Post/Author/DateTime	Post
corcio 01-08-06, 11:32 AM	would it be feasable to create a rogue/assasin/cleric with a lawful evil alignment that would also be useful to parties in need of healing? how would i go about such a thing? i know ive posted other similar things but this one kind of cuts to the chase
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-08-06, 11:43 AM	:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I can just see this in action. The assassin studies his victim carefully from the shadows, then launches forth to deliver the fatal blow, dealing heavy damage - and the victim makes his Fort save and survives! Assassin Dreadfully sorry, I... tripped. :angel: Here, let me heal that for you. Seriously though, it could be rather difficult to make it work. You've got at least 3 ability scores to concentrate on - Dex, Int, and Wis - and the class' abilities don't really compliment one another too well. You might be better off just going rogue/assassin, maxing Use Magic Device, and carrying wands of Cure Light, Moderate, or Serious Wounds, depending on your budget and/or ability to steal high priced items.
Wilds 01-08-06, 11:56 AM	Black Flame Zealot from Complete Divine. Cleric/Rogue PrCs, with added CL, sneak attack dice, death attack i need to amek me one of these
ehrin 01-08-06, 12:06 PM	Possible, yes, even scary (after all, who is scarier as a killer than the people we think are healers? Or who makes a more fanatical killer than a religous zealot?) But, as pointed out, it requires you to stretch your ability scores across more attributes. You may have to let one important one slip a bit (like intelligence, and accept fewer skill points). It can make for a nice character, but you won't be the most powerful PC in your party.
corcio 01-08-06, 12:29 PM	to me its not the power that matters...its the variety and the charater itself...to few characters i see out there have any decent flaws. and perfection is boring come on even superman had his kryptonite
MasterOfPsychic 01-08-06, 12:46 PM	I love you corcio... :D
Templetroll 01-08-06, 04:09 PM	would it be feasable to create a rogue/assasin/cleric with a lawful evil alignment that would also be useful to parties in need of healing? how would i go about such a thing? i know ive posted other similar things but this one kind of cuts to the chase Yes, the cleric has wands of healing to make the party appreciate him and be indebted to him. This also allows him to not have to waste valuable spell selections on healing.
Radijs 01-08-06, 04:30 PM	A rogue/cleric is a very handy idea. Right now I'm playing a halfling Rogue4/cleric1 and it is working out quite well. He has wis 12 which means that with the darkness & trickery domain he has 3 lvl 1 divine spells (including domain) and I intend to combine him with a wand of darkness. He'll cast Ebon Eyes (spell compendium) and darkness on himself allowing him to move about, have concealment and sneak attack all the way round. Its next level will be assasin. He uses wands to assist his party members. I'm playing him the other way around though. He won't admit he's a cleric but demands that he is a very skilled adventurer.
corcio 01-09-06, 01:02 PM	i love you too whoever said i love you corcio but seriously come on think about it a character doesnt have to have a massive flaw like 2 int or 3 str with a phobia of little tiny pieces of paper floating around but if he is some sort of uber character with +20 everything then whats he going to do dm- as you walk by the cave a great red wyrm peeks out at you..." super mighty character - "i look it in the eyes" dm - "it exploded" BOOOOOORING
Millennium 01-09-06, 02:10 PM	To be honest, I'd ditch the Assassin class altogether. Do a straight-up Cleric/Rogue with Death as one of your domains. Ocer 20 levels the build should be somewhat stronger: you lose most of the death attack and some Sneak Attack, but you get much better casting, saves, weapon proficiencies, and skills. You could be one of an order of temple assassins or something.
Hodo 01-09-06, 03:43 PM	Like Wilds said: Black Flame Zealot prestige class. In the Complete Divine and Forgotten Realms Unapproachable East books. My cleric/rogue who eventually became a Black Flame Zealot was pretty good. I didn't concentrate as much on spellcasting though, as I used my spells in a defensive and utilitarian manner to set me up better for sneak attacks as opposed to a more offensive one. We had an actual cleric in the group, so I was a backup healer, using my superior mobility (light armor and maxed out climb/jump/tumble skills) to get to emergencies the other cleric couldn't reach while in full plate. When I did use offensive spells, it was usually something like hold person or bestow curse. Something I could use to severely cripple the enemy since I didn't have the spell casting powers to buff my teammates or serve as artillery. BAB is pretty low (I suggest weapon finesse or weapon focus), but it can work.
madd0g200 01-09-06, 04:24 PM	You could but with a 2nd class (rogue) and a prestige class (assassin), if you are planning on being the party's main healer, your cleric level will probably be too low to help. But as a backup healer, it could work.
