Are these richard moves? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are these richard moves? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
UltimateReality
12-19-06, 02:13 PM Scenario #1: The group gets together for character creation. The DM makes it known they're seeking and will reward RP. Their character creation guidelines handout includes the following:

"Backstories are highly encouraged. Good things to include are: a physical or psychological description of your character, the reason s/he adventures, a goal for the character, and any party members, NPCs, or organizations your character has ties to.

Backstories are not "graded" on a basis of literary merit. I don't care if it's a 20 page novella neatly typed, or scrawled in point form on the back of a bar napkin. Heck, I'll even take dictation from you if you're uncomfortable writing."

Is it a richard move if, when the party meets again to play a week or two later, the DM awards those who have backstories that include points mentioned above one full character level?

Scenario #2: The DM has spent countless hours creating a homebrew, which is about 25 pages, single sided, and a fairly equal mix of fluff and crunch. The DM decides to hand each player a copy to read, or not, as they will, but includes somewhere deep in the fluff of each one: "Your special word is <something cute>. Mention the word to me before the first session."

Is it a richard move if the DM grants those players who found the sentence a magic item worth less than X gold pieces, where X is enough to get something cool, but not over-powered?

Interested in responses from both the DM and player side of this.
Morwen
12-19-06, 02:30 PM A full character level might be a bit excessive, but the magic item idea is cool; go for it :)
IdleAltruism
12-19-06, 02:40 PM It sounds good to me, a little bonus xp is always nice for casters. If your campaign is starting at 1st level it should probably just be a fluff item (Ring of Prestidigitation!) or something like a Ring of Glamer. Just make sure the players know there is a bonus if they do all of these things.
blackjackg
12-19-06, 02:56 PM I don't see any problems there. I've done this sort of thing before (at least the backstory for XP bit. Works out ok. I'd say rather than giving one full character level, give 750 xp or so. Enough that, combined with the XP from your first session, it'll hit second level. No one wants to dawdle around 1st level too long, it's only at second that most characters (at least most non-casters) come into their own.
High Octane
12-19-06, 04:10 PM No its not. Next question.

You arent requiring them to do anything. Of course a full character level might be too much, especially at low levels.
Shan_TheBabau_Burke
12-19-06, 04:12 PM That's a cool idea. It encourages players to make their characters real. Plus it gives them a little something extra to begin play with a bit of a boost.
UltimateReality
12-19-06, 05:17 PM However, what if you were a player who was too busy (due to work, school, moving, family life, etc.) to wade through 25 pages of flavour? Wouldn't you be upset if another player got a magic item cuz they had nothing better to do than read the whole thing?

What if you just couldn't THINK of a backstory for your character? Wouldn't you be POed if someone got a full level -- even 3/4 of a level -- for some chickenscrawl on a tattered scrap of newsprint?

Keep in mind, the DM didn't specifically say ahead of time that action X would result in reward Y, either -- just "RP is encouraged and will be rewarded."
High Octane
12-19-06, 06:15 PM However, what if you were a player who was too busy (due to work, school, moving, family life, etc.) to wade through 25 pages of flavour? Wouldn't you be upset if another player got a magic item cuz they had nothing better to do than read the whole thing?

What if you just couldn't THINK of a backstory for your character? Wouldn't you be POed if someone got a full level -- even 3/4 of a level -- for some chickenscrawl on a tattered scrap of newsprint?

Keep in mind, the DM didn't specifically say ahead of time that action X would result in reward Y, either -- just "RP is encouraged and will be rewarded."

25 pages? Who expects 25 pages for a character who has a 3% chance of dying every time he walks outside town for an hour?
DarkRhystar
12-19-06, 06:37 PM Characters should be rewarded in-game only by in-game actions.

The DM should be upfront and honest about all policies and rules before, during, and after games.

