Bad night=Bad Fun [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bad night=Bad Fun [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CaptainHurricane
07-02-06, 05:34 PM Whats up everyone?

So last night we're playing our campaign, which consists of us basically fighting against hell. It is an awesome campaign and we're having a lot of fun aside from the fact we have had what I'd like to call "a complete meltdown".

To start the story we've been on a warship trying to chase after some other "evil" warships in the water. After one long night of not getting anything done/getting one of our boats destroyed and two of theirs completely obliterated, we came together and finally took one for ourselves. Taking this ship was no easy task because of a problem within the party.

We have me: A Cleric 8/ Church inquisitor 2, a Mind Taking Wizard 10, a good paladin 10, a grappler class found on here 9, and a Rouge 6/Fighter 2.

So we start off making our way to this ship after the wizard had cast flight on most of us except the rouge/fighter and the grappler. They jumped, and the grappler made it, but our "great" rouge/fighter slides off the side of this metal plated ship into the water. We've been having problems with this character/PC because his fighter rouge just won't play like a team player. This campaign revloves around us working as some sort of a team to fight evil. He wants to play as if it were just him fighting everything and basically trying to be better than everyone else.

That be great if he was soloing alone, but the team needs a good rouge rather than this super...I have no idea how to even explain it. It makes zero sense on his battle plan pouring all of his points into bluff when he can RARELY ever get the chance to bluff someone. We've all been saying he needs to rely on flanking with our paladin and grappler, and occasionally me, but he won't listen to us. So we get screwed over on all of our necessary rouge checks IE search, disable device, and etc. He also has selective hearing and misses details that are SO important to some parts of the game that we end up taking 30 minutes to sort something out.

Later in the story after we took the last ship by storm we found a chest. This was a dangerous chest, and after the rouge searched 3 times he still found no traps. I being the smart cleric, and knowing my DM's style I decided to prepare the find traps spell. Good thing too because I found 2 MM traps and a FoD trap. We sat there thinking the best way around this, and I mean we're supposed to have someone that can disable that...or at least almost disable it. So basically the rouge/fighter flubs his rolls (not like it mattered THAT much) and drops him like a rock. (GOOD TREASURE :D).

So then the big breakdown happens and personal issues come into the play when we start talking about the after life in DnD. Everyone left...well this morning a little :eek: :confused:
The DM and the rouge/fighter got into it, and it was really ugly seeing a good friend rip into another good friend.

So what can we do? As a group we'd like to have him play, but if he's going to be like this it really isn't cool.

Basically it boils down to a player who, takes too much time/interjects and argues about everything/has a character who doesn't fit/no backstory to RP from/and just an all around misunderstanding of how to play dnd seriously, but at the same time have fun with it.
Voldar_Mecorthio
07-02-06, 06:53 PM That player (by the way, it's spelled R-O-G-U-E, not R-O-U-G-E.) is either operating under the delusion that D&D is a game to be "won", so he's trying to win, or he's insecure and trying to make up for his real life shortcomings by having no shortcomings in his character. If he is trying to "win" D&D, I recomend educating him on how this is not a game of winners and loosers. If he feels insecure I recomend helping him, if just by talking to him.

He could also just not like teamwork, and if so then D&D is not the game for him. I recomend video games like Diablo 2, Halo 2, Baulders Gate, or Neverwinter Nights.
CaptainHurricane
07-02-06, 07:09 PM Thanks for pointing that out. I forgot that was how that was spelled.

Anyway he does play a lot of those video games so I believe they have transferred into our gameplay. Its just the sheer fact that, you'd tend to think, you'd drop your personal issues at the door to play DnD and not bring them into gameplay. It really took a toll on all of us and we're not sure how to continue.

We've tried to teach him before, but many times we have tried to help him and his character out. His stubborness really doesn't help our gameplay. A lot of us bend and try to help each other out when we can. Even out of game with characters we discuss what would help the group overall because this is a "good" mission.

