Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bruenor CrimsonHammer 01-17-06, 09:44 AM	in my group of player, when they do fighter they never give them an high score of INT, is it just me or I have a good reason to say that fighter with INT is fun and powerful even if you don't have much STR
On_the_wings_of_TPK 01-17-06, 10:03 AM	Well certainly. Having an int of 13+ can lead to things like, combat expertise. Witch leads to improved trip and improved disarm, witch leads to the spiked chain...witch leads to the dark side....
Draco Strang 01-17-06, 10:06 AM	Welcome to the world of the dex-based fighter. I've played (and DM'd) more than one fighter that only had a strength of 12 or 13. However, with Dex and Int soaring above 16, I had plenty of wiggle room to build a fighter that focused on reach weapons. With feats like Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, etc, you can build a devastating fighter that hardly misses strength.
CzarGarrett 01-17-06, 10:06 AM	Thats just an attempt to powergame, and the players ignoring the Combat Expertise feat tree. Personally, I love the idea of having a higher Int fighter. One who has a few points into some Knowledge skills for the purposes of running seiges. A super high STR fighter can kill quickly (theoretcially) but they are weak in so many other areas.
High Octane 01-17-06, 10:06 AM	Int doesnt provide any bonuses for fighters other than skill points and skill modifiers, and there are almost no class skills fighters have that are Int based. As mentioned, it is a pre-requisite for some feats though.
janusthinker 01-17-06, 10:11 AM	1)Without high intelligence, it's difficult to roleplay the very fun tactical warrior. Perhaps he trains daily, practicing for any possible mode of enemy attack. Perhaps he doesn't just fight one-on-one, but draws up plans of attack for entire armies and then tests those plans by putting his life on the line with his men (yay, Leadership!). Perhaps he runs a school. Any or all of these can be fun. 2)Sweet lordy Pelor, Combat Expertise. This cannot be emphasized enough. Int 13 gives you that ability to save your bacon if something is hitting you too often, and taking Improved Combat Expertise just makes it better-if you're in trouble, just add your level to your AC (okay, you won't be able to hit crap, but you do get to live). Additionally, Combat Expertise is required to get to both the really fun not-high-strength-requiring stuff: Disarming, Tripping, and Feinting. Feinting is more the Rogue's area, but it is very, very nice to be able to say either "Man, that weapon is irritating me. Mine now." or "Silly opponent. Bow before me!" Additionally additionally, without Combat Expertise (and thus intelligence), you can't get one of the greatest melee feats in the game, Whirlwind Attack. Hellooooo, Fighter area attack. Almost. [Drat, took too long writing a response. :P ]
Feor 01-17-06, 05:27 PM	It's entirely possible to create a high int fighter, people don't seem to like rollplaying them though. The prefered fighter archetype seems to be teh "find stick, hit hting with stick" style fighter. A high int fighter will usually tend towards being a leader on the battlefield, planning out tactics and other such techniques.
Cymraegmorgan 01-17-06, 06:38 PM	Most gamers I know do not play stupid fighters. With the plethora of strength enhancements available, most fighter players I know go for balanced stats, so as to take advantage of the good feats.
OctoberRaven 01-17-06, 08:14 PM	My game had a fighter that we all agreed was almost exactly like Fighter in 8-Bit Theatre. As much as a INT fighter is cool, I simply prefer the stupid fighter. More fun to play IMO, especially in a hack-and-slash adventure. Anyways, let's face it, if Fighter and Roy from OOTS were to go one on one, Fighter would most likely win.
primemover003 01-17-06, 08:34 PM	Well certainly. Having an int of 13+ can lead to things like, combat expertise. Witch leads to improved trip and improved disarm, witch leads to the spiked chain...witch leads to the dark side.... I thought this was about Fighters, not Witches... Which brings me back on topic, the combat expertise fighter has a lot of potential for tanking. I'm about to try and build one using Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Imp. Trip/disarm, Karmic Strike, Elusive Target, and anything else that'll up my AC or allow me some special extra attacks.
Pseudo_Gear 01-18-06, 12:18 AM	I think he meant "which" not witch .... hopefully the gods of grammer and spelling will smite everyone who doesn't obey them :P
Elrin 01-20-06, 12:32 AM	hehe, personally, Fighters are my class of choice. And they are all, almost w/o exception, highly intelligent.. Depending on what "kind" of fighter I'm going for will depend on which stat is highest, but I've been known to take hits to con just so I can have a decent INT stat to go along w/ my fighting ability :)
ressurrector 01-20-06, 12:41 AM	1)Additionally, Combat Expertise is required to get to both the really fun not-high-strength-requiring stuff: Disarming, Tripping, and Feinting. Feinting is more the Rogue's area, but it is very, very nice to be able to say either "Man, that weapon is irritating me. Mine now." or "Silly opponent. Bow before me!" Scuse me, but what does Combat Expertise have to do with feinting? (making a feint rogue but haven't figured out all the cool feats I want yet)
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-20-06, 12:52 AM	Scuse me, but what does Combat Expertise have to do with feinting? (making a feint rogue but haven't figured out all the cool feats I want yet) Combat Expertise is a prerequisite for Improved Feint.
ressurrector 01-20-06, 12:56 AM	Combat Expertise is a prerequisite for Improved Feint. Oh, nevermind then, invisible blade is better.