Two very simple tenets of DMing your DM should learn.
CowMasterTrojan
12-19-06, 06:47 PM Question 1: Yeah a level might be a bit of a richard move. Some xp for hard work is deserved though.

Question 2: No it's not. If the DM writes 25 pages, he darn well is justifyied in rewarding those that make his work worth it. A cool magic item that isnt overpowered is nothing that bad. I couldn't tell you how many times I've put together stuff that none of my players have read. Its annoying.
crow04
12-19-06, 07:00 PM what is a "richard move"?
UltimateReality
12-19-06, 07:17 PM 25 pages? Who expects 25 pages for a character who has a 3% chance of dying every time he walks outside town for an hour?Err, the 25 pages refers to the reading of the campaign setting.

The backstory is...like, the backstory.

Me need work less. -.-; (More time for D&D! :w00t: )

what is a "richard move"?Think of a common nickname for Richard. :)
High Octane
12-19-06, 08:40 PM Err, the 25 pages refers to the reading of the campaign setting.

Oh. 25 pages of reading?

Is there porn? Or explosions? Otherwise I wont make past page 3.
storm_wolf
12-19-06, 11:31 PM I would say no to both, for the character background, it isn't hard to just BS a few lines of information...

I was born, I grew up, I decided I liked punching people in the face, so I trained as a Fighter/Monk...

I was born, I grew up, I was picked on in school, so I became a Wizard/use my latent Sorcery and now Magic Missle all the bullies that used to pick on me.

I was born, I grew up, god talks to me, so I became a Cleric/Paladin.

And so on...

As for reading 25 pages, well, most people need something to read on the throne during their daily stop off to provide tribute...
Airos
12-20-06, 12:38 AM Scenario #1: The group gets together for character creation. The DM makes it known they're seeking and will reward RP. Their character creation guidelines handout includes the following:

"Backstories are highly encouraged. Good things to include are: a physical or psychological description of your character, the reason s/he adventures, a goal for the character, and any party members, NPCs, or organizations your character has ties to.

Backstories are not "graded" on a basis of literary merit. I don't care if it's a 20 page novella neatly typed, or scrawled in point form on the back of a bar napkin. Heck, I'll even take dictation from you if you're uncomfortable writing."

Is it a richard move if, when the party meets again to play a week or two later, the DM awards those who have backstories that include points mentioned above one full character level?

I actually played in a game like this once, although it was known up front that bringing certain things to the table got you bonuses. The DM said that we would each start out at 3rd level, and we would be using his own point buy system for stats. He said that certain things would give us extra points for the point buy, however. A character portrait would get us +2 points, a character background was +2 points, a logical connection to another PC would get us +1 per PC to a maximum of +2, a painted mini that looked like our character portrait was +1, a write up of our hometown was +1, family history was +1. Only a couple of us went full out for all 10 points, most people only got 5 or 6, and one guy refused to do anything other than bring a painted mini. It was an interesting twist that didn't put the people that didn't have the time to do everything, or didn't want to do everything, far behind the people that did. I wouldn't play around too much with XP myself, and I would rather bring the point up to my players beforehand, not just spring it on them at the last minute.

As far as it being a "Richard" move? I'm actually the kind of player that would work out a background, motivations, family history and relationships whether the DM wanted it or not, just so I as a player have a reference point as to what my character would do in an odd situation. In the above situation, I would be "rewarded" for what I always do anyways, so I would enjoy this from a DM. Even still, since the DM in the above situation did say up front that he/she was looking for story driven role-play opposed to hack-n-slash roll-play, and that RP would be rewarded, a player that doesn't want to, or doesn't have time to, be that involved in character background should be looking for a group that more closely fits his/her playing style instead of being upset that he/she is being treated "unfairly"

As a side note, however, is that this should be the rule for the rest of the campaign. Should a character die, and that player did not make up a background for that character, he/she should still be given the chance at the reward if they decide that this time around they will do the work, knowing that there is a reward for such behavior. Telling a player that they don't get the reward for the work just because they're only doing the work for the sake of the reward is a "Richard" move. That would be the same as my boss telling me I wasn't getting paid this week since I only come to my job to get paid. (Which is not true, BTW, since I also enjoy my job)

Scenario #2: The DM has spent countless hours creating a homebrew, which is about 25 pages, single sided, and a fairly equal mix of fluff and crunch. The DM decides to hand each player a copy to read, or not, as they will, but includes somewhere deep in the fluff of each one: "Your special word is <something cute>. Mention the word to me before the first session."