I myself don't like to oust people, but he has apologized to the DM so he may be playing again. We can only hope that he has learned something from this, and if not he will not continue to play with our group.

We'll just have to see how it plays out next time.
Reversefigure4
07-02-06, 07:22 PM Keep in mind that Rogues don't have to be sneaky trapbreakers. They can be sneaks, diplomats, dirty fighters, precision swordsman, physical acrobats, etc, etc. You can build a perfectly good rogue without a single point in Disable Device, Search, or Open Lock.

It looks to me like he's going for a precision fighter rather than a trapbreaker (his bluff will be high for using feint and improved feint.) Nothing wrong with that. Of course, if he's introducing himself as a trapbreaker and telling people that's what he does well, it's a different story. But if you simply assuming playing a rogue = trapbreaker, that was your bad, not his.

Also keep in mind: Bad rolls screw everyone up. Bad luck happens. And remember that his character is two levels lower than yours, so he will be less competent than you.

Work around it. Have the wizard throw a cross class point or two into Disable Device, and buy some masterwork thieves tools. With his doubtlessly high INT, you should have a decent score. The cleric finds traps, the wizard disables them.
Voldar_Mecorthio
07-02-06, 07:40 PM It seems to me that the problem isn't that the rogue's player isn't playing an archetype, its that he's monopolizing the game by trying to do everything single handedly.
CaptainHurricane
07-02-06, 08:22 PM Yeah, we've been talking about this a little bit, mostly early this morning, about what you just said Voldar. Its a problem that isn't easily solved. We're trying to figure out a good way to mold our party strategy for what he likes to do.

Now we don't have a problem with him and his wanting to be a more offensive rogue rather than the trap checker. Its just that his style is useless in a lot of the conflicts we've had. Obviously we're trying to use our tactics to enable his sneak attacks, its just that from the start he was using a bow. Thats fine, but it got to the point where the enemies were not focused on him so his bluff from 30ft wouldn't allow him to get the sneak attack.

He changed to a rapier and that helped a lot with the flanking. Now with the flanking he doesn't have to use his bluff to feint as much. This was so he could focus on something else other than pure damage because we already have enough of that. Plenty of damage to go around, but if he were to stay the flanking kind of rogue we'd have a lot easier of a time.

Not like time is a big deal to my group of people because we can play for very long periods, but we like to get things done.

It probably is an our bad for thinking that a rogue can't do anything else other than their stealth/trap/treasure work. We just need someone that can do the searching and we can all take 20's to search, but once again the time thing in game gets bothersome. Most of our dungeons are on timers so taking a 20 on a search check of a big room could mean the difference between getting a lot of treasure or getting nothing.

I guess we need to rethink our entire strategy in game.

Hopefully we'll get this done soon so the game can run a lot smoother.
Cifer
07-02-06, 09:09 PM Thats fine, but it got to the point where the enemies were not focused on him so his bluff from 30ft wouldn't allow him to get the sneak attack.
He didn't get a sneak attack because the enemies were not focused on him? Now that's strange...
Kapalen
07-02-06, 09:30 PM He didn't get a sneak attack because the enemies were not focused on him? Now that's strange...

You gotta threaten to feint.
CaptainHurricane
07-02-06, 09:37 PM ^^^What he said. Basically you can be aware of someone's being there, yet not be distracted unless his sight is directly on you. Therefore in a large scale battle unless he has taken some sort of action to call the attention of an enemy feint will be useless.

Nevertheless we're down one person now. We have reason to believe he has dropped from the game. :rolleyes:
IU_Judoka
07-02-06, 09:37 PM As the DM in this campaign heres my take on it...

