Back from the dead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Back from the dead [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Crowind
09-03-07, 02:27 PM In a recent game my character was knocked down to -11 hit points by a critical hit.

We wracked our brains trying to think of a way to undo the damage. We play with action points, so we tried to figure out a way to use them save my character. You can can emulate feats with action points, but only on your turn, so my character can't really do anything.

We stopped the game right there.

Can anyone think of a way to save my character? Maybe the rest of the part could use an action point to emulate a feat I don't know about? Any thoughts? (the party is a paladin, sorcerer, and a rogue.)
boots_pimpleton
09-03-07, 02:31 PM If your paladin has turnning attempts, he could give you fast healing with sacred healing (Cdiv), though I think it requires a turn use (standard action), and you would somehow have to take your turn before you would have died.

If you have a spontaneous divine caster,
have him take extra spell known, pack in close wounds (1st spell compendium) that gives back 5 hp, its an immediate action (but a pal isnt a spontaneous).
You can also have the same spontaneous divine caster cast shield other (2nd PHB), with extra spell known.

If you are real creative, you can have the sorcerer cast nerveskitter (1st SC) to move your initiative before the event occured so that you could do something about it, or he/she could cast it on anyone else so that they can do something about it.

There are additional options, regroup (3rd PHB2) will move your entire party away, so you can pack extra spell known on your sorcerer and cast it to get you closer to whomever has to heal you.

If you are really really desperate, and you need to kill the source, have the sorc use extra spell known to get celerity (4th PHB2) and its an immediate action to cast, for the 4th level slot that player gets another standard action to do something to mitigate the damage or even kill the source before it happens.

What was the situation where you took enough damage to fall below -10, and what were you playing?
If I know what these were, I can possibly make some interesting outcomes.
Dog_O_War
09-03-07, 03:13 PM You wanna save your character from death that is a clear cut, already-happened action? You'd need feats and class abilities that you obviously don't have (as they are really specific and obvious). If your DM is also trying to see ways for you to live, what you need to do - no matter how important he is to the game, or to you - is suck it up and die gracefully. This earns you respect, and if your DM has the really Shipped In High Transit house rule of not being able to purchase a raise dead spell from a cleric ("No ressurections in my game!" even though he'll throw over-powering monsters against you and expect you to live. That and he often uses really bad copouts like, "you don't die...because you fall on a healing potion!" or something equally stupid.), then you can ask him to rethink it as you'd really like to have the chance of playing your hero again.

Death is a part of the game.
boots_pimpleton
09-03-07, 03:35 PM well realize they are playing the game, but with thier way of doing so.
There ARE legitimate ways of surviving without something dumb occuring. All of my ideas are good ideas for trying to keep him alive, especially considering that they have a way of incorperating this action strait into their game via action points.

I say if they find a way to stop him from dying, they should be allowed to do it (wither thier particular house rules). Even in a no resurect game, it can be depressing to go through 1 character a session, and especially when there is no real easy way to implement a new character.
Keeping a character alive is often the easiest solution than making a player make a new PC.
Mælstrøm
09-03-07, 08:27 PM Well I have to chime in against artificially keeping someone alive. If the player characters couldn't die, where would the suspense be? If a really bad thing happens, the character might have to go. You shouldn't stop playing in the hopes of finding a rule that fits, because the rules do not make the game - your imagination does. If your DM wants you to survive, he will find a way - either fudge the die rolls, grant you a reflex/Fort/Will save, maybe the hand of your favorite god reaches down and blocks the damage, it doesn't really matter. It is not the rules that halp in these things, it is the decisions the players and the DM make.

The fight goes on, and your character cannot contribute until raised again. Simple as that. If the party doesn't have enough small chance for a resurrection, either have the local cleric ask you to do him a favor for the resurrection or do something to earn more money. Until then, the body can be kept by the cleric - no biggie.

