As a player I did nothing for 4 hours? Help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

As a player I did nothing for 4 hours? Help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gwendilyn
04-10-05, 02:56 AM I was a player under a DM that is new to DMing. She ussualy is a player under my DMing.
Well long story simplified, she ended up inviting 8 players to her party. This was her second time DMing ever! She had us play our characters as they would normally act. So, my character is off doing whatever and misses out on this conversation to go on an adventure. I come down the stairs to see two other guys leave to do something else and there is a strange goblin (that is one of the other players) following at a distance. So, it peaks my intrest I follow the goblin and he sees me. Then the two guys spot us following them. Then just as we all draw wepons to start attacking eachother, we are surrounded by guards. One of them conks both me and the goblin on the head and we are knocked unconcious for most of the game(4 & 1/2 hrs). The other two guys are bagged and gagged, so they don't play just as long as us. So, the other people who acctually went on the adventure were essentially the only ones to fight or do anything. After 4 hours I asked if she minded if we pick our half up later. She got upset, had us fight in a ring against many monsters and then let us end it there. How do I talk to her about her DMing? I think it probably would of been alright if half the people weren't there, and it was only her second time DMimg. Still, you would think someone of her inteligence would create a way to bring us all together, right? I mean we shouldn't have to sit there for 4 hours doing nothing should we?????
I apologized to her for the way things went and mentioned that there were too many players. So anyway, Help me please! I need help giving her advice!
Mirikon
04-10-05, 11:23 AM Geez! Cut the kid a break, man. Did you never screw up when you were first starting out? Just chill out, and let her find her way.
BW0222
04-10-05, 12:07 PM Gwendilyn,

I'm not sure how experienced you are or how much of a friend you are to her, but...

>Well long story simplified, she ended up inviting 8 players to her party.

You should have put up some warning bells right there. Eight people is too much for most DMs, let alone a new DM. Four or five is a good number. Some folks can handle six. Beyond that combats become extremely long, you don't get much of a chance to roleplay, folks get bored (since they have to sit quiet for long periods of time), the game gets easily distracted (as soon as someone says something off-topic everyone needs to put their 2cents in), and the DM has a hard time controlling everyone.

A good friend would have offered to split the table (i.e. take 3 players and DM them separately), or co-DM (i.e. run monsters in combat, help her with the rules, assist other new players, etc.) Anything to help a) cut down on the number of players, and b) help her control the table.

Since the game is already done, you should make the above offers on your her next game.
pres_man
04-10-05, 12:48 PM The number one rule with dealing with people in authority is "NEVER APPEAR TO CHALLENGE THEIR AUTHORITY IN FRONT OF OTHERS". This goes for your bosses, your teachers, your DMs. Only thing your going to do is get them to react defensively which will probably involve making the choices that are worst for you.

Instead now that the game is over say in a calm voice, "I just wanted to talk to you about last session, and hopefully give you some pointers that I have found in my experience DMing. For one thing eight people is a lot, often it is better to have two different games with 4 in each then one with 8. Though if these are all your friends then I understand you wanting to have them all present. If that is the case then you have to really make an effort to keep everyone reasonable involved, especially if you 'knock them out' and it is not their choice to wander off."

"Perhaps you could do a couple of rounds for one group and then switch back to the other. I know what it is like to be a new DM, and so don't worry if you need to ask some questions about how things work. I'll be happy to answer them if you want. Hope to have a lot more fun in the future."

Here is the big problem, many experienced DMs expect new DMs to be just as knowledgable as they are. And worse they expect the new DM to bow down before the old DM and give into any view the experience DM has. See your comment:
Still, you would think someone of her inteligence would create a way to bring us all together, right? I mean we shouldn't have to sit there for 4 hours doing nothing should we?????
Being intelligent has nothing to with being experienced. You need to back off, and only discuss the things you see her doing that you think might be in error after the games. In fact you should be her biggest supporter in game, when ever someone goes, "That doesn't work that way!" You should pipe up for her by saying, "It works the way the DM says it does. Rule 0, biatch!"
Harold DeVor
04-11-05, 10:54 AM Geez! Cut the kid a break, man. Did you never screw up when you were first starting out? Just chill out, and let her find her way.