The biggest problem seems to be that the rogue tends to want to play every character. He interjects his opinions on all the other characters durring their actions. It basically boils down to him telling all of the other party members what to do with their turns and how to use their characters. This, of course, causes tension between the party and it has to find a way to vent out... Unfortunately this was on me and my own religious beliefs (which were attacked and blamed for the death of his character). In short it was uncalled for and completely disrespectful in a game that requires the characters to respect the DM and visa versa.
bansheeman
07-02-06, 10:46 PM If he apologized then there is hope, many people who apologize deserve to be given a second chance. Just tell him that video games are different than d&d and he doesnt have to win. Even giving him a solo mission might be good just to work it out of his system, but then it could get worse.
DarkNick
07-03-06, 04:54 PM As the DM in this campaign heres my take on it...

The biggest problem seems to be that the rogue tends to want to play every character. He interjects his opinions on all the other characters durring their actions. It basically boils down to him telling all of the other party members what to do with their turns and how to use their characters. This, of course, causes tension between the party and it has to find a way to vent out... Unfortunately this was on me and my own religious beliefs (which were attacked and blamed for the death of his character). In short it was uncalled for and completely disrespectful in a game that requires the characters to respect the DM and visa versa.

Sounds like it is not working out and I sympathise. Maybe you could stick it out - but it is likely that there will be even more trouble and it will likely spill into your personal life anyway. For the sake of everyone it might be best to ask him to leave the group. You have tried to reason with him, the rest of the players are not having fun, he just does not get the game. Sounds like something needs to change. On a personal side do you want to keep playing with someone that attacked you and your religion?
IU_Judoka
07-03-06, 10:03 PM Sounds like it is not working out and I sympathise. Maybe you could stick it out - but it is likely that there will be even more trouble and it will likely spill into your personal life anyway. For the sake of everyone it might be best to ask him to leave the group. You have tried to reason with him, the rest of the players are not having fun, he just does not get the game. Sounds like something needs to change. On a personal side do you want to keep playing with someone that attacked you and your religion?

Well there is clearly something deeper there, and im willing to give him another chance... although one more bs comment like that and ill have him removed... Not really surew how to tell him though, and the otehr memebers are certainly upset with him.
Solik
07-04-06, 03:15 AM Keep gaming with this guy and you'll lose the friend. Game without him, keep the friendship.
towerwrath
07-04-06, 04:56 AM It sounde to me like this guy crossed the line, ans has done so repetedly. It also sounds like the rest of the group is just as fed up as you two are. I had a player like this once and trust me it only gets worse, kick him before he destroys the group.
CaptainHurricane
07-04-06, 03:09 PM I have a feeling he may leave on his own. Which is fine by us because we're all pretty good friends and don't need a game to ruin things between all of us.

Although DnD isn't a board game it reminds me of something like it. I was trying to explain my emphasis on serious fun. Where you have to be serious enough to play a board game by its rules for it to be fun. Sure you can change them around a bit, but not to an extreme where it ruins the entire game.

Same way in DnD. You can't really play DnD and just dink around. You have to come to the game with some sort of serious attitude like you want to sit down and play the game.

Our friend says he plays to have fun, but obviously doesn't take it serious enough to understand why we have so much fun playing. Once again this is where the line between video game RPGs and DnD games draw the line.

You can play a video game just for fun and not be serious about it.
IU_Judoka
07-04-06, 03:31 PM In case of another outburst on our rogues part, what I am looking for is a tactful way to tell him that the group has had enough of his disrespect and to basically pack up and go home.

That aside;

I wonder if the party should replace the rogue? The PC who wants to replace the rogue is a paladin. (If that happens we lose the paladin, then we'd be sans fighter and still just as worse off.)

Make the rogue a NPC? Might work but as DM I dont want to control him or give the PCs another person to control as such.

Taper the campaign away from situations where a rogue will be needed? This, I feel, goes away from how DnD should work but it might have to suffice until something is worked out.

What I am trying to explain is that the rogue is a fairly important member of the party and allows the other members to have other spells prepared or skills assigned and can be helpful in combat and scouting out an area...