Callista 01-20-06, 01:10 AM	in my group of player, when they do fighter they never give them an high score of INT, is it just me or I have a good reason to say that fighter with INT is fun and powerful even if you don't have much STRWell, yeah, if you're making an archer, it doesn't matter if you have much STR. And, of course, there's the INT 13 requirement for a lot of the nice tactical feats; 13 is not quite genius level, but it's nowhere near stupid, either. A good fighter needs to be able to think strategically, of course; so give him either a good INT or a good WIS. People give their fighters low INT because they want to maximize STR (or DEX) and CON, and possibly WIS. Those come before INT and CHA when there's a fighter being built. And, RP-wise, anyone with 18 INT would have been more inclined to become a wizard, with that sort of intelligence. Rogue, at least, if he's got a "hard luck" background. However: I would definitely give a Fighter at least 13 INT, for the feats, for the skill points, and because he's got to be able to use strategy and tactics. It's all about finding a balance between role-playing and powergaming: You want a PC who makes sense mechanically, while still making sense as a character in your story. A low-INT character is better off being a barbarian or sorcerer than a fighter, though I really wouldn't dump INT if I could help it--role-playing a low INT often means you miss out on all the puzzles, and I happen to like puzzles.
kraegor 01-20-06, 01:22 AM	Remember: There are several types of fighters. 1. Soldier... does what he is told when he is told, normally average to low int. 2. Seargent or leader type... average to high int/charisma. Leads a few men 3. Captain/Leutenant type.. Leads a lot of men, usually higher than average int/cha 4. Generals.. high charisma, high intelligence, great leader, excells in tactics Now those are just the military branches, you could go into Thug, Bandits, whatever but the fact remains the same, fighters can have a lot of intelligence if you want. My fighter in one campain had a 20 intelligence, 18 naturally and 2 from a tome. He was an expert battle tactition. I actually was allowed 5 minutes of real time before a battle to plan how I would spread out the party or command them what to do (when normally GM's don't allow you to plan much) Also, the extra +5 skill points a level where awesome..
konrad_the_tall 01-20-06, 02:31 AM	Yeh but, your forgeting you can't take inproved sunder without a big ass sword and high strengh otherwise it won't work. High Int fighter: I will feint you! I will trip you! I will disarm you I say you ragamuffin! ME: Sunder babY! (BAM!)
braindead345 01-20-06, 04:05 AM	Most fighters are dumb. Think about it-the rangers and spellcasters stay back and use ranged attacks. Most fighters are in hand-to-hand combat with big ugly monsters ready to eat them. The only ones dumber than the average fighter are the bards and monks. Bards drag musical instruments around and monks do the exact same thing as the average fighter only without armor and primative weapons.
Bruunwald 01-20-06, 01:09 PM	I'm a big fan of creative skill use, and am more comfortable playing smart characters, so I usually give my fighters higher-than-average Intelligence. If, for some reason, I can't, then at least I put something into Wisdom. It's hard for me to play an unwise or unlearned character for any great length of time. I prefer somebody who can think as well as fight. My current character, a warmage/fighter (rolled, not point buy) is... 14 12 13 12 10 16 ...after his first ability score bonus. He had to be more charismatic than intelligent, due to the warmage thingy. But it's a good example of how I like my characters: well-rounded. I'll always take a lot of decent stats over a couple huge ones. Next two ability increases go into Intelligence for this guy, for the feetz, the skillz, and oh yes, the warmage edge. To me, it's much more of a thrill to rely on wile and strategy to save my hide, than ridiculously high damage or gloriously out-of-control hit points.
tsuyoshikentsu 01-22-06, 02:35 AM	Most fighters are dumb. Think about it-the rangers and spellcasters stay back and use ranged attacks. Most fighters are in hand-to-hand combat with big ugly monsters ready to eat them. The only ones dumber than the average fighter are the bards and monks. Bards drag musical instruments around and monks do the exact same thing as the average fighter only without armor and primative weapons. Y'know, when you really think about it, he's got a point. Actually, this point was somewhat referenced by me over on the CharOp boards. As such, it has been titled Catch 339. (The point I made is that adventurers for doing things like this are obviously insane, but anyone who's sane enough to ask to leave his group on grounds of insanity is obviously sane enough ot continue adventuring.)
shadowfox628 01-22-06, 02:42 AM	Fighters are more into skill than brute strength.... If they want to be straight-up strength, barbarian is the way... However, a well made fighter can easily defeat a barbarian.
