Avoiding racial tensions as a Half Orc Cleric of Corellon Larethian [Archive] - Wizards Community

Avoiding racial tensions as a Half Orc Cleric of Corellon Larethian [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Azar_of_Faerun
02-10-07, 03:15 AM Hey all

A while ago, and over on the FR boards, I talked about my character I enjoyed playing so far (a real challenge)

Grozan, the Half Orc Cleric 4 of Corellon Larethian

So far, he's tolerated in the city where he was inducted into the faith (Silverymoon) but as we travel further northeast, past grudges and hostilities of the locals override the trust of a "tusk face" even a halfbreed.

With a few ranks in Diplomacy (I had to bump up Cha, but it's no biggie) and a good grasp of roleplaying, I was wondering what are good ways to deflect animosity from those I greet and to smooth over relations for my short visits.

Since he's dedicated to magic and defending others (Magic and Protection domains) he likes to cast light on small rocks and sticks for the kids to play with and be safe.

Anything else? :)
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 03:51 AM Hey all

A while ago, and over on the FR boards, I talked about my character I enjoyed playing so far (a real challenge)

Grozan, the Half Orc Cleric 4 of Corellon Larethian

So far, he's tolerated in the city where he was inducted into the faith (Silverymoon) but as we travel further northeast, past grudges and hostilities of the locals override the trust of a "tusk face" even a halfbreed.

With a few ranks in Diplomacy (I had to bump up Cha, but it's no biggie) and a good grasp of roleplaying, I was wondering what are good ways to deflect animosity from those I greet and to smooth over relations for my short visits.

Since he's dedicated to magic and defending others (Magic and Protection domains) he likes to cast light on small rocks and sticks for the kids to play with and be safe.

Anything else? :)

I once played an orc barbarian worshipper of Corellon. He'd decided that Corellon was more powerful than Gruumsh because Corellon took out Gruumsh's eye. It was sort of fun at first, but the conflicts it caused with the party's half-orc cleric of Gruumsh and the orc clerics of Gruumsh featured prominently by the DM got old quickly.

One session when I couldn't make it the party (maybe 5th-6th level) decided to attack some hill giants who were standing up on a clifftop throwing rocks at the party. So each party member tried to climb up this cliff face and they all arrived at different times. The hill giants, who are much more effective with their clubs than with rocks, killed each character as he got to the top of the cliff. That's when I quit the group and started my own (Eberron) group on the same evening. :D
Millenia
02-10-07, 04:51 AM I would probably suggest hiding any obvious signs that you worship Corellon and following the traditions of your area. ^^;a Otherwise, I don't really know how to help you there.
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 04:58 AM I would probably suggest hiding any obvious signs that you worship Corellon and following the traditions of your area. ^^;a Otherwise, I don't really know how to help you there.

Yeah, I suspect that so long as you continue moving into new areas you'll meet the same old prejudices. If you select an area as your home base you might be able to break through the local prejudices through your acts of goodness and perhaps with help from the local elven and half-elven clerics of Corellan who put in a good word for you. If you keep moving, however, you will almost always encounter anti-orc prejudice. If you go into orcish areas, ironically, and they discover you worshipping Corellan, you'll have worse to deal with then mere prejudice. Alas outside of the temple of Corellan itself, you will find little place for him in the world.
Azar_of_Faerun
02-10-07, 05:01 AM Oh yeah, Moon Elves are the most accommodating to him, but so far Sun Elf encounters are "slightly uncivil" at best :(

Funny thing that, he was raised in Sembia in secret by adoptive elven parents (Sembia is known for it's racism, particularly towards elves)
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 07:10 AM Oh yeah, Moon Elves are the most accommodating to him, but so far Sun Elf encounters are "slightly uncivil" at best :(

Funny thing that, he was raised in Sembia in secret by adoptive elven parents (Sembia is known for it's racism, particularly towards elves)

It's been so long since I looked at Faerun that I don't even recall the difference between Sun and Moon elves.

Edit: I vaguely recall that one of them, perhaps the Sun Elf, tended toward arrogance.