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)
DarkNick
07-04-06, 04:00 PM In case of another outburst on our rogues part, what I am looking for is a tactful way to tell him that the group has had enough of his disrespect and to basically pack up and go home.

That aside;

I wonder if the party should replace the rogue? The PC who wants to replace the rogue is a paladin. (If that happens we lose the paladin, then we'd be sans fighter and still just as worse off.)

Make the rogue a NPC? Might work but as DM I dont want to control him or give the PCs another person to control as such.

Taper the campaign away from situations where a rogue will be needed? This, I feel, goes away from how DnD should work but it might have to suffice until something is worked out.

What I am trying to explain is that the rogue is a fairly important member of the party and allows the other members to have other spells prepared or skills assigned and can be helpful in combat and scouting out an area...

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)

To be tactful you might not want to do it in front of the rest of the group. If the outburst happens again I would make an excuse to stop that game - like you are really tired, headache, not well. Let everyone go home, cool off. Then give that player a phone call. It would be less confrontational. Gives you a bit more time to think about what you want to say. Perhaps you can talk to all your other players individually first and ask them for their opinion. That way they don't get any surprises and are hopefully on your side.

Tell him that you don't want to fight anymore, that you value the friendship and you think playing together is not helping you guys get along. It is causing you to fight about things you should not be fighting about, and say things you probably both regret. Phrase it in that way so you are not directly attacking what he said to disrespect you. On his side of it he probably feels justified and this way he won't get all defensive. Suggest that you both should not play together anymore because your playing styles are clashing and that you don't think it is working out, get his opinion. Hopfully it will end up a mutual agreement for him to leave the game.

A NPC rogue sounds good. I would have something like a female halfling girl that everyone can get attached to and look after. Aww she is so cute! Also no-one will expect her to get in a fight. Handy for traps and locks, but apart from that she can just keep out of the way. Also gives you someone you can use as backup if the party look like they are in trouble.

I like having an NPC in the party. I ran one campaign with two players and I had a NPC halfling cleric of gond that used a blunderbus (party was short on healing - so I gave them a short healer). He was lazy and a drunkard so he did not help much, except a bit of healing and the odd shot. In the end it turned out he was working for the bad guys. It was a classic switch at the very end of the campaign fighting the main protagonist. The party thought they had it sweet, the enemy was on the back foot, they were getting cocky about it - you should have seen the look on the wizards face when the halfling turned around a blew away his familiar.
IU_Judoka
07-04-06, 04:07 PM Thanks DarkNick Were all hoping that he doenst have another episode but its hard to say... especially when his rolls dont go as well as hoped... It seems (and I know that alot of us are guilty of this) that when the rolls are poor, so is the attitude. Albeit not near as bad as another member of the party who will become almost catatonic and will lose all interest in the game and make really bad choices (Ex: forgoing battle plans with plain stupidity. "I leave the circle and attack the guy we are trying to hide from" sort-of-thing)
DarkNick
07-04-06, 06:09 PM Tough crowd.
I have never really had to kick anyone out of a game. The closest I came to it was with a work group that I play with every friday lunchtime for an hour. I found 2 players works well within the time limitations. I had one player that really bugged me - got upset if he rolled bad, swore, jumped up and down, almost has a little cry (we are talking about a 40 year old man). The poor other player got little say. I tended to smooth and modify rules for the sake of speed and gameplay and he hated that.

In the end I told the players that I did not have time for the game anymore - then covertly got a new player and restarted the game without the irritable player knowing. I really could not be bothered dealing with a hissy fit. Fortunately we work in a big building.

I have left a group though. They were great roleplayers but they could also be nasty and tended to pick on other players in character. They used to pick on this one girl who was a little slow - one of those people that don't get the rules. It was a ltitle frustrating but no biggy. The other players picked on her one session till she cried and I thought that was not on. I asked everyone to give her a break and then it all turned to custard, they all got mighty offended. "I've been playing this way for years, you can't tell me to change blah blah!". In the end I left.

