Arcane Archer, spells for Imbue Arrow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Archer, spells for Imbue Arrow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nightwing
11-15-06, 05:15 PM What are the best spells to put on an arrow with Imbue Arrow?
Thubby
11-15-06, 05:21 PM that depends entirely on your build. did you scate in with minimum casting, or did you go for more spells, but higher entry level?

in general, fireball (is their an ability out their that isnt helpful to/by firebal???) is the obvious.
the fog spells can realy screw with people.
ottilukes resilient sphere.
im sure their are others.
edit: (ill put any otehrs i think of here)
darkness.
web
summon monster (maybe?)
stinking cloud
SillyRobot
11-15-06, 07:06 PM Anti-Magic Field
2nd Ed Paladin
11-15-06, 07:08 PM Doesn't fireball have a 400ft+ range and autohit anyway? Probably best to use spells that have a range that you can't reach without imbuing.

Possibilities include:
grease (close range normally)
obscuring mist (normally only surrounds caster)
burning hands (normally have to be in melee)
colour spray normally have to be in melee)
Tasha's Hidious laughter (close range normally)
Daylight (? touch range, does affect an area though)
Crushing depair (30ft range)

that'll get you through a few levels anyway. I've personally always thought that this prestige class is really underpowered btw. Although unlimited +5 arrows is nice at higher levels, you can get almost the same benefit by taking Eldritch Knight and ensuring you memorize greater magic weapon once or twice a day as it does 50 arrows and has a 1 hr/level duration. Most of the other powers are 1/day abilities that I would give up in a a second for nine caster levels.

If one of my PCs were to take it I would give them the option to exchange any of the "special abilities" with a caster level.
Thubby
11-15-06, 07:46 PM Doesn't fireball have a 400ft+ range and autohit anyway? Probably best to use spells that have a range that you can't reach without imbuing.

Possibilities include:
grease (close range normally)
obscuring mist (normally only surrounds caster)
burning hands (normally have to be in melee)
colour spray normally have to be in melee)
Tasha's Hidious laughter (close range normally)
Daylight (? touch range, does affect an area though)
Crushing depair (30ft range)

that'll get you through a few levels anyway. I've personally always thought that this prestige class is really underpowered btw. Although unlimited +5 arrows is nice at higher levels, you can get almost the same benefit by taking Eldritch Knight and ensuring you memorize greater magic weapon once or twice a day as it does 50 arrows and has a 1 hr/level duration. Most of the other powers are 1/day abilities that I would give up in a a second for nine caster levels.

If one of my PCs were to take it I would give them the option to exchange any of the "special abilities" with a caster level.

the real benefit comes from combining that +5 with a good bow. +1 flame shock frost, with your +5 ability (on a short bow) is 4d6+5 (plus any other abilities you may have), not to mention many shot.
oh, and those useless abilites are crazy with imbue. when you can shoot a fireball through (or around) a wall at someone, its pretty crazy, even if it is 1/d.
wouldnt it be better to cast daylight on the arrow, then shoot it. (you'd illuminate everything (if for only a second) on the way there too, and mess up a load of drow)
bholdr_mage
11-15-06, 11:24 PM Uh...no.

Color spray, Burning hands, and Tasha's hideous laughter are NOT spells to use with an arcane archer. Only spells that are described under effect: as AREA.

Stinking cloud
Light
Silence (bard's version)
Sound burst

The absolute COOLEST thing to do is buy a bow of spell storing. Then, you can set off something with the range of touch with the range of your bow AND an area effect spell. Damage dealing things like vampiric touch or chill touch work well here. I think the spell compendium had a dozen or so spells. Either way, it's better to play a warlock...then you don't have to worry about hosing your party should they get in the way of your stinking...snicker...cloud.

