At a loss with my barbarian [Archive] - Wizards Community

At a loss with my barbarian [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Amilius
06-01-04, 05:10 PM I didn't know where to post this, so i thought i post this here. My group is starting it's first real campaighn soon and we're start with all new characters at first level. My character was gonig to be a pure human barbarian based on a Native american theme. My problem is that i want him to use two axes when he fights, but with the high dexterity prerequisite it is likely that i'll have to put alot of points into it, but if i do that my strength and constitution will suffer. My scores are 17,15,16,12,11,10. I guess what i'm asking is the prerequisite Dexterity score make two-weapon fighting unviable except to Rangers (can get no matter what) and Rogues (Have High dexterity and way)? the Game is 3.5 and i know that two-weapon fighting is less damaging than the double handed route (took it for flavour). Right now my only other group member is a druid and three unknowns. My other feat is the Animal Cohort feat but that's another story.... I really need help with this as i want to go the two-weapon route.
Vaettyr
06-01-04, 05:17 PM Well, you have two options really. One would be to go the Finesse route (which includes dropping your animal cohort feat for weapon finesse), putting your highest stat into Dex, and living with it.

However, with the stats you rolled you don't really need to worry about it. Stick your 17 in Strength, 16 in Con, 15 in Dex (which qualifies you for TWF), and you're good to go. Strength and Constitution don't suffer at all, just your mental stats, but it doesn't sound like your barbarian will be heartbroken about that one.

I might add though, that the character concept sounds really interesting. While TWF may be statistically weaker, I think for it can be great for character concepts, and this one seems really cool. 'Sides, I imagine double ax'ing it could be pretty intimidating to some folks.
devinmdp
06-01-04, 05:18 PM Sorry. You already have plenty of options, so you'll either have to conform to those or reconfigure your character.

Rangers are entirely within the parameters of a barbaric type native American PC.

You basically have 3 choices:

1. Take 2 levels of Ranger first, then go barbarian

2. Wield two weapons without the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and just suck up the penalties.

3. Get a 15 Dex

It seems to me those 3 options are enough to accommodate someone if they really want to use two weapons. You now have to decide if you are willing to do what it takes.

I personally recommend #3, but #1 is quite viable....you'll have to simply use 1 weapon for a single level (level 1). #2 is not recommended.

Devin
devinmdp
06-01-04, 05:23 PM At the risk of turning this thread into a stats thread, TWF is not statistically weaker than 2HF. It's simply different. Yeah, I've seen the many analyses done about this, but they absolutely fail to account for many of the more subtle differences between the two:

More subtle advantages of TWF over 2HF:

1. You can kill a foe with the first weapon and thereby be able to attack another foe with the other. In other words, less overkill.

2. You double your chance to score a critical hit in a given round.

3. You can wield two different magical weapons at the same time to take advantage of two different effects. Since it is cheaper to make two weapons with +1 abilities than to make a single weapon with a single +2 ability, you save money.

4. You can take Two-Weapon Defense and boost your AC.

5. You can make two different special melee attacks in a round, such as trip and sunder et al.

Now, I could also pull out 5 subtle reasons why 2HF is better than TWF. So my intent is not to try to prove one is better than the other...but simply that they are DIFFERENT and each has its advantages and disadvantages.

Devin
Tony Vargas
06-01-04, 05:26 PM As a barbarian, you'll probably be in lighter armor, anyway, and will want a reasonably high DEX to maintain a decent AC. A 16 DEX is generally a pretty good idea for a barbarian. If you have to let a physical stat 'suffer' to get it, skimp a bit on CON - you already have a d12 HD.
Amilius
06-01-04, 07:36 PM I've decided to do this: Str 17, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 10. I'm planning on taking the the Improved two weapon fighting but at 12th level. So i'm going to increase strength at 4th level then dex at 8th and 12th level. Thanks for your advice.
Amilius
06-02-04, 06:21 PM Okay now that the other problem is solved i've got another, Is it resonable to give up trap sense and gain are few class skills such as Spot, Move silently, Hide, and Knowledge (Nature), Maybe the Wild empathy but at 1/2 Class level, or bonus feats? Thanks for your advice.
TheRedRobedWizard
06-03-04, 11:56 AM Giving up trapsense AND uncanny dodge could get you 2 bonus class skills and Wild Empathy at 1/2 class level.

Giving up trapsense, uncanny dodge, AND fast movement gets you everything you're asking for AND the ability to cast Cure Light Wounds as a Spell Like Ability at 20th level.

