his game, he was very 'rules-tight', and he wasn't in the other game is not necessarily a flaw or a grievance; if the present didn't play by such rules, then there was no reason for him to do so. If the girlfriend didn't say 'Core only' etc etc, then all's fine there. Obviously, the problem is with the specific character he chose to play. He chose to play a backstabbing coward who is a liability to the party (I'm going to presume that the rest of the party isn't evil), and you got burned for it. The remainder of the party should just tell him, ICly, to get lost since he's proven that he can't be trusted and that they aren't going to adventure with someone who can't be trusted. He can then make up a new character who fits into the party dynamic, or he can choose not to play. I've, sadly, been in the 'one evil character in a party of good characters' situation. It never ends well. And, invariably, what happens is that we all tell the evil guy to pack up and move out once we catch him doing something we don't approve of.
Xaktsaroth 02-21-05, 02:19 AM	Here's the thing ... If you create characters for the express purpose of killing his character, you're just stooping to his level. You're metagaming: "Our characters are going to kill yours solely because we're having inter-player difficulties." I don't think dealing with the situation in-game will help. You kill him, he'll come back with an even more munched out character who will try to kill yours, the downward spiral continues until the game dies a horrible lingering death. The fact that, in his game, he was very 'rules-tight', and he wasn't in the other game is not necessarily a flaw or a grievance; if the present didn't play by such rules, then there was no reason for him to do so. If the girlfriend didn't say 'Core only' etc etc, then all's fine there. Obviously, the problem is with the specific character he chose to play. He chose to play a backstabbing coward who is a liability to the party (I'm going to presume that the rest of the party isn't evil), and you got burned for it. The remainder of the party should just tell him, ICly, to get lost since he's proven that he can't be trusted and that they aren't going to adventure with someone who can't be trusted. He can then make up a new character who fits into the party dynamic, or he can choose not to play. I've, sadly, been in the 'one evil character in a party of good characters' situation. It never ends well. And, invariably, what happens is that we all tell the evil guy to pack up and move out once we catch him doing something we don't approve of. WarLock and Ranger are CN, I'm Neutral Evil, but not Stupid Evil. I agree, in game killing him is not the best solution by any means, however, we have almost exhausted every out of game thing we can think of. We're afraid to tell him to just leave the group, as chances are, it'll start an episode between him and his girlfriend. He's normally a nice guy, but I have no idea what the hell has gotten into him since he started that Anti-Paladin. He's turned into a jerk.
Maniacal_Cackle 02-21-05, 02:19 AM	Here's the thing ... If you create characters for the express purpose of killing his character, you're just stooping to his level. You're metagaming: "Our characters are going to kill yours solely because we're having inter-player difficulties." I don't think dealing with the situation in-game will help. You kill him, he'll come back with an even more munched out character who will try to kill yours, the downward spiral continues until the game dies a horrible lingering death. The fact that, in his game, he was very 'rules-tight', and he wasn't in the other game is not necessarily a flaw or a grievance; if the present didn't play by such rules, then there was no reason for him to do so. If the girlfriend didn't say 'Core only' etc etc, then all's fine there. Obviously, the problem is with the specific character he chose to play. He chose to play a backstabbing coward who is a liability to the party (I'm going to presume that the rest of the party isn't evil), and you got burned for it. The remainder of the party should just tell him, ICly, to get lost since he's proven that he can't be trusted and that they aren't going to adventure with someone who can't be trusted. He can then make up a new character who fits into the party dynamic, or he can choose not to play. I've, sadly, been in the 'one evil character in a party of good characters' situation. It never ends well. And, invariably, what happens is that we all tell the evil guy to pack up and move out once we catch him doing something we don't approve of. I would agree with this guy... But since the opposing character in question has made threats on your life, I suggest you get rid of him in one of two ways: 1. If you're evil, or maybe neutral: Off him in his sleep. He's probably not extremely effective if you sneakily remove his equipment and coup-de-gras him... And you'll have number odds. 2. Abandon him in his sleep. Just up and leave, his character will have no way of finding your characters (unless he has track or powerful divinations... Unlikely I'm guessing...), boom, he'll have to make a new character. Make him roleplay his way into the party, and so he'll at least have to appear trustworthy. Get the DM's approval first, though...