Hopefully it all works out for you.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CaptainHurricane 07-02-06, 05:34 PM	Whats up everyone? So last night we're playing our campaign, which consists of us basically fighting against hell. It is an awesome campaign and we're having a lot of fun aside from the fact we have had what I'd like to call "a complete meltdown". To start the story we've been on a warship trying to chase after some other "evil" warships in the water. After one long night of not getting anything done/getting one of our boats destroyed and two of theirs completely obliterated, we came together and finally took one for ourselves. Taking this ship was no easy task because of a problem within the party. We have me: A Cleric 8/ Church inquisitor 2, a Mind Taking Wizard 10, a good paladin 10, a grappler class found on here 9, and a Rouge 6/Fighter 2. So we start off making our way to this ship after the wizard had cast flight on most of us except the rouge/fighter and the grappler. They jumped, and the grappler made it, but our "great" rouge/fighter slides off the side of this metal plated ship into the water. We've been having problems with this character/PC because his fighter rouge just won't play like a team player. This campaign revloves around us working as some sort of a team to fight evil. He wants to play as if it were just him fighting everything and basically trying to be better than everyone else. That be great if he was soloing alone, but the team needs a good rouge rather than this super...I have no idea how to even explain it. It makes zero sense on his battle plan pouring all of his points into bluff when he can RARELY ever get the chance to bluff someone. We've all been saying he needs to rely on flanking with our paladin and grappler, and occasionally me, but he won't listen to us. So we get screwed over on all of our necessary rouge checks IE search, disable device, and etc. He also has selective hearing and misses details that are SO important to some parts of the game that we end up taking 30 minutes to sort something out. Later in the story after we took the last ship by storm we found a chest. This was a dangerous chest, and after the rouge searched 3 times he still found no traps. I being the smart cleric, and knowing my DM's style I decided to prepare the find traps spell. Good thing too because I found 2 MM traps and a FoD trap. We sat there thinking the best way around this, and I mean we're supposed to have someone that can disable that...or at least almost disable it. So basically the rouge/fighter flubs his rolls (not like it mattered THAT much) and drops him like a rock. (GOOD TREASURE :D). So then the big breakdown happens and personal issues come into the play when we start talking about the after life in DnD. Everyone left...well this morning a little :eek: :confused: The DM and the rouge/fighter got into it, and it was really ugly seeing a good friend rip into another good friend. So what can we do? As a group we'd like to have him play, but if he's going to be like this it really isn't cool. Basically it boils down to a player who, takes too much time/interjects and argues about everything/has a character who doesn't fit/no backstory to RP from/and just an all around misunderstanding of how to play dnd seriously, but at the same time have fun with it.
Voldar_Mecorthio 07-02-06, 06:53 PM	That player (by the way, it's spelled R-O-G-U-E, not R-O-U-G-E.) is either operating under the delusion that D&D is a game to be "won", so he's trying to win, or he's insecure and trying to make up for his real life shortcomings by having no shortcomings in his character. If he is trying to "win" D&D, I recomend educating him on how this is not a game of winners and loosers. If he feels insecure I recomend helping him, if just by talking to him. He could also just not like teamwork, and if so then D&D is not the game for him. I recomend video games like Diablo 2, Halo 2, Baulders Gate, or Neverwinter Nights.
CaptainHurricane 07-02-06, 07:09 PM	Thanks for pointing that out. I forgot that was how that was spelled. Anyway he does play a lot of those video games so I believe they have transferred into our gameplay. Its just the sheer fact that, you'd tend to think, you'd drop your personal issues at the door to play DnD and not bring them into gameplay. It really took a toll on all of us and we're not sure how to continue. We've tried to teach him before, but many times we have tried to help him and his character out. His stubborness really doesn't help our gameplay. A lot of us bend and try to help each other out when we can. Even out of game with characters we discuss what would help the group overall because this is a "good" mission. I myself don't like to oust people, but he has apologized to the DM so he may be playing again. We can only hope that he has learned something from this, and if not he will not continue to play with our group. We'll just have to see how it plays out next time.