Is it a richard move if the DM grants those players who found the sentence a magic item worth less than X gold pieces, where X is enough to get something cool, but not over-powered?

Interested in responses from both the DM and player side of this.

I, as a DM, am currently in the process of writing up my own world book. I feel that, as a DM, it's my responsibility to inform players of what's different from the core books, as well as what common knowledge their characters would have so that there's no surprises when the stuff in the book comes into play. This avoids situations such as:

DM: Well, Bob, your actions, including stealing from shop, picking the pockets of the nobles and blackmailing the bartender, has drawn the attention of the local thieves' guild. They want 60% of your ill gotten gains or else. :waits:
Bob: What? :eek: You never said anything about a thieves' guild in this town! If I would have known that, I would have joined them as soon as we got here, if I wasn't a member already before I even started adventuring.
DM: Oh... well.... I was pretty sure I said something about that a few weeks ago.... :thinks:
Bob: I wasn't here then....:ahem:

All I would have to say is "you should have read the book, then".

Giving out rewards to players who show an interest in your game should always be rewarded, no matter what form it takes. After all, I've yet to game with a DM that didn't hand out bonus XP for role-playing, so I think adding in a cheap magic item to those that take the time to read the DM's handouts is a good way to encourage this trend through the rest of the campaign. I wouldn't, however, hand out much more than 200-300 GP in value at 1st level, so that the players that didn't take/have the time to read everything don't feel like they were shafted.

Just my :twocents:
Tyler Do'Urden
12-20-06, 01:32 AM It's... maneuver. The action formerly known as "a dick move" is to be refered to as a Richard maneuver.
KurenaiYami
12-20-06, 02:17 AM No its not. Next question.

You arent requiring them to do anything. Of course a full character level might be too much, especially at low levels.

Covers my views.
bhu
12-20-06, 07:44 PM Generally I've always felt that if you have to ask "is this a bad move" the answer is almost always yes, yes it is.
High Octane
12-20-06, 08:26 PM Generally I've always felt that if you have to ask "is this a bad move" the answer is almost always yes, yes it is.

Only this time, its not.
draco1119
12-21-06, 02:58 AM I've always found that 500XP for a page of backstory is worth it, for both the DM and the player. As for the magic item, go ahead and give them something cool. Give the rogue a Spool of Endless Rope or the ranger archer a Quiver of Ehlonna (ok, that's probably a little much). Just give them something cool if not powerful.
PHGraves
12-21-06, 09:26 AM 1) Not a full level. 500xp is fine. An alternate thought is to grant them a metagame bonus (a re-roll of one d20, one maximum damage roll, etc) instead. It's a cool benefit, but nothing that will make people feel left out.

2)By all means, do this. Heck, if you know what their characters are beforehand, you ma wish to simply place "your character starts with X, write it on your sheet" in the document.
RainerNader
12-21-06, 04:24 PM As I see it, the crux of the issue is this: you want invested players that would be willing to do things like put together a very detailed character background, or read your 25 page introduction on the world, and so forth. So how can you get your players to be as invested as you want them to be.

Positive reinforcement with XP or magic items is fine, but I would also make sure you communicate this with your players at the very beginning. Say something like, "I love having invested players that make the most of the world that I design for them, and I know it may be some extra work than your typical hack-and-slash D&D fare, but I do plan on rewarding everyone that puts in the work both in and out of character."