Xaktsaroth 02-21-05, 02:21 AM	I would agree with this guy... But since the opposing character in question has made threats on your life, I suggest you get rid of him in one of two ways: 1. If you're evil, or maybe neutral: Off him in his sleep. He's probably not extremely effective if you sneakily remove his equipment and coup-de-gras him... And you'll have number odds. 2. Abandon him in his sleep. Just up and leave, his character will have no way of finding your characters (unless he has track or powerful divinations... Unlikely I'm guessing...), boom, he'll have to make a new character. Make him roleplay his way into the party, and so he'll at least have to appear trustworthy. Get the DM's approval first, though... He's a WarForged, they don't sleep. :P
Maniacal_Cackle 02-21-05, 02:23 AM	We're afraid to tell him to just leave the group, as chances are, it'll start an episode between him and his girlfriend. Okay, real life issue coming into play here, here is what I would do. Tell his girlfriend that you are not willing to play with this guy while he is behaving like this, but you also don't want to try to force her to choose sides between her boyfriend and you guys. Her boyfriend would undoubtably get angry (though I think that if he would get upset over something like this, she should question her relationship... Disclaimer: I don't know the details and this comment is quite possibly unjustified) Ask her to talk to the guy about it, and either get it solved or stop playing, which is the DM's job anyway (speaking as a DM) My 4 cents (for the before post and this one :P) Note: You could still run the running away from him in his sleep by the DM, she could just say "well, that's what their characters do, I can hardly control them... Though he will likely abuse that statement later to get revenge...
Maniacal_Cackle 02-21-05, 02:25 AM	He's a WarForged, they don't sleep. :P They don't? Hmmmm... Forgot about that.... Well, apply the run away idea to when they're seperated for some reason (and if the DM approves the idea, she can even help you accomplish this...) If your characters live in fear of this guy, I don't see why they would keep him around... Especially if they get along with each other. Edit... Or... We could get a bit more mean... I think you (the PC's) should frame him for some crime and then run off as he gets subjected to trial. That should be well within your alignments, after all, you kill many things that oppose you in DnD, and I would hardly consider this guy an ally. Edit2: There's also betraying him at a weak point, such as abandoning him in a room with a monster, lock him in, and then come back in and finish him off after he deals with the monster. Edit3: Oh yeah, before I suggest anything more, you have talked to this guy about the problem, right? Edit4: My mind is all over the place tonight, sorry for any incoherencies.
Reinforcements 02-21-05, 02:29 AM	Assuming he's the only warforged in the party, try to get the DM to throw something at your party that is especially deadly to him, not so much to the rest of the party. Rust monsters come to mind.
Xaktsaroth 02-21-05, 02:34 AM	Assuming he's the only warforged in the party, try to get the DM to throw something at your party that is especially deadly to him, not so much to the rest of the party. Rust monsters come to mind. He is. The rest of us are human. That's quite a good idea. I might have to suggest it. However, he tends to hover around his girlfriend, so it'll be quite difficult to talk to her alone about it.
HomebrewedMonster 02-21-05, 02:49 AM	How about you do the good old human interactiong thing and talk to him. You say, for the most part, he's a nice guy. So sit down with him and have the party tell him about the dislike of his character. In the long run it will be easier and cause much less drama then going on a PC killing mission. Once you kill his PC he'll make one to kill your PC, and the cycle will just continue until you both just despise each other. Also a great way to avoid party conflict is to instill thee, "No evil characters rule." Which I love to play by. If a character becomes evil, you take away his character. Solves a lot of problems when a party is good or neutrally aligned.
Thonili_Moonbringer 02-21-05, 02:51 AM	Scribble down your ideas on a piece of paper, crumple it into a ball, and toss it over the DM shield. I'm not sure how universal they are, but secret DM notes are often commonplace in my games.