I also recalled that one of the hal-celestial barbarians I played came from the Sembian town of Yhaunn. He's been shipwrecked alone on an island in the somewhere around where the The Dragon Reach connects to The Sea of Fallen Stars, and had remained their until he grew his wings and learned how to fly. Then he flew back to Sembia--and that's when the campaign started. He was neutral good, following Lathander. He was a great character whom I enjoyed playing immensely. Alas I'd fallen in with at DM who disliked good characters, preferring neutral and even evil characters, but hadn't bothered to warn me from the outset. Not surprisingly we parted ways after a couple of months.
runestar
02-10-07, 07:46 AM I am guessing this scenario will be a lot like a certain dual-wielding dark elf. You will just have to earn their trust a little at a time. :P
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 08:28 AM I am guessing this scenario will be a lot like a certain dual-wielding dark elf. You will just have to earn their trust a little at a time. :P

I've never heard of such a thing. ;)

There is, however, a good-aligned drow sorceress in the party in the campaign I run. She is, naturally, the first good-aligned drow anyone anywhere ever conceived. :) Seriously though, in my campaign world almost nobody on the surface has even heard of a drow. It has been many millenia since the drow went underground, and there has been little contact between Underdark and the surface. So our drow sorceress has been walking around on the surface with people simply marvelling at a beatiful, black-skinned elf, and rather than being prejudiced against her, they find her entrancing. :)
Grod_The_Giant
02-10-07, 09:08 AM Sorry to say, but a 'beutiful drow mage' was a major character in a series of FR books.
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 09:16 AM Sorry to say, but a 'beutiful drow mage' was a major character in a series of FR books.

A. I didn't know that.
B. Was she good-aligned?
C. I was just kidding about being the first to conceive of a good-aligned drow. :D
V8122
02-10-07, 09:35 AM I am guessing this scenario will be a lot like a certain dual-wielding dark elf. You will just have to earn their trust a little at a time. :P

:uh-huh:How many references have I seen now? 3000?
runestar
02-10-07, 10:16 AM How many references have I seen now? 3000?
Only?:embarrass
Hack and Smasher
02-10-07, 10:26 AM Maybe wearing a bulleye on head since you've already seemed to have done just about everything else possible to make your self a target for that of thing.:rolleyes:

Oh i should actully say something constructive, erm...
I suggest focusing more on active further your gods goals and the recovery of lost relics, its gonna be thankless but you'll actully going out there doing and something useful.
High Octane
02-10-07, 12:25 PM Sorry to say, but a 'beutiful drow mage' was a major character in a series of FR books.

Riiiiiight, so everyone who ever wants to play a beautiful drow mage is obviously just copying off those books.
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 12:47 PM Riiiiiight, so everyone who ever wants to play a beautiful drow mage is obviously just copying off those books.

Sure, just like everyone who wants to play a halfling or a half-orc is obviously just copying off of Lord of the Rings. :D
Salla
02-10-07, 01:18 PM In this instance, the FR cosmology works in your favor.

Since the gods are known to exist and meddle, and there's no way to 'fake' your patron deity, and all clerics must have a patron deity, your spellcasting would be proof enough that you are, in fact, a follower of Corellon and therefore can't be evil (because of Corellon's CG alignment and the clerical alignment restrictions).

That should be more than enough proof for anybody to ditch their preconceptions, in any rational universe but this is FR we're talking about.
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 01:23 PM In this instance, the FR cosmology works in your favor.

Since the gods are known to exist and meddle, and there's no way to 'fake' your patron deity, and all clerics must have a patron deity, your spellcasting would be proof enough that you are, in fact, a follower of Corellon and therefore can't be evil (because of Corellon's CG alignment and the clerical alignment restrictions).

That should be more than enough proof for anybody to ditch their preconceptions, in any rational universe but this is FR we're talking about.

If you're dealing with people familiar with clerics, that makes sense. Many ignorant commoner types might not understand about having patron deities, or recognize your holy symbol as belonging to a good god even if they did. We tend to take for granted that we all would recognize Corellon's holy symbol, though I must say that even as a someone who's DMed and played for 28 years I don't recall his holy symbol off hand. Certainly though his use of Corellon's holy symbol to cast spells would tend to assure those familiar with the symbol, although it's possible an arcane spellcaster could mimic clerical-spellcasting, especially to nonspellcasters. Still, the holy symbol and curing spells should work for a fair number of people. :)
Tempest Stormwind
02-10-07, 01:24 PM In this instance, the FR cosmology works in your favor.