-TRRW
denomicon
06-03-04, 04:54 PM Howabout this, max out strength and con. Take first level Barb, follow it up with two levels of ranger, throw in Monkey Grip and wield two Greataxes. Sure you will be at -6 (-5 because of Weapon Focus) to hit with each hand, and only get half Str modifier to dmg on your off-hand. The intimidation factor will be worth it. Eventually hit Frenzied berserker, and your rage + frenzy modifiers will negate any penalty for the gigantic axes you are wielding.
Edymnion
06-03-04, 07:22 PM Have you considered simply multiclassing as a Barbarian/Ranger?
Take 2 levels of Barbarian, a level of Ranger, repeate.
shift244
06-03-04, 09:03 PM it compansates actually. with ranger levels, you can wear no more than light armor. without, you can go up to medium. as i see it, either way, your Dex will go up to 14 to make up the AC. as a barbarian, i'd not worry too much about CON with the high HD but the rolls are good enough with good physical and average mental attributes.

if you can drop trap sense for an extra class skill, i'd say go for it. but in favor for flavour.. you should be able to answer the question better then us. but i like uncanny dodge, and with a 3.0 fixation in my mind... both abilities are much of the same "tree"..
dantedarkstar
06-04-04, 08:59 AM Funny... I was planning very similiar concept a while ago. After a bit of thinking, I came up with conclusion, that the best fitting class would be just Ranger. I just couldn't see a piece of barbarian there (ok, in interest of min-maxing, I was considering 1 level of Bbn for fast movement).

But that's it.

I had more problem with choosing TWF or archery ?
Hathorym
06-04-04, 09:03 AM Sometimes the best characters are those your don't pigeon hole yourself into at the very beginning. Start loose... then build. Much easier that way. Begin the campaign with skill with one axe and allow your personal story to take it from there. You may find that a)you'll have a fascinating reason later on why he would want to wield a second axe or b) you'll realize that two axes isn't within the flavor of what your character has become.

2 cp.. there it is.
ratt182
06-04-04, 03:32 PM Think outside the box, dude. Rapid Shot. Every darn Indian/cowboy flick that I've seen has savages chunkin' tomahawks like nobody's buisness. Be the enraged short range warrior, who an enemy might not confront as readily as an elven archer due to the fact that one can use the hand axe/tomahawk as a melee weapon as well. You might have to hold off on the double throw to keep one axe for melee, so keep the one-handed weapon used with two hands for close battle. Talk about flair, man... the half naked, war-painted savage darting in and out of the woods chunkin' axes makes me poop my pants. Then, tailor the crap out of your guy with magical items to increase this batlle type. Levitate could be alright, axes of returning, vicious axes (my favorite, you've got 1d12 HD for Pete's sake),

