Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMaster42 12-29-05, 06:06 PM	i once played in a game with a dangerous DM. He killed 3 characters, 2 of them of the same Player, in one adventure! There was an Adult Black Dragon! In a 1st LEVEL DUNGEON! There is something seriouly wrong with that!
Cold Napalm 12-29-05, 06:54 PM	Bah the worst I ever did was send a wyrmling red against a first level party...that charged at them yelling food in draconic.
Feor 12-29-05, 07:36 PM	I've used an Elder Red Dragon against a first level party before. But it was intended to keep them away from a certain area until higher in the adventure instead of an actual encounter, but the rogue decided he could take it. I suggested strongly that he shouldn't, he seemed to think I wouldn't let his char die. NO DM can fudge an encounter that much and still retain his self-respect, IMHO. :P
Cold Napalm 12-29-05, 07:49 PM	I've used an Elder Red Dragon against a first level party before. But it was intended to keep them away from a certain area until higher in the adventure instead of an actual encounter, but the rogue decided he could take it. I suggested strongly that he shouldn't, he seemed to think I wouldn't let his char die. NO DM can fudge an encounter that much and still retain his self-respect, IMHO. :P Party: We want to go to the castle and kill the evil overlord... Me: There is a huge army of skeletons between the town and the castle. Party: How many? Me: Thousands. Party cleric: They're only skeletons how bad can they be, lets go. Me: Are you sure? The field is full of them. Party: yeah. Me: Okay... They died horribly.
WeZil 12-30-05, 01:42 AM	Level 3 Barbarian: What is it? DM: It's a dire badger, and it looks direly angry. Level 3 Barbarian: Hoho, it'll look direly red soon, I'm charging. DM: Roll initiative. Barbarian rolls a 14: 14 plus 3... 17! DM: You go first. Barbarian charges and rolls a 2. Complete whiff: Nut... Oh well, I'll get him next round. DM: Allrighty.. aaanndd... DM rolls a 20. Rolls to confirm and rolls a 18. DM pulls out the percentile Critical Hit chart and makes a percentile roll, then grimaces. HOrribley. DM: Make a fortitude save. Barbarian rolls a 3: Umm... 8. DM: The dire badger leaps towards your throat and rips it out, killing you instantly. Barbarian: ... Yep. That was a hillarious night. Sure it doesn't fit in line with the thread, but my DM does crap like this allll the tiiime.
Duration_10_Rounds 12-30-05, 02:01 AM	Im only dangerous DM if my players get the notion that every thing they run into must be defeatable because D&D games are like well balanced video games . Re the blackdragon in the lvl 1 dungeon, if the DM forced you to fight it to proceed then thats just bad DMing... if it was fast asleep and the party got a glimpse of it and they where given the option to leave it be (the sensible option), sneak up and grab some treasure (the stupid option) or the run in and kill it (the suicidal option) then its the parties fault. A DM cant protray a "realistic" fantsasy world if every dungeon you happen to fall into just so happens to be sublimliey crafted to your parties skill sets... just as long as it is completable and fun... the players dont need to kill every dragon or open every chest to get out of a dungeon alive (the main goal)... somthing too many player seem to forget, they seem to assume a dungeon is an XP and loot farm.
Pandaemoni 12-30-05, 02:11 AM	I once came across Baba Yaga's hut as a fifth level character, and (having no idea who "Baba Yaga" was, let alonge that she was some sort of semi-demigod) decided she was a witch that I had to kill. Total combat time before death: six seconds.