Well know my first few times DMing were painfull to say the least, but I take solace in there being no such thing as a natural DM. You improve through practice and learning from your mistakes.

Talk to the DM away from the game, make suggestions and offer helpfull hints. Above all don't make it personal.
Lord Schpungus
04-11-05, 11:14 AM The number one rule with dealing with people in authority is "NEVER APPEAR TO CHALLENGE THEIR AUTHORITY IN FRONT OF OTHERS".

Illegitimate authority, or authority that doesn't know what it's doing, however, do need this sometimes. As a player, you've chosen to let your DM have some authority over the game, but it's your game as much as it is hers, and if you're unconscious for 4 hours of game time, and it's not any fun, that's a problem, and it can't be dealt with by avoiding it. It doesn't matter that she's new, or experienced, her job is to keep people involved.
Mrdeathclaw
04-11-05, 11:21 AM generaly if the person who is DMing doesnt come around to dish out good campaigns by the 5th time they are DM, Then DM is just not going to happen I know by experince. Trust me
pres_man
04-11-05, 11:24 AM Illegitimate authority, or authority that doesn't know what it's doing, however, do need this sometimes.
No, what you need to do is inform them of your concerns in way that is not going to belittle them in front of others. If you attack them, they will naturally get defensive. They will react out of emotion instead of logic, which usually leads to even worse choices. So instead of fixing the situation you have only made it worse, and often have made yourself look like an ass.

Sadly, I have known too many gamers who have no social skills to speak of, and can not approach this type of situation discretely. That is why I suggested not that they ignore it, but to speak to her in private either after the game, or perhaps the player could get her to call for a 10 minute break (bathroom/food/smoke/etc) and then talk to her in private.

It doesn't matter that she's new, or experienced, her job is to keep people involved.
Indeed, but how are you going to remind someone of this? By yelling across the table that they suck and need to give your characters a turn? Or by dropping a note as you go to get a drink, saying you notice have of the players are getting bored since they haven't done anything.
Aladdar
04-11-05, 11:36 AM agreed, doing nothing for 4 hours is zero fun and that's what this game is about. If her players are not having fun she is doing something wrong. I'm not sure how you handled the situation though. So there could have been some problem in how you handled this, although we should all agree that she made some mistakes as well.
Gargs454
04-11-05, 11:47 AM You definitely need to talk to the DM in private. That allows her to save face without having to be "called out" so to speak in front of everyone. Keep in mind that it appears as though this is the first major problem, so it isn't really necessary yet to start a mutiny.

Start by complimenting her. Tell her what went well and how you can see that a lot of the people had a lot of fun. This lets them know that you think they have what it takes. Then you come in with the "but". Tell her how it really isolated half the group when they were not allowed to do anything and that it just makes for an unentertaining session. Stress that you wouldn't even want the next session to focus entirely on what you and the other captured PC's are doing because that is going to make it un-fun for the other PC's (even if you personally might have a lot of fun).

Obviously 8 players is a bit of a problem, but it might be unavoidable now. If you are in the middle of a campaign, its kind of hard to kick out several players. You should stress to the DM though that whenever practical, the party should stay together unless they make a conscious decision not to. If the party consciously decides to split up, then frankly, the party is asking for problems.

Now, the next thing you need to do (and which isn't clear from what you initially posted) is make sure that all of the players are on the same page. For example, did the PC's who ran off on the adventure initially do so intentionally so as to deprive the rest of the party from joining in? Did the rest of the party intentionally not tag along? Or did the DM kinda say "Well you don't have time to get the rest of the party. You must leave now."? The party really shouldn't be splitting up of their own volition, its just asking for trouble. The other issue, is it seems as though possibly in the game the PC's are not already together in a group (i.e. they are strangers to each other?) If this is the case, then that too is a problem. I have tried making the party get to know each other in game before, and it just did not work out well. It's asking for too many problems.

Anyhoo, make sure the party is all on the same page, then talk to the DM in private. Tell her about the good things that she did first, then mention how it was unenjoyable for half of the players. Hope this helps, and good luck!
cambric
04-11-05, 12:40 PM Geez! Cut the kid a break, man. Did you never screw up when you were first starting out? Just chill out, and let her find her way.

Um...she did wait 4 hours before saying anything! Cut HER a break...2nd time dming and inviting 8 players is asking for trouble!! I know...I've been playing for 25+ years and it happened to me.