Xaktsaroth 02-21-05, 03:01 AM	How about you do the good old human interactiong thing and talk to him. You say, for the most part, he's a nice guy. So sit down with him and have the party tell him about the dislike of his character. In the long run it will be easier and cause much less drama then going on a PC killing mission. Once you kill his PC he'll make one to kill your PC, and the cycle will just continue until you both just despise each other. Also a great way to avoid party conflict is to instill thee, "No evil characters rule." Which I love to play by. If a character becomes evil, you take away his character. Solves a lot of problems when a party is good or neutrally aligned. We've tried a lot. Me and him have very different opinions on what's evil. He tend to take an alignment to the extreme(Believes Paladin's can't exist, as killing is an evil act, so if your a Paladin and kill something, you become evil.) He's asked why since I'm NE and indifferent to living things(my char. going necromancer) would I waste my time trying to help the dying Warlock? My answer was simply "I can not reach my goals alone." This situation is very frustrating.
Xaktsaroth 02-21-05, 03:01 AM	Scribble down your ideas on a piece of paper, crumple it into a ball, and toss it over the DM shield. I'm not sure how universal they are, but secret DM notes are often commonplace in my games. Never seen a secret DM note yet, however, I doubt doing such a thing would cause an uproar. I'll give it a try.
True Archon 02-21-05, 04:44 AM	One of the reasons evil characters can be a problem... because some jerk wants to make things miserable on the other players. If it weren't for that, most evil campaigns wouldn't be as difficult as they currently are. Being evil yourself doesn't mean that you're not willing to work with those who work with you. If you find yourself in a similar situation in the future, and the paladin thinks that he is capable of handling the next encounter... let him, and let him do it alone. You and the warlock can backdown from the encounter. If he decides to pull through with his threat of killing members of your party... a collective defense amongst you all should be more than enough for a single character. If he argues that you're all not conforming to your alignments, let him know that you all banded together more for the sheer enjoyment of seeing him suffer or die, and not because it's "lawful" or organized. I pity to see him 10 levels from now doing the same stuff to your wizard though. :eek:
MarkB 02-21-05, 06:34 AM	Also a great way to avoid party conflict is to instill thee, "No evil characters rule." Which I love to play by. If a character becomes evil, you take away his character. Solves a lot of problems when a party is good or neutrally aligned. Another possible variant on this is to say "you can be as evil as you want, but this is a party-based game, so a basic assumption of your character background is that you think you can accomplish your goals better as part of a co-operative party. A character who decides he'd prefer to be a loner and abandon his companions is a perfectly legitimate character, but not a viable player character. Do it once and you're on probation, do it again and your character is an NPC."
Reinforcements 02-21-05, 07:40 AM	MarkB - Indeed. This is really the one unspoken law of character personality - they must be willing to work with others. Almost anything else is free game as long as they'll contribute positively to the party. This is where many players fail - they think "evil" means "I hate everyone."
deusxmachina 02-21-05, 08:26 AM	At this point he starts walking towards the final room. Me: "Well, crap. We can't let him die. I'm going to try to help him."! That was a mistake. I don't think even good characters would help an evil character if the evil character is a stubborn SOB who insists on walking to his doom. Other factors are involved here though, obviously. This isn't about roleplaying well. It's about him being a jackass for whatever reason. When even his girlfriend says his character should be killed off, you know there's a problem. There's probably also a problem with her being his girlfriend, but I guess that's a different topic. Bottom-line: If even his gf thinks he's out of line, then why bother playing with him? If he's a normal person, he'll respond to an honest talk outside of the game. If he can't handle being called the jackass he is, then too bad, so sad, off he goes. And, yeah, "no evil characters," makes for easier adventuring. If someone does something evil, their character is automatically retired, end of story. It takes an entire party of mature roleplayers to be able to pull off a successful evil campaign.
Jell_Moo 02-21-05, 09:11 AM	Personally, I'm struggling to see how this guy could be all that powerful. None of you are good, so Smiting is out the window. He isn't a high enough level to have a mount, so that's out the window... Between you and the Warlock you have some serious firepower, and the Ranger could certainly hold his own. Not that I'm advocating killing his character, I think that would cause more problems than it would solve. I'm just curious as to how this guy could be all that powerful.