Elrin 12-30-05, 03:03 AM	As a player who just started DMing, I've decided that I'm the most dangerous I've ran across. Not because I throw completely suicidal stuff at them, but because I did something none of my other DMs ever really did.. brought in Crit hit tables. In the course of only a couple adventures I've had one player gutte by anohter.. within the first 20 minutes. Both first level but a crit failure wiht a roll on the chart that had him hit the nearest friend and add anohter multiplier to his crit... plus max damage.... it was nasty, 30 is damage to a ranger who only had about 5 or 6 hp left.. Then, next adventure same player crit fails again and manages to drop the new fighter(same player htat got gutted as a ranger) to the negatives. They conveniently found a healing potion and charged the BBEG of the small dungeon I had set for them. Fighter hits hard, takes BBEG down by half his HP.. then BBEG crits, adds a crit multiplier and rolls max damage with his maul.. squishes the fighter. Then the original player crits fails again and hits himself.. nearly kills himself before the BBEG goes down... so, in a long winded rambling sort of way I must declare that crit tables, while fun, are evil for the players :)
NinjaE 12-30-05, 07:01 AM	Crit tables that allow you to hit yourself are, by nearly unanimous decision, of the Devil. However, to the original topic... Well, I haven't gotten far enough in the adventure to really get an average, but so far we've already had the (mounted) pc's attacked by an army of lemures. Now, for the unawares, lemures are slower than an unmounted pc, so they didn't have much trouble getting away, but if any of them had displayed the typical "it's ugly and moving, therefore we can kill it" mentality, they'd have been in for a harsh awakening.
digoraccoon 12-30-05, 08:49 AM	Yikes... forcing a low level party to take on a huge challenge is pure evil. :) If I put a CR14 dragon in a 1st level dungeon, its a safe bet that the dragon isn't there solely to kill off the players. I've had high level dragons encounter low level PCs and it's so much more fun to just talk to them and rattle their brains with paranoia. :D I'm a nice DM by most standards and I dislike forcing the PCs to fight any battle unless it has a specific reason to be that way. Or better yet, I love to strike a deal with the PCs using powerful characters! Black Dragon: "Tell ya what, you go over to prince Gough's castle and retreive the book he stole from me and I'll let you live... you can even keep salvage rights on anything else in the castle." I have yet had any PC question why she doesn't do it herself or use high level minions. Of course any PC who does fight a high level creature even after I have given them fair warning to their challenge raiting is dinner. :) As FEOR said, "NO DM can fudge an encounter that much and still retain his self-respect".
On_the_wings_of_TPK 12-30-05, 10:13 AM	As a player who just started DMing, I've decided that I'm the most dangerous I've ran across. Not because I throw completely suicidal stuff at them, but because I did something none of my other DMs ever really did.. brought in Crit hit tables. In the course of only a couple adventures I've had one player gutte by anohter.. within the first 20 minutes. Both first level but a crit failure wiht a roll on the chart that had him hit the nearest friend and add anohter multiplier to his crit... plus max damage.... it was nasty, 30 is damage to a ranger who only had about 5 or 6 hp left.. Then, next adventure same player crit fails again and manages to drop the new fighter(same player htat got gutted as a ranger) to the negatives. They conveniently found a healing potion and charged the BBEG of the small dungeon I had set for them. Fighter hits hard, takes BBEG down by half his HP.. then BBEG crits, adds a crit multiplier and rolls max damage with his maul.. squishes the fighter. Then the original player crits fails again and hits himself.. nearly kills himself before the BBEG goes down... so, in a long winded rambling sort of way I must declare that crit tables, while fun, are evil for the players :) This is a perfect examle of why crit charts, failour or success are a badd thing. I can't imagine this being very fun for the players.
BarTndr 12-30-05, 10:18 AM	I agree with Duration. Its not about being a dangerous DM. If you set up a 'realistic fantasy world' (I love that line), then not all things will be relative to the party's power level. I don't build 'level 1' dungeons. I make ones that have a reputation for having some danger level. And then populate it. If a level 1 party decides to go into the old ruins that have been described as a death trap, then that is their choice. Sure, the first couple rooms in have been cleared and weaker foes have come to settle in the now open spaces... but.. that does not mean the liche at the end of the hall will be so happy to see them. I like the dragon's use, but, at the same time I like to use them very rarely (sort of keeping them somewhat mythical). Course, a ow level party should recognize that even something like a golem or wight might be outside their abilities. Course, even in urban settings, how many times has a party of level 2/3 character been cocky in talking back to the town guard or the magistrates? Those are the times I find it trickiest how to keep the players acting with reasonable behavior. If you went to the mall, you would not expect to beat the hell out of a security guy and then get off scott free - you know the local PD is sending in a couple officers, and you're their b*tch. So long as you are consistent, and even handed, once the players understand how you run, they will be quite OK with it. And if not, its always a nice escape to have an evening where you eat pizza and hang out and BS while everyone draws up new characters.