My current dm was doing 3 different groups, and decided to do one LARGE group...12 players! :eek: And he was NOT a rookie in any way shape or form here...he's been running the same campaign for over 25 years and he thought he would see how good he was...well, here's what happened to us and how we handled it:

My group of 6, he split the groups, was to go second...he figured an hour or so for the first, then he would have us meet up...well, that didn't happen! Same as Gwendilyn, it was 4 1/2 hours later that we were deciding to leave and having him run us next time first...he came up and apologized and we set about doing our "thing."

Him and I sat down afterwards and I said, "I can't do this again...either invite us in later or don't do such a huge group." We decided to give it another try...no, he admits to this day, more than 6 starts to bog down everything! And this from an experienced dm!!! I think Gwen was in her right to say something, nobody deserves to sit for four hours! and do nothing...I think the new dm got over her head and tried...good for Gwen on apologizing for saying something in front of everyone (which I agree is a huge NONO!) but I would've said something later.

Now, I would appeal to her good dm skills and basically say, "I understand what it's like to be new to dming, may I suggest a smaller group? Or if you want 8 people, maybe I can help with the dming? I would like to work this so that everyone has a great time."

If you're good friends, I'm sure this will go over well with her...my gut feeling is she realized she was over her head, didn't pay attention to the time and things fell "apart". Personally, I do not allow more than 5 in a group, when I dm, I want to be able to focus on everyone so that they feel "part" of the group.

Good luck!