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amilius 06-01-04, 05:10 PM	I didn't know where to post this, so i thought i post this here. My group is starting it's first real campaighn soon and we're start with all new characters at first level. My character was gonig to be a pure human barbarian based on a Native american theme. My problem is that i want him to use two axes when he fights, but with the high dexterity prerequisite it is likely that i'll have to put alot of points into it, but if i do that my strength and constitution will suffer. My scores are 17,15,16,12,11,10. I guess what i'm asking is the prerequisite Dexterity score make two-weapon fighting unviable except to Rangers (can get no matter what) and Rogues (Have High dexterity and way)? the Game is 3.5 and i know that two-weapon fighting is less damaging than the double handed route (took it for flavour). Right now my only other group member is a druid and three unknowns. My other feat is the Animal Cohort feat but that's another story.... I really need help with this as i want to go the two-weapon route.
Vaettyr 06-01-04, 05:17 PM	Well, you have two options really. One would be to go the Finesse route (which includes dropping your animal cohort feat for weapon finesse), putting your highest stat into Dex, and living with it. However, with the stats you rolled you don't really need to worry about it. Stick your 17 in Strength, 16 in Con, 15 in Dex (which qualifies you for TWF), and you're good to go. Strength and Constitution don't suffer at all, just your mental stats, but it doesn't sound like your barbarian will be heartbroken about that one. I might add though, that the character concept sounds really interesting. While TWF may be statistically weaker, I think for it can be great for character concepts, and this one seems really cool. 'Sides, I imagine double ax'ing it could be pretty intimidating to some folks.
devinmdp 06-01-04, 05:18 PM	Sorry. You already have plenty of options, so you'll either have to conform to those or reconfigure your character. Rangers are entirely within the parameters of a barbaric type native American PC. You basically have 3 choices: 1. Take 2 levels of Ranger first, then go barbarian 2. Wield two weapons without the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and just suck up the penalties. 3. Get a 15 Dex It seems to me those 3 options are enough to accommodate someone if they really want to use two weapons. You now have to decide if you are willing to do what it takes. I personally recommend #3, but #1 is quite viable....you'll have to simply use 1 weapon for a single level (level 1). #2 is not recommended. Devin
devinmdp 06-01-04, 05:23 PM	At the risk of turning this thread into a stats thread, TWF is not statistically weaker than 2HF. It's simply different. Yeah, I've seen the many analyses done about this, but they absolutely fail to account for many of the more subtle differences between the two: More subtle advantages of TWF over 2HF: 1. You can kill a foe with the first weapon and thereby be able to attack another foe with the other. In other words, less overkill. 2. You double your chance to score a critical hit in a given round. 3. You can wield two different magical weapons at the same time to take advantage of two different effects. Since it is cheaper to make two weapons with +1 abilities than to make a single weapon with a single +2 ability, you save money. 4. You can take Two-Weapon Defense and boost your AC. 5. You can make two different special melee attacks in a round, such as trip and sunder et al. Now, I could also pull out 5 subtle reasons why 2HF is better than TWF. So my intent is not to try to prove one is better than the other...but simply that they are DIFFERENT and each has its advantages and disadvantages. Devin
Tony Vargas 06-01-04, 05:26 PM	As a barbarian, you'll probably be in lighter armor, anyway, and will want a reasonably high DEX to maintain a decent AC. A 16 DEX is generally a pretty good idea for a barbarian. If you have to let a physical stat 'suffer' to get it, skimp a bit on CON - you already have a d12 HD.
Amilius 06-01-04, 07:36 PM	I've decided to do this: Str 17, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 10. I'm planning on taking the the Improved two weapon fighting but at 12th level. So i'm going to increase strength at 4th level then dex at 8th and 12th level. Thanks for your advice.
Amilius 06-02-04, 06:21 PM	Okay now that the other problem is solved i've got another, Is it resonable to give up trap sense and gain are few class skills such as Spot, Move silently, Hide, and Knowledge (Nature), Maybe the Wild empathy but at 1/2 Class level, or bonus feats? Thanks for your advice.
TheRedRobedWizard 06-03-04, 11:56 AM	Giving up trapsense AND uncanny dodge could get you 2 bonus class skills and Wild Empathy at 1/2 class level. Giving up trapsense, uncanny dodge, AND fast movement gets you everything you're asking for AND the ability to cast Cure Light Wounds as a Spell Like Ability at 20th level. -TRRW
denomicon 06-03-04, 04:54 PM	Howabout this, max out strength and con. Take first level Barb, follow it up with two levels of ranger, throw in Monkey Grip and wield two Greataxes. Sure you will be at -6 (-5 because of Weapon Focus) to hit with each hand, and only get half Str modifier to dmg on your off-hand. The intimidation factor will be worth it. Eventually hit Frenzied berserker, and your rage + frenzy modifiers will negate any penalty for the gigantic axes you are wielding.
Edymnion 06-03-04, 07:22 PM	Have you considered simply multiclassing as a Barbarian/Ranger? Take 2 levels of Barbarian, a level of Ranger, repeate.
shift244 06-03-04, 09:03 PM	it compansates actually. with ranger levels, you can wear no more than light armor. without, you can go up to medium. as i see it, either way, your Dex will go up to 14 to make up the AC. as a barbarian, i'd not worry too much about CON with the high HD but the rolls are good enough with good physical and average mental attributes. if you can drop trap sense for an extra class skill, i'd say go for it. but in favor for flavour.. you should be able to answer the question better then us. but i like uncanny dodge, and with a 3.0 fixation in my mind... both abilities are much of the same "tree"..
dantedarkstar 06-04-04, 08:59 AM	Funny... I was planning very similiar concept a while ago. After a bit of thinking, I came up with conclusion, that the best fitting class would be just Ranger. I just couldn't see a piece of barbarian there (ok, in interest of min-maxing, I was considering 1 level of Bbn for fast movement). But that's it. I had more problem with choosing TWF or archery ?
Hathorym 06-04-04, 09:03 AM	Sometimes the best characters are those your don't pigeon hole yourself into at the very beginning. Start loose... then build. Much easier that way. Begin the campaign with skill with one axe and allow your personal story to take it from there. You may find that a)you'll have a fascinating reason later on why he would want to wield a second axe or b) you'll realize that two axes isn't within the flavor of what your character has become. 2 cp.. there it is.
ratt182 06-04-04, 03:32 PM	Think outside the box, dude. Rapid Shot. Every darn Indian/cowboy flick that I've seen has savages chunkin' tomahawks like nobody's buisness. Be the enraged short range warrior, who an enemy might not confront as readily as an elven archer due to the fact that one can use the hand axe/tomahawk as a melee weapon as well. You might have to hold off on the double throw to keep one axe for melee, so keep the one-handed weapon used with two hands for close battle. Talk about flair, man... the half naked, war-painted savage darting in and out of the woods chunkin' axes makes me poop my pants. Then, tailor the crap out of your guy with magical items to increase this batlle type. Levitate could be alright, axes of returning, vicious axes (my favorite, you've got 1d12 HD for Pete's sake),