Since the gods are known to exist and meddle, and there's no way to 'fake' your patron deity, and all clerics must have a patron deity, your spellcasting would be proof enough that you are, in fact, a follower of Corellon and therefore can't be evil (because of Corellon's CG alignment and the clerical alignment restrictions).

That should be more than enough proof for anybody to ditch their preconceptions, in any rational universe but this is FR we're talking about.

But by the same token, the Player's Handbook says his character is illegal. Look on page 106, and you'll see quite clearly that a character cannot be a cleric of a racial deity unless he is a member of that race. You can have a half-orc worshipping Corellon, but only an elf (or half-elf due to Elven Blood) can be a cleric of Corellon.
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 01:27 PM But by the same token, the Player's Handbook says his character is illegal. Look on page 106, and you'll see quite clearly that a character cannot be a cleric of a racial deity unless he is a member of that race. You can have a half-orc worshipping Corellon, but only an elf (or half-elf due to Elven Blood) can be a cleric of Corellon.

Maybe instead of a half-orc, half-human, he's a half-orc, half-elf. :D Seriously though, the DM is already allowing the half-orc cleric of Corellon, so it's pretty silly to quote the rules as though that would in any way help the original poster with his challenge.
Salla
02-10-07, 01:36 PM But by the same token, the Player's Handbook says his character is illegal. Look on page 106, and you'll see quite clearly that a character cannot be a cleric of a racial deity unless he is a member of that race. You can have a half-orc worshipping Corellon, but only an elf (or half-elf due to Elven Blood) can be a cleric of Corellon.

I was assuming that rule didn't exist in FR (just as the rule that says you HAVE to have a patron deity to be a cleric is FR-only), as I haven't played in FR since before 3rd Edition was released. :)

If that rule exists in FR, then, yeah, this whole situation just got muddier. :)
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 01:46 PM I was assuming that rule didn't exist in FR (just as the rule that says you HAVE to have a patron deity to be a cleric is FR-only), as I haven't played in FR since before 3rd Edition was released. :)

If that rule exists in FR, then, yeah, this whole situation just got muddier. :)

The DM is already allowing the half-orc cleric of Corellon, so the rule doesn't do anything as it's not in effect.
Salla
02-10-07, 01:48 PM The DM is already allowing the half-orc cleric of Corellon, so the rule doesn't do anything as it's not in effect.

Yes, but the question is ... what other rules (relevant to this situation) don't apply? :)

(And I always thought that rule about racial deities was pretty stupid and don't use it, myself.)
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 01:56 PM Yes, but the question is ... what other rules (relevant to this situation) don't apply? :)

(And I always thought that rule about racial deities was pretty stupid and don't use it, myself.)

Like what other rules?
Salla
02-10-07, 05:46 PM Like what other rules?

For instance, if he's not using the 'must be member of race for racial deity' rules, is he also using the 'alignment must be within a step' rules. Actually, that's the only one I can think of that really applies.

Maybe the 'clerics can't cast opposite alignment tag spells' one, too.
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 06:15 PM For instance, if he's not using the 'must be member of race for racial deity' rules, is he also using the 'alignment must be within a step' rules. Actually, that's the only one I can think of that really applies.

Maybe the 'clerics can't cast opposite alignment tag spells' one, too.

Sure, if a Corellan accepts evil clerics, it would change things, but unless I hear otherwise I'm not going to assume that's the case.
Thubby
02-10-07, 08:59 PM the easiest way to stop haters in new towns. overpay your bill, help in EVERYTHING, runaway cart gonna squich someone, stop it, someone need a few gp for a new horse, you help. buy lots of rounds for everyone at the tavern. and submit to rules you dont have to (by nature of your power).

do amazingly good stuff, and hope it spreads. and for god sake, be VERY distinctive. drizzt has issues because hes none to different from your next drow to a passerby. thubby wheres brightly pollished mithral full plate, and has a kitten. try not noticing THAT
Votan
02-11-07, 12:04 AM I think that part of this is how important is it to the character that people a) see him as a cleric and b) know that it is of Corellon?

If the issue is his being a Half Orc because the local loathe Orcs of all kinds then this is hard to do much about. It's a bit painful to add significant role-playing penalties to what is already a rather weak race but sometimes that is the nature of the campaign world. But fellow clerics of Corellon, once convinced of his veracity, shouldn't be openly hostile (although subtle issues will clearly remain) so he should be able to get some support.