Cam
Gwendilyn
04-11-05, 11:21 PM Thank you everyone for all the good advice. This is the first time I ever had something like this happen. I was so worried! I was calm when I talked to her a little bit after the game ended, but I needed advice before I really went to her and talked about future games. I can really use the advice given from several of you. I plan on talking to her this week. Thank you for your help and taking the time to answer my thread.
xRedCometx
04-13-05, 09:51 PM This reminds me of the time I was in a campaign with a new character and waited for 5 hours for my character to come in eventually but I never did. :weep:
angryman
04-13-05, 10:44 PM I refuse to DM for more than 4-5 people, it's not fun for anyone. Any larger and we split into 2 games.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gwendilyn 04-10-05, 02:56 AM	I was a player under a DM that is new to DMing. She ussualy is a player under my DMing. Well long story simplified, she ended up inviting 8 players to her party. This was her second time DMing ever! She had us play our characters as they would normally act. So, my character is off doing whatever and misses out on this conversation to go on an adventure. I come down the stairs to see two other guys leave to do something else and there is a strange goblin (that is one of the other players) following at a distance. So, it peaks my intrest I follow the goblin and he sees me. Then the two guys spot us following them. Then just as we all draw wepons to start attacking eachother, we are surrounded by guards. One of them conks both me and the goblin on the head and we are knocked unconcious for most of the game(4 & 1/2 hrs). The other two guys are bagged and gagged, so they don't play just as long as us. So, the other people who acctually went on the adventure were essentially the only ones to fight or do anything. After 4 hours I asked if she minded if we pick our half up later. She got upset, had us fight in a ring against many monsters and then let us end it there. How do I talk to her about her DMing? I think it probably would of been alright if half the people weren't there, and it was only her second time DMimg. Still, you would think someone of her inteligence would create a way to bring us all together, right? I mean we shouldn't have to sit there for 4 hours doing nothing should we????? I apologized to her for the way things went and mentioned that there were too many players. So anyway, Help me please! I need help giving her advice!
Mirikon 04-10-05, 11:23 AM	Geez! Cut the kid a break, man. Did you never screw up when you were first starting out? Just chill out, and let her find her way.
BW0222 04-10-05, 12:07 PM	Gwendilyn, I'm not sure how experienced you are or how much of a friend you are to her, but... >Well long story simplified, she ended up inviting 8 players to her party. You should have put up some warning bells right there. Eight people is too much for most DMs, let alone a new DM. Four or five is a good number. Some folks can handle six. Beyond that combats become extremely long, you don't get much of a chance to roleplay, folks get bored (since they have to sit quiet for long periods of time), the game gets easily distracted (as soon as someone says something off-topic everyone needs to put their 2cents in), and the DM has a hard time controlling everyone. A good friend would have offered to split the table (i.e. take 3 players and DM them separately), or co-DM (i.e. run monsters in combat, help her with the rules, assist other new players, etc.) Anything to help a) cut down on the number of players, and b) help her control the table. Since the game is already done, you should make the above offers on your her next game.
pres_man 04-10-05, 12:48 PM	The number one rule with dealing with people in authority is "NEVER APPEAR TO CHALLENGE THEIR AUTHORITY IN FRONT OF OTHERS". This goes for your bosses, your teachers, your DMs. Only thing your going to do is get them to react defensively which will probably involve making the choices that are worst for you. Instead now that the game is over say in a calm voice, "I just wanted to talk to you about last session, and hopefully give you some pointers that I have found in my experience DMing. For one thing eight people is a lot, often it is better to have two different games with 4 in each then one with 8. Though if these are all your friends then I understand you wanting to have them all present. If that is the case then you have to really make an effort to keep everyone reasonable involved, especially if you 'knock them out' and it is not their choice to wander off." "Perhaps you could do a couple of rounds for one group and then switch back to the other. I know what it is like to be a new DM, and so don't worry if you need to ask some questions about how things work. I'll be happy to answer them if you want. Hope to have a lot more fun in the future." Here is the big problem, many experienced DMs expect new DMs to be just as knowledgable as they are. And worse they expect the new DM to bow down before the old DM and give into any view the experience DM has. See your comment: Still, you would think someone of her inteligence would create a way to bring us all together, right? I mean we shouldn't have to sit there for 4 hours doing nothing should we????? Being intelligent has nothing to with being experienced. You need to back off, and only discuss the things you see her doing that you think might be in error after the games. In fact you should be her biggest supporter in game, when ever someone goes, "That doesn't work that way!" You should pipe up for her by saying, "It works the way the DM says it does. Rule 0, biatch!"
Harold DeVor 04-11-05, 10:54 AM	Geez! Cut the kid a break, man. Did you never screw up when you were first starting out? Just chill out, and let her find her way. Well know my first few times DMing were painfull to say the least, but I take solace in there being no such thing as a natural DM. You improve through practice and learning from your mistakes. Talk to the DM away from the game, make suggestions and offer helpfull hints. Above all don't make it personal.
Lord Schpungus 04-11-05, 11:14 AM	The number one rule with dealing with people in authority is "NEVER APPEAR TO CHALLENGE THEIR AUTHORITY IN FRONT OF OTHERS". Illegitimate authority, or authority that doesn't know what it's doing, however, do need this sometimes. As a player, you've chosen to let your DM have some authority over the game, but it's your game as much as it is hers, and if you're unconscious for 4 hours of game time, and it's not any fun, that's a problem, and it can't be dealt with by avoiding it. It doesn't matter that she's new, or experienced, her job is to keep people involved.
Mrdeathclaw 04-11-05, 11:21 AM	generaly if the person who is DMing doesnt come around to dish out good campaigns by the 5th time they are DM, Then DM is just not going to happen I know by experince. Trust me