Kaboth 02-21-05, 10:52 AM	a 4th level Warlock should have sickening blast on him every round till he fails his fort save and that will be -2 to everything he does for 10 rounds (1 minute). If you wait till 5th level he could do sickening and frighting blast (unless hes immune to fear) and blast for 3D6 a round. If you wait till 6th level the warlock can do fell flight and blast a range. Everyone else could do range and spells...
jedimaster 02-21-05, 11:37 AM	Because if you are Rust monster is good but also some Good Aligned Dragons who have heard about him and kidnap him to a Temple of Bahamut in the Anauroch Desert somewhere to give to the Clerics there as a prisoner would be good. He isn't dead but even if he escapes he is thousands of miles from the rest of the party. It will take him years on foot to get back and by then the rest of you are level 18 or higher. :evillol:
Glenn4Moose 02-21-05, 12:19 PM	Ahem, no pc killing, no in-game planning to get rid of him. The simpliest solutions are the best so just talk to him out of character. Simply go up to him and say "Your current character is a bit of an sob and its making the rest of our gaming not that fun...any chance he could change a bit?" Nine times out of ten, it works. Try it. :p
Arrowhen 02-21-05, 12:38 PM	Maybe his character is just a poorly executed "demonstration" of why he wanted to run a core-only non-powergaming campaign.
Super Guy 02-21-05, 01:25 PM	Like a lot of people have said, talk to him OOC. At least arrange that there will be no intra-party violence. I don't know what the best way to go about it is, though. We have occasionally killed PCs, though it's very rare. Mostly 'cause they tend to conflict with the party's interests. However, the player won't take it hard and will make a new member that goes well with the group. It really depends on what kind of fellow he is.
danielinthewolvesden 02-21-05, 02:26 PM	How about you do the good old human interactiong thing and talk to him. You say, for the most part, he's a nice guy. So sit down with him and have the party tell him about the dislike of his character. In the long run it will be easier and cause much less drama then going on a PC killing mission. Once you kill his PC he'll make one to kill your PC, and the cycle will just continue until you both just despise each other. Also a great way to avoid party conflict is to instill thee, "No evil characters rule." Which I love to play by. If a character becomes evil, you take away his character. Solves a lot of problems when a party is good or neutrally aligned. Right. Have a sit down, and talk this out. However, the "no Evils" rule is something that needs to be in most campaigns, esp those with inexperienced DM's.
Arrowhen 02-21-05, 02:29 PM	However, the "no Evils" rule is something that needs to be in most campaigns, esp those with inexperienced DM's. Or even worse, inexperienced or immature players. Evil characters are several orders of magnitude more difficult to play than good ones.
Rian Lightblade 02-21-05, 02:31 PM	I agree with the others who have said talk to him. That's really going to be the only effective way to deal with him. Tell him all the problems and concerns that you told us. If he is the ok guy that you claim he is them he should back down and apologize. If he doesn't then he's just a jerk and you should boot his butt the curb. If his girlfriend decides not to play with you, then so be it. But she might also see that he's really a jerk and dump and keep playing with your group (so you might be doing her a favor). Either way, talking with a problem player is the only solution.
Ginyu549 02-21-05, 03:07 PM	try to find a scroll, or have a cleric or wiz of sufficient level GEAS him so he has to do what you guys say, or he starts withering. Also, I think you should have access to curse. Curse him. Better yet, wait until you are casting some beneficial spell on him that he will willingly fail his save on, and then at the last sec. curse him. I bet he won't be able to remove it himself, and you can be pretty creative with curses.
gleep 02-21-05, 03:48 PM	From what I've read, the actual problem actually has very little to do with the game. He seems to be having trouble coping with the control his girlfriend now has over him. Despite how the DM seat changed due to his own failings. He's gone from the one in control to the one being controlled. So he tries to control the actions of the party within the game, Trying to handle the problem in-game will actually serve his purpose and just give him satisfaction. He obviously has a maturity problem. Make him go sit in the corner. :D --gleep
HomebrewedMonster 02-21-05, 05:16 PM	Another possible variant on this is to say "you can be as evil as you want, but this is a party-based game, so a basic assumption of your character background is that you think you can accomplish your goals better as part of a co-operative party. A character who decides he'd prefer to be a loner and abandon his companions is a perfectly legitimate character, but not a viable player character. Do it once and you're on probation, do it again and your character is an NPC." Exactly.