Maybe you can play an interim character while your main character is "feeling iffy". This can lead to some fun secondary characters. Maybe the DM schedules the next 2 sessions without you and instead grants you some solo adventure either in the realms of the dead or as some sort of flashback before all this happened...

The possibilities are endless, your imagination is the only tether ;)
Hope that helps.
Salla
09-03-07, 09:20 PM Unfortunately, you're not dying, you're flatly dead. Your only real options are getting raised/resurrected or making a new character.
Zandolit
09-03-07, 09:47 PM If the enjoyment of everyone in the group would be increased by this character not dying, I see no point in scrambling to find an appropriate rule. Either re-do the scene, or have a deus ex machina "Your quest is not yet finished" light at the end of the tunnel moment, or have resurrection provided, or whatever.

I've always felt the rules added to the structured enjoyment of the game, but should not be prioritized over that enjoyment. This is especially the case when the consequence is potentially permanent and character-ending. It depends on how much of a "purist" you want to be I suppose, but I see no reason to lessen the fun because the numbers say the character has to die.

I also have never bought the idea that if the characters don't die, the game has no tension and actions have no consequences. A fleshed out character should have a lot more to lose than just their life. If death is the only thing that is seen as a consequence, I can't help but wonder why more effort hasn't been put into character motivations. But maybe that's just me.

The only issue I see here is if the DM and players disagree, but I think the group should talk to him/her honestly about what they would find most fun. I know personally when I DM, I try to make it as enjoyable as possible for everyone, and I know most DMs would feel the same.