Bards also make the best "caster" part of the build for the archer; especially of silence vs. spell casters.
2nd Ed Paladin
11-16-06, 08:15 AM the real benefit comes from combining that +5 with a good bow. +1 flame shock frost, with your +5 ability (on a short bow) is 4d6+5 (plus any other abilities you may have), not to mention many shot.
oh, and those useless abilites are crazy with imbue. when you can shoot a fireball through (or around) a wall at someone, its pretty crazy, even if it is 1/d.
wouldnt it be better to cast daylight on the arrow, then shoot it. (you'd illuminate everything (if for only a second) on the way there too, and mess up a load of drow)

I didn't say they werent useful abilities I said that I thought an archer focused Eldritch night was better as a "Mystic archer" than an arcane archer. I realize that's just my opinion and I can see your points. The abilities they receive just don't seem worth a 10 level class.

Also, you can still use GMW'd arrows with the bow you described.

Uh...no.

Color spray, Burning hands, and Tasha's hideous laughter are NOT spells to use with an arcane archer. Only spells that are described under effect: as AREA.

Stinking cloud
Light
Silence (bard's version)
Sound burst

Oops, well I guess it's clear I don't play AAs that much, I just scrolled through the SRD looking for close range spells that affected an area and didn't check to see if they were "area affect". Thanks for clearing that up for the OP. Although it seems to make the AA even more underpowered than I thought originally.
nightwing
11-16-06, 09:24 AM wow. Thanks for the ideas fellas. As it happens, my arcane archer took only one level of wizard before taking arcane archer, so she's ftr6/wiz1/aa4.

For future reference, do you think it would be broken to give arcane archers the described abilities by level AND a caster level at each level? By way of comparison, mystic theurge gets 2 caster levels (one for each class). Arcane archers would forgo one of those caster levels for the archer abilities. Is this reasonable or would it swing the pendulum the other way, making the arcane archer too good?

I'm happy with my character. It doesn't matter so much if she's less powerful than other classes, she's been a load of fun to play, which is what I mostly care about. She seems quite powerful to the people I play with (who are relatively inexperienced D&Ders) and they get a kick out of seeing her pump arrows into creatures until they closely resemble pincushions. But if there's a way to make arcane archers "measure up", I'm interested for future campaigns. Thanks.
2nd Ed Paladin
11-16-06, 10:49 AM As I said above I think the idea of swapping some of the abilities for caster levels are appropriate. I think if you give it full caster progression plus the abilities it becomes overpowered. If that was done, why would anyone ever use Eldritch Kinght? The classes are very similar, one gets fulle BaB, 9 caster levels and a bonus feat and the AA gets full BaB and 10 special abilities.

Although I said above I woud remove the special abilities for caster levels (ie shoot through walls etc) I changed my mind and would exchange the arrow enhancements (ie +1, +2) for caster levels. This would give the AA 5 neat abilities and 5 caster levels. This seems on par with other Gish classes like the Bladesinger in Complete Warrior.
Thubby
11-16-06, 08:21 PM wow. Thanks for the ideas fellas. As it happens, my arcane archer took only one level of wizard before taking arcane archer, so she's ftr6/wiz1/aa4.

For future reference, do you think it would be broken to give arcane archers the described abilities by level AND a caster level at each level? By way of comparison, mystic theurge gets 2 caster levels (one for each class). Arcane archers would forgo one of those caster levels for the archer abilities. Is this reasonable or would it swing the pendulum the other way, making the arcane archer too good?

I'm happy with my character. It doesn't matter so much if she's less powerful than other classes, she's been a load of fun to play, which is what I mostly care about. She seems quite powerful to the people I play with (who are relatively inexperienced D&Ders) and they get a kick out of seeing her pump arrows into creatures until they closely resemble pincushions. But if there's a way to make arcane archers "measure up", I'm interested for future campaigns. Thanks.
full casting would eat people, trading out at the not arrow buf levels for caster level seems balanced.

thurge gets away with that by having deathly ability needs (wis and int, for min lvl), and unrelated (not directly at least) abilities (arcane archers abilites work better and better, the more caster you are, imbue burning hands goes to fireball, to firestorm, blah blah), and having a -3 minimum caster level in (which is between 1 and 2 spell levels)both classes (as opposed to aa -1, which is 0-1 spell levels).

not to mention the cleric half isnt wearing armor. loses turning, and familiar (for wiz). not to mention the crap skills, and hp, and bab
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi
11-16-06, 10:01 PM in general, fireball (is their an ability out their that isnt helpful to/by firebal???) is the obvious.