Darkness_Falls 02-21-05, 06:41 PM	I agree totally with those who have suggested that this be solved OOC. However, if you really must bring it into character, try making a pact with a Devil. Specifically, Dispater, Lord of the Second. I hear his Rust touch attack can work wonders... :schemes: D.F.
Salla 02-22-05, 02:57 AM	WarLock and Ranger are CN, I'm Neutral Evil, but not Stupid Evil. I agree, in game killing him is not the best solution by any means, however, we have almost exhausted every out of game thing we can think of. We're afraid to tell him to just leave the group, as chances are, it'll start an episode between him and his girlfriend. He's normally a nice guy, but I have no idea what the hell has gotten into him since he started that Anti-Paladin. He's turned into a jerk. This begs the question ... If you're evil, why did you care if he died or not? :D
Xaktsaroth 02-22-05, 05:16 PM	This begs the question ... If you're evil, why did you care if he died or not? :D Ah, the old Evil vs. Stupid Evil question, let me give my opinion on the subject. Evil is all about watching out for #1, so why would I help the highest damage character of my party? Well, I see it this way: In order to look out for #1, sometimes you have to watch out for #2. Cuz every hit that guy takes is one I don't have too. ;)
Eldermount 02-22-05, 05:29 PM	Well, I see it this way: In order to look out for #1, sometimes you have to watch out for #2. And sometimes looking out for #1 means ignoring #2 when he decides to do something stupid. As demonstrated quite nicely by the outcome of your decision to help him. ;)
Xaktsaroth 02-22-05, 05:34 PM	And sometimes looking out for #1 means ignoring #2 when he decides to do something stupid. As demonstrated quite nicely by the outcome of your decision to help him. ;) Heh, I'm not saying I didn't learn my lesson, I'm just saying that's what I thought at the time. If he wants to go smash things in the future, I'll send an undead minion(managed to gain control of a Undead Minotaur), so if he gives me any lip.... GORE! :P
Lana "Silvertongue" 02-22-05, 05:35 PM	Wow, looks like a situation I as a Goody Goody two shoes have to face all the time when I was a straight up cleric. As a player, yes.. it sucks. As for the out of character debate on Evil, there is a great thread regarding what is good and what is evil... one I reread constantly. I have problems with the concepts myself, so I offer it as a must read for everyone. Redgars Good vs. Evil, and their tiers (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=63540). It might help to some degree. As for the girlfriend/DM issue. If the problem is as bad as you suggest, get her e-mail/phone/cell number and write/talk to her. It would eliminate the dotting boyfriend problem, might develope your friendship a touch more. Finally, look into other D&D groups if nothing can be adjudicated.
Xaktsaroth 02-22-05, 05:37 PM	Wow, looks like a situation I as a Goody Goody two shoes have to face all the time when I was a straight up cleric. As a player, yes.. it sucks. As for the out of character debate on Evil, there is a great thread regarding what is good and what is evil... one I reread constantly. I have problems with the concepts myself, so I offer it as a must read for everyone. Redgars Good vs. Evil, and their tiers (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=63540). It might help to some degree. As for the girlfriend/DM issue. If the problem is as bad as you suggest, get her e-mail/phone/cell number and write/talk to her. It would eliminate the dotting boyfriend problem, might develope your friendship a touch more. Finally, look into other D&D groups if nothing can be adjudicated. As far as I can tell, we're the only DnD group in town(700k people). Why? Because when we try to start a group, it tends to take 4 mts. :(
Lincoln Hills 02-22-05, 05:42 PM	You take away his DM screen. You bad! Then his woman take the screen. She much good, but screen not hers! It his! Him no like! Him big chief! You only insignificant pawns in great game of life! His great game of life! So he create metal man to do bad things. Now him can prove screen is his by hurting his woman's game! And by hurting you! It good plan! Ugh!