Tristan 01-09-06, 04:31 PM	Make sure one of your domains is, what was it, "trickery"? so you can have full ranks in hide and move silently to use healing, it would be best to keep a wand though 1 or 2 healing spells prepared would still be a good idea. There is nothing scaryer than an assassin with the power of a god behind his dagger. Well, maybe a tarrasque, but whatever. You can use your clerical spells to great advantage, though you may have a problem with people surviving death attacks, you still get sneakattack damage, and dont forget there is nothing quieter than an assassin with a silence spell centered on him.
Dwalon 01-09-06, 06:28 PM	A party cleric really needs to be able to "Raise Dead", so if you could get all of your skills in as a cleric 9/rogue 1 before entering the prestige class of assassin, that would be optimum for your party. There are lots of good spells above 5th, but those aren't generally necessary for a party's survival. Perhaps taking the early suggestion of "Trickery" as one of the cleric's domains for the skill set of hide and move silently will facilitate that training process.
Templetroll 01-09-06, 06:50 PM	A party cleric really needs to be able to "Raise Dead", so if you could get all of your skills in as a cleric 9/rogue 1 before entering the prestige class of assassin, that would be optimum for your party. There are lots of good spells above 5th, but those aren't generally necessary for a party's survival. Perhaps taking the early suggestion of "Trickery" as one of the cleric's domains for the skill set of hide and move silently will facilitate that training process. I don't have my books available right now but could a cleric of Mask in FR get assassin PrC without needing rogue at all?
syntaxerror37 01-09-06, 06:57 PM	to me its not the power that matters...its the variety and the charater itself...to few characters i see out there have any decent flaws. and perfection is boring come on even superman had his kryptonite This is refreshing to see. Also glad to see this thread has no "OMG! you can't multiclass a caster!!!111" coments. As long as you have a decent atribute spread, this should work great. Most sugestions I could offer have already been made. Also, are you focussing more on the Clerical aspect or the Rogue/Assassin aspect of your charater?
Templetroll 01-09-06, 07:05 PM	This is refreshing to see. Also glad to see this thread has no "OMG! you can't multiclass a caster!!!111" coments. As long as you have a decent atribute spread, this should work great. Most sugestions I could offer have already been made. Also, are you focussing more on the Clerical aspect or the Rogue/Assassin aspect of your charater? way back a friend and I both created mage-thieves. His character's concept was a mage who took up thief training to become a more powerful and dangerous spell caster. My concept was a thief who studied magic to allow him to be more capable and versatile as a thief. We worked well together.
Chronomodra 01-10-06, 12:22 AM	I played a rogue/cleric up to 16 and he worked out very well. He actually was the strongest healer in the group (though we also had a bard and occasionally a druid), and his mobility allowed him to very easily heal people in combat. And when he didn't have someone to heal, he was deadly with his kukris. As for spreading stats thin, he did have a charisma of 4, but that made him extremely fun to play. He was the shy, paranoid type of low charisma, not the 'I'm a jerk to everyone' kind.
LordofNightmares 01-10-06, 01:13 AM	Cleric with Trickery and Death domains, with only 1 level of Rogue (as the starting class) would not be a problem as much of a problem. Keeping only one level of Rogue keeps your spellcasting tight and reduces the penalties for a low DEX. Keep your Cha and Wis as your highest, with Dex and Int (skill points) as your secondary.