I'd recommend delayed blast fireball instead. Why? Attach a note to the arrow. Let fly, landing at the target's feet. He picks it up to read the note. Any minions, etc. are going to crowd around curiously. Because that's how sentient beings are. Suddenly, BOOM! And I repeat, you drew the minions in closer. A DM's who's on your side might even say the reader is at a slight penalty to the reflex save, being preoccupied. If not, put a Sepia Snake Sigil (or whatever the spell is) in the note, paralyzing the reader. Can't move. No reflex save.

My calling card. Much better than the old, "I prepared Explosive Runes today" note.
Thubby
11-16-06, 11:49 PM My calling card. Much better than the old, "I prepared Explosive Runes today" note.

and a grand one at that.
but if you want sick, put multiple traps on it. fold it, and put fire trap on it to go when someone "opens" it.
make it (when closes) contact (insert favorite symbol here)
THEN add sepia, and why not. explosive runes the note berading them for taking 50+ damage trying to read a piece of paper.

old character o mine "dropped" those things at surtain intersections. we had so much fun, we would leave eyeballs (from that div spell) to bring back a recordings of the hillariously explosive goblins.
draco1119
11-17-06, 05:32 AM Anti-Magic Field
Correct answer. Think about it. This normally has a range of "You," but the Arcane Archer specifically allows you to imbue it into an arrow. Shoot at opposing party's caster...
Zemyla
11-21-06, 02:39 PM Isn't there an arrow that specifically sticks into the opponent's flesh, or am I thinking of something else?
TwiddleStootch
11-21-06, 03:24 PM Isn't there an arrow that specifically sticks into the opponent's flesh, or am I thinking of something else?

yes, it is a enchantment in Complete Warrior.
I forget the name, don't have the book with me, but it stays in the wound until removed, which causes damage.
draco1119
11-23-06, 05:36 AM yes, it is a enchantment in Complete Warrior.
I forget the name, don't have the book with me, but it stays in the wound until removed, which causes damage.
It's actually one of the specific Magical Weapons. I believe it's called a "Burrowing Arrow."
green_yawgmoth
11-23-06, 09:32 PM I always liked using the BoVD spell Dance of ruin. It's an area of "close", and does 2d20 damage to all non-demons, ref half. I had a castle in the underdark protected by 4 drow AAs with this spell, and it almost led to a TPK. Raining 2d20 bursts while summoned demons attack was almost too effective.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
draco1119
11-23-06, 10:38 PM I always liked using the BoVD spell Dance of ruin. It's an area of "close", and does 2d20 damage to all non-demons, ref half. I had a castle in the underdark protected by 4 drow AAs with this spell, and it almost led to a TPK. Raining 2d20 bursts while summoned demons attack was almost too effective.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
That's just... wrong, man. Just wrong.
pmurray@bigpond.com
11-23-06, 11:41 PM Uh...no.

Color spray, Burning hands, and Tasha's hideous laughter are NOT spells to use with an arcane archer. Only spells that are described under effect: as AREA.

Color spray and burning hands are both area effect - they affect a 15' cone.
green_yawgmoth
11-24-06, 03:02 PM That's just... wrong, man. Just wrong.They knew that running is always an option, and sometimes the only option. :devil:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
bholdr_mage
11-26-06, 11:19 PM Color spray and burning hands are both area effect - they affect a 15' cone.

Yep. That they do. My bad.

However, a burst is definitely more effective than a cone most of the time. An army charging or a group coming down a corridor is a great time to use burning hands.

A line is also an "area." This means lightning bolt can be effective in particular situations. Any spell with the area descriptor works here. For some odd reason, I thought that burst spells were the only ones that had the area type. D'oh.