But if he is in a region where Half Orcs are, themselves, accepted then this shouldn't be a huge problem. It might be best not to wear a sign talking about his unusual diety choice.

Why does he worship Corellon? His elf foster parents influence? Some elf dieties might make sense but this is actually one of the less likely in a Forgotten Realms context. I'd be much more likely to see a Half-Orc cleric of Shevarash or Erevan Ilesere. Corellan seems too focused on the direct features of elves for most such things to arise.
CelestialBarbarian
02-11-07, 12:48 AM the easiest way to stop haters in new towns. overpay your bill, help in EVERYTHING, runaway cart gonna squich someone, stop it, someone need a few gp for a new horse, you help. buy lots of rounds for everyone at the tavern. and submit to rules you dont have to (by nature of your power).

do amazingly good stuff, and hope it spreads. and for god sake, be VERY distinctive. drizzt has issues because hes none to different from your next drow to a passerby. thubby wheres brightly pollished mithral full plate, and has a kitten. try not noticing THAT

At the same time, don't overdo it. You might, say, tip 30% rather than the standard 15%, but don't tip 300% or people will view it as you trying to buy their affection rather than you being a good guy. You have to strike a balance between doing what a normal non-half-orc would do and doing too much.
Azar_of_Faerun
02-11-07, 03:09 AM Um

I hear about human Clerics of Bahamut/Tiamat all the time, totally different species. So why is that okay, and mine is not? :confused:
CelestialBarbarian
02-11-07, 03:24 AM Um

I hear about human Clerics of Bahamut/Tiamat all the time, totally different species. So why is that okay, and mine is not? :confused:

You raise a good point that even though one rule says that such things can't exist, another rule specifically says it does exist. The latter rule could be viewed as an isolated exception, but any exception sets the precedent that you can have an exception to the general rule, thus at least opening the door to the possibility of a second exception.

I think though that the bottom line here is that your DM is allowing your half-orc cleric of Corellan, it makes for a good story and good roleplaying, andit doesn't ruin any sort of game balance, so don't worry about the general rule.
Votan
02-11-07, 03:33 AM Um

I hear about human Clerics of Bahamut/Tiamat all the time, totally different species. So why is that okay, and mine is not? :confused:

It's not that the cleric isn't okay. It is just when I read the description of he diety in "Faiths and Pantheons" it is all about cherishing elves as the source of all sorts of cool things.

In the same book Tiamat is specifically given "The cult of the Dragon" as a portfolio and there is even text on what non-dragon worshippers are expected to do. They even have a clause" Chromatic dragons everywhere are to be venerated as the spawn of the Dragon Queen and paid homage." She is listed as general diety and not a moster or racial diety. Curiously, Bahamut isn't in that book so I can't see whether the FR version of him might be equally inclusive.

Corellon's dogma begins with "The elves are the sculptors and warden's of magic's endless mysteries." It goes on with how to bring this forth and how to protect and nurture it. It is possible to worship aspects of Corellon that are not "elf-centric" but that is kind of his default set-up.

Other elf dieties have portfolios that would be easier to explain how a non-elf would be drawn to them such as Shevarash (Kill Drow, Vengence -- with the right motives he'd take a Half-Orc as a lesser evil) or Erevan Ilesere (change, mischief and rogues -- clearly he'd take a non-elf worshipper just to shake people up). Looking more closely, Fenmarel Mestarine has a portfolio that includes outcasts, scapegoats and those in isolation (perhaps the best elf diety for a foster Half-Orc).

A couple of others are actually worse fits such as Labelas Enoreth (who seems focused on using the long life of the elves) or Deep Sashelas.

It's true that anybody can worship any diety but a cleric has a two way connection as far as I can tell -- so there has to be some sort of reason for the two to interact. Tiamat actively seeks out humans who venerate dragons. But Corellon seems a odd choice to bless a Half-Orc unless he was trying to make soem sort of point.
Azar_of_Faerun
02-11-07, 03:45 AM Well, he is a deity that judges others on a case by case basis and not altogether (being chaotic and whatnot) in my opinion.:)

That aside, having a worshiper who's part stock of your sworn enemy could be a major victory for Corellon. Whether that's selfish or good, i'm not sure.