Reversefigure4 07-02-06, 07:22 PM	Keep in mind that Rogues don't have to be sneaky trapbreakers. They can be sneaks, diplomats, dirty fighters, precision swordsman, physical acrobats, etc, etc. You can build a perfectly good rogue without a single point in Disable Device, Search, or Open Lock. It looks to me like he's going for a precision fighter rather than a trapbreaker (his bluff will be high for using feint and improved feint.) Nothing wrong with that. Of course, if he's introducing himself as a trapbreaker and telling people that's what he does well, it's a different story. But if you simply assuming playing a rogue = trapbreaker, that was your bad, not his. Also keep in mind: Bad rolls screw everyone up. Bad luck happens. And remember that his character is two levels lower than yours, so he will be less competent than you. Work around it. Have the wizard throw a cross class point or two into Disable Device, and buy some masterwork thieves tools. With his doubtlessly high INT, you should have a decent score. The cleric finds traps, the wizard disables them.
Voldar_Mecorthio 07-02-06, 07:40 PM	It seems to me that the problem isn't that the rogue's player isn't playing an archetype, its that he's monopolizing the game by trying to do everything single handedly.
CaptainHurricane 07-02-06, 08:22 PM	Yeah, we've been talking about this a little bit, mostly early this morning, about what you just said Voldar. Its a problem that isn't easily solved. We're trying to figure out a good way to mold our party strategy for what he likes to do. Now we don't have a problem with him and his wanting to be a more offensive rogue rather than the trap checker. Its just that his style is useless in a lot of the conflicts we've had. Obviously we're trying to use our tactics to enable his sneak attacks, its just that from the start he was using a bow. Thats fine, but it got to the point where the enemies were not focused on him so his bluff from 30ft wouldn't allow him to get the sneak attack. He changed to a rapier and that helped a lot with the flanking. Now with the flanking he doesn't have to use his bluff to feint as much. This was so he could focus on something else other than pure damage because we already have enough of that. Plenty of damage to go around, but if he were to stay the flanking kind of rogue we'd have a lot easier of a time. Not like time is a big deal to my group of people because we can play for very long periods, but we like to get things done. It probably is an our bad for thinking that a rogue can't do anything else other than their stealth/trap/treasure work. We just need someone that can do the searching and we can all take 20's to search, but once again the time thing in game gets bothersome. Most of our dungeons are on timers so taking a 20 on a search check of a big room could mean the difference between getting a lot of treasure or getting nothing. I guess we need to rethink our entire strategy in game. Hopefully we'll get this done soon so the game can run a lot smoother.
Cifer 07-02-06, 09:09 PM	Thats fine, but it got to the point where the enemies were not focused on him so his bluff from 30ft wouldn't allow him to get the sneak attack. He didn't get a sneak attack because the enemies were not focused on him? Now that's strange...
Kapalen 07-02-06, 09:30 PM	He didn't get a sneak attack because the enemies were not focused on him? Now that's strange... You gotta threaten to feint.
CaptainHurricane 07-02-06, 09:37 PM	^^^What he said. Basically you can be aware of someone's being there, yet not be distracted unless his sight is directly on you. Therefore in a large scale battle unless he has taken some sort of action to call the attention of an enemy feint will be useless. Nevertheless we're down one person now. We have reason to believe he has dropped from the game. :rolleyes:
IU_Judoka 07-02-06, 09:37 PM	As the DM in this campaign heres my take on it... The biggest problem seems to be that the rogue tends to want to play every character. He interjects his opinions on all the other characters durring their actions. It basically boils down to him telling all of the other party members what to do with their turns and how to use their characters. This, of course, causes tension between the party and it has to find a way to vent out... Unfortunately this was on me and my own religious beliefs (which were attacked and blamed for the death of his character). In short it was uncalled for and completely disrespectful in a game that requires the characters to respect the DM and visa versa.