And there it is. Some players may want a more casual game and decide reading 25 page documents is something they're too busy with. Other players will love the world you've set up for them and would do the work even without any reward. But the important thing is to give those players 'on the fence' the chance to get invested from the very beginning. That way there are no outcries, "well I would have read your stupid documents if I knew I was getting 1000XP for it!"
danielinthewolvesden
12-21-06, 06:37 PM You know, it's a real pain in the donkey when you do one of those detailed backgrounds, and your PC dies 1st session.:raincloud
Mr. Beef
12-21-06, 07:41 PM For Point 1:

In a Forgotten Realms game I played 3 years ago the DM used to give us XP Based on how many pages we wrote of a backstory for our character. (I think a page was either 500 or 750 words)

He would give us a base amount of XP per page, say 50, and then we would multiply by our level, and viola you had bonus XP. Say I wrote 3 pages of backstory and was level 3:

150 x 3 = 450 XP

I would not reward the players with an extra level for their backstory whether it was one page or twenty pages. It's just not fair to those who do not want to do a backstory. Bonus XP yes, but a full level is just in my eyes, wrong.

Point #2:

It sounds like he should have given the setting out before character creation so the players would be able to know what classes would be available to the races that would be available.

Getting your players to read a setting of 25 single sided pages might be a bit much. I would condense it down to maybe 5 pages of all the important stuff like dieties, Classes, Races, a brief history of the land the players start in. These are things that would help them make a character.

As for giving them a magic item, as long as it's not something game breaking, but might be useful to the whole party. Like potions of Cure Light Wounds or scrolls of useful first level Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric spells.

Are they richard moves in the way that you gave them to us; I would say maybe. It just depends on who you ask.

I would say make a few adjustments to it and try again.

Just my 1/4 pound.

Mr. Beef
FntsyWlkr
12-26-06, 07:56 PM 1) I think that sounds awesome! But I think a full character level is too much, as well. I would say something useful but not overpowered. Suggestions: extra 100gp, +1 weapon, 2 potions ... something small but cool.

2) I think this sounds awesome too!

I really like those ideas!! I would reward them with small magical items that are useful, but no weapons.
AZNsupermarket
12-26-06, 08:16 PM My group has an awesome houserule, if you write or dictate to the dm any semblance of a character's backstory, he gets a free skill focus feat to a skill that makes sense for your character. It's not that hard to do, and if you don't, you don't have to worry too much because it's only a +3 to a skill.
Onikani
12-26-06, 09:11 PM both are fine.
If you're bitter because you didn't create a background, and you didn't read the book, well then you are probably in the wrong campaign.
Fifteen minutes of your time was all it woulda taken. If you are soo busy with school and finals that you can't think of a background in between classes, or hell in the shower, then you don't have time to be playing dnd.

Futhermore, I applaud that DM for using a creative way to screen the players to see if they are the type that will work in his world.
Go him, those are yoinked.
Braids
12-27-06, 05:32 AM Both are fine.

In fact I think I will use both ideas.
Rim-Soulfang
12-27-06, 09:27 AM I agree, while one level might be a bit much, both are good.
High Octane
12-27-06, 12:54 PM You know, it's a real pain in the donkey when you do one of those detailed backgrounds, and your PC dies 1st session.:raincloud

I heard that.
Warduke
12-27-06, 06:17 PM I like both ideas. The full level is not too much IMHO. If the players have a DM that has spent his time to work out a 25 page writeup of the world, the players that refuse to read it are either....

a) lazy and rude
b) not that interested a compeling RP experience

either way this is a good way to weed out the guys that don't fit the style of player you are looking for. For the players that invest in their backstory I bet 100 GP they dont die first session, (since they are level 2 :cool: )