green_yawgmoth 02-22-05, 05:48 PM	Killing his character will do nothing. The best way to get back at him is to say this, to his face, in front of everyone: "You are not allowed back at this table, until such time that you prove you can be a productive member of our group. When you DMed, you practically forced us to make subpar characters, under threat of 'death by powergaming'. Now, as a player, you munch out your character more than I thought possible, metagame whwnever you think you can get away with it, and act as if your character is the only important one in the game. There is not a single person in this room who thinks you should be let within 50 feet of any roleplaying game, much less ours. Now go home, and see if you can't figure out how to not make a complete ass out of yourself. If you act really really good, we might let you play again in a month. Maybe." http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
speeblefreak 02-22-05, 08:45 PM	Killing his character will do nothing. The best way to get back at him is to say this, to his face, in front of everyone: "You are not allowed back at this table, until such time that you prove you can be a productive member of our group. When you DMed, you practically forced us to make subpar characters, under threat of 'death by powergaming'. Now, as a player, you munch out your character more than I thought possible, metagame whwnever you think you can get away with it, and act as if your character is the only important one in the game. There is not a single person in this room who thinks you should be let within 50 feet of any roleplaying game, much less ours. Now go home, and see if you can't figure out how to not make a complete ass out of yourself. If you act really really good, we might let you play again in a month. Maybe." http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif I have to agree with that. We did the same thing to a really disruptive player in my campaign (albeit for different reasons), and I think the group is a better one for it. In-game removal is not a good idea. If you must kill him, though, I think a rust monster is technically an easy fight for the party... :devil:
green_yawgmoth 02-23-05, 10:48 AM	I have to agree with that. We did the same thing to a really disruptive player in my campaign (albeit for different reasons), and I think the group is a better one for it. In-game removal is not a good idea. If you must kill him, though, I think a rust monster is technically an easy fight for the party... :devil: 1. Find a Solar/Balor. 2. "Can I borrow that sword for just a sec? Thanks." 3. *Vorpal!* 4. ... 5. Profit. :D http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
speeblefreak 02-23-05, 07:27 PM	1. Find a Solar/Balor. 2. "Can I borrow that sword for just a sec? Thanks." 3. *Vorpal!* 4. ... 5. Profit. :D http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif Three problems with that. One, you still need to achieve a crit. Two, I don't think constructs need their heads. Three, if the sword-owner in question is a balor he'll probably lend you the wrong end :bigeyes: , and if the owner is a solar, he will probably refuse to participate in this "sickening display of pettiness." Solars are like that.
Xaktsaroth 02-23-05, 07:55 PM	Three problems with that. One, you still need to achieve a crit. Two, I don't think constructs need their heads. Three, if the sword-owner in question is a balor he'll probably lend you the wrong end :bigeyes: , and if the owner is a solar, he will probably refuse to participate in this "sickening display of pettiness." Solars are like that. I'd call it rightious vengence. :P
speeblefreak 02-23-05, 08:01 PM	I'd call it rightious vengence. :P Fine, have it your way. :rolleyes:
green_yawgmoth 02-23-05, 09:08 PM	Three problems with that. One, you still need to achieve a crit. Two, I don't think constructs need their heads. Three, if the sword-owner in question is a balor he'll probably lend you the wrong end :bigeyes: , and if the owner is a solar, he will probably refuse to participate in this "sickening display of pettiness." Solars are like that. Actually, warforged do need their heads. Also, it was a joke. :P http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
feartheinvinceblehamster 02-23-05, 09:43 PM	okay, a nonviolent solution would have worked before, this has changed. build a half-orc barbarian and fly into a rage next time he threatens you, your fellow party is probably also annoyed, no matter how powergaming he is, a 4th lvl character that is still within the rules cannot take a warlock, ranger, and raging barbarian all of his lvl. a barbarian has a MINIMUM of 25 hp at this lvl, if u have 18 con, u can have as much as 40-some HP, this munchkin will look something like this: :eek: :confused: :censored: :banghead:
Phrennzy 02-25-05, 12:05 AM	Why do you have a problem communicating with your friend? Why can't you explain your - and presumably the rest of the groups (including the DMs) - displeasure with his choice of character and playing style? :confused:
green_yawgmoth 02-25-05, 02:13 AM	Why do you have a problem communicating with your friend? Why can't you explain your - and presumably the rest of the groups (including the DMs) - displeasure with his choice of character and playing style? :confused: Because people nowadays are raised to avoid any sort of conflict - even a constructive one - like bubonic malariAIDS. Thus, they want to kill his character and hope he takes the incredibly vague hint that they don't like the way he's acting. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Black Knight Geno 02-25-05, 01:30 PM	I am personally fond of this strategy 1) Take foot 2) Insert into jerks @*& 3) Repeat as necessary :evillaugh Or the cursed belt of PC castration could be fun! Or a cursed ring of geas, forces the PC to act contrary to alignment and anihilates (sorry if mispelled :blush: ) the character if he doesn't do what the ring whats! :evillaugh
Xaktsaroth 02-25-05, 01:42 PM	Why do you have a problem communicating with your friend? Why can't you explain your - and presumably the rest of the groups (including the DMs) - displeasure with his choice of character and playing style? :confused: Because we havn't played since this occured. I havn't had a chance to talk to him. :P Because people nowadays are raised to avoid any sort of conflict - even a constructive one - like bubonic malariAIDS. Thus, they want to kill his character and hope he takes the incredibly vague hint that they don't like the way he's acting. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif I somewhat resent that, as I have a large hatred for people like that. I just havn't seen him since then, and our group has been cancelled for this Saturday, so I have to wait till next Saturday to get this resolved. :(
Thoronmir 02-25-05, 02:17 PM	I just havn't seen him since then, and our group has been cancelled for this Saturday, so I have to wait till next Saturday to get this resolved.Does he have a phone?
pres_man 02-25-05, 03:31 PM	Yeah, I would sugget talking to him outside of game and telling him how disruptive his playing is and that he should change. If agrees and doesn't or if he just flat refuses, then at the first chance have your characters ditch his. No need to kill him, I mean if I know someone who is basically an a$$ all of the time, I just don't hang out with them. If I won't do it in real life, why in the world would my PC do it when their lives are constantly in peril. And if the guy doesn't understand how a person can play a paladin, never ever let him DM again. In fact perhaps you should offer to take over for the current DM and then make everybody make new 1st level characters who are non-evil and only the stuff in the 3 core books can be used. That should fix most problems.
Xaktsaroth 02-25-05, 06:34 PM	Does he have a phone? Yah, but I don't have his number. :(
Habronicus 02-26-05, 11:20 AM	Everyone's assuming that everything happened as the OP described. That in itself strikes me as funny, but maybe it's just me. Well, a good GM who happens to be a bad player is nothing new to me. There are some possible solutions, though. 1 - Talk to the GM. Even if the "bad guy" hovers her, I'm sure he has to use the bathroom at some point, unless he needs her to help him with that. Anyway, talk to the GM and describe the problem, letting her handle the situation. 2 - Suggest a group meeting. In this situation, everyone discusses the problem like adults - usually an utopian solution, but a blissful one when all members of the group fit the description of "mentally mature". 3 - Offer to be the GM, and handle the situation yourself. There's a world of oportunities here, but it's hard work because you don't want to come off as a "bad GM" either. Hope this helps.
Ormiss 02-26-05, 12:56 PM	Telling people they're the problem is not a good way to start a constructive conversation. Here's what I would say if I were you: "I'm not having fun." If he cares about whether you have fun or not, he'll ask why, and you can explain why you're not having fun. If he cares about whether you have fun or not, he'll come up with a solution. Most people would rather be the guy that made a sacrifice to ensure that the other people had fun than the guy who was an idiot and was told to change or leave. Good luck.
danielinthewolvesden 02-26-05, 02:04 PM	Habronicus & Ormiss have made excellent points. This needs to be openly discussed like mature adults. When doing so- never say things like "you're being disruptive"- that's an accusation. Rather say things along the lines of "I am not enjoying the game anywhere near as much when you play like that".