It's too powerful to give them a caster level in addition to their abilities. As previously stated, the magic is their strength, and they aren't supposed to deal as much damage as a regular mage/psion/druid/cleric. Consider them on the same tangent as the warlock. In fact, most of the time this is what they are compared to and vice/versa.
RoamingArcher
11-27-06, 05:43 PM Other good spells include Prismatic Spray, Silence (aim for the enemy commander or a mage), and Mass Charm Person.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nightwing 11-15-06, 05:15 PM	What are the best spells to put on an arrow with Imbue Arrow?
Thubby 11-15-06, 05:21 PM	that depends entirely on your build. did you scate in with minimum casting, or did you go for more spells, but higher entry level? in general, fireball (is their an ability out their that isnt helpful to/by firebal???) is the obvious. the fog spells can realy screw with people. ottilukes resilient sphere. im sure their are others. edit: (ill put any otehrs i think of here) darkness. web summon monster (maybe?) stinking cloud
SillyRobot 11-15-06, 07:06 PM	Anti-Magic Field
2nd Ed Paladin 11-15-06, 07:08 PM	Doesn't fireball have a 400ft+ range and autohit anyway? Probably best to use spells that have a range that you can't reach without imbuing. Possibilities include: grease (close range normally) obscuring mist (normally only surrounds caster) burning hands (normally have to be in melee) colour spray normally have to be in melee) Tasha's Hidious laughter (close range normally) Daylight (? touch range, does affect an area though) Crushing depair (30ft range) that'll get you through a few levels anyway. I've personally always thought that this prestige class is really underpowered btw. Although unlimited +5 arrows is nice at higher levels, you can get almost the same benefit by taking Eldritch Knight and ensuring you memorize greater magic weapon once or twice a day as it does 50 arrows and has a 1 hr/level duration. Most of the other powers are 1/day abilities that I would give up in a a second for nine caster levels. If one of my PCs were to take it I would give them the option to exchange any of the "special abilities" with a caster level.
Thubby 11-15-06, 07:46 PM	Doesn't fireball have a 400ft+ range and autohit anyway? Probably best to use spells that have a range that you can't reach without imbuing. Possibilities include: grease (close range normally) obscuring mist (normally only surrounds caster) burning hands (normally have to be in melee) colour spray normally have to be in melee) Tasha's Hidious laughter (close range normally) Daylight (? touch range, does affect an area though) Crushing depair (30ft range) that'll get you through a few levels anyway. I've personally always thought that this prestige class is really underpowered btw. Although unlimited +5 arrows is nice at higher levels, you can get almost the same benefit by taking Eldritch Knight and ensuring you memorize greater magic weapon once or twice a day as it does 50 arrows and has a 1 hr/level duration. Most of the other powers are 1/day abilities that I would give up in a a second for nine caster levels. If one of my PCs were to take it I would give them the option to exchange any of the "special abilities" with a caster level. the real benefit comes from combining that +5 with a good bow. +1 flame shock frost, with your +5 ability (on a short bow) is 4d6+5 (plus any other abilities you may have), not to mention many shot. oh, and those useless abilites are crazy with imbue. when you can shoot a fireball through (or around) a wall at someone, its pretty crazy, even if it is 1/d. wouldnt it be better to cast daylight on the arrow, then shoot it. (you'd illuminate everything (if for only a second) on the way there too, and mess up a load of drow)
bholdr_mage 11-15-06, 11:24 PM	Uh...no. Color spray, Burning hands, and Tasha's hideous laughter are NOT spells to use with an arcane archer. Only spells that are described under effect: as AREA. Stinking cloud Light Silence (bard's version) Sound burst The absolute COOLEST thing to do is buy a bow of spell storing. Then, you can set off something with the range of touch with the range of your bow AND an area effect spell. Damage dealing things like vampiric touch or chill touch work well here. I think the spell compendium had a dozen or so spells. Either way, it's better to play a warlock...then you don't have to worry about hosing your party should they get in the way of your stinking...snicker...cloud. Bards also make the best "caster" part of the build for the archer; especially of silence vs. spell casters.