Character investment is what makes for good D&D. The guy that already has his backup character rolled up and spec'd out is the same guy that won't submit a character backstory. He is also the guy who usually never backs down from a fight and makes the game world less believable.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
UltimateReality 12-19-06, 02:13 PM	Scenario #1: The group gets together for character creation. The DM makes it known they're seeking and will reward RP. Their character creation guidelines handout includes the following: "Backstories are highly encouraged. Good things to include are: a physical or psychological description of your character, the reason s/he adventures, a goal for the character, and any party members, NPCs, or organizations your character has ties to. Backstories are not "graded" on a basis of literary merit. I don't care if it's a 20 page novella neatly typed, or scrawled in point form on the back of a bar napkin. Heck, I'll even take dictation from you if you're uncomfortable writing." Is it a richard move if, when the party meets again to play a week or two later, the DM awards those who have backstories that include points mentioned above one full character level? Scenario #2: The DM has spent countless hours creating a homebrew, which is about 25 pages, single sided, and a fairly equal mix of fluff and crunch. The DM decides to hand each player a copy to read, or not, as they will, but includes somewhere deep in the fluff of each one: "Your special word is <something cute>. Mention the word to me before the first session." Is it a richard move if the DM grants those players who found the sentence a magic item worth less than X gold pieces, where X is enough to get something cool, but not over-powered? Interested in responses from both the DM and player side of this.
Morwen 12-19-06, 02:30 PM	A full character level might be a bit excessive, but the magic item idea is cool; go for it :)
IdleAltruism 12-19-06, 02:40 PM	It sounds good to me, a little bonus xp is always nice for casters. If your campaign is starting at 1st level it should probably just be a fluff item (Ring of Prestidigitation!) or something like a Ring of Glamer. Just make sure the players know there is a bonus if they do all of these things.
blackjackg 12-19-06, 02:56 PM	I don't see any problems there. I've done this sort of thing before (at least the backstory for XP bit. Works out ok. I'd say rather than giving one full character level, give 750 xp or so. Enough that, combined with the XP from your first session, it'll hit second level. No one wants to dawdle around 1st level too long, it's only at second that most characters (at least most non-casters) come into their own.
High Octane 12-19-06, 04:10 PM	No its not. Next question. You arent requiring them to do anything. Of course a full character level might be too much, especially at low levels.
Shan_TheBabau_Burke 12-19-06, 04:12 PM	That's a cool idea. It encourages players to make their characters real. Plus it gives them a little something extra to begin play with a bit of a boost.
UltimateReality 12-19-06, 05:17 PM	However, what if you were a player who was too busy (due to work, school, moving, family life, etc.) to wade through 25 pages of flavour? Wouldn't you be upset if another player got a magic item cuz they had nothing better to do than read the whole thing? What if you just couldn't THINK of a backstory for your character? Wouldn't you be POed if someone got a full level -- even 3/4 of a level -- for some chickenscrawl on a tattered scrap of newsprint? Keep in mind, the DM didn't specifically say ahead of time that action X would result in reward Y, either -- just "RP is encouraged and will be rewarded."
High Octane 12-19-06, 06:15 PM	However, what if you were a player who was too busy (due to work, school, moving, family life, etc.) to wade through 25 pages of flavour? Wouldn't you be upset if another player got a magic item cuz they had nothing better to do than read the whole thing? What if you just couldn't THINK of a backstory for your character? Wouldn't you be POed if someone got a full level -- even 3/4 of a level -- for some chickenscrawl on a tattered scrap of newsprint? Keep in mind, the DM didn't specifically say ahead of time that action X would result in reward Y, either -- just "RP is encouraged and will be rewarded." 25 pages? Who expects 25 pages for a character who has a 3% chance of dying every time he walks outside town for an hour?
DarkRhystar 12-19-06, 06:37 PM	Characters should be rewarded in-game only by in-game actions. The DM should be upfront and honest about all policies and rules before, during, and after games. Two very simple tenets of DMing your DM should learn.
