Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MasonMurdoc 03-13-07, 12:56 PM	I just heard it from the Horses mouth, that one of the Rogues is actually planning to put us all to sleep so he can steal our valubles. What should be done about this kind of behaviour. It'll only make the other players angry and ruin our fun.
Ack 03-13-07, 01:02 PM	While reacting directly to this is metagaming and technically cheating, if you know the 'how' of it, casually (without informing the player in question) set into place a precaution that will overturn the rogue's plans. Either that or confront the player directly and inform him that a) you are less than impressed, and b) that if he does pull this crap, whatever the group does after that will not include him.
kelvinaw273 03-13-07, 01:03 PM	First, OOC discuss with Dm and point out that PvP usually ends up with at least one disgruntled player. Next speak to the player and point out the various possible negative consequences. Or else do not talk to anybody, and have somebody secretly Alarm your gear. This is always a pain where most of the party want to get on with the adventure, and one player wants to 'have fun' by spoiling everybody elses. Sadly, they usually succede in bringing everyone else down to their level rather than quitting and playing like a mature adult.
Ack 03-13-07, 01:06 PM	That, or strike first. When he's asleep, wake him up then beat him unconscious again. Strip him to his underwear, tie him up and leave him hanging by his ankles over a gorge. Split his belongings between you. And when the player gives you the :uh-huh: :censored: look, just say, "We just felt like it. Seemed like the thing to do."
UAMDB 03-13-07, 01:10 PM	I am glad to say that I hav not had to deal with this since I graduated from Highschool. not saying anything about your group, but most of the cases i have seen or heard with this kind of situation involves immature people. I would try and talk to the player that is planning this action. Explain that it not only ruins the fun for everyone else, it also waste time.
Cromag 03-13-07, 01:55 PM	keep a watch of at least two people. Advise your team mates that you sleep with a weapon at the ready in case of thieves. State you kill thieves. If he tries to rob you kill him, state you thought someone disguised himself as you as no friend would rob you. problem solved. one quick side note if he manages to rob the party make sure he is not accepted back. I doubt the GM will follow a character that will never again be a part of the group. I have instituted this with groups I play in and only had to act on it once.
Gamili 03-13-07, 02:01 PM	Why are you even worrying about it? If a player decides to go PVP, he's no longer in the group and what happens when you're not in the group? That's right, he becomes an NPC. Now don't you think watching him get removed from the game is worth a few magic items?
Ack 03-13-07, 02:03 PM	Why are you even worrying about it? If a player decides to go PVP, he's no longer in the group and what happens when you're not in the group? That's right, he becomes an NPC. Now don't you think watching him get removed from the game is worth a few magic items? This, of course, hinges on the GM thinking the same way. If the GM a) allows such blatant actions, and b) has no plans to remove the PC from the game for simply doing it, then yes, the other players have to act.
danielinthewolvesden 03-13-07, 02:57 PM	Sit down and talk with them like adults. Discuss the issue with everyone and the DM. Explain that such behaviour lessens the fun of the GAME for you.
MasonMurdoc 03-13-07, 03:18 PM	Sit down and talk with them like adults. Discuss the issue with everyone and the DM. Explain that such behaviour lessens the fun of the GAME for you. He isn't someone you can just talk to, and one of the Co-DMs doesn't think its a bad thing. He actually only plans to scam us to get more treasure than the rest of us. But isn't that still unbalancing to the game?
Ack 03-13-07, 03:35 PM	Not necessarily unbalancing, but it makes the fun a lot less for everyone else. While a rogue, and a non-good non-lawful one at that, has no boundaries in the rules against victimising his fellow party members ... ... there is also the unwritten rule that goes, "thou shalt not screw with the people that watch thy back." Such a person that steals from his friends, and thinks that's his due, is a sociopath and should be treated as such. Boot the PC to the kerb as soon as you are able. If the player insists on playing party-destructive characters like that, do the same with him. You can actually have fun in the game without using your fellow PCs as hacky-sacks.
MasonMurdoc 03-13-07, 03:46 PM	I'l be playing a Fire Genasi Sorcorer. Fire Genasi are known o have short tempers, so would it be terrible of me to lose my temper and blow him up? While retaining the Good in Chaotic Good What's a hacky sack exactly?
Stumm_Dolch 03-13-07, 04:01 PM	What's a hacky sack exactly? A small bean bag usually covered in a knitted outer "sack" a little smaller than a tennis ball. Hippies use them by standing in a circle with their fellow hippies (and groupies) and kicking the sack to their friends to be caught with any body part other than your hands and subsequently passed on to another hippie in the circle. The point is to keep it going as long as possible without letting it drop. Usually for people too stoned to play soccer.
Sterling 03-13-07, 04:01 PM	As a DM, I have little tolerance for these kinds of shinanigans. So you don't want to talk to the guy and one of your "Co-DMs" doesn't have a problem with it. What about the other DM? How does he/she feel about it? I seriously suggest talking to everyone involved and letting them know how you and the other players feel about the situation. Cut things off before they get bad. This sort of thing tends to foster resentment and can destroy an otherwise good gaming group (I've seen it happen).
MasonMurdoc 03-13-07, 04:26 PM	As a DM, I have little tolerance for these kinds of shinanigans. So you don't want to talk to the guy and one of your "Co-DMs" doesn't have a problem with it. What about the other DM? How does he/she feel about it? I seriously suggest talking to everyone involved and letting them know how you and the other players feel about the situation. Cut things off before they get bad. This sort of thing tends to foster resentment and can destroy an otherwise good gaming group (I've seen it happen). Firstly, It's not that I don't want to alk to him. I did. He just couldn't see the flaw in it. I haven't ha a chance to talk to the other DM, but I trust he'll be prepared if this does happen We have currently lost most campaigns due to this kind of behaviour already.
Robert Craven 03-13-07, 04:38 PM	This is part of the game. Part of roleplaying. Live with it, but keep it in game! Hey, it's a rogue after all. Why should all characters be 100% loyal to a party they hang out with for some days or weeks? With a good DM such treacheries can go on for sessions unnoticed. But the player should be aware that those action will get his character kicked out of the party in the end. But it should not be a problem for the party. That one player just introduces a new character and life goes on.