2nd Ed Paladin 11-16-06, 08:15 AM	the real benefit comes from combining that +5 with a good bow. +1 flame shock frost, with your +5 ability (on a short bow) is 4d6+5 (plus any other abilities you may have), not to mention many shot. oh, and those useless abilites are crazy with imbue. when you can shoot a fireball through (or around) a wall at someone, its pretty crazy, even if it is 1/d. wouldnt it be better to cast daylight on the arrow, then shoot it. (you'd illuminate everything (if for only a second) on the way there too, and mess up a load of drow) I didn't say they werent useful abilities I said that I thought an archer focused Eldritch night was better as a "Mystic archer" than an arcane archer. I realize that's just my opinion and I can see your points. The abilities they receive just don't seem worth a 10 level class. Also, you can still use GMW'd arrows with the bow you described. Uh...no. Color spray, Burning hands, and Tasha's hideous laughter are NOT spells to use with an arcane archer. Only spells that are described under effect: as AREA. Stinking cloud Light Silence (bard's version) Sound burst Oops, well I guess it's clear I don't play AAs that much, I just scrolled through the SRD looking for close range spells that affected an area and didn't check to see if they were "area affect". Thanks for clearing that up for the OP. Although it seems to make the AA even more underpowered than I thought originally.
nightwing 11-16-06, 09:24 AM	wow. Thanks for the ideas fellas. As it happens, my arcane archer took only one level of wizard before taking arcane archer, so she's ftr6/wiz1/aa4. For future reference, do you think it would be broken to give arcane archers the described abilities by level AND a caster level at each level? By way of comparison, mystic theurge gets 2 caster levels (one for each class). Arcane archers would forgo one of those caster levels for the archer abilities. Is this reasonable or would it swing the pendulum the other way, making the arcane archer too good? I'm happy with my character. It doesn't matter so much if she's less powerful than other classes, she's been a load of fun to play, which is what I mostly care about. She seems quite powerful to the people I play with (who are relatively inexperienced D&Ders) and they get a kick out of seeing her pump arrows into creatures until they closely resemble pincushions. But if there's a way to make arcane archers "measure up", I'm interested for future campaigns. Thanks.
2nd Ed Paladin 11-16-06, 10:49 AM	As I said above I think the idea of swapping some of the abilities for caster levels are appropriate. I think if you give it full caster progression plus the abilities it becomes overpowered. If that was done, why would anyone ever use Eldritch Kinght? The classes are very similar, one gets fulle BaB, 9 caster levels and a bonus feat and the AA gets full BaB and 10 special abilities. Although I said above I woud remove the special abilities for caster levels (ie shoot through walls etc) I changed my mind and would exchange the arrow enhancements (ie +1, +2) for caster levels. This would give the AA 5 neat abilities and 5 caster levels. This seems on par with other Gish classes like the Bladesinger in Complete Warrior.
Thubby 11-16-06, 08:21 PM	wow. Thanks for the ideas fellas. As it happens, my arcane archer took only one level of wizard before taking arcane archer, so she's ftr6/wiz1/aa4. For future reference, do you think it would be broken to give arcane archers the described abilities by level AND a caster level at each level? By way of comparison, mystic theurge gets 2 caster levels (one for each class). Arcane archers would forgo one of those caster levels for the archer abilities. Is this reasonable or would it swing the pendulum the other way, making the arcane archer too good? I'm happy with my character. It doesn't matter so much if she's less powerful than other classes, she's been a load of fun to play, which is what I mostly care about. She seems quite powerful to the people I play with (who are relatively inexperienced D&Ders) and they get a kick out of seeing her pump arrows into creatures until they closely resemble pincushions. But if there's a way to make arcane archers "measure up", I'm interested for future campaigns. Thanks. full casting would eat people, trading out at the not arrow buf levels for caster level seems balanced. thurge gets away with that by having deathly ability needs (wis and int, for min lvl), and unrelated (not directly at least) abilities (arcane archers abilites work better and better, the more caster you are, imbue burning hands goes to fireball, to firestorm, blah blah), and having a -3 minimum caster level in (which is between 1 and 2 spell levels)both classes (as opposed to aa -1, which is 0-1 spell levels). not to mention the cleric half isnt wearing armor. loses turning, and familiar (for wiz). not to mention the crap skills, and hp, and bab
