Post/Author/DateTime	Post
voodoo8476 03-07-08, 12:09 AM	OK So I am building a fighter / sorcerer who wants to focus on touch attacks. Here is an example as to what I want but am unsure the combat rules allow it. Sorcerer would cast shocking grasp and hold charge Can this be done while weilding a weapon? Then attempt to Trip attack opponent with flail. Would hitting opponent with weapon discharge the touch spell? Then using Improved trip make an immediate melee attack (this being the off hand that holds the Shocking grasp spell) Thats how I want it to work :) I think it cant, but the weapon throws a grey area into the rules for me. A Any Advice/help/clarification would be great. Thanks
sin shai, nagai jedi 03-07-08, 12:50 AM	casting spell while holding weapon = yes dischargeing spell with a weapon attack = no attack and then discharge a spell = no, unless you have quick casting and i dont think you can even "hold the charge" for spells like this, i may be wrong. it sounds like what your looking for is the duskblade base class form the PHB2 they have a specific class ability for what you want to do called channel spell.
Elsydeon 03-07-08, 01:10 AM	It makes sense to me, though using the off hand for the touch I'd probably rule is TWF w/ a light weapon and apply relevant penalties. As long as you could cast/hold the charge I don't see a problem. I know you can cast 1 handed, so it's just a matter of finding the right spells. Admittedly that's DM instinct and not RAW. I don't know that you'll find RAW explicitly covering this, though.
wizarddog 03-07-08, 01:44 AM	OK So I am building a fighter / sorcerer who wants to focus on touch attacks. Here is an example as to what I want but am unsure the combat rules allow it. Sorcerer would cast shocking grasp and hold charge Can this be done while weilding a weapon? As long as you have one hand free you can cast the spell. Be aware that you will incur a AoO if you are threatened. Then attempt to Trip attack opponent with flail. Would hitting opponent with weapon discharge the touch spell? Then using Improved trip make an immediate melee attack (this being the off hand that holds the Shocking grasp spell) Thats how I want it to work :) I think it cant, but the weapon throws a grey area into the rules for me. A Any Advice/help/clarification would be great. Thanks If you have the improve trip you don't need to use your flail to trip the opponent. You can do that with your legs. However if you use your flail you can let go of it if you lose the oppose roll to avoid being tripped yourself. Once you cast the touch spell you hold the charge and are considered armed. You can deliver the spell through a touch attack. Now if you want to hit with a weapon and channel the spell with the attack we are talking about Feats or class abilities. The Duskblade has the best set of abilities spells to do this with Arcane Channeling. It alows you to cast the spell as a swift action (thus not incurring a AoO) You can also use the metamagic feat of Arcane Smite which does the same thing but uses a slot higher. A few PrC allow this ability as well like the Spellsword. Note that it's better to delver a touch attack than a sword swing if your BAB is low. Easier to touch a target. If you use the flail to trip you can use the touch attack to deliver the extra attack (provided you held the charge). Nothing in the rules would state that this would actually classify as a off-hand attack as the two are not being done simultaneously. Some DM's will disagree.
DrMorganes 03-07-08, 08:16 AM	A few random points: The Duskblade class feature Channel Spell allows you to cast a touch spell as part of your attack with a melee weapon. The spell is then delivered via the melee attack with the weapon. The weapon does its damage normally, then the spell effect is resolved. Channel Spell is NOT a Swift Action. Duskblades do get the ability to cast any ONE spell they know ONCE per day as a Swift Action (the spell is selected at the time of casting), but that's a separate class feature than Channel Spell. If you plan on evenly splitting your levels between Fighter and Sorcerer, the Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVari antBattleSorcerer) stacks up quite well against FTR 10/SOR 10. Average HD works out to slightly better, BAB is better in the long run than a 10/10 FTR/SOR multiclass, and you have a better spell level progression. Will Save is better, too, though Fort Save suffers slightly. You can cast spells in light armor without ASF. You get fewer feats, however, and don't have the weapon and armor proficiencies of a fighter (though a single level dip into FTR will fix that). Definitely also look at the Duskblade. They know all the spells on their list at each level, though they have fewer spells per day than both the battle sorcerer and sorcerer. A LOT more spells known, but can cast slightly fewer per day. Their spell level progression is also slowed vs the battle sorcerer, but they have full BAB progression, a better selection of weapons and armor, and don't suffer ASF. Both the duskblade and battle sorcerer option have one major advantage over a FTR/SOR multiclass (aside from no Arcane Spell Failure): no loss of caster level. Sorcerers have little enough going for them as a class as it is. Losing caster levels through multiclassing makes you that much less effective.
kelvinaw273 03-07-08, 08:29 AM	OK So I am building a fighter / sorcerer who wants to focus on touch attacks. Here is an example as to what I want but am unsure the combat rules allow it. Sorcerer would cast shocking grasp and hold charge Can this be done while weilding a weapon? Yes if you have a hand free. Then attempt to Trip attack opponent with flail. Would hitting opponent with weapon discharge the touch spell? Depends on the spell and weapon. Usually no, but shocking grasp through an all-metal weapon is acceptable. HOWEVER, remember that casting a shocking grasp is a standard action, so you don't get a normal melee attack with it. Then using Improved trip make an immediate melee attack (this being the off hand that holds the Shocking grasp spell) Using a flail (cannot transmit shocking grasp through the wooden handle), then using the immediate attack as your touch attack should in theory work. Thats how I want it to work :) I think it cant, but the weapon throws a grey area into the rules for me. A Any Advice/help/clarification would be great. Thanks As a DM I would play it like this: Unless your Shocking Grasp is Quickened, you cannot make it and a normal attack as a standard action unless you have a conductive weapon. I would allow it as a Full Action (so you can Trip), personally, as shocking grasp does allow time for a touch attack. Of course, a Spell-Storing weapon would be handier for this - cast your shocking grasp into your sword before you start and you don't have to mess with casting in combat. Then use Wraithstrike to deliver your attack.
RobbyPants 03-07-08, 09:05 AM	Depends on the spell and weapon. Usually no, but shocking grasp through an all-metal weapon is acceptable. HOWEVER, remember that casting a shocking grasp is a standard action, so you don't get a normal melee attack with it. I played a wizard in a 3.0 game a few years back. The DM allowed me to use a mithril quarterstaff to transmit a Shocking Grasp spell. Even still, I don't know that I ever used the tactic. There were so many other crazy things going on in that game...
Cartigan 03-07-08, 10:01 AM	You can deliver a touch spell via an unarmed strike per the weapon-like spell rules in Complete Arcane. Though the rules change up slightly.
wizarddog 03-08-08, 01:46 PM	A few random points: The Duskblade class feature Channel Spell allows you to cast a touch spell as part of your attack with a melee weapon. The spell is then delivered via the melee attack with the weapon. The weapon does its damage normally, then the spell effect is resolved. Channel Spell is NOT a Swift Action. Duskblades do get the ability to cast any ONE spell they know ONCE per day as a Swift Action (the spell is selected at the time of casting), but that's a separate class feature than Channel Spell. Correct. I misspoke (typed) when I said it was a swift action. What I meant to imply was it did not provoke a AoO. Which is important to point out. :P