nastynate 12-30-05, 11:25 AM	I think the setting has much more believablity if there are things out there that the PCs cannot challenge. Sure a Death knight and his skeletal army may devestate a town when the PCs are only first level, but they aren't expected to confront him right then. After a while the PCs may have gained enough levels and accumulated enough intelligence about their foe to eventually confront him. likewise I think that if every encounter is perfectly cusomized to meet the exact challenge rating of the PCs things seem a little too linear. I like the PCs to have to make intelligent decisions about which things they should tackle and when. I want my PCs to occasionally go into a dungeon and find out it's loaded with traps, even though they don't have a rogue. Then they have to find a person who can help them or learn a new skill in order to overcome the challenge. Likewise I have no problem throwing encounters at them that are a complete cakewalk. If a small town is regularly raided by goblins, and the tenth level PCs want to stop them, great. But that doesn't mean every goblin needs five class levels. Sometimes it's nice for the PCs to smack around lesser foes. They'll feel powerful, and perhaps underestimate a future villain. A realistic fantasy setting, contradiction though it may seem, is not a misnomer. Some places in a setting should have fixed encounters, for the sake of continuity. There should be a known dragon lair in a high mountain, and a forest road regularly attacked by badits, and a swamp crawling with trolls. The level of the PCs should not imply that the entire world has to be adjusted and changed to mirror them. A harsh DM forces the PCs into situations where they have to face challenges they cannot overcome. A good DM put's those same challenges in the world, but steers the PCs towards the ones they can.
Jodjod 12-30-05, 11:36 AM	Well, usually I'm quite sensible, but awhile back I had plans to face a 2nd level party against a group of undead-ogres. I doubt that would have turned out too favourably if they stuck around and fought.
ravenspawn 12-30-05, 12:04 PM	I think my players would say I'm a dangerous DM. :devil: I like to use tactics for most NPCs. Recently, my players went up against 3 drow vampires(Ftr-8 each), i didnt raise their levels, they were just smart (using their swarms of spiders & bats, casting their darkness sp abilities...), PCs won but it was a close thing, especially after 2 drider-vampires attacked them right after that. :plotting: I even threw an Alhoon (mindflayer lich/sorceror ECL 16) at them when they were 6th level, almost a TPK before the creature buggered off :evillaugh
krichaiushii 12-30-05, 12:24 PM	I've found that playing NPCs and opponents wisely - using tactics, feats, minions, and magic items to the best of the opponents' intelligence - often equates into a reputation of being a dangerous DM. Just like in real life, running away or talking your way out of trouble is very often a viable option to fighting and dying in place. The sooner players realize this, the better off they will be - and the sooner a DM's reputation shifts from being dangerous to being challenging. And yes, I am a dangerous DM. :evillaugh
havershame_swordflinger 12-30-05, 02:12 PM	One of my favorite DMs is dangerous. He would start most sesions with :evillaugh and a threat that people would die to night. (He viewed the game as DM v. Players) Most nights he we were narrowly able to thwort him, some times to great shock and dismay on his part. By the end of it though we only had one PC that never died (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8093367&postcount=291).
Abulafia 12-30-05, 03:39 PM	The most dangerous thing a DM can do is to play NPC combatants as if they have brains, goals, and a desire to remain alive.
ravenspawn 12-30-05, 04:01 PM	I've found that playing NPCs and opponents wisely - using tactics, feats, minions, and magic items to the best of the opponents' intelligence - often equates into a reputation of being a dangerous DM. Just like in real life, running away or talking your way out of trouble is very often a viable option to fighting and dying in place. The sooner players realize this, the better off they will be - and the sooner a DM's reputation shifts from being dangerous to being challenging. And yes, I am a dangerous DM. :evillaugh My players have had a few occasions to parlay with NPCs instead of fighting and they still felt like is was a rewarding encounter. And it's not always been against more powerfull npcs. I enjoy running these encounters, especially when a players who doesn't get to flex the role-playing muscle that often.