Oh yeah, and Bahamut was mentioned as "Xymor" in Dragons of Faerun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Azar_of_Faerun 02-10-07, 03:15 AM	Hey all A while ago, and over on the FR boards, I talked about my character I enjoyed playing so far (a real challenge) Grozan, the Half Orc Cleric 4 of Corellon Larethian So far, he's tolerated in the city where he was inducted into the faith (Silverymoon) but as we travel further northeast, past grudges and hostilities of the locals override the trust of a "tusk face" even a halfbreed. With a few ranks in Diplomacy (I had to bump up Cha, but it's no biggie) and a good grasp of roleplaying, I was wondering what are good ways to deflect animosity from those I greet and to smooth over relations for my short visits. Since he's dedicated to magic and defending others (Magic and Protection domains) he likes to cast light on small rocks and sticks for the kids to play with and be safe. Anything else? :)
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 03:51 AM	Hey all A while ago, and over on the FR boards, I talked about my character I enjoyed playing so far (a real challenge) Grozan, the Half Orc Cleric 4 of Corellon Larethian So far, he's tolerated in the city where he was inducted into the faith (Silverymoon) but as we travel further northeast, past grudges and hostilities of the locals override the trust of a "tusk face" even a halfbreed. With a few ranks in Diplomacy (I had to bump up Cha, but it's no biggie) and a good grasp of roleplaying, I was wondering what are good ways to deflect animosity from those I greet and to smooth over relations for my short visits. Since he's dedicated to magic and defending others (Magic and Protection domains) he likes to cast light on small rocks and sticks for the kids to play with and be safe. Anything else? :) I once played an orc barbarian worshipper of Corellon. He'd decided that Corellon was more powerful than Gruumsh because Corellon took out Gruumsh's eye. It was sort of fun at first, but the conflicts it caused with the party's half-orc cleric of Gruumsh and the orc clerics of Gruumsh featured prominently by the DM got old quickly. One session when I couldn't make it the party (maybe 5th-6th level) decided to attack some hill giants who were standing up on a clifftop throwing rocks at the party. So each party member tried to climb up this cliff face and they all arrived at different times. The hill giants, who are much more effective with their clubs than with rocks, killed each character as he got to the top of the cliff. That's when I quit the group and started my own (Eberron) group on the same evening. :D
Millenia 02-10-07, 04:51 AM	I would probably suggest hiding any obvious signs that you worship Corellon and following the traditions of your area. ^^;a Otherwise, I don't really know how to help you there.
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 04:58 AM	I would probably suggest hiding any obvious signs that you worship Corellon and following the traditions of your area. ^^;a Otherwise, I don't really know how to help you there. Yeah, I suspect that so long as you continue moving into new areas you'll meet the same old prejudices. If you select an area as your home base you might be able to break through the local prejudices through your acts of goodness and perhaps with help from the local elven and half-elven clerics of Corellan who put in a good word for you. If you keep moving, however, you will almost always encounter anti-orc prejudice. If you go into orcish areas, ironically, and they discover you worshipping Corellan, you'll have worse to deal with then mere prejudice. Alas outside of the temple of Corellan itself, you will find little place for him in the world.
Azar_of_Faerun 02-10-07, 05:01 AM	Oh yeah, Moon Elves are the most accommodating to him, but so far Sun Elf encounters are "slightly uncivil" at best :( Funny thing that, he was raised in Sembia in secret by adoptive elven parents (Sembia is known for it's racism, particularly towards elves)
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 07:10 AM	Oh yeah, Moon Elves are the most accommodating to him, but so far Sun Elf encounters are "slightly uncivil" at best :( Funny thing that, he was raised in Sembia in secret by adoptive elven parents (Sembia is known for it's racism, particularly towards elves) It's been so long since I looked at Faerun that I don't even recall the difference between Sun and Moon elves. Edit: I vaguely recall that one of them, perhaps the Sun Elf, tended toward arrogance. I also recalled that one of the hal-celestial barbarians I played came from the Sembian town of Yhaunn. He's been shipwrecked alone on an island in the somewhere around where the The Dragon Reach connects to The Sea of Fallen Stars, and had remained their until he grew his wings and learned how to fly. Then he flew back to Sembia--and that's when the campaign started. He was neutral good, following Lathander. He was a great character whom I enjoyed playing immensely. Alas I'd fallen in with at DM who disliked good characters, preferring neutral and even evil characters, but hadn't bothered to warn me from the outset. Not surprisingly we parted ways after a couple of months.