pres_man 04-11-05, 11:24 AM	Illegitimate authority, or authority that doesn't know what it's doing, however, do need this sometimes. No, what you need to do is inform them of your concerns in way that is not going to belittle them in front of others. If you attack them, they will naturally get defensive. They will react out of emotion instead of logic, which usually leads to even worse choices. So instead of fixing the situation you have only made it worse, and often have made yourself look like an ass. Sadly, I have known too many gamers who have no social skills to speak of, and can not approach this type of situation discretely. That is why I suggested not that they ignore it, but to speak to her in private either after the game, or perhaps the player could get her to call for a 10 minute break (bathroom/food/smoke/etc) and then talk to her in private. It doesn't matter that she's new, or experienced, her job is to keep people involved. Indeed, but how are you going to remind someone of this? By yelling across the table that they suck and need to give your characters a turn? Or by dropping a note as you go to get a drink, saying you notice have of the players are getting bored since they haven't done anything.
Aladdar 04-11-05, 11:36 AM	agreed, doing nothing for 4 hours is zero fun and that's what this game is about. If her players are not having fun she is doing something wrong. I'm not sure how you handled the situation though. So there could have been some problem in how you handled this, although we should all agree that she made some mistakes as well.
Gargs454 04-11-05, 11:47 AM	You definitely need to talk to the DM in private. That allows her to save face without having to be "called out" so to speak in front of everyone. Keep in mind that it appears as though this is the first major problem, so it isn't really necessary yet to start a mutiny. Start by complimenting her. Tell her what went well and how you can see that a lot of the people had a lot of fun. This lets them know that you think they have what it takes. Then you come in with the "but". Tell her how it really isolated half the group when they were not allowed to do anything and that it just makes for an unentertaining session. Stress that you wouldn't even want the next session to focus entirely on what you and the other captured PC's are doing because that is going to make it un-fun for the other PC's (even if you personally might have a lot of fun). Obviously 8 players is a bit of a problem, but it might be unavoidable now. If you are in the middle of a campaign, its kind of hard to kick out several players. You should stress to the DM though that whenever practical, the party should stay together unless they make a conscious decision not to. If the party consciously decides to split up, then frankly, the party is asking for problems. Now, the next thing you need to do (and which isn't clear from what you initially posted) is make sure that all of the players are on the same page. For example, did the PC's who ran off on the adventure initially do so intentionally so as to deprive the rest of the party from joining in? Did the rest of the party intentionally not tag along? Or did the DM kinda say "Well you don't have time to get the rest of the party. You must leave now."? The party really shouldn't be splitting up of their own volition, its just asking for trouble. The other issue, is it seems as though possibly in the game the PC's are not already together in a group (i.e. they are strangers to each other?) If this is the case, then that too is a problem. I have tried making the party get to know each other in game before, and it just did not work out well. It's asking for too many problems. Anyhoo, make sure the party is all on the same page, then talk to the DM in private. Tell her about the good things that she did first, then mention how it was unenjoyable for half of the players. Hope this helps, and good luck!
cambric 04-11-05, 12:40 PM	Geez! Cut the kid a break, man. Did you never screw up when you were first starting out? Just chill out, and let her find her way. Um...she did wait 4 hours before saying anything! Cut HER a break...2nd time dming and inviting 8 players is asking for trouble!! I know...I've been playing for 25+ years and it happened to me. My current dm was doing 3 different groups, and decided to do one LARGE group...12 players! :eek: And he was NOT a rookie in any way shape or form here...he's been running the same campaign for over 25 years and he thought he would see how good he was...well, here's what happened to us and how we handled it: My group of 6, he split the groups, was to go second...he figured an hour or so for the first, then he would have us meet up...well, that didn't happen! Same as Gwendilyn, it was 4 1/2 hours later that we were deciding to leave and having him run us next time first...he came up and apologized and we set about doing our "thing." Him and I sat down afterwards and I said, "I can't do this again...either invite us in later or don't do such a huge group." We decided to give it another try...no, he admits to this day, more than 6 starts to bog down everything! And this from an experienced dm!!! I think Gwen was in her right to say something, nobody deserves to sit for four hours! and do nothing...I think the new dm got over her head and tried...good for Gwen on apologizing for saying something in front of everyone (which I agree is a huge NONO!) but I would've said something later. Now, I would appeal to her good dm skills and basically say, "I understand what it's like to be new to dming, may I suggest a smaller group? Or if you want 8 people, maybe I can help with the dming? I would like to work this so that everyone has a great time." If you're good friends, I'm sure this will go over well with her...my gut feeling is she realized she was over her head, didn't pay attention to the time and things fell "apart". Personally, I do not allow more than 5 in a group, when I dm, I want to be able to focus on everyone so that they feel "part" of the group. Good luck! Cam
Gwendilyn 04-11-05, 11:21 PM	Thank you everyone for all the good advice. This is the first time I ever had something like this happen. I was so worried! I was calm when I talked to her a little bit after the game ended, but I needed advice before I really went to her and talked about future games. I can really use the advice given from several of you. I plan on talking to her this week. Thank you for your help and taking the time to answer my thread.
xRedCometx 04-13-05, 09:51 PM	This reminds me of the time I was in a campaign with a new character and waited for 5 hours for my character to come in eventually but I never did. :weep:
angryman 04-13-05, 10:44 PM	I refuse to DM for more than 4-5 people, it's not fun for anyone. Any larger and we split into 2 games.