CowMasterTrojan 12-19-06, 06:47 PM	Question 1: Yeah a level might be a bit of a richard move. Some xp for hard work is deserved though. Question 2: No it's not. If the DM writes 25 pages, he darn well is justifyied in rewarding those that make his work worth it. A cool magic item that isnt overpowered is nothing that bad. I couldn't tell you how many times I've put together stuff that none of my players have read. Its annoying.
crow04 12-19-06, 07:00 PM	what is a "richard move"?
UltimateReality 12-19-06, 07:17 PM	25 pages? Who expects 25 pages for a character who has a 3% chance of dying every time he walks outside town for an hour?Err, the 25 pages refers to the reading of the campaign setting. The backstory is...like, the backstory. Me need work less. -.-; (More time for D&D! :w00t: ) what is a "richard move"?Think of a common nickname for Richard. :)
High Octane 12-19-06, 08:40 PM	Err, the 25 pages refers to the reading of the campaign setting. Oh. 25 pages of reading? Is there porn? Or explosions? Otherwise I wont make past page 3.
storm_wolf 12-19-06, 11:31 PM	I would say no to both, for the character background, it isn't hard to just BS a few lines of information... I was born, I grew up, I decided I liked punching people in the face, so I trained as a Fighter/Monk... I was born, I grew up, I was picked on in school, so I became a Wizard/use my latent Sorcery and now Magic Missle all the bullies that used to pick on me. I was born, I grew up, god talks to me, so I became a Cleric/Paladin. And so on... As for reading 25 pages, well, most people need something to read on the throne during their daily stop off to provide tribute...
Airos 12-20-06, 12:38 AM	Scenario #1: The group gets together for character creation. The DM makes it known they're seeking and will reward RP. Their character creation guidelines handout includes the following: "Backstories are highly encouraged. Good things to include are: a physical or psychological description of your character, the reason s/he adventures, a goal for the character, and any party members, NPCs, or organizations your character has ties to. Backstories are not "graded" on a basis of literary merit. I don't care if it's a 20 page novella neatly typed, or scrawled in point form on the back of a bar napkin. Heck, I'll even take dictation from you if you're uncomfortable writing." Is it a richard move if, when the party meets again to play a week or two later, the DM awards those who have backstories that include points mentioned above one full character level? I actually played in a game like this once, although it was known up front that bringing certain things to the table got you bonuses. The DM said that we would each start out at 3rd level, and we would be using his own point buy system for stats. He said that certain things would give us extra points for the point buy, however. A character portrait would get us +2 points, a character background was +2 points, a logical connection to another PC would get us +1 per PC to a maximum of +2, a painted mini that looked like our character portrait was +1, a write up of our hometown was +1, family history was +1. Only a couple of us went full out for all 10 points, most people only got 5 or 6, and one guy refused to do anything other than bring a painted mini. It was an interesting twist that didn't put the people that didn't have the time to do everything, or didn't want to do everything, far behind the people that did. I wouldn't play around too much with XP myself, and I would rather bring the point up to my players beforehand, not just spring it on them at the last minute. As far as it being a "Richard" move? I'm actually the kind of player that would work out a background, motivations, family history and relationships whether the DM wanted it or not, just so I as a player have a reference point as to what my character would do in an odd situation. In the above situation, I would be "rewarded" for what I always do anyways, so I would enjoy this from a DM. Even still, since the DM in the above situation did say up front that he/she was looking for story driven role-play opposed to hack-n-slash roll-play, and that RP would be rewarded, a player that doesn't want to, or doesn't have time to, be that involved in character background should be looking for a group that more closely fits his/her playing style instead of being upset that he/she is being treated "unfairly" As a side note, however, is that this should be the rule for the rest of the campaign. Should a character die, and that player did not make up a background for that character, he/she should still be given the chance at the reward