Ack 03-13-07, 04:45 PM	This is part of the game. Part of roleplaying. Live with it, but keep it in game! Hey, it's a rogue after all. Why should all characters be 100% loyal to a party they hang out with for some days or weeks? With a good DM such treacheries can go on for sessions unnoticed. But the player should be aware that those action will get his character kicked out of the party in the end. But it should not be a problem for the party. That one player just introduces a new character and life goes on. In a campaign such as this one, I would have my character develop the habit of checking his gear (and counting his money) on a daily occasion. And Moradin help the rogue if there's something missing and he can't account for every second of his time. Hey, if the rogue doesn't have to be trustworthy, we don't have to trust him. Fair's fair.
MasonMurdoc 03-13-07, 05:07 PM	In a campaign such as this one, I would have my character develop the habit of checking his gear (and counting his money) on a daily occasion. And Moradin help the rogue if there's something missing and he can't account for every second of his time. Hey, if the rogue doesn't have to be trustworthy, we don't have to trust him. Fair's fair. It is, and I'll rephrane from blowing him up
cow66 03-13-07, 05:12 PM	:schemes: I say you banish him:evillaugh :plotting: :devil: :schemes:
Ack 03-13-07, 05:25 PM	It is, and I'll rephrane from blowing him up Well, you can blow him up a tiny bit, if you think it'll help :P
FntsyWlkr 03-13-07, 05:46 PM	Allow me to offer experience from the opposite camp: I am used to playing in groups where there is PVP action, and players can do manuvers such as this. Many times the most exciting aspect of this game is the inter-player content. To limit backstabbing but allow marriages, to limit stealing but allow vow of poverty ... in turn also eliminates the group from experiencing the full gamet of interactions. This truly works when a DM is great at free-styling. He can create an NPC that would oust the PC ... All of this is under the guise that the PVP does not overrun the module or campaign. I have found this can tremendously add to the campaignand sometimes the storyline of internal redemption can help add to the build of the storyline.
Ack 03-13-07, 05:48 PM	The point is, that if one part of the party is working under the assumption that inter-party screwing around like this doesn't happen, and the other part of the party is going, "Hey, I'll do it 'cause I can!" then there is a conflict, which could lead to bad feelings and disintegration of game.
Robert Craven 03-13-07, 06:39 PM	In a campaign such as this one, I would have my character develop the habit of checking his gear (and counting his money) on a daily occasion. And Moradin help the rogue if there's something missing and he can't account for every second of his time. Hey, if the rogue doesn't have to be trustworthy, we don't have to trust him. Fair's fair. Right! That's exactly how you should treat that situation IMHO. Simple and logical in-game solution. Just be sure, everyone knows that something like this is possible.
mgratton 03-13-07, 08:19 PM	It was mentioned above that most of their campaigns have gone down in flames due to PvP. Ideally the actions of the characters shouldn't spill over into hard feelings for the players but it does happen at least some of the time for at least some of the players. Since PvP has repeatedly ruined their campaigns, I would think the DM's might want to nip it in the bud. I've been on both sides of that conflict. I do tend to limit messing with other characters since it is easy to cause hard feelings between players. just my 2 cents. mikeg
pflame5000 03-13-07, 10:06 PM	Just be ready for something like this. If someone in your group could easily do it, couldn't NPCs. My DM doesn't really like PvP, but he lets us do what we would do in character. If he tries, you should have something set up (you should have something set up just in case of theives anyways), or after he does, hunt him down. This might drag out the campaign a bit, but if your DM can improvise at all, it generally doesn't turn out too bad. For example: lets say he makes off with your gear, if he went to any city, wouldn't gaurds consider suspicious? If you report that your gear was stolen or whatever, then it might work out. If nothing else, just hire a ranger to hunt him down.
Nova Fujit 03-13-07, 10:33 PM	step 1: catch him in the act step 2: disable (not kill) him and the bind him with rope or something of that nature step 3: Turn him into the local milta...or in the case for him not trying to murder you. Leave him in the nearest tavern after getting him as drunk as you possibly can and take your share of the loot that he took from the group...leave him to his own and never return for him. problem solved... if the same situation happens rinse and repeat... really this is the only option that you as characters have other than intervention from the DM...which can be achieved by talking to him before or after said situation happens. Rogue does not mean thief...tons of people get this confused
danielinthewolvesden 03-13-07, 11:38 PM	He isn't someone you can just talk to, and one of the Co-DMs doesn't think its a bad thing. He actually only plans to scam us to get more treasure than the rest of us. There is no mortal being you can not just sit down and talk with. If he reacts badly to an adult talk, then you know you have to find some grown-ups to game with. There is no IC solution to this. If you CdG his PC, he'll bring back another who will kill yours. And so on..... It's an OOC problem that has to be solved like adults.
shadowoftreefrog 03-14-07, 12:46 AM	How does the player who is thinking of doing the thieving actually feel about the thieving? Is he just doing it out of malice and a bad egg that brings down the group? or is he actually doing it because he honestly feels thats what his character would do in this situation? If he's a good RP'r and is doing this because it is his honest belief that is is what his character would do, then you can deal with it In-character as you honestly feel your character would deal with it. If he's doing it just to be a punk, then make sure that the co-dm knows he's just being a jerk and not a player, I still think you shouldn't be a jerk right back to him (moral high road and all) however if he's not fun to play with, don't play with him, talk to the other players and get rid of him, if he can't be gotten rid of, you can play with differen't people. It's possible the guy is just stupid and doesn't realize that while he is having fun, he's ruining it for everyone else. you could drop hints like " Some people hate it when their characters **** gets stolen, other people hate it when every new character they roll keeps accidentally ending up in that fireball" I mean its a pretty straightforward threat but it can also get the idea to him that he's taking away everyone elses thunder. What you can do really depends on the person behind the roque that wants to take your ****. but ultimately you really should talk to him ooc and find some way of asking him not to be a dick without offending him if possible.