bansheeman 07-02-06, 10:46 PM	If he apologized then there is hope, many people who apologize deserve to be given a second chance. Just tell him that video games are different than d&d and he doesnt have to win. Even giving him a solo mission might be good just to work it out of his system, but then it could get worse.
DarkNick 07-03-06, 04:54 PM	As the DM in this campaign heres my take on it... The biggest problem seems to be that the rogue tends to want to play every character. He interjects his opinions on all the other characters durring their actions. It basically boils down to him telling all of the other party members what to do with their turns and how to use their characters. This, of course, causes tension between the party and it has to find a way to vent out... Unfortunately this was on me and my own religious beliefs (which were attacked and blamed for the death of his character). In short it was uncalled for and completely disrespectful in a game that requires the characters to respect the DM and visa versa. Sounds like it is not working out and I sympathise. Maybe you could stick it out - but it is likely that there will be even more trouble and it will likely spill into your personal life anyway. For the sake of everyone it might be best to ask him to leave the group. You have tried to reason with him, the rest of the players are not having fun, he just does not get the game. Sounds like something needs to change. On a personal side do you want to keep playing with someone that attacked you and your religion?
IU_Judoka 07-03-06, 10:03 PM	Sounds like it is not working out and I sympathise. Maybe you could stick it out - but it is likely that there will be even more trouble and it will likely spill into your personal life anyway. For the sake of everyone it might be best to ask him to leave the group. You have tried to reason with him, the rest of the players are not having fun, he just does not get the game. Sounds like something needs to change. On a personal side do you want to keep playing with someone that attacked you and your religion? Well there is clearly something deeper there, and im willing to give him another chance... although one more bs comment like that and ill have him removed... Not really surew how to tell him though, and the otehr memebers are certainly upset with him.
Solik 07-04-06, 03:15 AM	Keep gaming with this guy and you'll lose the friend. Game without him, keep the friendship.
towerwrath 07-04-06, 04:56 AM	It sounde to me like this guy crossed the line, ans has done so repetedly. It also sounds like the rest of the group is just as fed up as you two are. I had a player like this once and trust me it only gets worse, kick him before he destroys the group.
CaptainHurricane 07-04-06, 03:09 PM	I have a feeling he may leave on his own. Which is fine by us because we're all pretty good friends and don't need a game to ruin things between all of us. Although DnD isn't a board game it reminds me of something like it. I was trying to explain my emphasis on serious fun. Where you have to be serious enough to play a board game by its rules for it to be fun. Sure you can change them around a bit, but not to an extreme where it ruins the entire game. Same way in DnD. You can't really play DnD and just dink around. You have to come to the game with some sort of serious attitude like you want to sit down and play the game. Our friend says he plays to have fun, but obviously doesn't take it serious enough to understand why we have so much fun playing. Once again this is where the line between video game RPGs and DnD games draw the line. You can play a video game just for fun and not be serious about it.
IU_Judoka 07-04-06, 03:31 PM	In case of another outburst on our rogues part, what I am looking for is a tactful way to tell him that the group has had enough of his disrespect and to basically pack up and go home. That aside; I wonder if the party should replace the rogue? The PC who wants to replace the rogue is a paladin. (If that happens we lose the paladin, then we'd be sans fighter and still just as worse off.) Make the rogue a NPC? Might work but as DM I dont want to control him or give the PCs another person to control as such. Taper the campaign away from situations where a rogue will be needed? This, I feel, goes away from how DnD should work but it might have to suffice until something is worked out. What I am trying to explain is that the rogue is a fairly important member of the party and allows the other members to have other spells prepared or skills assigned and can be helpful in combat and scouting out an area... any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)
