Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ericSHINRA 04-16-07, 01:33 PM	Ok, now that I finally get a chance to play after DMing the last three games for my group I've been looking at playing an Awakened Lion or Dire Lion. Now, while I'm familiar with the rules, I'm a bit stuck on determining the ECL of both the Lion and Dire Lion. Everyone will have a 5th level character from the get go... That said, unless I'm wrong I can't play an awakened Lion or Dire Lion can I? The Dire Lion has 8 Hit-Dice and a CR of 5. The Lion has 5 Hit-Dice and a CR of 3.
bobothechimp 04-16-07, 04:52 PM	Your ECL is your Hit Dice plus your level adjustment. Lions do not have a level adjustment, because they are unfit for use as a character. You would have to consult your DM to come up with one. With the unbalanced ability scores, natural armor, skill boosts, pounce, improved grab, rake, and scent I would give it around LA +3 or +4, making it an ECL 8-9 race, not playable at your level. Once again, I have to state, lions do not have a level adjustment, because they are unfit for use as a character.
ericSHINRA 04-16-07, 06:31 PM	Your ECL is your Hit Dice plus your level adjustment. Lions do not have a level adjustment, because they are unfit for use as a character. You would have to consult your DM to come up with one. With the unbalanced ability scores, natural armor, skill boosts, pounce, improved grab, rake, and scent I would give it around LA +3 or +4, making it an ECL 8-9 race, not playable at your level. Once again, I have to state, lions do not have a level adjustment, because they are unfit for use as a character. I know they don't have a level adjustment, thats why I posted to try and figure out how you'd handle this. Oh well... thanks.
Whisper_Swiftblade 04-16-07, 06:39 PM	Perhaps the normal lion would serve better than the dire one. Have you thought about playing a were-lion? I know at least one book I own has stuff for were-tigers so I guess you could just use those, you would get to be a lion some of the time, without worrying too much about bending the rules, there are some nice PrCs were-critters have avalible to them, and best of all, you would not have to worry about the local guards trying to shoot you when you walk into town.
ericSHINRA 04-16-07, 11:42 PM	Perhaps the normal lion would serve better than the dire one. Have you thought about playing a were-lion? I know at least one book I own has stuff for were-tigers so I guess you could just use those, you would get to be a lion some of the time, without worrying too much about bending the rules, there are some nice PrCs were-critters have avalible to them, and best of all, you would not have to worry about the local guards trying to shoot you when you walk into town. Thats an interesting idea. However, the Level Adjustment plus the creature HD make a Lycanthrope unplayable for a ECL 5 character.
ShadowDragon8685 04-17-07, 01:02 AM	Honestly, I'd just let you play a Lion and start taking character classes afterwards. Even then, I think you'd probably still suck a bit.
Taureus_Drakken 04-17-07, 01:39 AM	You could use Savage Species' Anthro-Races. I am sure there is an anthro-lion in there...
ericSHINRA 04-17-07, 04:53 PM	Honestly, I'd just let you play a Lion and start taking character classes afterwards. Even then, I think you'd probably still suck a bit. Yeah, I know he'll be weaker then most PCs of equal level but I still want to play one from a roleplaying standpoint. Also, Exalted feats like Vow of Poverty will be easier. ^_^
danielinthewolvesden 04-17-07, 09:43 PM	Now, while I'm familiar with the rules, I'm a bit stuck on determining the ECL of both the Lion and Dire Lion. Everyone will have a 5th level character from the get go... That said, unless I'm wrong I can't play an awakened Lion or Dire Lion can I? The Dire Lion has 8 Hit-Dice and a CR of 5. The Lion has 5 Hit-Dice and a CR of 3. No hands and no LA, thus really neither is fit. Wanna play a Lion? Play a Wemic. It has 5D8 MH HD, and an LA of +3. You could easily level a Wemic out and play with a nearly full grown one at level 5. (MH= Monstrous Humanoid) Like this Start +2 STR, -2 CHA, +2 Jump, Darkvision. 1. MH HD (Feat) 2. La+1 (+1 NA, +2 STR, +2 Dex, 40' move, +2 Jump) 3. MH HD 4. La+2 (+1 NA, +2 STR, +2 Con, +2 Jump, claws) 5. MH HD (Feat) (Your level) 7. MH HD (+1 Ability) 8. LA+3 (+2 NA, +2 STR, +2 Jump, Large) I assume you know what he gets with each "level/HD" of Monstrous Humanoid or can figure it out from the MM. You could go either way with my "levels" 7 and 8, but I always like to put the best stuff last. I could stat out a Lion similarly (I do not have my MM at hand, so I am not going to right now) but I guess it would be a LA+3 race also, so it would look like the build above. In other words, a Lion is around an 8th level character.
Adric_the_Commoner 04-18-07, 12:29 AM	I did something similar with a cat once. If you say that a druid cast awaken on you, it works out pretty well. The spell does add 2 HD (making it a 7HD character), but you could probably convince your DM to either just not add the two HD, or justify that since a 7HD lion still isn't quite equal to a fighter (boosted strength does not make up for NO class features in my mind) you could just have more HD than everyone else, but be counted as equal.
ericSHINRA 04-18-07, 12:39 AM	No hands and no LA, thus really neither is fit. Wanna play a Lion? Play a Wemic. It has 5D8 MH HD, and an LA of +3. You could easily level a Wemic out and play with a nearly full grown one at level 5. (MH= Monstrous Humanoid) Like this Start +2 STR, -2 CHA, +2 Jump, Darkvision. 1. MH HD (Feat) 2. La+1 (+1 NA, +2 STR, +2 Dex, 40' move, +2 Jump) 3. MH HD 4. La+2 (+1 NA, +2 STR, +2 Con, +2 Jump, claws) 5. MH HD (Feat) (Your level) 7. MH HD (+1 Ability) 8. LA+3 (+2 NA, +2 STR, +2 Jump, Large) I assume you know what he gets with each "level/HD" of Monstrous Humanoid or can figure it out from the MM. You could go either way with my "levels" 7 and 8, but I always like to put the best stuff last. I could stat out a Lion similarly (I do not have my MM at hand, so I am not going to right now) but I guess it would be a LA+3 race also, so it would look like the build above. In other words, a Lion is around an 8th level character. Interesting idea but while we're using a good deal of homebrew material, I'm worried he may not allow this sort of racial progression... Also, the Wemic is cool and all, but I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for. I'd much prefer an awakened creature. I did something similar with a cat once. If you say that a druid cast awaken on you, it works out pretty well. The spell does add 2 HD (making it a 7HD character), but you could probably convince your DM to either just not add the two HD, or justify that since a 7HD lion still isn't quite equal to a fighter (boosted strength does not make up for NO class features in my mind) you could just have more HD than everyone else, but be counted as equal. I'll bring this up with him when I talk to him tomorrow. I think he'd agree that I'd never be perfectly equal to a 5th level character with or without the additional 2HD because I wont have the benefits of additonal feats and ability increased based on class levels. I would just need to rework the Lion's Skill Points which would be factored in based on his new intelligence score.
BloodDragon 04-18-07, 12:43 PM	Your ECL is your Hit Dice plus your level adjustment. Lions do not have a level adjustment, because they are unfit for use as a character. You would have to consult your DM to come up with one. With the unbalanced ability scores, natural armor, skill boosts, pounce, improved grab, rake, and scent I would give it around LA +3 or +4, making it an ECL 8-9 race, not playable at your level. Once again, I have to state, lions do not have a level adjustment, because they are unfit for use as a character. Savage Speices?
bobothechimp 04-18-07, 05:11 PM	Sorry, I don't really understand. What part of my post were you referencing?