MasonMurdoc 03-14-07, 03:12 AM	How does the player who is thinking of doing the thieving actually feel about the thieving? Is he just doing it out of malice and a bad egg that brings down the group? or is he actually doing it because he honestly feels thats what his character would do in this situation? A bit of both, his character probably would do that. But he decided this before the campaign even started, and is clearly doing it out of greed. If he's doing it just to be a punk, then make sure that the co-dm knows he's just being a jerk and not a player, I still think you shouldn't be a jerk right back to him (moral high road and all) however if he's not fun to play with, don't play with him, talk to the other players and get rid of him, if he can't be gotten rid of, you can play with differen't people. I've spoken to both DMd, one of them doesn't get the concept of DMing that well and the other doesn't want us relying on him chipping in everytime a teammate acts up. I'll rehrane from blowing him up, maybe just the treasure:D. We can't just ditch him, coz we're a group of friends and it would only causeproblems out o game. If he's a good RP'r and is doing this because it is his honest belief that is is what his character would do, then you can deal with it In-character as you honestly feel your character would deal with it. He'snot a great roll player, but an in-gamesolution seems to be my only choice. It's possible the guy is just stupid and doesn't realize that while he is having fun, he's ruining it for everyone else. you could drop hints like " Some people hate it when their characters **** gets stolen, other people hate it when every new character they roll keeps accidentally ending up in that fireball" I mean its a pretty straightforward threat but it can also get the idea to him that he's taking away everyone elses thunder. Yes it's very possible, in-fact I know he is. He cant get it around his head that unhappy players = Dead campaign. I like the threat/hint, it could be fun. It could be helpful though. What you can do really depends on the person behind the roque that wants to take your ****. but ultimately you really should talk to him ooc and find some way of asking him not to be a dick without offending him if possible. I tried, but I can't say anything without him either taking it the wrong way or being an arse. He always tends to see me as the bad guy.
Ack 03-14-07, 04:18 AM	Okay, here's what you do then. Arrange the following between your fellow players and the GMs (keeping them in the loop is a basic courtesy, but ask them not to tell the player of the rogue): Step 1: Have the other characters decide in-game that they want your character to watch their gear while in camp (for whatever reason). Step 2: Have a caster put an illusion on your character to make it look like he's sound asleep (this should deal with any Sense Motive checks the rogue does) during the rogue's watch. Step 3: When the Rogue decides to come loot the gear, beat nine shades of crap out of him, strip him of all weapons and equipment (especially his lockpicks) and bind him with the chains and Amazing quality locks you purchased in the last town. If he tries to wriggle free, apply a Diplomacy check with the point of sword and ask him nicely to stop. Step 4: Ask the player of the rogue what he wants - to drop the character and come back with something party-friendly, or to try to atone for his utter and total screwup. Whatever he chooses, hold him to it. He is now on probation, and he must realise this. If he accepts with good grace (either way) and makes good, that's great. You now have another good player. If he gets all huffy and leaves, that's fine. You've just lost a bad player. And if he agrees to reform but goes back on his word, rinse and repeat as often as necessary. Lowering the level of his returning character each time.
MasonMurdoc 03-14-07, 04:25 AM	Sounds like a plan I might make him a bit weary of theives But the thing is.....This is a Theives Guild campaign, which I've recently been "recruited" for. Does it make sense not to trust theives, I think it makes more sense than usual But I want another opinion
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-14-07, 09:30 AM	I just heard it from the Horses mouth, that one of the Rogues is actually planning to put us all to sleep so he can steal our valubles. What should be done about this kind of behaviour. It'll only make the other players angry and ruin our fun. Simple. Wait till it happens and then say "(Player name), that was a really a-hole thing to do. You just toally crapped all over everyone's good time. You know what, screw this. I'm just not into playing D&D with a selfish prick today. I'm going to go see 300" and then get up to leave. It'll work even better if you arrange it ahead of time to have all the other players agree and follow your lead.
MasonMurdoc 03-14-07, 10:14 AM	Simple. Wait till it happens and then say "(Player name), that was a really a-hole thing to do. You just toally crapped all over everyone's good time. You know what, screw this. I'm just not into playing D&D with a selfish prick today. I'm going to go see 300" and then get up to leave. It'll work even better if you arrange it ahead of time to have all the other players agree and follow your lead. I like that plan :D Didn't know 300 was out yet Though I'd feel a little guilty about ruining a session for the DMs I I let them kno I planned it they' stop me and I'd be the "selfish prick"
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-14-07, 10:57 AM	I like that plan :D Didn't know 300 was out yet Though I'd feel a little guilty about ruining a session for the DMs I I let them kno I planned it they' stop me and I'd be the "selfish prick" Well the hope is that such a dramatic move would inspire the DM to call a Mulligan and "rewind" the scenario and that the player would be shamed into smartening the hell up.
MasonMurdoc 03-14-07, 11:05 AM	Well the hope is that such a dramatic move would inspire the DM to call a Mulligan and "rewind" the scenario and that the player would be shamed into smartening the hell up. I'll give it a go
_Jayne_Cobb_ 03-14-07, 11:09 AM	I have one simple rule in my games that overrides all others: your PCs need not love each other but they need to function together. This is a game and we are all playing together to have a good time. Any PC's actions which **** all over that are not allowed, period, and I really don't give a rolling rat's ass how "meta" that is.
MasonMurdoc 03-14-07, 11:48 AM	I have one simple rule in my games that overrides all others: your PCs need not love each other but they need to function together. This is a game and we are all playing together to have a good time. Any PC's actions which **** all over that are not allowed, period, and I really don't give a rolling rat's ass how "meta" that is. Sounds fair I might suggest that as a permanant House rule That we have to agree not a single person can "turn off" when DMing
bob_the_great 03-14-07, 12:39 PM	somehow i have never had this problem. coincidentally i didn't start playing d&d until my 20s. players that steal from the party should be like paladins: only play them with party approval. i don't want my enjoyment of the game hampered because of your character. Simple. Wait till it happens and then say "(Player name), that was a really a-hole thing to do. You just toally crapped all over everyone's good time. You know what, screw this. I'm just not into playing D&D with a selfish prick today. I'm going to go see 300" and then get up to leave. It'll work even better if you arrange it ahead of time to have all the other players agree and follow your lead. basically what he said.