ressurrector 12-30-05, 07:53 PM	Well, I was doing a 1-shot campaign: 3 characters in Area J of the worlds largest dungeon, ECL 16 characters. Cleric/Elemental Savant(with Disable Device), Warforged Fighter(supa-tank), Scout/Weretouched master(fighter, search/spot) So, the cleric decides to rest partway through the second area, since he's been busting out his high lvl spells for kicks, the scout/weretouched master says that's ok. The Warforged Fighter goes off to kill some more fleshies (this is about a 13th lvl area, since only 3 characters) He starts walking down this trapped corridor. me: you see two statues, their eyes gleam with gems. Ftr: wow, a trap, I go up with my shield in front of me and stab my sword into the floor. me: (rolling) roll reflex saves, two of them. Ftr: ok, 20 and a 24 me: you make them, you take 2 lightning bolts for about 10 dmg past resistance.(he had a ring of resist lightning) Frt: I start slashing at the statues. me: you can't hurt them much. Ftr: ok, I go own the corridor. me: roll reflex saves (it was 2 rounds since first lightning) Ftr: .........I make both Me. take another 9 pts, they shot you again with lightning. me: don't blame me, it's right here in the book! Ftr: fine, I walk along the corridor, looking for fleshies to splat. (walks past some disabled statues, and one more that deals like 2 dmg to him) me: (looking at book, sounding apologetic) make a reflex save Ftr: 17 me: ouch, you take (3d6) 14 dmg as strong winds push you away from the statue....towards the river of lava, make a str check (trying to save him, DC20, he has +8 str mod) Ftr: 18 me: you fall into the lava...make a reflex save (he has +8, DC15) to grab the side of the shore. Ftr: 13, I'm dead aren't I? me: :bored: swim checks? before you melt? Ftr: fails 3 straight DC 15 swim checks. me: :uh-huh: yeah, now you're dead....
sooperspook 12-30-05, 09:57 PM	I tend to be harsh as a DM. I dont look to kill the PCs but they tend to die fairly often, even when i'm using standard , straight out of the book, Dungeon mag adventures. I think its because my players tend to just charge in without any real plan of battle. Funnily enough when I'm a player and not DM we triumph even though we go up against really tough encounters. In our current game we've gone up against CR11 spiders (we were 6 lvl) and won, a pair of trolls (we were 7lvl) and vrock(we were 7 lvl). but the damn groups of organized goblins nearly did us in! (rassin frassin spellcasters!).
James18 01-01-06, 01:36 AM	A really dangerous thing to do is play monsters smarter then they are. Often they are played damn near stupid. Another one would be not having a party equiped to take out DR or regeneration and sending thouse monsters against the party. A pair of trolls that ran away only to come back 10 min later fully healed are what killed our party. No one had fire attacks and we couldn:t run away. 3 level 6 charters. We did point out that they are fearless says so in the book. Not even fire will deter them. DM meh. :evillaugh
ravenspawn 01-02-06, 10:53 AM	As a first encounter of a new city based campaign, I sent a goblin-wererat at them. None of them had silver weapons but "Rizzo" was a coward & they {the PCs} managed to capture him when he turned to rat form, by dropping a large tankard on him. He could have killed all the PCs but he was a CPD (Cheap Plot Device) to give out info to them. I had fun running the encounter as they were all frantically running around the tavern. :heehee
Harold DeVor 01-02-06, 04:50 PM	I can be quite dangerous. I used to play with a bunch of RM which taught me more about light infantry tactics that I would ever want to know. So if I forget myself and the group hasn't had this depth of knowledge then massacres will happen. This also ecplains my aversion to minitures, no one should have that grasp of the local situation.
Talonz 01-02-06, 05:08 PM	Apparently I am. Total pcs killed so far? 9. Average party level? 3. What can I say? Smart and evil creature/npcs will act appropriate to their smartness/evilness.
Earthbeard 01-02-06, 06:50 PM	Well my party told me on news years eve i am the DM from some nasty place. I almost got a TPK, 3 of the 5 died, the other two ran with less than 10 hp's each, one more round and the large water elemental would have got them. Shortly after the new "PC's" arrive to see the remainign two members arguing, a fight breaks out, the new pc's side with the humna, not the elf....the elf summosn two olwbear skeletons and they proceed to annihalte 2 of the party, while the other two blinded by spells bumble around. The elf thankfully decides to run away, low on spells and hp's, flee's leaving the newish party crippled. It was good start to the new year.......i swear.