GenghisUber 01-22-06, 01:42 PM	I like to play fighters with decent INT scores ... not for the feats, but for the roleplaying. I like being out in front, in the thick of things with the monsters. I like coming up with a battle plan for our party and then saying "okay, this all depends on someone grappling the big, scary monster ... so I guess I'll do that." I've been playing DnD for 22 years now, so the novelty of dishing out tons of damage for no reason other than to dish out tons of damage wore off about a decade and a half ago.
JulesCARV 01-22-06, 02:10 PM	I think one of the things about fighters is that they could be anyone. Fighter isn't tied to an archetype as strongly as, say, ranger, barbarian, or wizard. A fighter could be dumb, or he could be very smart. Fighter is what you make of it, more than any other class. There are some things that strike me as a little bit odd, build-wise. For example, a charismatic druid seems out-of-place to me. Druids seem like they ought to be weird, reclusive people, covered in burrs with poorly groomed hair (note: not necessarily unhygeinic: just poorly groomed), who usually forget to make eye contact when talking to other people and tend to mumble sometimes. If you played a high-charisma druid, and did it well, then just ignore the above. I'm just saying, when I imagine a druid, I have a tough time imagining high charisma. However, a fighter seems to me like someone who could have any combination of stats, so long as he doesn't take big penalties in the physical stats. (a fighter with 18 intelligence seems fine to me (or one with 18 charisma, or whatever). A fighter with 8 constitution does seem weird. See my druid comment above).
FODUM 01-22-06, 02:46 PM	Kaguya Wrath, Kaguya bladecrow and Kaguya Rosiel-Sama
Eppek_the_Goblin 01-22-06, 02:54 PM	Since a fighter is arguably one of the easiest classes to play, the class usually falls to one of the newer or less experienced players at the table. The fighter is designed to bash in doors and thrash monsters. Players don't have to go through the books to find and memorize spells or even decide which skill would be most useful in any given situation. All they have to do is put themselves in between the rest of the party and the bad guys. This leads to all sorts of fun and interesting role playing scenarios, but it doesn't take a lot of strategy. New players who are still trying to master the game rules will like playing the role of basher. They feel that they are contributing to the party (and certainly they are), but they don't need to worry about what their character should be doing. And while there is nothing wrong with having a fighter with a high intelligence, keep in mind that there are a lot of other players in the party who are depending on the fighter to bash in the monster's skull before it has a chance to get to their more fragile characters. Most people understand that the fighter has a distinct role and responsibility in any party. Leave the thinking to the wizards and rogues and let the fighters do what they do best. The other players in your party will appreciate it.
DrMorganes 01-22-06, 03:03 PM	I think he meant "which" not witch .... hopefully the gods of grammer and spelling will smite everyone who doesn't obey them :P Sadly, this day and age have seen the twin gods Grammar and Spelling greatly reduced in both worshippers and power. Not much smiting happening these days... :(
JarathWulfenstein 01-22-06, 03:13 PM	ur teling mee it reely upsets mee too see al this goweeng on wen noe wun pays atenchun too this sort uv thing it can bee reely confyoozing. ...ok now that i have taken the liberty of ******* you all off in a suitably juvenile manner... personally, my fighter has equal marks in STR and DEX (17), and i made sure to give him high scores in WIS and INT (16 and 14 respectively, WIS would be 14, cept he's a lycan). really, the low scores i handed out were CON and CHA. i prefer my character to be introverted and cold (low CHA) but always planning and learning, intently studying everything behind grey eyes (good INT) and then knowing exactly how to use the information he knows (high WIS)
celtredleg 01-22-06, 08:44 PM	I like diferent things, not the same old thing ever time. Smart fighters are a bit different, but not that strange. One reason I like to roll stas, gives you a bit to put around in different areas instead of the same numbers you get all the time with point buy.
Morotis 01-22-06, 10:03 PM	when I build fighters (Which is rare) I make them like so: Highest Stat= Str 2nd highest= Dex 3rd highest= Con 4th= int 5th= Wis 6th= Cha and yes, in case you didn't notice, that's in the same order stats come in on the character sheet...
OctoberRaven 01-23-06, 01:53 AM	I prefer CON over DEX myself, and let the choice in armor reflex the fighter's DEX score. More CON equals more hit points, which means the fighter can afford to take more hits.
Bruenor CrimsonHammer 01-27-06, 07:50 PM	thank you all I think to that INT fighters are better and if you want to play STR fighter your better play a barbarian