If being more loosey goosey on the rules about this is more fun-- particularly in a situation that is lethal for a character-- I see no need to be strict.
DFoster
09-03-07, 10:17 PM Since you want need to do something above what 1 action point would let you do, why don't you spend 2 instead (1 for the Feat Die Hard, and 1 so that the feat is retroactively applied). Of course if I was your DM I'd also suggest maybe you to pick up Die Hard as your next feat.
Dog_O_War
09-04-07, 03:04 AM He'd need the feat, "dead hard" as he is at negative eleven, or -11; dead.
12Shark
09-04-07, 08:01 AM 3 action points then?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crowind 09-03-07, 02:27 PM	In a recent game my character was knocked down to -11 hit points by a critical hit. We wracked our brains trying to think of a way to undo the damage. We play with action points, so we tried to figure out a way to use them save my character. You can can emulate feats with action points, but only on your turn, so my character can't really do anything. We stopped the game right there. Can anyone think of a way to save my character? Maybe the rest of the part could use an action point to emulate a feat I don't know about? Any thoughts? (the party is a paladin, sorcerer, and a rogue.)
boots_pimpleton 09-03-07, 02:31 PM	If your paladin has turnning attempts, he could give you fast healing with sacred healing (Cdiv), though I think it requires a turn use (standard action), and you would somehow have to take your turn before you would have died. If you have a spontaneous divine caster, have him take extra spell known, pack in close wounds (1st spell compendium) that gives back 5 hp, its an immediate action (but a pal isnt a spontaneous). You can also have the same spontaneous divine caster cast shield other (2nd PHB), with extra spell known. If you are real creative, you can have the sorcerer cast nerveskitter (1st SC) to move your initiative before the event occured so that you could do something about it, or he/she could cast it on anyone else so that they can do something about it. There are additional options, regroup (3rd PHB2) will move your entire party away, so you can pack extra spell known on your sorcerer and cast it to get you closer to whomever has to heal you. If you are really really desperate, and you need to kill the source, have the sorc use extra spell known to get celerity (4th PHB2) and its an immediate action to cast, for the 4th level slot that player gets another standard action to do something to mitigate the damage or even kill the source before it happens. What was the situation where you took enough damage to fall below -10, and what were you playing? If I know what these were, I can possibly make some interesting outcomes.
Dog_O_War 09-03-07, 03:13 PM	You wanna save your character from death that is a clear cut, already-happened action? You'd need feats and class abilities that you obviously don't have (as they are really specific and obvious). If your DM is also trying to see ways for you to live, what you need to do - no matter how important he is to the game, or to you - is suck it up and die gracefully. This earns you respect, and if your DM has the really Shipped In High Transit house rule of not being able to purchase a raise dead spell from a cleric ("No ressurections in my game!" even though he'll throw over-powering monsters against you and expect you to live. That and he often uses really bad copouts like, "you don't die...because you fall on a healing potion!" or something equally stupid.), then you can ask him to rethink it as you'd really like to have the chance of playing your hero again. Death is a part of the game.
boots_pimpleton 09-03-07, 03:35 PM	well realize they are playing the game, but with thier way of doing so. There ARE legitimate ways of surviving without something dumb occuring. All of my ideas are good ideas for trying to keep him alive, especially considering that they have a way of incorperating this action strait into their game via action points. I say if they find a way to stop him from dying, they should be allowed to do it (wither thier particular house rules). Even in a no resurect game, it can be depressing to go through 1 character a session, and especially when there is no real easy way to implement a new character. Keeping a character alive is often the easiest solution than making a player make a new PC.
Mælstrøm 09-03-07, 08:27 PM	Well I have to chime in against artificially keeping someone alive. If the player characters couldn't die, where would the suspense be? If a really bad thing happens, the character might have to go. You shouldn't stop playing in the hopes of finding a rule that fits, because the rules do not make the game - your imagination does. If your DM wants you to survive, he will find a way - either fudge the die rolls, grant you a reflex/Fort/Will save, maybe the hand of your favorite god reaches down and blocks the damage, it doesn't really matter. It is not the rules that halp in these things, it is the decisions the players and the DM make. The fight goes on, and your character cannot contribute until raised again. Simple as that. If the party doesn't have enough small chance for a resurrection, either have the local cleric ask you to do him a favor for the resurrection or do something to earn more money. Until then, the body can be kept by the cleric - no biggie. Maybe you can play an interim character while your main character is "feeling iffy". This can lead to some fun secondary characters. Maybe the DM schedules the next 2 sessions without you and instead grants you some solo adventure either in the realms of the dead or as some sort of flashback before all this happened... The possibilities are endless, your imagination is the only tether ;) Hope that helps.
Salla 09-03-07, 09:20 PM	Unfortunately, you're not dying, you're flatly dead. Your only real options are getting raised/resurrected or making a new character.
Zandolit 09-03-07, 09:47 PM	If the enjoyment of everyone in the group would be increased by this character not dying, I see no point in scrambling to find an appropriate rule. Either re-do the scene, or have a deus ex machina "Your quest is not yet finished" light at the end of the tunnel moment, or have resurrection provided, or whatever. I've always felt the rules added to the structured enjoyment of the game, but should not be prioritized over that enjoyment. This is especially the case when the consequence is potentially permanent and character-ending. It depends on how much of a "purist" you want to be I suppose, but I see no reason to lessen the fun because the numbers say the character has to die. I also have never bought the idea that if the characters don't die, the game has no tension and actions have no consequences. A fleshed out character should have a lot more to lose than just their life. If death is the only thing that is seen as a consequence, I can't help but wonder why more effort hasn't been put into character motivations. But maybe that's just me. The only issue I see here is if the DM and players disagree, but I think the group should talk to him/her honestly about what they would find most fun. I know personally when I DM, I try to make it as enjoyable as possible for everyone, and I know most DMs would feel the same. If being more loosey goosey on the rules about this is more fun-- particularly in a situation that is lethal for a character-- I see no need to be strict.
DFoster 09-03-07, 10:17 PM	Since you want need to do something above what 1 action point would let you do, why don't you spend 2 instead (1 for the Feat Die Hard, and 1 so that the feat is retroactively applied). Of course if I was your DM I'd also suggest maybe you to pick up Die Hard as your next feat.
Dog_O_War 09-04-07, 03:04 AM	He'd need the feat, "dead hard" as he is at negative eleven, or -11; dead.
12Shark 09-04-07, 08:01 AM	3 action points then?