Darkwolf71 03-14-07, 12:50 PM	Arcane Mark. Cast it on everything you own. If your sorcerer didn't take it, get a wand. Or if you have a wizard in the party get him to cast it for you. (As well as on his own stuff.) Then when your stuff comes up missing. D-Mag and.. Oh my! How on earth did you get my <insert whatever here> in your possesion? Deal with as the party sees fit.
MasonMurdoc 03-14-07, 12:57 PM	Arcane Mark. Cast it on everything you own. If your sorcerer didn't take it, get a wand. Or if you have a wizard in the party get him to cast it for you. (As well as on his own stuff.) Then when your stuff comes up missing. D-Mag and.. Oh my! How on earth did you get my <insert whatever here> in your possesion? Deal with as the party sees fit. That's so awesome :D What about coins though?
Orcdoubleax 03-14-07, 02:01 PM	Why are you even worrying about it? If a player decides to go PVP, he's no longer in the group and what happens when you're not in the group? That's right, he becomes an NPC. Now don't you think watching him get removed from the game is worth a few magic items? this is how how I would handle something blantent, but some small thievery and schemes I let slid. I do usally throw them back into the mix later. example: Party has some very specific (The armour was layers of chains that the person wrapped around themselves) evil magic armour Pally is adament about destroying it Three party members hatch a plan. The fighter takes the armour to destroy it,but with the help of the rogue and ranger they secretly sell it and split the cash. I allowed this, but shorthly after the party hears a story of a crazed soilder wearing the same very specific armour. This time the pally didn't put two and two together, but the three players involved got pretty nervous.
MasonMurdoc 03-14-07, 02:35 PM	this is how how I would handle something blantent, but some small thievery and schemes I let slid. I do usally throw them back into the mix later. example: Party has some very specific (The armour was layers of chains that the person wrapped around themselves) evil magic armour Pally is adament about destroying it Three party members hatch a plan. The fighter takes the armour to destroy it,but with the help of the rogue and ranger they secretly sell it and split the cash. I allowed this, but shorthly after the party hears a story of a crazed soilder wearing the same very specific armour. This time the pally didn't put two and two together, but the three players involved got pretty nervous. Nice. :D
Magetastic 03-14-07, 03:04 PM	Sleep in one of these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ropeTrick.htm) pull up the rope and don't invite the rouge. Or you could use this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesFaithfulHound.htm) nothing stops a crook better than invisible dog teeth to the arse.
MasonMurdoc 03-14-07, 04:03 PM	Sleep in one of these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ropeTrick.htm) pull up the rope and don't invite the rouge. Or you could use this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesFaithfulHound.htm) nothing stops a crook better than invisible dog teeth to the arse. Haha Awesome
RetiredThief 03-14-07, 09:39 PM	I've played in mature groups who could handle rascally characters trying to do things behind the backs of the do-good characters. It can be lots of fun. However, the key word is 'mature.' Both the good and not-so-good sides have to act within limits. Otherwise, either the DM's have to rule out such stuff, or a new group WILL be formed. Not should be formed, or must be formed, but WILL be formed. Eventually someone will give up and leave. End of group. And sometimes that's better for everyone involved.
Steven_Arborosa 03-14-07, 09:55 PM	I had a player who wanted to be a conman, and use some stuff to scam the rest of the group out of a few gold pieces. It was good for roleplaying, but I knew it would kill the other 3's fun, so I just sat down and talked with the conman player, and worked it out. However, if the DMs are irresponsible, and the player robs you, scams you, betrays you, or whatever he does... Well, if I was the PC, I'd probably beat him to death. I'm not going to say if it's in game or not.... :twitch:
ShadowDragon8685 03-14-07, 10:54 PM	Okay, here's how you handle it. Presuming you play at someone's house for this. 1: Get all the other players in on this beforehand. 2: Presuming you guys have a vast numerical/physical advantage over him. The plan is thus: When he pops this crap, everyone stands up from the table. The two largest of you grab him and bodily haul him to the front door while someone packs his things and the other person holds the door. Give him his things, and boot him from the residence. Shut and lock the door behind him, after warning him that if he does not depart posthaste, you will summon the police. Return to the DM(s), sit down, and calmly explain that you will not tolerate these shennanigans anymore, and that the rest of you are trying to have a fun game, not a player-versus-player game.
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 02:44 PM	Not only does he plan to rob my character He is now spamming other threads I make
Aiwen 03-15-07, 04:00 PM	He isn't someone you can just talk to, and one of the Co-DMs doesn't think its a bad thing. He actually only plans to scam us to get more treasure than the rest of us. But isn't that still unbalancing to the game? i am this particular co-DM, and i'd like to point out that i never said that this "wasnt a bad thing", i simply said he should sort this out in game. not that the game is starting for a while cos we havent even finnished creating the world.
Ack 03-15-07, 04:21 PM	Well, it's apparent that at least one player thinks that PCs robbing/scamming other PCs in-game is a Bad Thing (tm). Others may think the same way, just not having spoken up (or found out about it). The probability approaches certainty that when/if this does happen, there will be a large amount of ill-feeling, most aimed toward the culprit, but some also aimed at the GMs who allowed it to happen. This could cause a disproportionate effect within the game. As a co-GM of that game, one of your major duties is to ensure that all players are enjoying the game. If one is causing the rest to not enjoy it, perhaps you could have a word with that player. After all, when a game self-destructs, it is very very hard to revive it.
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 04:29 PM	So far only me, the DMs and 1 other player know about it
Aiwen 03-15-07, 04:31 PM	i agree that this could cause problems, but the player in question is not as likely to go through with this as 'mason' seems to think, i dont think he gets him as well as i do, also, mason has a tendancy to blow things a little out of proportion.