DarkNick 07-04-06, 04:00 PM	In case of another outburst on our rogues part, what I am looking for is a tactful way to tell him that the group has had enough of his disrespect and to basically pack up and go home. That aside; I wonder if the party should replace the rogue? The PC who wants to replace the rogue is a paladin. (If that happens we lose the paladin, then we'd be sans fighter and still just as worse off.) Make the rogue a NPC? Might work but as DM I dont want to control him or give the PCs another person to control as such. Taper the campaign away from situations where a rogue will be needed? This, I feel, goes away from how DnD should work but it might have to suffice until something is worked out. What I am trying to explain is that the rogue is a fairly important member of the party and allows the other members to have other spells prepared or skills assigned and can be helpful in combat and scouting out an area... any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :) To be tactful you might not want to do it in front of the rest of the group. If the outburst happens again I would make an excuse to stop that game - like you are really tired, headache, not well. Let everyone go home, cool off. Then give that player a phone call. It would be less confrontational. Gives you a bit more time to think about what you want to say. Perhaps you can talk to all your other players individually first and ask them for their opinion. That way they don't get any surprises and are hopefully on your side. Tell him that you don't want to fight anymore, that you value the friendship and you think playing together is not helping you guys get along. It is causing you to fight about things you should not be fighting about, and say things you probably both regret. Phrase it in that way so you are not directly attacking what he said to disrespect you. On his side of it he probably feels justified and this way he won't get all defensive. Suggest that you both should not play together anymore because your playing styles are clashing and that you don't think it is working out, get his opinion. Hopfully it will end up a mutual agreement for him to leave the game. A NPC rogue sounds good. I would have something like a female halfling girl that everyone can get attached to and look after. Aww she is so cute! Also no-one will expect her to get in a fight. Handy for traps and locks, but apart from that she can just keep out of the way. Also gives you someone you can use as backup if the party look like they are in trouble. I like having an NPC in the party. I ran one campaign with two players and I had a NPC halfling cleric of gond that used a blunderbus (party was short on healing - so I gave them a short healer). He was lazy and a drunkard so he did not help much, except a bit of healing and the odd shot. In the end it turned out he was working for the bad guys. It was a classic switch at the very end of the campaign fighting the main protagonist. The party thought they had it sweet, the enemy was on the back foot, they were getting cocky about it - you should have seen the look on the wizards face when the halfling turned around a blew away his familiar.
IU_Judoka 07-04-06, 04:07 PM	Thanks DarkNick Were all hoping that he doenst have another episode but its hard to say... especially when his rolls dont go as well as hoped... It seems (and I know that alot of us are guilty of this) that when the rolls are poor, so is the attitude. Albeit not near as bad as another member of the party who will become almost catatonic and will lose all interest in the game and make really bad choices (Ex: forgoing battle plans with plain stupidity. "I leave the circle and attack the guy we are trying to hide from" sort-of-thing)
DarkNick 07-04-06, 06:09 PM	Tough crowd. I have never really had to kick anyone out of a game. The closest I came to it was with a work group that I play with every friday lunchtime for an hour. I found 2 players works well within the time limitations. I had one player that really bugged me - got upset if he rolled bad, swore, jumped up and down, almost has a little cry (we are talking about a 40 year old man). The poor other player got little say. I tended to smooth and modify rules for the sake of speed and gameplay and he hated that. In the end I told the players that I did not have time for the game anymore - then covertly got a new player and restarted the game without the irritable player knowing. I really could not be bothered dealing with a hissy fit. Fortunately we work in a big building. I have left a group though. They were great roleplayers but they could also be nasty and tended to pick on other players in character. They used to pick on this one girl who was a little slow - one of those people that don't get the rules. It was a ltitle frustrating but no biggy. The other players picked on her one session till she cried and I thought that was not on. I asked everyone to give her a break and then it all turned to custard, they all got mighty offended. "I've been playing this way for years, you can't tell me to change blah blah!". In the end I left. Hopefully it all works out for you.