runestar 02-10-07, 07:46 AM	I am guessing this scenario will be a lot like a certain dual-wielding dark elf. You will just have to earn their trust a little at a time. :P
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 08:28 AM	I am guessing this scenario will be a lot like a certain dual-wielding dark elf. You will just have to earn their trust a little at a time. :P I've never heard of such a thing. ;) There is, however, a good-aligned drow sorceress in the party in the campaign I run. She is, naturally, the first good-aligned drow anyone anywhere ever conceived. :) Seriously though, in my campaign world almost nobody on the surface has even heard of a drow. It has been many millenia since the drow went underground, and there has been little contact between Underdark and the surface. So our drow sorceress has been walking around on the surface with people simply marvelling at a beatiful, black-skinned elf, and rather than being prejudiced against her, they find her entrancing. :)
Grod_The_Giant 02-10-07, 09:08 AM	Sorry to say, but a 'beutiful drow mage' was a major character in a series of FR books.
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 09:16 AM	Sorry to say, but a 'beutiful drow mage' was a major character in a series of FR books. A. I didn't know that. B. Was she good-aligned? C. I was just kidding about being the first to conceive of a good-aligned drow. :D
V8122 02-10-07, 09:35 AM	I am guessing this scenario will be a lot like a certain dual-wielding dark elf. You will just have to earn their trust a little at a time. :P :uh-huh:How many references have I seen now? 3000?
runestar 02-10-07, 10:16 AM	How many references have I seen now? 3000? Only?:embarrass
Hack and Smasher 02-10-07, 10:26 AM	Maybe wearing a bulleye on head since you've already seemed to have done just about everything else possible to make your self a target for that of thing.:rolleyes: Oh i should actully say something constructive, erm... I suggest focusing more on active further your gods goals and the recovery of lost relics, its gonna be thankless but you'll actully going out there doing and something useful.
High Octane 02-10-07, 12:25 PM	Sorry to say, but a 'beutiful drow mage' was a major character in a series of FR books. Riiiiiight, so everyone who ever wants to play a beautiful drow mage is obviously just copying off those books.
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 12:47 PM	Riiiiiight, so everyone who ever wants to play a beautiful drow mage is obviously just copying off those books. Sure, just like everyone who wants to play a halfling or a half-orc is obviously just copying off of Lord of the Rings. :D
Salla 02-10-07, 01:18 PM	In this instance, the FR cosmology works in your favor. Since the gods are known to exist and meddle, and there's no way to 'fake' your patron deity, and all clerics must have a patron deity, your spellcasting would be proof enough that you are, in fact, a follower of Corellon and therefore can't be evil (because of Corellon's CG alignment and the clerical alignment restrictions). That should be more than enough proof for anybody to ditch their preconceptions, in any rational universe but this is FR we're talking about.
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 01:23 PM	In this instance, the FR cosmology works in your favor. Since the gods are known to exist and meddle, and there's no way to 'fake' your patron deity, and all clerics must have a patron deity, your spellcasting would be proof enough that you are, in fact, a follower of Corellon and therefore can't be evil (because of Corellon's CG alignment and the clerical alignment restrictions). That should be more than enough proof for anybody to ditch their preconceptions, in any rational universe but this is FR we're talking about. If you're dealing with people familiar with clerics, that makes sense. Many ignorant commoner types might not understand about having patron deities, or recognize your holy symbol as belonging to a good god even if they did. We tend to take for granted that we all would recognize Corellon's holy symbol, though I must say that even as a someone who's DMed and played for 28 years I don't recall his holy symbol off hand. Certainly though his use of Corellon's holy symbol to cast spells would tend to assure those familiar with the symbol, although it's possible an arcane spellcaster could mimic clerical-spellcasting, especially to nonspellcasters. Still, the holy symbol and curing spells should work for a fair number of people. :)