BrainTag 03-15-07, 04:35 PM	You can't take the rogue out of the character, but you can take the character out of the rogue. I've been playing a rogue for a while and I must admit the thought of stealing crossed my mind. The fact that your character is able to pick locks and pickpocket just causes you to look at your fellow PC's and wonder... Not that it's good, but depending on the closeness of the party, the thought to steal stuff from the other members is actually proper role-playing. Of course, when one gets caught, the party should decide on the proper action... probably seriously hurting my beloved rogue. If the party is close, and should be considered a group that realizes they have to depend on one-another, then stealing is just something that does not fit in the game and should not be allowed by the DM. Then it's out-of-character. If you heard about this out-of-game, you can/should not act on it (at least not when you like proper role-playing). Only as soon as you can notice something is missing you should start setting traps to find the thief. I would just turn this into a mini-adventure, that the DM's have NO input on whatsoever. As soon as you have proof that he's the thief, you can hit him with whatever you see fit. What's the DM going to do when you guys jump on him and turn a friendly walk in the park into an encounter? Done... hit him hard, don't heal him, new character, NEXT! I don't see the problem. BT
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 04:36 PM	i agree that this could cause problems, but the player in question is not as likely to go through with this as 'mason' seems to think, i dont think he gets him as well as i do, also, mason has a tendancy to blow things a little out of proportion. Dude, it isn't hard to quickly get to the treasure and swipe a smal magic item and hide it in your cloke/coat/bag. Dude, I'm pretty sure you on't know him better than me. We are very very very similar It's just I actually try to put a stop to our petty squabbling
Aiwen 03-15-07, 04:41 PM	You can't take the rogue out of the character, but you can take the character out of the rogue. I've been playing a rogue for a while and I must admit the thought of stealing crossed my mind. The fact that your character is able to pick locks and pickpocket just causes you to look at your fellow PC's and wonder... Not that it's good, but depending on the closeness of the party, the thought to steal stuff from the other members is actually proper role-playing. Of course, when one gets caught, the party should decide on the proper action... probably seriously hurting my beloved rogue. If the party is close, and should be considered a group that realizes they have to depend on one-another, then stealing is just something that does not fit in the game and should not be allowed by the DM. Then it's out-of-character. If you heard about this out-of-game, you can/should not act on it (at least not when you like proper role-playing). Only as soon as you can notice something is missing you should start setting traps to find the thief. I would just turn this into a mini-adventure, that the DM's have NO input on whatsoever. As soon as you have proof that he's the thief, you can hit him with whatever you see fit. What's the DM going to do when you guys jump on him and turn a friendly walk in the park into an encounter? Done... hit him hard, don't heal him, new character, NEXT! I don't see the problem. BT Now here's a player that gets it, one of the options i sugested was to become friends with him so he wouldnt want to steal from them, but no he has to moan about it in the forums. I also pointed out that it is proper role play and it should be dealt with in a role playing situation. i also like your idea of me not getting involved. i wouldnt go as far as to kill him though.
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 04:42 PM	You can't take the rogue out of the character, but you can take the character out of the rogue. I've been playing a rogue for a while and I must admit the thought of stealing crossed my mind. The fact that your character is able to pick locks and pickpocket just causes you to look at your fellow PC's and wonder... Not that it's good, but depending on the closeness of the party, the thought to steal stuff from the other members is actually proper role-playing. Of course, when one gets caught, the party should decide on the proper action... probably seriously hurting my beloved rogue. If the party is close, and should be considered a group that realizes they have to depend on one-another, then stealing is just something that does not fit in the game and should not be allowed by the DM. Then it's out-of-character. If you heard about this out-of-game, you can/should not act on it (at least not when you like proper role-playing). Only as soon as you can notice something is missing you should start setting traps to find the thief. I would just turn this into a mini-adventure, that the DM's have NO input on whatsoever. As soon as you have proof that he's the thief, you can hit him with whatever you see fit. What's the DM going to do when you guys jump on him and turn a friendly walk in the park into an encounter? Done... hit him hard, don't heal him, new character, NEXT! I don't see the problem. BT If that's the kind of character his rogue is Thats fine If he's making a rogue that would steal from his party That's not I know I cant do anything until he does it But when/if I catch him I'll just introduce him to my little friend, Mr Fireball now heres a player that gets it, one of the options i sugested was to become friends with him so he wouldnt want to steal from them, but no he has to ***** about it in the forums. i also pointed out that it is proper role play and it should be dealt with in a role playing situation. i also like your idea of me not getting involved. i wouldnt go as far as to kill him though. Maybe if you listened to what I say and not just tell me to stop whining You would know I plan to deal with it in a roleplaying way I would go as far to kill him I have a firey temper and the ability to throw big balls of fire Accidents happan <- See that? Huh? ROLEPLAYING!!! Though I realisse it's harsh But it's the way you made me make my character Not that I'm complaing :D
Ack 03-15-07, 04:46 PM	In my experience, one of the hardest things in a game is to get one character to accept another as a friend, if he isn't already inclined to do so. You can pull him out of a deathtrap, bind his wounds, shout him drinks at the local bar, split your last trail rations with him ... and some players I know would go, "Meh, you should be doing that anyway," and proceed to rifle through your pack anyway, as soon as he got the opportunity.