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 11-16-06, 10:01 PM	in general, fireball (is their an ability out their that isnt helpful to/by firebal???) is the obvious. I'd recommend delayed blast fireball instead. Why? Attach a note to the arrow. Let fly, landing at the target's feet. He picks it up to read the note. Any minions, etc. are going to crowd around curiously. Because that's how sentient beings are. Suddenly, BOOM! And I repeat, you drew the minions in closer. A DM's who's on your side might even say the reader is at a slight penalty to the reflex save, being preoccupied. If not, put a Sepia Snake Sigil (or whatever the spell is) in the note, paralyzing the reader. Can't move. No reflex save. My calling card. Much better than the old, "I prepared Explosive Runes today" note.
Thubby 11-16-06, 11:49 PM	My calling card. Much better than the old, "I prepared Explosive Runes today" note. and a grand one at that. but if you want sick, put multiple traps on it. fold it, and put fire trap on it to go when someone "opens" it. make it (when closes) contact (insert favorite symbol here) THEN add sepia, and why not. explosive runes the note berading them for taking 50+ damage trying to read a piece of paper. old character o mine "dropped" those things at surtain intersections. we had so much fun, we would leave eyeballs (from that div spell) to bring back a recordings of the hillariously explosive goblins.
draco1119 11-17-06, 05:32 AM	Anti-Magic Field Correct answer. Think about it. This normally has a range of "You," but the Arcane Archer specifically allows you to imbue it into an arrow. Shoot at opposing party's caster...
Zemyla 11-21-06, 02:39 PM	Isn't there an arrow that specifically sticks into the opponent's flesh, or am I thinking of something else?
TwiddleStootch 11-21-06, 03:24 PM	Isn't there an arrow that specifically sticks into the opponent's flesh, or am I thinking of something else? yes, it is a enchantment in Complete Warrior. I forget the name, don't have the book with me, but it stays in the wound until removed, which causes damage.
draco1119 11-23-06, 05:36 AM	yes, it is a enchantment in Complete Warrior. I forget the name, don't have the book with me, but it stays in the wound until removed, which causes damage. It's actually one of the specific Magical Weapons. I believe it's called a "Burrowing Arrow."
green_yawgmoth 11-23-06, 09:32 PM	I always liked using the BoVD spell Dance of ruin. It's an area of "close", and does 2d20 damage to all non-demons, ref half. I had a castle in the underdark protected by 4 drow AAs with this spell, and it almost led to a TPK. Raining 2d20 bursts while summoned demons attack was almost too effective. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
draco1119 11-23-06, 10:38 PM	I always liked using the BoVD spell Dance of ruin. It's an area of "close", and does 2d20 damage to all non-demons, ref half. I had a castle in the underdark protected by 4 drow AAs with this spell, and it almost led to a TPK. Raining 2d20 bursts while summoned demons attack was almost too effective. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif That's just... wrong, man. Just wrong.
pmurray@bigpond.com 11-23-06, 11:41 PM	Uh...no. Color spray, Burning hands, and Tasha's hideous laughter are NOT spells to use with an arcane archer. Only spells that are described under effect: as AREA. Color spray and burning hands are both area effect - they affect a 15' cone.
green_yawgmoth 11-24-06, 03:02 PM	That's just... wrong, man. Just wrong.They knew that running is always an option, and sometimes the only option. :devil: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
bholdr_mage 11-26-06, 11:19 PM	Color spray and burning hands are both area effect - they affect a 15' cone. Yep. That they do. My bad. However, a burst is definitely more effective than a cone most of the time. An army charging or a group coming down a corridor is a great time to use burning hands. A line is also an "area." This means lightning bolt can be effective in particular situations. Any spell with the area descriptor works here. For some odd reason, I thought that burst spells were the only ones that had the area type. D'oh. It's too powerful to give them a caster level in addition to their abilities. As previously stated, the magic is their strength, and they aren't supposed to deal as much damage as a regular mage/psion/druid/cleric. Consider them on the same tangent as the warlock. In fact, most of the time this is what they are compared to and vice/versa.
RoamingArcher 11-27-06, 05:43 PM	Other good spells include Prismatic Spray, Silence (aim for the enemy commander or a mage), and Mass Charm Person.