if they decide that this time around they will do the work, knowing that there is a reward for such behavior. Telling a player that they don't get the reward for the work just because they're only doing the work for the sake of the reward is a "Richard" move. That would be the same as my boss telling me I wasn't getting paid this week since I only come to my job to get paid. (Which is not true, BTW, since I also enjoy my job) Scenario #2: The DM has spent countless hours creating a homebrew, which is about 25 pages, single sided, and a fairly equal mix of fluff and crunch. The DM decides to hand each player a copy to read, or not, as they will, but includes somewhere deep in the fluff of each one: "Your special word is <something cute>. Mention the word to me before the first session." Is it a richard move if the DM grants those players who found the sentence a magic item worth less than X gold pieces, where X is enough to get something cool, but not over-powered? Interested in responses from both the DM and player side of this. I, as a DM, am currently in the process of writing up my own world book. I feel that, as a DM, it's my responsibility to inform players of what's different from the core books, as well as what common knowledge their characters would have so that there's no surprises when the stuff in the book comes into play. This avoids situations such as: DM: Well, Bob, your actions, including stealing from shop, picking the pockets of the nobles and blackmailing the bartender, has drawn the attention of the local thieves' guild. They want 60% of your ill gotten gains or else. :waits: Bob: What? :eek: You never said anything about a thieves' guild in this town! If I would have known that, I would have joined them as soon as we got here, if I wasn't a member already before I even started adventuring. DM: Oh... well.... I was pretty sure I said something about that a few weeks ago.... :thinks: Bob: I wasn't here then....:ahem: All I would have to say is "you should have read the book, then". Giving out rewards to players who show an interest in your game should always be rewarded, no matter what form it takes. After all, I've yet to game with a DM that didn't hand out bonus XP for role-playing, so I think adding in a cheap magic item to those that take the time to read the DM's handouts is a good way to encourage this trend through the rest of the campaign. I wouldn't, however, hand out much more than 200-300 GP in value at 1st level, so that the players that didn't take/have the time to read everything don't feel like they were shafted. Just my :twocents:
Tyler Do'Urden 12-20-06, 01:32 AM	It's... maneuver. The action formerly known as "a dick move" is to be refered to as a Richard maneuver.
KurenaiYami 12-20-06, 02:17 AM	No its not. Next question. You arent requiring them to do anything. Of course a full character level might be too much, especially at low levels. Covers my views.
bhu 12-20-06, 07:44 PM	Generally I've always felt that if you have to ask "is this a bad move" the answer is almost always yes, yes it is.
High Octane 12-20-06, 08:26 PM	Generally I've always felt that if you have to ask "is this a bad move" the answer is almost always yes, yes it is. Only this time, its not.
draco1119 12-21-06, 02:58 AM	I've always found that 500XP for a page of backstory is worth it, for both the DM and the player. As for the magic item, go ahead and give them something cool. Give the rogue a Spool of Endless Rope or the ranger archer a Quiver of Ehlonna (ok, that's probably a little much). Just give them something cool if not powerful.
PHGraves 12-21-06, 09:26 AM	1) Not a full level. 500xp is fine. An alternate thought is to grant them a metagame bonus (a re-roll of one d20, one maximum damage roll, etc) instead. It's a cool benefit, but nothing that will make people feel left out. 2)By all means, do this. Heck, if you know what their characters are beforehand, you ma wish to simply place "your character starts with X, write it on your sheet" in the document.
RainerNader 12-21-06, 04:24 PM	As I see it, the crux of the issue is this: you want invested players that would be willing to do things like put together a very detailed character background, or read your 25 page introduction on the world, and so forth. So how can you get your players to be as invested as you want them to be. Positive reinforcement with XP or magic items is fine, but I would also make sure you communicate this with your players at the very beginning. Say something like, "I love having invested players that make the most of the world that I design for them, and I know it may be some extra work than your typical hack-and-slash D&D fare, but I do plan on rewarding everyone that puts in the work both in and out of character." And there it is. Some players may want a more casual game and decide reading 25 page documents is something they're too busy with. Other players will love the world you've set up for them and would do the work even without any reward. But the important thing is to give those players 'on the fence' the chance to get invested from the very beginning. That way there are no outcries, "well I would have read your stupid documents if I knew I was getting 1000XP for it!"