Aiwen 03-15-07, 04:49 PM	I would go as far to kill him I have a firey temper and the ability to throw big balls of fire Accidents happan <- See that? Huh? ROLEPLAYING!!! Though I realisse it's harsh But it's the way you made me make my character Not that I'm complaing :D i dont mean to burst your bubble, but you can barly cast hello
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 04:50 PM	I'll make an effort to befriend him but don't expect to go easy on him if he screws me over i dont mean to burst your bubble, but you can barly cast hello Don't be a smartarse because you didn't get your way in persuading me to be a Wizard
Aiwen 03-15-07, 05:03 PM	I'll make an effort to befriend him but don't expect to go easy on him if he screws me over Don't be a smartarse because you didn't get your way in persuading me to be a Wizard i only sugested that cos it would help you alot, and alot of people on here have sugested the same thing, you would be more powerful and you want to concentrate on attack spells you have 13 charisma and you have a good intilegence score you would make an exelant wizard, even planning your spells wouldn't be a problem cos you know that you want attack spells, you have it better than most, and the feats would help you improve you fire spells
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 05:06 PM	i only sugested that cos it would help you alot, and alot of people on here have sugested the same thing, you would be more powerful and you want to concentrate on attack spells you have 13 charisma and you have a good intilegence score you would make an exelant wizard, even planning your spells wouldn't be a problem cos you know that you want attack spells, you have it better than most, and the feats would help you improve you fire spells Other thread
TimelordSimone 03-15-07, 05:08 PM	Okay. Apparently my fellow coDM and my players cannot behave like responsible adults. And have to resort to slagging each other off on these forums. Sigh... Anyway. This campaign is nowhere near starting. I mean seriously. We haven't even finished the Pantheon yet. It's a long way off. It will be set in a thieves guild. Nobody expects people in a theives guild to be entirely trustworthy. Hence, it would be very difficult to steal a lot. Because (unless the characters were stupid) they would be keeping an eye on each other. It's common sense. Theivery would be expected. Plus, it's not as if the rest of the group are going to be noble, virtous, and completely opposed to theivery. They are theiving things to. Just not from each other. A little thing here or there would be copeable with. And eventually he would be found out, or would realise that he needed the help of the other characters, and would become more trustworthy. I never said I didn't care. I didn't even say I wouldn't deal with it. But, I'm not going to deal with it before it happens. I don't know what scale the theiving will be on. If it gets out of hand, I'll deal with it. The superiors in the guild would want them to work as a group. I hope that we will not have to resort to forcibly ejecting people from the house. Or killing characters. Or whatever. I hope the rest of my group can manage to behave like responsible adults. I realize the destruction that can be caused by characters fighting. It once took an entire session to walk out of the forest. It was painful. (In my defence, it was my first campaign, I now realize that I should have intervened.) Anyway, I realize that my points have been divided incredibly poorly. But I hope that some of you out there have faith in my ability as a DM. Beacuse apparently Mason doesn't...
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 05:17 PM	Okay. Apparently my fellow coDM and my players cannot behave like responsible adults. And have to resort to slagging each other off on these forums. Sigh... Anyway. This campaign is nowhere near starting. I mean seriously. We haven't even finished the Pantheon yet. It's a long way off. It will be set in a thieves guild. Nobody expects people in a theives guild to be entirely trustworthy. Hence, it would be very difficult to steal a lot. Because (unless the characters were stupid) they would be keeping an eye on each other. It's common sense. Theivery would be expected. Plus, it's not as if the rest of the group are going to be noble, virtous, and completely opposed to theivery. They are theiving things to. Just not from each other. A little thing here or there would be copeable with. And eventually he would be found out, or would realise that he needed the help of the other characters, and would become more trustworthy. I never said I didn't care. I didn't even say I wouldn't deal with it. But, I'm not going to deal with it before it happens. I don't know what scale the theiving will be on. If it gets out of hand, I'll deal with it. The superiors in the guild would want them to work as a group. I hope that we will not have to resort to forcibly ejecting people from the house. Or killing characters. Or whatever. I hope the rest of my group can manage to behave like responsible adults. I realize the destruction that can be caused by characters fighting. It once took an entire session to walk out of the forest. It was painful. (In my defence, it was my first campaign, I now realize that I should have intervened.) Anyway, I realize that my points have been divided incredibly poorly. Beacuse apparently Mason doesn't... Firstly, you've contradicted alot of the things you said before so how can you expect me to agree with what you just said until now. The forest thing I mentioned but you still said that I was wrong But I hope that some of you out there have faith in my ability as a DM. Don't guilt trip me, I only mentioned it because I was concerned it could cause the campaign to die, like all the others. I even told you that. I only even started this thread because you told me to sort it out myself, and I wasn't sure how to go about it.
CBeyond 03-15-07, 05:20 PM	I also pointed out that it is proper role play and it should be dealt with in a role playing situation. i also like your idea of me not getting involved. When your players become angry at each other or at you, when they leave the group, and your game grinds to a halt, at least you can feel proud that you didn't get involved.
Ack 03-15-07, 05:23 PM	Okay; just as point one. Mason doesn't have to play a Wizard if he doesn't want to. It's his character. I can't stress this enough. Let me say that again. If the guy doesn't want to play a Wizard, it's not up to you to pressure him into playing a Wizard! Point two: I would be glad to hear about a potential problem like this ahead of time. As I said before, this topic seems to be causing a lot of bad feelings even before it happens - so perhaps you could solve it before it happens? And Mason, you seem to have the green light to set up all the precautions you want or need to make sure no-one steals from you; everyone is untrustworthy, after all. :D
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 05:31 PM	And Mason, you seem to have the green light to set up all the precautions you want or need to make sure no-one steals from you; everyone is untrustworthy, after all. :D I decided to take Arcane Mark and Detect magic I'll mark my stuff thats valuable I guess I could put ranks in Trap Making :D
TimelordSimone 03-15-07, 05:51 PM	Firstly, you've contradicted alot of the things you said before so how can you expect me to agree with what you just said until now. Care to go into a tad more detail..? I'm trying my hardest to sort this out in a responsible manner. Now I'm even getting moaned out by people here I don't even know...
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 06:06 PM	Care to go into a tad more detail..? I'm trying my hardest to sort this out in a responsible manner. Now I'm even getting moaned out by people here I don't even know... The not caring was Aiwen My bad You did tell me that you didn't inten to do anything because you didn't want us relying on you. I misinterprated what you said about the "boss's" But you did say they had better things to do than watch first levels Everyone, don't yell at him. Yell at the Rogue
TimelordSimone 03-15-07, 06:18 PM	The not caring was Aiwen My bad You did tell me that you didn't inten to do anything because you didn't want us relying on you. I misinterprated what you said about the "boss's" But you did say they had better things to do than watch first levels Everyone, don't yell at him. Yell at the Rogue I believe I said that I wouldn't tell you that I would intervene, as that would cause your character to do nothing about it. Which would be a tad metagaming. "Oh, I won't try to stop this, because the almighty DM will solve everything." If it gets out of hand (which I don't believe it will) then of course I will intervene. I'm not incompetent. But I fail to see how a gold piece here or there is worth this much hassle, months before it even happens. And if he does manage to squirrel away something significant, he'll get found out won't he? I don't see how he thinks he'll get away with stealing stuff while you sleep. Unless he puts it back again before you wake up. That is the only way nobody would notice. And is a tad selfdefeating. Sigh... DMing is hard work... I'm getting tired of this campaign before it's even started... Also, I fail to see how that one point equalled me contradicting a lot of things I'd said before. Also, quote from the rogue himself: "i would only steal little bits here and there" It doesn't seem to me like it should be this big a deal...