Tempest Stormwind 02-10-07, 01:24 PM	In this instance, the FR cosmology works in your favor. Since the gods are known to exist and meddle, and there's no way to 'fake' your patron deity, and all clerics must have a patron deity, your spellcasting would be proof enough that you are, in fact, a follower of Corellon and therefore can't be evil (because of Corellon's CG alignment and the clerical alignment restrictions). That should be more than enough proof for anybody to ditch their preconceptions, in any rational universe but this is FR we're talking about. But by the same token, the Player's Handbook says his character is illegal. Look on page 106, and you'll see quite clearly that a character cannot be a cleric of a racial deity unless he is a member of that race. You can have a half-orc worshipping Corellon, but only an elf (or half-elf due to Elven Blood) can be a cleric of Corellon.
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 01:27 PM	But by the same token, the Player's Handbook says his character is illegal. Look on page 106, and you'll see quite clearly that a character cannot be a cleric of a racial deity unless he is a member of that race. You can have a half-orc worshipping Corellon, but only an elf (or half-elf due to Elven Blood) can be a cleric of Corellon. Maybe instead of a half-orc, half-human, he's a half-orc, half-elf. :D Seriously though, the DM is already allowing the half-orc cleric of Corellon, so it's pretty silly to quote the rules as though that would in any way help the original poster with his challenge.
Salla 02-10-07, 01:36 PM	But by the same token, the Player's Handbook says his character is illegal. Look on page 106, and you'll see quite clearly that a character cannot be a cleric of a racial deity unless he is a member of that race. You can have a half-orc worshipping Corellon, but only an elf (or half-elf due to Elven Blood) can be a cleric of Corellon. I was assuming that rule didn't exist in FR (just as the rule that says you HAVE to have a patron deity to be a cleric is FR-only), as I haven't played in FR since before 3rd Edition was released. :) If that rule exists in FR, then, yeah, this whole situation just got muddier. :)
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 01:46 PM	I was assuming that rule didn't exist in FR (just as the rule that says you HAVE to have a patron deity to be a cleric is FR-only), as I haven't played in FR since before 3rd Edition was released. :) If that rule exists in FR, then, yeah, this whole situation just got muddier. :) The DM is already allowing the half-orc cleric of Corellon, so the rule doesn't do anything as it's not in effect.
Salla 02-10-07, 01:48 PM	The DM is already allowing the half-orc cleric of Corellon, so the rule doesn't do anything as it's not in effect. Yes, but the question is ... what other rules (relevant to this situation) don't apply? :) (And I always thought that rule about racial deities was pretty stupid and don't use it, myself.)
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 01:56 PM	Yes, but the question is ... what other rules (relevant to this situation) don't apply? :) (And I always thought that rule about racial deities was pretty stupid and don't use it, myself.) Like what other rules?
Salla 02-10-07, 05:46 PM	Like what other rules? For instance, if he's not using the 'must be member of race for racial deity' rules, is he also using the 'alignment must be within a step' rules. Actually, that's the only one I can think of that really applies. Maybe the 'clerics can't cast opposite alignment tag spells' one, too.
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 06:15 PM	For instance, if he's not using the 'must be member of race for racial deity' rules, is he also using the 'alignment must be within a step' rules. Actually, that's the only one I can think of that really applies. Maybe the 'clerics can't cast opposite alignment tag spells' one, too. Sure, if a Corellan accepts evil clerics, it would change things, but unless I hear otherwise I'm not going to assume that's the case.
Thubby 02-10-07, 08:59 PM	the easiest way to stop haters in new towns. overpay your bill, help in EVERYTHING, runaway cart gonna squich someone, stop it, someone need a few gp for a new horse, you help. buy lots of rounds for everyone at the tavern. and submit to rules you dont have to (by nature of your power). do amazingly good stuff, and hope it spreads. and for god sake, be VERY distinctive. drizzt has issues because hes none to different from your next drow to a passerby. thubby wheres brightly pollished mithral full plate, and has a kitten. try not noticing THAT