Jager Mage 01-10-06, 01:41 AM	it depends on whether or not your using the "start a PrC finish a PrC or not" If you're not using the rule, then look for somthing like cleric/rogue/shadowdancer/assasin/black flame zealot/ninja/shadowbane stalker. But that's if you're ignoring the the PrC rules. If you're not, then I would suggest the following, which is something I did: Human-wizard 1 (for spell true strike, trust me, you'll need it)/rogue1/ninja1/scout1/cleric6/shadowbane stalker/assassin. Weapon finesse, don't worry about strength or charisma, and take one the feats that let's you use turn attempts to for other reasons, so Cha isn't that important. Wis only matters for number of healing spells, so get the bare minimum to cast cure serious or cure crit, and put the rest in int and dex and con. A high int lets you cast true strike a bunch of times per day, so you pathetic BAB isn't as much of a problem, plus your weapon finessed weapons and your obscenely high dex score also help. You won't be getting any bonuses from your str score, but your not worried about that kind of dmg. It's all in the sneak attack/skirmish dice. That's the power game method. However, character build and for RP purposes, then rogue/cleric/black flame zealot is prolly your best choice. Unless you can talk your DM into allowing Shadowbane Stalker to be any lawful alignment instead of just LG. change some class features and it works in any church. No church wants spies and enemies infilitrating their ranks. Just my $.02
corcio 01-10-06, 01:49 PM	oh yeah just to be clear ive wanted to focus more on rogue
Loki_God'o'Chaos 01-11-06, 10:29 PM	Ok, Im going to say it, because nobody else has mentioned them. You could choose Hel, from the Norse pantheos, she had Trickery and Death in her domains, as well as Nerul (I think), I also believe that Kas (from heroes of Horror) would have those domains. Also, There really are alot of spells the Cleric can pick up that would help him do that kind of stuff, after all, can anyone else picture a cleric simply vanishing through a wall via the Shadow's Form Spell, just like in all the really good horror movies. Shadows form is from CA
Loki_God'o'Chaos 01-11-06, 10:39 PM	Ok, Im going to say it, because nobody else has mentioned them. You could choose Hel, from the Norse pantheos, she had Trickery and Death in her domains, as well as Nerul (I think), I also believe that Kas (from heroes of Horror) would have those domains. Also, There really are alot of spells the Cleric can pick up that would help him do that kind of stuff, after all, can anyone else picture a cleric simply vanishing through a wall via the Shadow's Form Spell, just like in all the really good horror movies. Shadows form is from CA
ConfoundedReptile 01-12-06, 02:12 AM	I recently played a death cleric/rogue with domains in death and trickery. The DM let me use the dagger as both my touch attack and holy symbol (maybe that's too easy?), but I then could make a touch attack and use my death domain spell, even on a sneak attack. And there's no reason this character couldn't also heal other characters. Just cuz you're evil doesn't mean you're stupid. But like others mentioned, the ability scores and the prestige class of assassin may make the character a little less functional. But it sounds like the assasin bit would really liven it up: assasin spells and poisoning on top of the rogue/death priest abilities. Of course, if you're not in an evil campaign, or your intention is to backstab other pc's then I think it's a bad idea.
corcio 01-12-06, 01:34 PM	ok so ditching assassin then i suppose so whoever played a rogue/cleric what levels did you take i mean say im lvl 8 should i just take 4 each and just keep balancing them out like that the saves would be great but the spell and level progression would be really slow
Hodo 01-12-06, 02:23 PM	I prefer rogue ion 1st level for the massive ammount of skill points. Then I went cleric to get basic spells and powers, and from then on in, I pretty much alternated. If your party really wants or needs a cleric and you are the only one, I would suggest sticking with a cleric. People might get frustrated that the only person in the group usually cpable of healing and removing seriou status ailments (like being dead) can't do it. If you really want to elaborate upon the divine assassin concept, I would suggest more levels of rogue. Either way, you will not be a combat spell caster. Your sacrificing spellcasting power and base attack bonuses (and probably armor as well) will force you to be more resourceful and strategic in how you use any of your abilities. You will more than likely use cleric powers to enhance the skills and abilities you gain through the rogue class like using spells to debuff the oppenent and buff yourself so you can land more sneak attacks, using spells that allow you to maneuver, hide, and scout better, better your ability to handle magical traps, and give yourself a way of dealing with undead against whom your sneak attacks normally don'tg work. You'll be a pretty capable rogue, especially if you choose to specialise. There are so many utilitarian powers in the cleric spells list that a rogue can make use of.
Jager Mage 01-12-06, 03:31 PM	If you want sneak attack/extra dice dmg quickly, and still do some cleric, do this: Human Wizard1 (true strike spell)/Rogue1/Ninja1/Scout1/Cleric6/Assassin (or shadowbane stalker if you wanna play LG) And you won't take XP penalties if you declare Cleric as your favored class becuase human's favored class is what?...lemme hear it...that's right, any. That gets you 3d6 extra dmg if you move 10 ft (able learner feat at 1st lvl, skill focus tumble, and only a DC 40 tumble check to do a 10ft 5ft step). Can you tell my group is a power gaming group? And just think of how awesome it will be with the aforementioned domains when you start taking lvls of cleric.