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 06:36 PM	I believe I said that I wouldn't tell you that I would intervene, as that would cause your character to do nothing about it. Which would be a tad metagaming. "Oh, I won't try to stop this, because the almighty DM will solve everything." If it gets out of hand (which I don't believe it will) then of course I will intervene. I'm not incompetent. But I fail to see how a gold piece here or there is worth this much hassle, months before it even happens. And if he does manage to squirrel away something significant, he'll get found out won't he? That's not actually what you said. But you make a good point I'm sorry, I'll try to have faith in you more often I don't see how he thinks he'll get away with stealing stuff while you sleep. Unless he puts it back again before you wake up. That is the only way nobody would notice. And is a tad selfdefeating. Sigh... DMing is hard work... I'm getting tired of this campaign before it's even started... Also, I fail to see how that one point equalled me contradicting a lot of things I'd said before. Also, quote from the rogue himself: "i would only steal little bits here and there" It doesn't seem to me like it should be this big a deal... Firstly: Haha, it's is him after all Secondly:Yes, it is Thirdly: because thats all you sai before Fourthly: I also quote the rogue "Hey Joe. Is it possible to make Magic Items effect other people.....so I can put them all to sleep after we've finished a fight. Then I'll steal all there stuff *Does that little action he does for everything ie. Punching, swing swords, picking pockets*" I should also point out that Joe(DM2) wasn't exactly against it. heres a quote earlier before "Why do you think Aiwen and Paul always split the treasure" You seem to be under the impression I'm getting worked up over a few coins When I'm actually getting worked up about a scheme he openly admitted to me and Joe You know what he's like, he'll steal my stuff more.
Aiwen 03-15-07, 06:44 PM	Sigh... DMing is hard work... I'm getting tired of this campaign before it's even started... Now look whats happend, we have had the idea of the guild for a very long time, and now all this comotion, cause by merdoc, has boken the spirit of things, i for one would love to continue with the campaign, but if simone has been worn down by all this bickering then it may not happen. All this fuss over a few gold pieces, shame on you all.
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 06:53 PM	Now look whats happend, we have had the idea of the guild for a very long time, and now all this comotion, cause by merdoc, has boken the spirit of things, i for one would love to continue with the campaign, but if simone has been worn down by all this bickering then it may not happen. All this fuss over a few gold pieces, shame on you all. Firstly it's spelt Murdoc Secondly, you know my name. Use it. That's what it's there for. Thirdly, I made a mistake and have admited I have, so I'll go easier on him Forthly, read what's been said after so you know wether you saying something someone else has Fifthly, HIS NAME IS SIMON!!! and in case you didn't know, yours is Joe Noone here is gonna have CIA contacts that can track you down by name to kill you.
TimelordSimone 03-15-07, 07:14 PM	Wow... It's a good job this hasn't descended back into those two slagging each other off again... That would be immature... :D Yes my name is Simon. Lots of people call me Simone. 'Why do think Paul and Aiwen always split the treasure?' was more than likely a light hearted comment. As it happens, I don't think they ever split the treasure. I don't think that he actually intends to put you all to sleep and steal all your stuff. It would be self defeating, as he would then have to flee the group. The reason Joe didn't seem too against it is probably because he probably took it in the light hearted manner it was probably intended. And, again I say, If it gets out of hand I will intervene. I fail to see how there is still an issue here. As far as I can tell it's been sorted out. I'm probably being dense though.
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 07:26 PM	Wow... It's a good job this hasn't descended back into those two slagging each other off again... That would be immature... :D Yes my name is Simon. Lots of people call me Simone. 'Why do think Paul and Aiwen always split the treasure?' was more than likely a light hearted comment. As it happens, I don't think they ever split the treasure. I don't think that he actually intends to put you all to sleep and steal all your stuff. It would be self defeating, as he would then have to flee the group. The reason Joe didn't seem too against it is probably because he probably took it in the light hearted manner it was probably intended. And, again I say, If it gets out of hand I will intervene. I fail to see how there is still an issue here. As far as I can tell it's been sorted out. I'm probably being dense though. Yeah you probably are:D Lester does intend to steal our stuff. I'm not saying he'll succeed I also think the lot of you think he's dumber than he actually is Okay this is easier to say in a geeky way His Int score is about 10 maybe higher It's just his Wis score is about 5-6 which means He can get good ideas, he just goes about them the wrong way. But he could pull it off with everyone underestimatinng him. Yeah this is pretty much sorted out But a few things needed to be stated
danielinthewolvesden 03-15-07, 08:26 PM	I also pointed out that it is proper role play and it should be dealt with in a role playing situation. i. No, it is not "proper role play". Let me make this very clear- it is the PLAYER who has made the decision to make a disruptive PC. I have DMed for over 30 years, and I can assure you it's not only bad role playing but it can also lead to a group dissolving and friendships lost. You are the DM, stopping disruptive behavior is one of your jobs.
twad 03-15-07, 11:09 PM	keep a watch of at least two people. Advise your team mates that you sleep with a weapon at the ready in case of thieves. State you kill thieves. If he tries to rob you kill him, state you thought someone disguised himself as you as no friend would rob you. problem solved.. "...as no friend would rob you" Man, wow, so simple and yet so deep. i love it.