Votan 02-11-07, 12:04 AM	I think that part of this is how important is it to the character that people a) see him as a cleric and b) know that it is of Corellon? If the issue is his being a Half Orc because the local loathe Orcs of all kinds then this is hard to do much about. It's a bit painful to add significant role-playing penalties to what is already a rather weak race but sometimes that is the nature of the campaign world. But fellow clerics of Corellon, once convinced of his veracity, shouldn't be openly hostile (although subtle issues will clearly remain) so he should be able to get some support. But if he is in a region where Half Orcs are, themselves, accepted then this shouldn't be a huge problem. It might be best not to wear a sign talking about his unusual diety choice. Why does he worship Corellon? His elf foster parents influence? Some elf dieties might make sense but this is actually one of the less likely in a Forgotten Realms context. I'd be much more likely to see a Half-Orc cleric of Shevarash or Erevan Ilesere. Corellan seems too focused on the direct features of elves for most such things to arise.
CelestialBarbarian 02-11-07, 12:48 AM	the easiest way to stop haters in new towns. overpay your bill, help in EVERYTHING, runaway cart gonna squich someone, stop it, someone need a few gp for a new horse, you help. buy lots of rounds for everyone at the tavern. and submit to rules you dont have to (by nature of your power). do amazingly good stuff, and hope it spreads. and for god sake, be VERY distinctive. drizzt has issues because hes none to different from your next drow to a passerby. thubby wheres brightly pollished mithral full plate, and has a kitten. try not noticing THAT At the same time, don't overdo it. You might, say, tip 30% rather than the standard 15%, but don't tip 300% or people will view it as you trying to buy their affection rather than you being a good guy. You have to strike a balance between doing what a normal non-half-orc would do and doing too much.
Azar_of_Faerun 02-11-07, 03:09 AM	Um I hear about human Clerics of Bahamut/Tiamat all the time, totally different species. So why is that okay, and mine is not? :confused:
CelestialBarbarian 02-11-07, 03:24 AM	Um I hear about human Clerics of Bahamut/Tiamat all the time, totally different species. So why is that okay, and mine is not? :confused: You raise a good point that even though one rule says that such things can't exist, another rule specifically says it does exist. The latter rule could be viewed as an isolated exception, but any exception sets the precedent that you can have an exception to the general rule, thus at least opening the door to the possibility of a second exception. I think though that the bottom line here is that your DM is allowing your half-orc cleric of Corellan, it makes for a good story and good roleplaying, andit doesn't ruin any sort of game balance, so don't worry about the general rule.
Votan 02-11-07, 03:33 AM	Um I hear about human Clerics of Bahamut/Tiamat all the time, totally different species. So why is that okay, and mine is not? :confused: It's not that the cleric isn't okay. It is just when I read the description of he diety in "Faiths and Pantheons" it is all about cherishing elves as the source of all sorts of cool things. In the same book Tiamat is specifically given "The cult of the Dragon" as a portfolio and there is even text on what non-dragon worshippers are expected to do. They even have a clause" Chromatic dragons everywhere are to be venerated as the spawn of the Dragon Queen and paid homage." She is listed as general diety and not a moster or racial diety. Curiously, Bahamut isn't in that book so I can't see whether the FR version of him might be equally inclusive. Corellon's dogma begins with "The elves are the sculptors and warden's of magic's endless mysteries." It goes on with how to bring this forth and how to protect and nurture it. It is possible to worship aspects of Corellon that are not "elf-centric" but that is kind of his default set-up. Other elf dieties have portfolios that would be easier to explain how a non-elf would be drawn to them such as Shevarash (Kill Drow, Vengence -- with the right motives he'd take a Half-Orc as a lesser evil) or Erevan Ilesere (change, mischief and rogues -- clearly he'd take a non-elf worshipper just to shake people up). Looking more closely, Fenmarel Mestarine has a portfolio that includes outcasts, scapegoats and those in isolation (perhaps the best elf diety for a foster Half-Orc). A couple of others are actually worse fits such as Labelas Enoreth (who seems focused on using the long life of the elves) or Deep Sashelas. It's true that anybody can worship any diety but a cleric has a two way connection as far as I can tell -- so there has to be some sort of reason for the two to interact. Tiamat actively seeks out humans who venerate dragons. But Corellon seems a odd choice to bless a Half-Orc unless he was trying to make soem sort of point.
Azar_of_Faerun 02-11-07, 03:45 AM	Well, he is a deity that judges others on a case by case basis and not altogether (being chaotic and whatnot) in my opinion.:) That aside, having a worshiper who's part stock of your sworn enemy could be a major victory for Corellon. Whether that's selfish or good, i'm not sure. Oh yeah, and Bahamut was mentioned as "Xymor" in Dragons of Faerun.