danielinthewolvesden 12-21-06, 06:37 PM	You know, it's a real pain in the donkey when you do one of those detailed backgrounds, and your PC dies 1st session.:raincloud
Mr. Beef 12-21-06, 07:41 PM	For Point 1: In a Forgotten Realms game I played 3 years ago the DM used to give us XP Based on how many pages we wrote of a backstory for our character. (I think a page was either 500 or 750 words) He would give us a base amount of XP per page, say 50, and then we would multiply by our level, and viola you had bonus XP. Say I wrote 3 pages of backstory and was level 3: 150 x 3 = 450 XP I would not reward the players with an extra level for their backstory whether it was one page or twenty pages. It's just not fair to those who do not want to do a backstory. Bonus XP yes, but a full level is just in my eyes, wrong. Point #2: It sounds like he should have given the setting out before character creation so the players would be able to know what classes would be available to the races that would be available. Getting your players to read a setting of 25 single sided pages might be a bit much. I would condense it down to maybe 5 pages of all the important stuff like dieties, Classes, Races, a brief history of the land the players start in. These are things that would help them make a character. As for giving them a magic item, as long as it's not something game breaking, but might be useful to the whole party. Like potions of Cure Light Wounds or scrolls of useful first level Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric spells. Are they richard moves in the way that you gave them to us; I would say maybe. It just depends on who you ask. I would say make a few adjustments to it and try again. Just my 1/4 pound. Mr. Beef
FntsyWlkr 12-26-06, 07:56 PM	1) I think that sounds awesome! But I think a full character level is too much, as well. I would say something useful but not overpowered. Suggestions: extra 100gp, +1 weapon, 2 potions ... something small but cool. 2) I think this sounds awesome too! I really like those ideas!! I would reward them with small magical items that are useful, but no weapons.
AZNsupermarket 12-26-06, 08:16 PM	My group has an awesome houserule, if you write or dictate to the dm any semblance of a character's backstory, he gets a free skill focus feat to a skill that makes sense for your character. It's not that hard to do, and if you don't, you don't have to worry too much because it's only a +3 to a skill.
Onikani 12-26-06, 09:11 PM	both are fine. If you're bitter because you didn't create a background, and you didn't read the book, well then you are probably in the wrong campaign. Fifteen minutes of your time was all it woulda taken. If you are soo busy with school and finals that you can't think of a background in between classes, or hell in the shower, then you don't have time to be playing dnd. Futhermore, I applaud that DM for using a creative way to screen the players to see if they are the type that will work in his world. Go him, those are yoinked.
Braids 12-27-06, 05:32 AM	Both are fine. In fact I think I will use both ideas.
Rim-Soulfang 12-27-06, 09:27 AM	I agree, while one level might be a bit much, both are good.
High Octane 12-27-06, 12:54 PM	You know, it's a real pain in the donkey when you do one of those detailed backgrounds, and your PC dies 1st session.:raincloud I heard that.
Warduke 12-27-06, 06:17 PM	I like both ideas. The full level is not too much IMHO. If the players have a DM that has spent his time to work out a 25 page writeup of the world, the players that refuse to read it are either.... a) lazy and rude b) not that interested a compeling RP experience either way this is a good way to weed out the guys that don't fit the style of player you are looking for. For the players that invest in their backstory I bet 100 GP they dont die first session, (since they are level 2 :cool: ) Character investment is what makes for good D&D. The guy that already has his backup character rolled up and spec'd out is the same guy that won't submit a character backstory. He is also the guy who usually never backs down from a fight and makes the game world less believable.