FrostWolf 03-15-07, 11:33 PM	He isn't someone you can just talk to, and one of the Co-DMs doesn't think its a bad thing. He actually only plans to scam us to get more treasure than the rest of us. But isn't that still unbalancing to the game? Then scam him back. The cleric charges him for healing, the tank takes protection money, the caster takes a "I won't blow you the fluff up and animate your corpse so it filates a horse for all eternity" bribe every now and then. Honestly, if he wants all that treasure, make it cost him for every little thing the party would normaly do for him. eventualy, hell have to steal to pay you, get cought, and OOPSE! guess he didn't pay yous guys to break him out. ohh well. wait 30 years or regen.
ragoftag 03-15-07, 11:56 PM	Laugh and say "Sauce for the goose...". When the next opportunity appears, off his character. Stop chipping in for the pizza. Repeat the kill, with a misjudged fireball. Don't give him a ride home. Repeat the kill in every game, but with variety. Forget to tell him where the next game is to be played.When he whines, laugh. And coup d'gras his character at the next opportunity. Do not play in games he GMs. And refuse to heal him next fight. Make sure that one and all know the whys and wherefores, and lock his character in the room with a cloud of Stirges. Have the other players join in. If he kills 5 other players' characters, each gets a kill in return. This may seem harsh, but he should get the idea, eventually. Then kill his character again. Anyone who abuses the trust of his fellow gamers is not to be tolerated. Personally, I get to game 2-4 times a month at best, and do not have enough time left in this life to play with spoilsports. I wouldn't if I were an elf with an easy dozen centuries to go. Oh, and tap him with a poisoned potion. 'How would you character know...?" is followed with: "Doesn't, just following you magnificent lead!" And sucker punch him.
navar100 03-16-07, 02:04 AM	I just heard it from the Horses mouth, that one of the Rogues is actually planning to put us all to sleep so he can steal our valubles. What should be done about this kind of behaviour. It'll only make the other players angry and ruin our fun. 1) Demand the player not do it. 2) If 1) fails, tell the DM not to let him do it. 3) If 2) fails, in character have the party break up. That player's character is now an enemy NPC. You will not associate with him. 4) If 3) fails, i.e. even when that player's next character will carry out the threat only this time not even tell you beforehand, leave the goup. Seriously. I've tired of this stupid behavior long ago. These are the same players who don't inform the rest of the party of needing to know information they learned on their own because they separated from the group and are thus now "superior" because they Know Something the rest of the party does not know. I refuse to play with such people. They love separating from the party to search for treasure. 5 years ago one such player joined my playing group. We were an efficient, friendly, cooperative party before she joined in. My character ignored her. Playing a cleric, only roleplaying faith to overcome metagame loathing had me even bother healing her character, but she was always last. In character I didn't like her character either and frankly I didn't care if metagame thinking was polluting that thought. The rest of the party weren't so friendly with her either. The player "decided" D&D was not for her and left after two game sessions, preferring Vampire. No one was sorry to see her go.
Ack 03-16-07, 02:54 AM	I'd also go by the concept of "the character would not simply be doing this out of the blue; he's probably done it with every party he's ever travelled with" so the PCs would have heard rumours. Act on them. Alarm your gear. Never let him stand watch alone. Count your gold, and let him see you doing it, so he knows that you are aware exactly how much you have. Buy a watchdog; tease it with bits of his clothing. In short, let the player know in every way possible that such behaviour is beyond the pale. He's likely to act in one of two ways: 1) he denies that the idea ever crossed his mind, and tries to act above suspicion. This is good; if he ever does backslide, you have the excuse to hammer him into the ground for going back on his word. 2) he will go ahead with it anyway. Catch him and hammer him into the ground. Sell him to an ogre for a play-toy. If you do all this, and the player still doesn't get the message, then get together with everyone else and tell your GMs, "Lester has to go."
kelvinaw273 03-16-07, 11:37 AM	The golden rule of harmony within the party: Thou chalt not **** over the people who watch your back.
MasonMurdoc 03-16-07, 11:48 AM	The golden rule of harmony within the party: Thou chalt not **** over the people who watch your back. Totally That was said on one of the other pages to :D
FeceMan 03-16-07, 12:15 PM	Don't use fireball. Rogues have evasion. Scorching ray is better. To Timelord: I suffered a campaign like this, once. Party rogue decided she'd be a kleptomaniac. GM finally got sick of all the intraparty *****ing and stopped running the game. I'd advise not letting it happen.
kelvinaw273 03-16-07, 01:16 PM	Totally That was said on one of the other pages to :D I know, but it is so fundamental that it needed saying twice.
MasonMurdoc 03-16-07, 01:52 PM	I know, but it is so fundamental that it needed saying twice. Fair enough I, in fact, agree Don't use fireball. Rogues have evasion. Scorching ray is better. To Timelord: I suffered a campaign like this, once. Party rogue decided she'd be a kleptomaniac. GM finally got sick of all the intraparty *****ing and stopped running the game. I'd advise not letting it happen. I'll keep that in mind :D I'll also have Orb of Fire So I'll get him either way If need be I'll cast fly on myself and drop him from up high Although I'm Chaotic Good so I doubt I' go that far
BrainTag 03-16-07, 01:55 PM	Wow... seems like everyone in Murdoc's party has now joined this thread? Makes interesting reading... You all know what might be happening, once there is clear proof of the presence of weapons on mass destruction, act on it... ;) Let history run its course. Get on with the game, enjoy yourself, if mr. or mrs. Rogue still wants to go ahead and steal from the party, fine, it's clear what might happen to his/her character. *grabs popcorn and watches plot develop* BT
danielinthewolvesden 03-16-07, 01:56 PM	I'd also go by the concept of "the character would not simply be doing this out of the blue; he's probably done it with every party he's ever travelled with" so the PCs would have heard rumours. Act on them. Alarm your gear. Never let him stand watch alone. Count your gold, and let him see you doing it, so he knows that you are aware exactly how much you have. Buy a watchdog; tease it with bits of his clothing. " Why bother? Just say "Thanks for applying to adventure with us, but we do not like your looks. Sorry." Walk away.:P